ERA | Endurance Racing Association

TDZdave

Hey mate, we are doing a series, race length minimum 2 hours, with two 3 hour events, you want a link?

Also we are currently organizing another N24 for next year, we run and won it last year, any help needed with the 25hr race just ask,

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TDZdave

I probably wouldn't participate as I am not a big fan of driving road cars, but would be interested in helping with the behind the scenes stuff regarding the 25hour race,

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TDZdave

I see, there really doesn't seem to be much interest, which is a shame really, I won't be available on Saturday, work + WEC,

Are you suggesting doing the "tag" system?

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braunracing88

Do you guys host endurance championships? I ask because I have an idea for a 500-mile race at Le Mans that I hope to use as a launchpad for a 2000s FIA GT Championship-inspired endurance championship. All races in it will be at least 300 miles long, so they should take more than the minimum 2 hours to complete. More details to come.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=285393

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Peelster1

We're working on something like that. Right now I'm hosting a NASCAR series with point standings and have some other ideas where races from multiple series could be incorporated into a separate endurance championship that highlight key races. For example: a Super GT series has a 1000 km race in it among other races, a LMP series has multiple 1000 km races among other races, and a DTM series might have a 1000 km race among other races. All of those 1000 km races could be put together for a separate championship. This way some people might be racing in the Super GT series exclusively while others might be racing in the LMP series exclusivity, but some might want to run only the 1000 km races for the 1000 km championship.

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braunracing88

Interesting. With that said, here are the race ideas I've got for my all-GT endurance championship. The first 10 are definitely going to be in the schedule.

Daytona Road Course - 85 laps - 300 miles
Suzuka Circuit - 87 laps - 500km
Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 87 laps - 500km
Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps - 86 laps - 600km
Circuit de la Sarthe - 60 laps - 500 miles
Nürburgring GP/F - 98 laps - 500km
Cape Ring - 92 laps - 400 miles
Grand Valley Speedway - 102 laps - 500km
Tokyo R246 - 98 laps - 500km
Nürburgring 24h - 32 laps - 500 miles (I might make this one a 600-miler)

These next races are ones that might be added, but nothing has been decided.

Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca - 134 laps - 300 miles
Special Stage Route 5 - 133 laps - 500km
Twin Ring Motegi Road Course - 105 laps - 500km
Fuji Speedway GT - 111 laps - 500km
Indianapolis Road Course - 115 laps - 300 miles
High Speed Ring - 121 laps - 300 miles

What do you think?

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Peelster1

It will be difficult to get a group of people together for a 10 race schedule. My last schedule for IndyCar was 8 races long and only a few attended every race and some that attended multiple races started halfway through. That left the championship between myself and one other racer. It was close though. I wouldn't add much else onto the schedule.

If you want it to be an even 3 months at one race a week I would add High Speed Ring and maybe Laguna Seca. I'm not a fan of Laguna Seca, but the races I've held there have been fun. I would stay away from Indy Road Course and SSR5. Motegi Road makes for a good race as well and if you want a difficult track I would include Fuji.

Circuit de la Sarthe should be the 2005 version for sure. For the Nürburgring 24h I would keep it at 500 miles. The most laps that F1 ran there was 22 laps for the German Grand Prix. The track is very tedious and it's hard to get into a rhythm there. If you're planning on making it your finale you might be able to get your drivers to agree to 600 miles.

I'm not sure how attached to your definite races for your schedule, but I would get rid of Cape Ring. A lot of people don't like it, especially with the jump. Perhaps change it to any of the configurations that doesn't have the jump. Personally, I like the loop, but the jump can cause issues.

Also, do you plan on using weather change versions when available?

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braunracing88

Yes, including Le Mans. Unfortunately, the 2005 version doesn't have changeable weather. And the approach to the Dunlop Chicane on the 2005 version is much trickier. I can see what the Dunlop Curve was reconfigured to its current configuration. Plus, if run on the 2009 version with weather and time change, the race can include nighttime driving. Just like the spot race thread I showed earlier, with a daytime start and a nighttime finish.
And yes, the Nürburgring 24h race will be the season finale. And yes, it will also have changeable weather and time, with a daytime start and a nighttime finish.
Also, since right now I am currently contesting memto89's World Endurance Championship, if this gets going before the current WEC season ends, it will likely be on days where the isn't a WEC race, which is currently every other Saturday.
And just out of curiosity, if you were doing the schedule, how would you have it look?

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Peelster1

I have 6, maybe 7 people interested so far. 2 are paired up as a team, and I'm not sure if the others have co-drivers. Mainly, I'm using the 4 hour practice race as an interest check race to see who we have and if they can do the 25 hours as well as to make sure everything is running smoothly.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by the "tag" system. Please explain.

I really shouldn't need additional assistance with the July 13th 4 hour race. Are you good for the 20th into the 21st though? I plan on monitoring the entire 25 hours. I wouldn't be asking you to do the same. However, if you feel up to it, be my guest.

If we end up not having enough people to run the 25 hour race, I'll probably just split the teams into separate drivers for the 4 hour one and try to rally more people for the 25 hour in the meantime. Be sure to share this event with any people that you think might be interested.

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TDZdave

Explaining the tag system,
This appears simple but extremely complicated to organize, done right will be easy to pull off,

assuming you have teams of 3+ drivers,
Driver 1 starts the event, driver 2 stays in pits,
Driver 1 pits, driver 2 goes on track,
Driver 1 leaves lobby,
Driver 3 enters,
Driver 2 pits, driver 3 leaves pit,
Driver 2 leaves lobby
Driver 1 returns,

This continues until the race finishes,

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Peelster1

Sorry for the delay in reply, it's been a busy week so far. Anyway, depending on how far you want to go into being inspired by the FIA GT Championship: I would make all of the distances 500 km with a race limit of 3 hours long per the 3 hour rule. I would also wait for GT6 so you can use Silverstone. It seems the best season to simulate would be 2001 as it used Silverstone, Monza, Nürburgring, and Spa for a 24 hour race.

I would keep the schedule at 10 exactly (not including the Spa 24 Hours and it would look something like this.)

1. Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 87 Laps - Monza 500km
2. Filler - 500 km
3. Filler - 500 km
4. Silverstone GP Circuit - 98 Laps - Silverstone 500km
5. Filler - 500 km
6. Filler - 500 km
7. Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps - 24 Hours - Spa 24 Hours
8. Filler - 500 km
9. Nürburgring GP/F - 110 Laps - Nürburgring 500km
10. Filler - 500 km
11. Filler - 500 km

For the fillers I would recommend keeping it as European as possible. The tracks I would use would be:

Côte d'Azur (Top choice, European)
Circuito de Madrid (Top choice, fictional, but European.)
Rome (A little tight, fictional, but European.)
Grand Valley Speedway (Fictional and seems like it would be American, but it has great flow.)
Trial Mountain (Same review as Grand Valley, but perhaps Asian instead.)
Road Course - Twin Ring Motegi (Asian, but great flow.)
Circuit de la Sarthe (not a fan of the flow or the size of the track in comparison to the others but it's a major European track, even though FIA GT Series never raced there. If we had the Bugatti circuit I would use that instead. Then again, Circuit de la Sarthe is in GTR2 - FIA GT Racing Game.)

If you don't think organizing a 24 hour race is possible then I would use Spa as another 500 km and remove a race from the schedule.

Recommend Car List:

GT Class
Lister Storm V12 Race Car ’99
Dodge Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car ’00
Dodge Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car ’00
Ferrari 599 '06
Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1 (JGTC) '00

N-GT Class
RUF RGT '00
Ferrari 430 Scuderia '07

Category 2
Renault Sport Clio Renault Sport Trophy V6 24V Race Car '00
Gillet Vertigo Race Car '04
Honda ARTA NSX (JGTC) '00
Honda Castrol MUGEN NSX (JGTC) '00
Honda LOCTITE MUGEN NSX (JGTC) '01
Honda Mobil 1 NSX (JGTC) '01
Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car
Honda RAYBRIG NSX (JGTC) '00

Category 2 or 3
RUF CTR2 '96

Category 3
Lotus Elise 111R RM '04

The italicized cars are a bit iffy. Those are the closest I could come up with for the Porsche's and Ferrari's. The Renault is extremely iffy. All of the NSX's are just because of different vinyls for the most part. I'm not really sure how differently they handle from each other. I wouldn't allow the '06 versions of the Super GT ones though. It seems like Category 2 is a bit faster than it should be, due to the lack of good N-GT Class cars you might just want to use the Category 2 cars as your N-GT class. As far as Category 3 is concerned, the Lotus is kind of slow. You might not even want to have a category 3 if it can't match up with anything. I selected the 111R RM '04 instead of the Elise '00 because it seems like the 111R RM '04 is the fastest out of all of the Elise's. If you're wondering about my schedule reasoning or my car choices. I've been getting a lot of my information from this source.

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Peelster1

Thanks, Dave. It actually seems simple to organize as well. This is similar to the method I was going to use, which was as follows:

Driver 1 starts the event and drives for X amount of time.
Driver 2 joins room.
Driver 1 pulls into the pits and exits.
Driver 2 gets on track and takes off.
Driver 1 leaves lobby.
Driver 2 drives for X amount of time.
Driver 3 Joins lobby.

I believe that using the tag system, Driver 2 might take off before driver 1 is off track. If we wait for Driver 1 to be off track before Driver 2 gets on track it would allow for a slight delay to simulate a driver change. However, this system could give drivers that are sharing a console an unfair advantage as they would simply pass the controller. Perhaps a certain amount of time for those drivers?

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TDZdave

Yes same concept, but if you are able to have friends over and participate then you should get the advantages of being able to do that, and you will need a car that can maintain top 3 on the lead lap so you know what the lap count should be,

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braunracing88

Apology for late reply accepted. Now, as far as the cars are concerned, I had planned on using racing cars only. The list of eligible GT2 cars was smaller than I expected, hence why I included JGTC/SUPER GT entries. The reason I didn't include the Elise 111R RM is because it would be too uncompetitive compared to the other GT2 entries. It's just too low on power to really be competitive despite its lack of weight. Another car I had to omit was the Acura NSX RM because it was also too low on power. However, this gives me an idea for a development series featuring those two cars with slightly shorter races (2 hours at the minimum).
Also, I never had a specific year in mind when setting up the cars. In fact, some of the cars on the list I had were in the GT games during the time period you were referencing.
Now, as far as the races are concerned, I agree at Monza, Spa, Nürburgring and Silverstone should be on there. Those four will stay. Other tracks that hosts endurance races in the real world would also make great additions. Tracks like Daytona Road Course and Suzuka Circuit fit this group. They will also be at least 500km in length. Le Mans is definitely gonna be on there. At the very least it will be a 500-miler, as originally planned. For that track, I had a daytime start and a nighttime finish in mind. Same with the Nürburgring 24h course, which will also be at least a 500-miler. Also, too add some endurance factor, I was thinking of having Spa be a 600km race if a 24-hour would prove difficult to pull off. I definitely think Grand Valley would make an excellent addition. For a street circuit, I'm not 100% sure about Monaco, but Rome and/or Madrid would be nice additions. Still not sure what other tracks should round out the schedule, but if new ideas come to me, I will post them in here.

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Peelster1

If you can't pull of the 24 hours of Spa, I'd make it 1000 km. (621.371192 miles). 600 km is only 372.822715 miles. Therefore, the Le Mans race would still be the longest race at a distance of 500 miles (804.672 km).

I also omitted the Acura NSX RM '91 from my list, as it is too old and low on power. However, if you wanted to include the Lotus Elise 111R RM '04 you might be able to just match those two up for a slower category. Seeing how the N-GT class cars that I could come up with (and both substitutes at that) are not race cars, my recommendation would just be to make the Category 2 race cars that I listed your N-GT class and have the Acura NSX RM '91 and the Lotus Elise 111R RM '04 become your Category 3 if you wanted to go with 3 classes for this instead of 2.

I've updated the car list a little bit now that I've pulled up all the stats on mygranturismo.net. I've also rearranged the list from best to worst (in my opinion just from looking at the stats) for each class.

Updated Car List

GT1 GT Class
Gillet Vertigo Race Car '04
Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1 (JGTC) '00
Dodge Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car #51 ’00
Dodge Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car #91 ’00
Lister Storm V12 Race Car ’99

GT2 N-GT Class
Honda LOCTITE MUGEN NSX (JGTC) '01
Honda Mobil 1 NSX (JGTC) '01
Honda Castrol MUGEN NSX (JGTC) '00
Honda ARTA NSX (JGTC) '00
Honda RAYBRIG NSX (JGTC) '00
Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car

Category 3
Acura NSX RM '91
Renault Sport Clio Renault Sport Trophy V6 24V Race Car '00
Lotus Elise 111R RM '04

The Gillet Vertigo Race Car was moved up a class because it seems like it's the best car out of all listed. I'm a little worried it might outclass the rest of the GT Class, but at the same time I've heard that it wasn't that good when it was in GT4. The Renault was moved down a class because it quite a bit worse than the NSX's. However, this would leave the N-GT class to be NSX exclusive without some other cars. It's a rough grid, I like the looks of my first draft better due to the variety, but this second draft takes the actual performance of the cars into account.

Personally, I would get rid of Category 3 except for the 24 Hours of Spa, in which any people that aren't running the full series could take those cars.

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braunracing88

If Spa is available in GT6 with time change available, I might give the 24-hour idea more consideration. For right now, that one is still up in the air. I do like the idea of JGTC/SUPER GT cars being included in GT2. But I think it should include more than just NSXs. Skyline GT-R, Supras, even the more current SUPER GT machines would be welcome additions to the class to give it some diversity. Which is why I also included some of the lower-powered Dream Car machines like the RX-7 LM and RX-8 LM and some RMs like the Camaro, Tuscan Speed 6 and Silvia Spec-R AERO (S15), as well as TCs like the Skyline GT-R R32 and R33, with the R34 and R35 in GT1. In GT1, some of the higher-end Dream Car machines and some RMs like the Corvette C6s (both Z06 and ZR1) would be great fits as well. Again, it's to add some diversity to the field. I don't know how many cars are gonna be on track in GT6. If it's more than the current 16, that will certainly help add more entries and draw in more diverse cars. I didn't have a specific year in mind when selecting cars for this series, just a specific decade in terms of class format. Also, the R8 LMS is similar in performance compared to those cars. What do you think of including it in GT2?

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Peelster1

I don't know if you would want to put many more cars up as an option. Right now I'm thinking of GT2 as NSX vs. Tuscan Speed 6, but I think the NSX will probably beat the Tuscan easily. The Gillet Vertigo Race Car was originally GT2, but it's stats are the best out of everything, on the other hand I'm seeing reviews that say the Vertigo Race Car isn't very good. The Panoz was also GT2 in real life, but it's stats say GT1 as well. While actually a GT1 car, depending on testing we might also be able to bump the Lister Storm down to GT2, it doesn't seem to match up as well to the other GT1's. Oh, and I edited the list a bit more since your post.

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braunracing88

I found out the TVR would need some performance upgrades to become more competitive with the NSXs and other JGTC/SUPER GT machines. Same with the Silvia SpecR AERO (S15) RM, of which mine stands at 470HP thanks to the Stage 3 Turbo, around what the JGTC/SUPER GT cars run at. Now do bear in mind, I have a minimum weight of 1000kg for both GT1 and GT2 and an RM Tuscan Speed 6 would need ballast to meet the minimum weight requirement. The Silvia, on the other hand, is already on the mark in terms of weight.
Originally, I hadn't even considered the Vertigo, considering it has 800+HP, too high for the GT1 maximum of 650HP. I think some testing may be in order, but I currently don't have one myself. I didn't include the Panoz because I wanted to include cars that actually have a production counterpart of one form or another. I would have to check my garage and see if I have a Lister as well. I did, however, test the McLaren F1 GTR with 50kg of ballast to bring it up to the minimum weight, yet at Le Mans it was still around 2 seconds faster than the next-fastest GT1, a Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6) RM. What do you think about including the McLaren and the Corvette C6 RMs as well as the Corvette C5-R?

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Peelster1

The other Corvettes are too powerful and the McLaren just outclasses everything. Please note, that all cars I listed were actually used in the FIA GT Championship. I don't have a good opinion on the minimum weight. The Tuscan is slower than the NSX's and the only way it really could compete is if it weighs less. The best way to test would be to start with the default models of the cars and work from there. Of course any and all testing would have to wait until GT6 due to GT6 having a new physics engine.

Mainly, I just wanted to list cars that we could use and get that out of the way. Let's move on to filling in the schedule.

1. Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 87 Laps - Monza 500km (Actual Race #1.)
2. Rome - 144 Laps - Rome 500km (Perhaps Grand Valley here instead? Or some 5 km long circuit. I like Rome for the schedule, but I don't know where to put it.)
3. Circuit de la Sarthe - 37 Laps - Le Mans 500km (France was Race #3.)
4. Silverstone GP Circuit - 98 Laps - Silverstone 500km (Actual Race #4.)
5. Côte d'Azur - 149 Laps - Monaco 500km - (Same general shape as Circuit Zolder.)
6. Trial Mountain - 126 Laps - Trial Mountain 500km (Seems like a good alternative for Hungaroring.)
7. Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps - 24 Hours - Spa 24 Hours (Actual Race #7.)
8. Deep Forest Raceway 139 Laps - Deep Forest 500km (Seems similar to the A1-Ring, except the midsection gets a little tight.)
9. Nürburgring GP/F - 110 Laps - Nürburgring 500km (Actual Race #9.)
10. Circuito de Madrid - 148 Laps - Madrid 500km (Spain was Race #10.)
11. Grand Valley Speedway - 101 Laps - Grand Valley 500km (Grand Valley is a complex track and I felt like it would make a good finale.)

What do you think?

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braunracing88

The Z06 RM at default is barely over 620HP. For the ones I currently have, I would have to remove a few parts to put them at that level. The Z06 is also another car that DID compete in the FIA GT Championship. And I currently don't plan on including the McLaren F1 GTR. The TVR already weighs at least 100kg less than the NSXs. Remember, I did put in a minimum weight of 1000kg and am considering success ballast to help keep the playing field level.
As for the schedule, like having Monza, Spa, Nürburgring and Silverstone in there. But the race lengths for the latter two are on layouts that aren't available. I also think that Daytona and Suzuka would be good alternate venues, since they also host actual endurance races. Plus they would add more international variety to the host countries. And like I said before, if Spa features day and night driving in GT6, I'll be happy to make that one a 24-hour. It would at least make it more realistic. Daytona would be 88 laps for 500km and Suzuka would be 87 laps for 500km.

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Peelster1

I think you're confusing the Z06 for the C5-R. The C5-R was in the FIA GT Championship, not the Z06. I have listed the C5-R in the car list on the first page of this thread though, in my second car list post. As I stated earlier I did some editing after you replied to it. That edit included the Panoz, Tuscan, and reclassifying the Vertigo among adding more cars to GT1.

While the Tuscan is lighter by 235 or 265 kg (depending on which NSX you are comparing it with) it is short by 88 to 111 HP (again depending on which NSX you compare it with). Personally, I'd just leave it to the testing once GT6 is released and go from there.

Wow, you're right about that layout bit. I suppose we could adjust the lap totals accordingly and use the layouts that are available. I initially wrote if off as an error on PD's part. (For example, they list Motegi Speedway of having a length of 1.5 miles instead of 1.55 miles, which would be rounded up from 1.549 miles.)

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braunracing88

That may be, but let's not forget that the C6.R that raced in FIA GT is based on the Z06, whereas the GTE C6.R is based on the ZR1.
For the track layouts, I already calculated the distance for a 500km race around the current Nürburgring GP/F and it came out to 98 laps. I don't know the current length of the new Arena layout for Silverstone and personally, I wish the kept the Bridge layout as a National-level Grand Prix circuit while the new one could be an International-level Grand Prix circuit. Also, Spa is slightly different than from the year you're talking about, although the change is only a minor one with the reconfiguring of the Bus Stop Chicane.

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Peelster1

I hate how it didn't show this in my updated subscription notification area.

I hadn't thought about the C6.R being based off of the Z06. I would only add one of those Corvettes. (Which if I had to choose between the 2, I would choose the Z06 over the ZR1. The ZR1 is still powerful at it's default and can be tuned to be the fastest car in the entire grid with ease.) 3 different kinds total seem like a bit much. It may seem like GT2 has a lot of NSX's, but looking at the stats, it's really just 2 different kinds with various paint jobs. Depending on how the Vertigo tests, we might to keep it in GT2 where it originated. The Lister is slow in comparison to the rest of the GT1 class, we might have to move it down to GT2 depending on GT6 testing. I reorganized the list to show originating class.

Car List V.4

GT1 GT Class
Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT-1 (JGTC) '00
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6) RM '06
Dodge Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car #51 ’00
Dodge Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car #91 ’00
Chevrolet Corvette C5-R (C5) '00
Ford GT LM Spec II Test Car
Ford GT LM Race Car Spec II
Lister Storm V12 Race Car ’99 Possible GT2.

GT2 N-GT Class
Panoz Esperante GTR-1 Race Car '98 Likely GT1.
Gillet Vertigo Race Car '04 Possible GT1.
Honda Castrol MUGEN NSX (JGTC) '00
Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car
Honda LOCTITE MUGEN NSX (JGTC) '01
Honda Mobil 1 NSX (JGTC) '01
Honda ARTA NSX (JGTC) '00
Honda RAYBRIG NSX (JGTC) '00
TVR Tuscan Speed 6 RM '00

Category 3
Acura NSX RM '91
Lotus Elise 111R RM '04

I also wish they kept the Bridge layout. Shutting down an entire section just because of motorcycle racing. I'm all for the new section, but I don't think they needed to permanently close the Bridge section.

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braunracing88

Since I currently do not have a Lister Storm Race Car, I haven't been able to do any testing on that, so I can't give an honest opinion on that. Still not sure about the Panoz, what with it having almost no real production basis. And again, I do have power limits for each class, 650 for GT1, 550 for GT2. The Panoz and Gillet are both above the GT1 limit, hence my hesitation to include them. As for the GT2 NSXs, much of my recent testing has been done with a 2006 Raybrig NSX. I also have the Mobil 1, Castrol Mugen NSX, Loctite NSX and the newer ARTA NSX, along with the 2008 EPSON NSX. So far, among the GT500 machines I'd considered for the class, which include the 2008 Calsonic GT-R and the 2008 Denso Sard SC430 I've used for testing, the NSXs have been the fastest behind the HSV-010, so I can't say I blame you for not including it here.
For Category 3, I think the 1996 Lotus Elise RM and the Nissan Silvia SpecR (S15) AERO RM would also be good for the class since they are similar in power and weight. Just an idea.
And you blame the permanent decommission of the Bridge Layout on the location of the new pit exit. If I were in charge of its placement, I would've put it on Hangar Straight. That way, both Bridge and Arena layouts could be used depending on what a series wants to use.

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Peelster1

We can't really give any good opinions on how any of the cars will handle until GT6, as this is going to be a GT6 series. Personally, I would scrap the current power limit that you have in place and work something out after default testing and fully tuned testing has taken place, then work from there.

I think you're trying to include too many cars. We already have quite the selection to choose from. Like I mentioned earlier, I would not include Category 3 except for Spa for those drivers that aren't in the full series. I wouldn't object to the inclusion of the 1996 Lotus Elise RM if it matches up against the '99 NSX RM better than 111R Lotus.

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