10/20/2007 Demo

And when should us brits start checking?!... I know its abit eager but I want new metal!

Robin

Kamus

"Input wise, you get an HDCP compliant DVI port and an analogue D-SUB, and that's it. There's no component video input, no HDMI and not even a USB hub.

Click to expand...

HDMI works just fine with a DVI input using a HDMI->DVI adapter. The same is true for Component with D-SUB. All you have to do is use an adapter.... they are quite common and inexpensive. I recommend www.monoprice.com personally.

BTW: Please stop trolling.

Way to go Kamus! Good man, you are one of the few sensible people. You can criticize something whilst enjoying the good of it. You sift through all the clutter, and find clarity.

You can't be a real troll since you play Gt4 so much. I believe you are an asset to this fansite for not being overly enchanted with what PD dishes out. A fansite like this, of all places, needs the honest balance you offer.

👍

Mykolas

Way to go Kamus! Good man, you are one of the few sensible people. You can criticize something whilst enjoying the good of it. You sift through all the clutter, and find clarity.

You can't be a real troll since you play Gt4 so much. I believe you are an asset to this fansite for not being overly enchanted with what PD dishes out. A fansite like this, of all places, needs the honest balance you offer.

👍

Click to expand...

I disagree. Grossly exaggerating the faults of a demo of a prologue because it doesn't meet your unmanaged expectations is trolling.

Read the reveiws of Jedi 2016, Dave A, Digital Nitrate, me and others for far better criticism (good and bad) of the demo

Digital-Nitrate

HDMI works just fine with a DVI input using a HDMI->DVI adapter. The same is true for Component with D-SUB. All you have to do is use an adapter.... they are quite common and inexpensive. I recommend www.monoprice.com personally.

BTW: Please stop trolling.

Click to expand...

Excuse me? calling me a troll now, i'm quoting the review i linked in my earlier post.
i didn't personally came up with that comment.

So now answering his question is trolling?

Haha, you're hillarious!

By the way, i know of the adapters, and that's where i bought mine, i use a 6 feet DVI cable to connect my PS3 to my projector, but thanks for sharing i guess.

Mykolas

Way to go Kamus! Good man, you are one of the few sensible people. You can criticize something whilst enjoying the good of it. You sift through all the clutter, and find clarity.

You can't be a real troll since you play Gt4 so much. I believe you are an asset to this fansite for not being overly enchanted with what PD dishes out. A fansite like this, of all places, needs the honest balance you offer.

👍

Click to expand...

Thanks, apparently some people now HATE me because i say things that offend them, i'm just trying to point out where i think they are wrong, but then i'm told i should respect other people's opinions even if i know they're wrong.

This isn't a dinner table or anything of the sort where discussing peoples opinions might be considered bad taste to openly discuss something.

I certanly don't have "heated" debates of which i'm acused off at a dinner table, but this is a forum for discussion... so people should get used to seeing discusion taking place.

Earth

I disagree. Grossly exaggerating the faults of a demo of a prologue because it doesn't meet your unmanaged expectations is trolling.

Read the reveiws of Jedi 2016, Dave A, Digital Nitrate, me and others for far better criticism (good and bad) of the demo

Click to expand...

Grossly exaggerating? So, basicly because i'm saying that EPR still has better physics than GT5 i'm exaggerating?

I'm not about to take back that comment, i think it's spot on.

I really still don't understand why people get offended by this.

Kamus

Excuse me? calling me a troll now

Click to expand...

Yes, and you know exactly what I'm referring to, and it had nothing to do with that quote you posted, quit playing dumb and throwing out red herrings to avoid the issues.

i'm quoting the review i linked in my earlier post.
i didn't personally came up with that comment.

Click to expand...

Then why post the misleading quote...especially if you now claim you knew it didn't matter because you can use adapters? What possible reason would you have to post misleading quotes from another source... although it may explain why you post so much misleading info. Unreal...

Haha, you're hillarious!

Click to expand...

And you are... oh never mind, it really doesn't matter. Troll away.

Keep posting all your hyperbolic subjective opinion, keep arguing with everyone that disagrees with you and uses objective facts to prove that you have knowingly posted false, misleading information...

If you are representative of the new membership on GTP, and continue to use these threads to post false information and attack those that point out actual facts that disprove much of what you claim, then by all means, I will be the first to gladly bid farewell.

I don't have the time nor the patience to put up with you type of behavior. 👎

Kamus

Thanks, apparently some people now HATE me because i say things that offend them, i'm just trying to point out where i think they are wrong, but then i'm told i should respect other people's opinions even if i know they're wrong.

Click to expand...

Indeed you should, in time, they will mature. I've only played Enthusia for 60 seconds, it seems to take really long for the cars to turn. Gt4 is crisp and responsive. Everything else you say is right though!

Earth

Read the reveiws of Jedi 2016, Dave A, Digital Nitrate, me and others for far better criticism (good and bad) of the demo

Click to expand...

Any negativity mentioned by anyone is right. But no good can be said of the sound when cars now sound like modified leaf blowers instead of just normal ones, and when the tyres sounds exactly the same when under stress as in Gt4, and in every situation you put the car under, except maybe when you pull the emergency brake.

When you park a car on the straight and they still hit you, it doesn't matter one bit where else the A.I. seemed to have improved.

There can also be no forgiveness when we can't see a dense white cloud of smoke when we spin out.

These are just the simple things, I haven't even played the demo yet, that would cloud my objectivity only a little bit. I still want it no matter what though don't get me wrong.

Digital-Nitrate

Wow... how many ways can one point out the flaws in judging sound quality and realism based on a YouTube video... where is the objectivity in that?!?!

Click to expand...

It really is that pure and simple.

Moreover, the earlier teasers showing some amazing sound is a case in point. Thats all the comparison you need.

I give the benefit of the doubt and guess that PD somehow knows how to push it, and knows what to give just enough of to keep people amazed, since so many are so enchanted on this forum, and that come Prologue or the final version, these things will be ironed out. The problem is that we shouldn't looking forward to such small things, they should be here already. PD is obviously screwing around by leaving some obvious jaggies just to make it look like they improved something.

KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS KAMUS


Kamus you have strong opinions, no doubt.

you have to expect to get what you give.

my own opinion is that your way of reviewing is way too harsh

I can understand people thinking your a troll. I thought so too.

but after talking to you more im starting to think maybe your like the ex-baseball player father who is coaching his son's little league team and is overly cruel to even the slightest mistake from only his own son because he simply expects so much out of him.

father/coach = you
son = GT

does this make sense to you or anyone or does the rabbit hole not really go that deep?

Mykolas

Indeed you should, in time, they will mature. I've only played Enthusia for 60 seconds, it seems to take really long for the cars to turn. Gt4 is crisp and responsive. Everything else you say is right though!

Click to expand...

Oh, there's a reason it takes a long time for the cars to turn.
I'm assuming that like most of us, you probably use a DFP. or a similar size wheel, which is too small compared to a production car's wheel.
Since it's smaller, it takes more movement to make it turn.

you can check out the wheel they sold only in japan for it here:

http://www.konami.jp/gs/game/enthusia/Media/ADSL/movie02.html

All i could find is that old video, but you can see the size of the steering wheel there close to the end of the video.

I gotta say that a big wheel like that wouldn't look pretty in your room. but that's about as realistic size as you can get.

With a wheel like that you wouldn't feel you have to turn a lot.

Digital-Nitrate

Then why post the misleading quote...especially if you now claim you knew it didn't matter because you can use adapters? What possible reason would you have to post misleading quotes from another source... although it may explain why you post so much misleading info. Unreal...

Click to expand...

Missleading quote? what the hell are you talking about?
And why did you even bring up the adapters? did you even see the reason i quoted?
I quoted the full paragraph where they mention there's no way to get around the scaler for 1080p, and that it always scales it to 1200p.
You keep taking my comments out of context and manage to completley miss the point.

And just how is that quote missleading anyway? what it says about the monitor is that it's lacking inputs.
All of a sudden you come marching in that you could always use an adapter...
No kidding... but that's not even the point (at which point was the need of adapters being discussed here? the guy has his ps3 allready running on that monitor so it's obvious he's using either an adapter or a HDMI to DVI cable.), the point was SOLELY the talk about the scaler in that monitor, Which just happened to be mentioned in that paragraph that also talks about the lack of inputs.

Kamus

I'm assuming that like most of us, you probably use a DFP. or a similar size wheel, which is too small compared to a production car's wheel.
Since it's smaller, it takes more movement to make it turn.

Click to expand...

I played with the DS2.
And that doesn't make sense. If the wheel is small that means a given amount of input equals more input in the car of the game. It should balance out in the end.

The video doesn't work for me, I couldn't watch it.

are you guys drifting with the power steering and auto minute steering input thing turned on or of? I do it with power steering on but that's it.

Seeing as most of the demo topics have been done to death (graphical glitches, sound quality etc) I'll just give my impressions of the physics and AI.

Using driving force pro, all assists off, simulation mode.

It's nice to see that you can no longer just mash the brake pedal, chuck the car into the corner an expect it to pull up. Braking performance is much better when the car is pointed straight. There were a couple of times where I dived up the inside at the hairpin - only to touch the grass with the left rear a go spearing off the road.

The transition from under to over-steer is still too quick though. I'm not totally convinced that this is the result of the physics or the fact the DFP seems somewhat 'twitchy' in comparison to GT4. It's more difficult just to keep the car pointed straight. The force feedback is also week and deviod of 'feel'. Perhaps the G25 is better?

The AI is definitely better - even having their own battles forcing each other into mistakes etc. There were a few occasions however where I thought they were too cautions - ie moving over even if I only had the tip of the nose of my car along side. I haven't had any ram the back of my car yet - perhaps some of you are braking too early?

Bumper car collision physics remain. Surely an option to enable ‘proper’ collisions will make the final cut in Prologue?

Certainly improved over GT4 but probably not as much as I would've liked. So I downloaded 'Juiced 2' - That put everything back into perspective.

Mykolas

When you park a car on the straight and they still hit you, it doesn't matter one bit where else the A.I. seemed to have improved.

Click to expand...

Why in the hell would you park a car on a straight? Don't do stupid crap that like to "test" the AI.. just drive. It's under NORMAL circumstances that the AI has improved the most.

And for the record, I did put the AI to that test, and it passed. I stopped in the middle of a slow curve, and the AI tried it's damndest to stay to the inside, but it's only options were to hit me or drive clean off the track. Then I moved my car directly into the racing line, where all fifteen cars were driving. And guess what happened? My car remained untouched, since I actually gave them somewhere else to go.. they all took the outside line through that corner.

Mykolas

I haven't even played the demo yet

Click to expand...

Then what the hell are we even talking for? You're coming up with an opinion based on NOTHING. You are in no position whatsoever to complain about stuff like AI, which quite simply CANNOT be judged without playing it yourself.

Mykolas

The problem is that we shouldn't looking forward to such small things, they should be here already. PD is obviously screwing around by leaving some obvious jaggies just to make it look like they improved something.

Click to expand...

That is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. You clearly have no idea whatsoever of how a game is made. The "little things" are ironed out at the END of production. It's always been that way, for every game in the history of games. And you've obviously never played a demo before in your entire life. I don't think I've ever played a demo that was 100% identical to the final product. Ever. There's always something not quite finished yet.. you know, that whole "work in progress" thing. Missing animations, framerate problems, pop-in, etc. And I have no idiotic delusions that somehow this one should be different than every demo that's come before. To think that somehow the very first public demo of a game, that probably won't be out for a year and a half, should be perfect is just... I don't think I even have a non-insulting word for it.

Mykolas

I played with the DS2.
And that doesn't make sense. If the wheel is small that means a given amount of input equals more input in the car of the game. It should balance out in the end.

The video doesn't work for me, I couldn't watch it.

Click to expand...

hmm, i'm wrong about the wheel size thing come to think of it, if anything it should be the other way around right?

on the other hand a biger wheel would probalby allow you to toss it around with more ease.
About the video, you can just go to the konami EPR website and check it out there if you're still intrested.

This thread is getting very long. But what the heck, without starting a new thread I think this review would go here.

Video is attached to support the review.


Playing GT5 Prologue with the Logitech G25 wheel.

I started out playing the game first by exploring the drifting side of it. Its just something that I enjoy most so it began this way. I'm an avid fan of drifting in games and real life drifting as well. I do so with my car in real life as well. Wanted to give out that background information some before going on.

Playing the game with a 900 degree driving wheel is the ideal way of experiencing GT5. I have not even tried playing with the controller yet, so my review is all based on using the Logitech G25 wheel. I've applied the same techniques here to the game that I would have in real life at the race tracks with my S2000. Granted I take more risk in the video game

After playing this for two days now I feel very good about the physics engine. The developers have done a fantastic job improving on GT4. I can't even play GT4 the same anymore after playing this! I don't want to play GT4 after this!

Serious.

GT4 had good fundamentals, I'm not bashing it, just using it for comparision. I still have love for that game too, but GT5 Prologue Demo has definitely improved on the driving dynamics in regards to braking, tire grip and feel, understeer to oversteer transitions, countersteering and throttle steering control. With only having two days playing time, by playing the game with the Logitech G25 wheel with simulation mode and all driving aids off, I can immediately feel the improved physics. You're punished as you would in real life for powerovering, over correcting and countersteering mistakes. You're punished for coming into a corner too hot and not giving yourself enough braking distance. You will understeer when your front tires don't receive the proper transitions to give it grip. It takes time to get comfortable, I've been playing Gran Turismo with wheels for a long time, so give it time in the game if you think the game has it all wrong, just keep practicing. I feel the game has it right.


Logitech G25 Race Report


Drift


My personal opinion.
The driving physics in the game are the best they have ever been for console games.

wow. breath taking. because a bite of gt5 is in my living room.

ABS off.

It's the only option that remains to be introduced.

TheMoose

Meh, the time zone thing always screws me up!

Click to expand...

Nope, you're right, I was wrong. I'm the one who's screwing up "the time zone" thing




PS: The sun rizes in the east and goes down in the west. Japan, (being an eastern country) hence their flag being white with a red circle in the middle, is always ahead (I hope). So the 24the in Japan is the 23rd in Europe and the States. I knew that, why I said the opposite, I don't know.

just read all the thread!!!!!!!(took me 1hr!) and apart from a few tense discussions from KAMUS and some other dudes, demo seems to look ok.(i dont have PS3 yet so i need this thread).First off disappointed to hear physics arnt all that they could be (not enough clearly defined posts from the hard core sim racers) (except Kamus!!!!) but the rest of the demo appeares ok. I think Earth stated a few posts back that people continue to hold GT5 to the standards below.

They want GT5 to

- equal the graphics they've seen in the trailers
- equal the sound of GTR
- equal the physics of Live for Speed
- equal the damage seen in TOCA
- equal the track quality of PGR4
- equal the AI of Race07
- equal the online feature set of Forza 2

Anything less and GT5 has somehow fell short in their eyes.

My question is why cant we have the best best bits all in one game????? (do i have to buy 6 diffent games on 3 differnt platforms???damn no!) Is it that difficult for PD to deliver the above????? GT will always be critiqued against these and other (my darling beloved EPR) games and anyone who doesnt compare (grossly overexaggerating LOL or not) GT to them just doesnt want to accept that GT just may not be the best sim in the end.I have faith that GT5 will be the best........Ive got to.......unless EPR2 gets made OR LFS start modeling 700+ real life cars......

P.S KAMUS for president!!!!! LOL
P.P.S SCAFF your holding back on your full assessment of GT5 P demo physics!!!! Put me out of my misery as all the EPR physics faults you stated are correct so you obviosly know a thing or 2 about how a car should behave when pushed!

Ah, I guess my impressions belong here:


GT5 Prologue Tokyo Motor Show Demo was released this weekend, and if you bother to set up a Japanese account on your PS3 (there are some instructions online on the interwebs) you can download it and enjoy some 16 car racing on Suzuka in up to 8 cars (there are four available from the start, and 4 more will be made available as the Motor Show progresses).

The biggest unveiling is presented quite nicely in the demo, as you can see in this short clip I made.

Hi Guys

Did any one knows, in what day the Subaru, Lexus and Mazda will be available in demo?

Thanks

David

Kamus

Yeah, i was planning on buying that monitor untill i learned of that same problem. (that basicly the scaler intervenes for 1080p and just scales it to 1200p.)

Click to expand...

I think you're right. Tried on 720p, 572p at 19:6 and the cars are normal sized.

Famine

It's really a crying shame that people cannot present their opinions without being lambasted by other users. This is exactly the kind of behaviour that gets people Infraction Points and gets threads locked, simply because they can't agree to disagree.

And I'm not pointing fingers at this point. If you feel you cannot state your opinion without attacking the opinions of others, this thread isn't the place for you - and nor, in all likelihood, is GTPlanet. That's not to say that discussion isn't welcome - by all means present your thoughts and, where you think other users are incorrect through assumption, reasons and evidence.

But for the love of trees, people, this is a thread about a DEMO of a PREVIEW of a COMPUTER GAME. Why should the moderators' inboxes be full of Thread Reports for that?


Incidentally, my thoughts:
The physics are improved, but they've leaned a little far into oversteer now - I think the understeer physics are much better, but the cars are a little too happy to step the tail out under braking. As a reference for how much improved the understeer physics is, I could clearly see my Evo X vibrating as though the inside-front was scrabbling as I tried to put too much power on, too early in the corner.
The sound is much improved. I plumb my sound through a pair of Yamaha MS-101/II Monitor Speakers and the cars certainly don't sound like "modified leaf-blowers".
The graphics are not the leap I'd expected - at least within the race itself. This is probably due to the fact that I play on a relatively small 15", SD LCD. At that size and resolution, you hit a wall of diminishing returns where even large improvements don't appear that obvious. I'd benefit from getting my Schroedinger's Television back again or, judging by some of the responses regarding smears and jaggies, I wouldn't...
The in-car view is excellent. That's how I'm driving from now on. Mind you, I nearly stacked it a few times watching the needles going round instead of the track...
16 cars. 'Nuff said.
The gap between wheel and controller is much larger. Mind you, the SIXAXIS is bobbins as controllers go - I'm a second or so quicker a lap with a DS2 than a SIXAXIS on GT4. But it could also be down to the improved physics - everything feels that little bit more natural.


Overall, I quite like this DEMO of a PREVIEW. It's not perfect, but for a completely free three-quarters-of-a-gigabyte of data, it's not too shabby.

Click to expand...

Well said Famine, could not agree with you more.
Looking forward to the full GT5P version.

thanks Famine for the physics description,especially the oversteer/understeer stuff:tup:.I've studied the youtube vids a bit and it seems a little easy to do/hold monster throttle oversteer slides (maybe these players are trully gifted?) ala FM2 but i prob should try the demo myself.

^ It's definitely less easier to hold onto a slide than in FM2. To be honest personally if it was a little harder to hold onto a slide in this demo (especially in the BMW) I would get frustrated.

My 2cents,
GT5 demo was a dissapointment from the simulation point of view compared to Forza2.

Pros
-Car Grafix
-In-car view

Cons
-Simulation...is that it?
-Breaking, is this 4 real...shall it sound that annoying?
-Crashing in to other cars...is this Pinball?
-No decent G25 support, why bother playing

Even for a demo of a demo...this is by far the Beautifullest and the worst racingdemo I've played yet.

Prologue Demo(that will actually COST money) better be much better than this one, otherwise no one who loves racing would by it.

Still enjoying Forza2 and LFS and hoping for a good comeback on GT5.

People, you, who like to criticise the game, rmember it is still "work in progress" It's free! It's a demo! And it's only 736mb!

PS: I wanted to say this yesterday but I forgot. So I'm telling it now. Be happy and have a lot of fun!