Bad decisions by PD

  • Thread starter StogyBear
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Wuestenmaus
Is that so? I know that Iracing has a very nice FFB and that you can feel the street better through your wheel. It also has a more in depth setup but thats it. I drove a few rounds in the soltice and one other car, but what is so exceptional about that in your opinion? With the same car, track and setup as in real life, you can recreate the exact same lap times with GT5. How can this get any better?

I really want to know why do you think that Iracing is so much better. The driving physics are nearly the same in my opinion.
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DV's response is pretty accurate although I think he comes down a little hard on GT5. GT5 has to appeal to a mass market audience and this causes some of the problems that simulation fans have with it. PD can't focus only on sim elements but that is all iRacing does.

iRacing is a well funded, very highly focused simulation product and it shows in more than just the excellent FFB. A few other areas of note are the accuracy of the cars (they build them with the same fanaticism they use on the laser scanned tracks and they only build ones they get accurate data on plus real race driver feedback from) and the fact that there are no driver aids that aren't available in real life. You learn the tracks by trial and error--no changing color lines on the track surface etc. When you crash, you are out of the race or, at best, severely hampered. This changes your racing behavior dramatically. The whole iRacing experience is trying to replicate real life racing. This doesn't make it better than GT5 in all ways but it does make it different. Is iRacing a better racing simulation? Yes--but it also costs significantly more and has, in some ways (except tracks), far fewer options. Is it a better entertainment experience? That will differ person to person based upon your preferences.

I like both GT5 and iRacing but get frustrated by both too. The thing is, I get frustrated by (imho) poor design issues in GT5 but in iRacing I get frustrated that I am often not as competitive as I'd like to be. It takes so much practice to compete with many of the other members at the more advanced levels!
 
realwerewolf
Dying breed? maybe you should see the massive sales and look in the mirror, as that is a ignorant and wrong statement if i ever heard one. 1.8 million in 2 days, on pace to sell 10 _ million in its lifetime like all GT games.
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How many cars do Pagani sell a year? I'm not sure, but I know Toyota sells alot more, so (using your "logic"), Toyota > Pagani.

See what I did there?
 
gaming25
But the point was that it isnt a "dying breed".
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Yes, but people can't judge the game until they buy it, hence the sales figures. Doesn't mean it's not a "dying breed", hence the majority of threads on GTPlanet being negative (along with reviews)
 
machschnel
Yes, but people can't judge the game until they buy it, hence the sales figures. Doesn't mean it's not a "dying breed", hence the majority of threads on GTPlanet being negative (along with reviews)
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An 86 isnt "negative". And GT Planet isnt representative on the mass population of GT5 owners.
 
gaming25
An 86 isnt "negative". And GT Planet isnt representative on the mass population of GT5 owners.
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If I invest 80 million and more than 5 years into something, I'd sure as hell want as close to 100 as possible.

And your'e right, GTPlanet only represents the biggest GT fan's, and they are still dissapointed
 
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I am enjoying GT5 quite a bit so far but share some of the frustrations in this thread with the many small problems that haven't been fixed from past games. At the same time, PD have fixed/tried to fix quite a few past problems too--and have produced a compelling game which is easily worth my $60.

I don't really care about paint jobs or wheels like many of you do but design issues like not being able to drive all cars without grinding out hundreds of hours just isn't suited to most adult lifestyles--and certainly not mine. I have many interests and a family as well. This leaves me limited time for any one thing--including a game I enjoy like GT5. I will probably never see the Red Bull fantasy prototype unlocked on my PS3 but it is a car I'd like to drive. Why can't I drive all cars in arcade mode either right from the start or with a reasonable amount of advancement? I am sure PD have an explanation for it but whatever their thinking is I can tell you that it doesn't match my needs at all. It isn't just the Red Bull prototype. Consider the three race cars from the 1960's each cost $20m and the F1 cars & LeMans prototypes are all around $5-12m each too. The whole thing is a little too much like Pokemon for my tastes. I don't mind having to work a little to open things up but hundreds of hours? This is probably my most pressing complaint.

Another issue is that career mode races are often all about bringing the best car to the race or having a totally inadequate car until you upgrade it. Things like this have lingered from earlier GT games and I suppose PD think this is what makes GT great. Maybe it is. But I've played all the GT games from day 1 when they came out and I am tired of these design elements. I'd rather have the competition more closely aligned and less reliance on constant upgrades to have the best car.
 
machschnel
If I incest 80 million and more than 5 years into something, I'd sure as hell want as close to 100 as possible.
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Good for you. But the sales speak for themselves.
machschnel
And your'e right, GTPlanet only represents the biggest GT fan's, and they are still dissapointed
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Most GT fans are the biggest fans, so that isnt true, and still, the only people who are "dissapointed" are the ones who express it. That is how forums work. That doesnt represent most of the GT Planet fans.
 
It's also quite strange that most (not all) of the "dissapointed" members seem to be new members. There has been a strange quietness from most of the GT Planet regulars, and I assume that is because they are playing and enjoying the game.
 
I am a new member since I don't think I ever went onto a video game car forum until Forza 3 came out. But I played the first Japanese version of Gran Turismo and was hooked since then. I just feel like Forza 3 is still more polished than GT5 from what I have played. I remember being more into playing Forza too, which surprised me as I always find it more interesting when another company can actually match another companies game.

My thing has always been that I am super happy that the videogamer has multiple choices for awesome racing games. GT5 is amazing even with it's flaws. But that's the part that I don't understand. All this time and there are some major flaws in the game. And yet GT5 is still amazing. That says a lot for what the current gen of gamers expect.
 
otago
DFGT.

I also have crappy Logitech DriveFX for X360. Before I had MS racing wheel but it broke down after 6 month non stop playing Forza 2. LOL
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I really dont want to come across as rude or obnoxious. But sell your toy, Buy mid range - top end fanatec wheel or a g25/27, then buy a subscription to iRacing, buy rfactor, download realfeel, buy lfs. THEN come back in a year and a half and talk to me about FFB. as I have stated, GT5 has a great physics engine, but a garbage ffb model.
 
To the guys saying the rims are made so they only fit how they would in real life please explain this. The Volk CE28N rims are the most popular rims on the evo IX and fit perfectly fine. They don't rub or require fender rolling. These rims are available in GT5, but not for the Evo IX!!! Why? someone explain this to me. Why are these rims available for the GTR, but not the evo? It seems like it would be so simple to do. Set a max wheel size for a specific car and let the player resize the wheel up to that maximum size. Just like every other game. Nope, PD had to **** that up somehow too.

I love the physics and graphics, but that could only be fun for so long.
 
-=DV=-
ok ill address this point by point.
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First, I would like to thank you for your very detailed answer. I really appreciate it.

-=DV=-
ok ill address this point by point.
The tracks cant be 100% accurately replicated using PD's method. So how with inaccurate car replication, and inaccurate track replication can GT ever claim to yeild true and accurate results like that. It cant. This is cemented by the fact that some people on here are smashing the stigs power lap records in the same cars by nearly 10 seconds a lap in some cases using a control pad!...NOT EVEN A WHEEL...A CONTROL PAD!
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I don't think that this is a real problem. I know that many Live for Speed online records were achieved by using a mouse and still LFS is a very decent simulation. So it does not speak against GT5 if some people drive fast with the DS3.

-=DV=-
2. FFB, the ffb in gt5 is completely laughable. If im honest it feels like its little more than a strong centering spring, with a few canned effects.
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I have to admit that this is absolutely true. When I was reading your reply I had the impression that we somehow feel the same way about GT5: Physics are great but the FFB is somehow ruining it. In Iracing, I could sometimes feel what is happening inside the car (there were effects I didn't know my G27 was capable of) and it was always very clear on what sort of surface I was driving on at the moment. Probably PD should ask the Iracing developers how they are doing this:)

-=DV=-
Track realism. In Iracing the tracks are laser scanned....It is also a process that is alot more streamlined and efficient for creating tracks than PD's method. Ie. Go to a track, take a million photos, spend thousands of hours painsteakingly modelling the track from scratch using the photos as references, texture it, compile it, export it, test it. Only to find out that one of the sections is scaled incorrectly. Or to be told by a tester that the bump in the middle of turn 3 is missing.
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Is this true, Kaz is not using a laser equipment? I thought that this would already be a standard in the industry. Do you have a source available, were PD developers are explaining their method? But this could also explain why I cannot feel the road...
 
Animera
It's also quite strange that most (not all) of the "dissapointed" members seem to be new members. There has been a strange quietness from most of the GT Planet regulars, and I assume that is because they are playing and enjoying the game.
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The critics are usually the loudest because the people actually enjoying the game are busy playing it.
 
StogyBear
To the guys saying the rims are made so they only fit how they would in real life please explain this. The Volk CE28N rims are the most popular rims on the evo IX and fit perfectly fine. They don't rub or require fender rolling. These rims are available in GT5, but not for the Evo IX!!! Why? someone explain this to me. Why are these rims available for the GTR, but not the evo? It seems like it would be so simple to do. Set a max wheel size for a specific car and let the player resize the wheel up to that maximum size. Just like every other game. Nope, PD had to **** that up somehow too.

I love the physics and graphics, but that could only be fun for so long.
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They also forget these rims come in different sizes to fit different vehicles. They should just have allowed all rims on all vehicles. Easier.
 
Bad decision no 3,984: HUD (Head Up Display).

:sly:

The bad decision is to force everyone to use it regardless of personal prefference, the next bad decision in the making seems to be this what was quoted on the news page today:


"Yamauchi appears to consider the possibility of removing the in-game HUD (heads-up-display features) at some point in the future."


Why is this mans thinking so black & white? Why is it that we're gonna either have HUD or not? Why is there no inbetween, no compromise & no multiple options for GT's multiple types of users?

:crazy:

Here is the way to deal with the HUD that would please EVERYONE, listen up Kazunori San!

💡

The HUD is left on as default when you first play the game, this is done not to confuse or upset regular fans. Then, in the options menu each individual item of HUD can be turned on or off by the player (like we can do with the map at present). Once the player has chosen which individual items of HUD he wants to see whilst playing, he can then toggle it all on & off whilst racing using the square button. This wouldn't be at all difficult to implement, it's just an array of on/off switches giving players who want it options.

This way you can still check to see the state of your tyres, splits & what lap you're on if you wanna race without HUD, you'll need to do this cos you have no race engineer to inform you in game like you would in reality. it's a win-win-win situation!

The lack of multiple options generally in GT games is one big thing that lets it down imo, that & the fact that they introduce features in one game you start to rely on, then remove them in the next, they need to learn to build on what works & stick to the proverb: "If it aint broke, don't fix it!"


👍
 
traind
I am enjoying GT5 quite a bit so far but share some of the frustrations in this thread with the many small problems that haven't been fixed from past games. At the same time, PD have fixed/tried to fix quite a few past problems too--and have produced a compelling game which is easily worth my $60.

I don't really care about paint jobs or wheels like many of you do but design issues like not being able to drive all cars without grinding out hundreds of hours just isn't suited to most adult lifestyles--and certainly not mine. I have many interests and a family as well. This leaves me limited time for any one thing--including a game I enjoy like GT5. I will probably never see the Red Bull fantasy prototype unlocked on my PS3 but it is a car I'd like to drive. Why can't I drive all cars in arcade mode either right from the start or with a reasonable amount of advancement? I am sure PD have an explanation for it but whatever their thinking is I can tell you that it doesn't match my needs at all. It isn't just the Red Bull prototype. Consider the three race cars from the 1960's each cost $20m and the F1 cars & LeMans prototypes are all around $5-12m each too. The whole thing is a little too much like Pokemon for my tastes. I don't mind having to work a little to open things up but hundreds of hours? This is probably my most pressing complaint.

Another issue is that career mode races are often all about bringing the best car to the race or having a totally inadequate car until you upgrade it. Things like this have lingered from earlier GT games and I suppose PD think this is what makes GT great. Maybe it is. But I've played all the GT games from day 1 when they came out and I am tired of these design elements. I'd rather have the competition more closely aligned and less reliance on constant upgrades to have the best car.
Click to expand...

Agreed,stock cars are no match...and even when you upgrade them just to the average horse power of the usual competitors they stand no chance...


Spagetti69
Is their anyway to remove upgrades from your cars?
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I think you can "uninstall" it.
 
As much as i didn't want it to be so, GT5 should have been the GT1/GT3 for the PS3. Kaz should have stuck to the ~200 premiums, about 15 tracks, do them really well and stop trying to force 1080p down the programmers' throats. 720p @ 30 fps would have made the game look SO much better to begin with, not to mention keeping the game consistent.

The other design choices are just plain weird. Used cars are used cars but i can't get over how many "new" cars are in there and not at the dealers, how pretty much all prize cars show up in the used cars section, why the prize cars cannot be sold, the AI is as wooden as ever, the course maker is unfinished, weather and time should have been available for all tracks... Etc etc.

GT5, in short, is not done. They wanted to make GT6 and suddenly decided to release their work-in-progress.


Still, i enjoy it, but i can understand how people are upset.
 
machschnel
How many cars do Pagani sell a year? I'm not sure, but I know Toyota sells alot more, so (using your "logic"), Toyota > Pagani.

See what I did there?
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Can u read? He said Gt is dying, I said sales show otherwise, never once mentioned anything about quality.................. Anyone who thinks Gt is dying needs to see a doctor.
 
travanx
My thing has always been that I am super happy that the videogamer has multiple choices for awesome racing games. GT5 is amazing even with it's flaws. But that's the part that I don't understand. All this time and there are some major flaws in the game. And yet GT5 is still amazing. That says a lot for what the current gen of gamers expect.
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What are the flaws, other than boxy shadows?
 
Strittan
What are the flaws, other than boxy shadows?
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pathetic damage model, Online is incredibly bare, no rewards, no credits or progression system, Ai is terrible, Lack of events mean you have to grind in SP, cars too expensive, Standard cars look like ps2 cars, Weather is barely in any races, no classification system means you can win most races just by using a faster car........................ If you cant see flaws, then LOL.
 
Here is my list:

Online rooms should be sorted by ping time.
Online room list should show event rules.
Online rooms should allow any car to be selected, not a small list of 'recommended' cars.
Online should have classes of cars so hosts can easily restrict races to a group of cars (right now it is a little bit guess work).
Online needs to display more information like who set the best lap time.
Online room list needs more sort options, like sort by car selection, race type etc.

...and so much more I cant think of right now.
 
-=DV=-
I really dont want to come across as rude or obnoxious. But sell your toy, Buy mid range - top end fanatec wheel or a g25/27, then buy a subscription to iRacing, buy rfactor, download realfeel, buy lfs. THEN come back in a year and a half and talk to me about FFB. as I have stated, GT5 has a great physics engine, but a garbage ffb model.
Click to expand...

I have a DFGT and a G25 at home. The difference between them in GT games is not as great as you might think. The g25 is better but, for the money, the DFGT does very well with GT5. I think it is due to the fact PD tuned GT5 specifically with the DFGT in mind. So if you have GT5 and a DFGT I think you can be pretty happy you have a good setup. Getting the G25/27 will be an upgrade from the DFGT but for those on a budget, the DFGT works quite well, in my opinion.

I do agree with DV on the FFB of iRacing and its excellence. The G25 on pc simulations really shows the quality of the wheel and the FFB quality of the simulation too. But if you play on current GT/console games only I don't think the G25/27 FFB quality shows itself fully.
 
JackC8
....Would really be nice if I could change cars from the pre-race menu even if my current car qualifies for the race. But no, all the way back out to the main menu, go through the whole click on the car, then click on change the car, then tell it I'm sure, then exit that whole deal and go all the way back to whatever race I was on.
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I thought this too at first but I've since noticed there is a Garage button at the bottom right of pre-race menu's. When you enter your Garage in this way it only displays cars which are eligible for the race you want to enter. Saves a lot of skipping back and forth.
 
The main thing that gets me about GT5 is the lack of decent tracks, just imagine how much better the game would be with Midfield, Tahiti, Red Rock Valley etc.
 

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