First car ideas - suggestions?

Jondot · Sep 17, 2008

Yep, it's one of these threads.

So, I'm after a first car. And I've decided that I can go down one of two routes.

Option 1: Buy something cheap and hope it doesn't bankrupt me

This is pretty much what everyone does. The theory being, you buy something generally reliable (Corsa :yuck:

) for £1700 and run it for as long as it's financially viable.

Possible choices: Ford Focus (at a pinch), Ford Ka, Ford Fiesta, Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford

Pros: Could cost me less money overall; I shouldn't care if someone keys it (but I will anyway); Should be cheaper to insure

Cons: Could cost me more money overall; If I pick the wrong one I could end up on the hard shoulder of the M1 more frequently than I'd like; it'll be something from before the days that Euro-NCAP mattered

Option 2: Buy something newer with a warranty and keep it for...ever...

This is pretty much what... um... nobody does. The theory being, if you spend a bit more you can have a newer car with a year's warranty still intact, which is less likely to go horribly wrong. And it should last me longer. Like... years longer. But, I'd have to spend £4000ish. Which I'm willing to do.

Possible choices: new-ish Ford Focus, newer Ford Ka, new-ish Astra, new-ish Suzuki Swift, etc.

Pros: I get a shiny new-ish thing; it's less likely to break down (maybe); it'll come with a warranty; it'll be safer NCAP wise; it'll have more lovely kit; it'll last longer (in theory); I won't cry at the interior plastic quality

Cons: It's more expensive; it's more expensive to insure; I'm more likely to cry if it gets keyed; it's more likely to get keyed; it'll depreciate more because there's more cash to lose

Needs:

It's gotta be a refined motorway cruiser. Potentially I'm going to be up and down to Leeds at the holidays, so I don't relish the idea of a 4 hour journey in a 0.8 Hyundai Amica for example
It's gotta be cheap to run. So no 1.8 petrols or 2.2 diesels, unless the car its self is cheap enough to justify the extra cost of fuel. And the tax should be fairly cheap too.
It can't be ma-hoo-sive. As much as I'd love a Mondeo estate or an Omega or something, I wouldn't want to park it.
It's gotta be cheap to insure. Well, fairly, anyway. Nothing above about group 9 or 10 (I know that doesn't necessarily relate to the cost)
Nothing overly flash. I'd prefer something anonymous, to be honest. I don't particularly want anything sporty either - a Ford Puma is about my limit, I think. If I could afford a Kia Cee'd, that would be sublime.
I'd love air con. If I'm spending over £2000, I expect it. And that's about all I need.

So far, I've come up with:

The Lovely Vauxhall Astra

The Lovely Ford Focus... Saloon!

Ford Ka Zetec (Mmmm... Minilites...)

So, any suggestions?

buickgnx88 · Sep 17, 2008

Motorcycle.

*It's gotta be a refined motorway cruiser. Potentially I'm going to be up and down to Leeds at the holidays, so I don't relish the idea of a 4 hour journey in a 0.8 Hyundai Amica for example. check
*It's gotta be cheap to run. So no 1.8 petrols or 2.2 diesels, unless the car its self is cheap enough to justify the extra cost of fuel. And the tax should be fairly cheap too. check
*It can't be ma-hoo-sive. As much as I'd love a Mondeo estate or an Omega or something, I wouldn't want to park it. check
*It's gotta be cheap to insure. Well, fairly, anyway. Nothing above about group 9 or 10 (I know that doesn't necessarily relate to the cost) *not sure about insurance over there, so semi-check
*Nothing overly flash. I'd prefer something anonymous, to be honest. I don't particularly want anything sporty either - a Ford Puma is about my limit, I think. If I could afford a Kia Cee'd, that would be sublime. check
*I'd love air con. If I'm spending over £2000, I expect it. And that's about all I need. check, it's called the air!

That is all.

forza2.0 · Sep 17, 2008

lol the astra you wont get insured on unless you scam it.

Average insurance round my way is 3 grand on the cheapest insurance groups.

Jondot · Sep 17, 2008

buickgnx88
Motorcycle.

*It's gotta be a refined motorway cruiser. Potentially I'm going to be up and down to Leeds at the holidays, so I don't relish the idea of a 4 hour journey in a 0.8 Hyundai Amica for example. check
*It's gotta be cheap to run. So no 1.8 petrols or 2.2 diesels, unless the car its self is cheap enough to justify the extra cost of fuel. And the tax should be fairly cheap too. check
*It can't be ma-hoo-sive. As much as I'd love a Mondeo estate or an Omega or something, I wouldn't want to park it. check
*It's gotta be cheap to insure. Well, fairly, anyway. Nothing above about group 9 or 10 (I know that doesn't necessarily relate to the cost) *not sure about insurance over there, so semi-check
*Nothing overly flash. I'd prefer something anonymous, to be honest. I don't particularly want anything sporty either - a Ford Puma is about my limit, I think. If I could afford a Kia Cee'd, that would be sublime. check
*I'd love air con. If I'm spending over £2000, I expect it. And that's about all I need. check, it's called the air!

That is all.

....

No

I don't suit leather

forza2.0
lol the astra you wont get insured on unless you scam it.

What ever might have given you that impression? *Whistles*...

Actually for me (as a named driver on mum's policy, fine...) with a provisional on a 2005 Astra 1.7 CDTi I've been quoted £1281 from SwiftCover. Could be worse.

Havok_ · Sep 17, 2008

My first car was a 97 Integra GSR. It was bullet proof and i never even once worried "will it start?" I'm sure you can find a used Honda for a reasonable pirce and will have the reliability and safety you need in a first car. Good luck!

homeforsummer · Sep 18, 2008

You're refreshingly down to earth when it comes to stuff like this so I'll do my best to be down-to-earth with my suggestions.

I'm going to work with a £2000 budget, as I don't think £4k is necessary if you can avoid it. Five and a half years ago when I bought my car for £3.5k the choice of anything older for cheaper was a little dubious (Mk3 Escorts, first-gen Clios, slightly rusty Polos ect) but now £2k will get you an amazing amount of car (I know - my next car budget is £1.5k to get something sporty, reliable, fun and interesting).

I'm going to discard anything made by Italian or French companies as they're too stylish, and thanks to electrical gremlins, switching on your headlights will make the rear wiper do a sweep, and turning on the de-mister will beep the horn.

I'll also discard anything made by BMW or Mercedes as they're both too flash and insurance representatives will break into your house at night and empty your wallet.

This leaves, as you've mentioned, Fords and Vauxhalls, anything Japanese or far-Eastern, and Volkswagens. I'd be inclined to discard Vauxhalls too as for £2k any Vauxhall you get will leave you feeling depressed. For this reason, a Ford would be a better choice out of these too. A Focus might be asking a little too much for £2k so a Fiesta is a better bet.

You can get late model Mk5s for £2k pretty easily. A diesel will do millions of miles to the gallon but I'd personally recommend the archaic but ever-trustworthy 1.3 pushrod versions (same engine as in the Ka, and my Fiesta). They're pretty torquey (certainly more so than the 1.25 Zetecs all the magazines seem to prefer) and they're less likely to have been thrashed as they're not particularly revvy things (max power at about 5.5k revs and it gets a bit loud there). I've been regularly getting 48mpg out of mine, with a tankful being roughly 33% town stuff and the other 67% being motorways. Makes a diesel pretty redundant when I'd have to pay 10p a litre more.

Fiesta Mk5:

The Ka is obviously a good choice, but the Fiesta is objectively the better car - the tiniest bit more rear passenger space and definitely more boot space. Also Kas hold their value a bit better, so the equivalent Fiesta will be newer.

Moving away from Fords, may I suggest some Volkswagens?

£2k would easily get you a decent Mk3 Golf which if you pick a good'un will last for ages (especially the Diesels, which have been known to go for hundreds of thousands of miles) and would be good on longer journeys. Plenty of 1.4s about and 1.9 diesels. Definitely not too flash for you either. You could also go for a Polo, but to be honest Golfs are cheaper as people are gravitating towards smaller cars so things like Polos are holding their value, which makes them pants for buying second hand.

You could however buy something unloved, like a Polo Saloon. This 2001 model looks great for £1700, it's a 1.6, has the later interior shared with the Lupo and it has a certain charm about it.

Polo Saloon:

My personal favourite VW would be to get a Bora. Something like this Bora S 1.6 would be great. Only insurance group 5 as far as I know (only one group above my Fiesta), plenty of space, pretty good on fuel and looks great in a Germanic, understated way. Definitely a quality product.

Bora S 1.6:

You could always look at Skoda Felicias - bargain basement motoring but I've heard very good things about them and £2k will get you the best!

Skoda Felicia:

So, Japanese cars. In my experience these tend to cost more to insure (I looked at Japanese cars when I was looking for a car and they tended to be more). You could maybe run a few quotes on a Honda Civic 1.4 like this one, a nice car that meets all of your criteria, and should certainly be reliable.

Civic 1.4:

If Hondas aren't your thing, maybe something like a Toyota Corolla G6? 1.3 engine, good on fuel, and reliable to the point of boredom. Definitely not too flash either.

Corolla G6:

I'm getting kinda tired now (if nobody's guessed yet, it's late, I'm feeling a bit insomniac and I like talking about cheap cars) so I feel I have to suggest my choice from left-field.

Buy a Kia Magentis V6 for £2k and you will be a true legend. Insurance would probably be a bit steep, but you can't be too picky with 2.5 V6 engined wafty saloons that are only 6 years old.

Magentis V6:

I'm done! 👍

Jondot · Sep 18, 2008

Fiesta, 👍
I love the mk5s. It'll be one of my first points of call.

Polo, eh... I had completely forgotten about the saloons. I quite like it

Not as much as the Bora though.

Bora, 👍
Love it.

Skoda Felicia... Mmnno. If it was a Fabia, maybe. It's a little too basic for me.

The Civic and the Corolla aren't my cup of tea, to be honest.

I'd love a Magentis

The V6 engine scares me a bit, though. I've got a horrible feeling it'll just drink petrol and not really move.

You have been most helpful

Danny · Sep 18, 2008

To my esteemed friend, Jon,

Couldn't you cover it in sponsorship and hope that pays for it?

But +1 on the Magentis. If I'm ever feeling down in years to come, remind me of how much you paid to insure any of these choices, should perk me right up.

Thankyou,

Danvolio T. Guggenheim.

Moglet · Sep 18, 2008

I'd say go for a Fiesta Mk5. They're cheap to run, cheap to insure, cheap to tax and not bad cars anyway. They look fairly decent, too.

But please, for the love of god, don't do what my friend did and swap it for a Ka!

JCE · Sep 18, 2008

Fiesta FTW.

HACKr · Sep 18, 2008

Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta.

May I ask, Moglet, what is wrong with the Ka?

Moglet · Sep 18, 2008

HACKr
Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta.

May I ask, Moglet, what is wrong with the Ka?

Nothing, but my friend swapped his Fiesta for a slower, smaller car with no change in price. Seemed a stupid thing to do to me...

Perfect Balance · Sep 18, 2008

homeforsummer
I'm done! 👍

STAY AWAY FROM THIS ONE!!

My sister has one.

She's had it for 2 years, so far we've replaced:

1 Alternator
3 (yes, 3) Axles (cv joints keep going bad)
2 Struts
2 Engine mounts
2 headlight bulbs
1 cd player
1 window motor

The car currently sucks an insane amount of gas, has a crack in the exhaust manifold, some kind of weird transmission problem, and takes about 5 seconds of cranking to start.

We've had so many problems with them that we bought another one just for parts. We found out that both cv joints, both rear struts, and 1 of the engine mounts were already bad on the parts car, so we had to buy them separately when they went bad on my sisters.

Oh, and her key broke too.

These problems aren't too uncommon either, I work at a Hyundai dealership, so I see a decent amount of these and their Hyundai counterpart.

YSSMAN · Sep 18, 2008

homeforsummer
Corolla G6:

What the hell is that!?!?

It looks like my Celica with four doors and squared edges... Crazy!

This one looks a little better:

800px-Toyota-Corolla-2001-European-Facelift-Hatchback.jpg

===

Um, thoughts on Volkswagens:

I don't know if you guys received the Mexican-built models like what we had in the United States, but you have to be careful when you're picking around to get a good one. The MK3 models are known to have transmission issues like what I had, where they suddenly go out, no real explanation as to why. That, however, is not to say it is a bad car outright. They hold up pretty well, but they often get a little pissy in the rain (issues with faulty plug wires and distributor caps)... Otherwise, much like an Alfa, you've gotta know what you're getting into. As for the MK4 model, again, "avoid the early models" is the mantra here in the US. If all of the Boras and Golfs were screwed together in Wolfsburg, you've got far less to worry about than we did here.

Thought:

Did they sell the 200SX over there?

Perfect Balance · Sep 18, 2008

I vote Nissan Primera

ExigeEvan · Sep 18, 2008

Get an Almera! Sure it's not the coolest looking thing (though you sit surprisingly low) but my 1.4i gets me down motorways fine withabout 40mpg and 35mpg when mixing it up. It's been faultless except needing a new power steering hose for a slow leak (friend had same issue on his) but that was fixed free at service+MOT. And the room in the back! That said, it is quite a long car for a first car.

And before you look at anything get a good spread of insurance quotes. I didn't get anything below £1700 for a Focus as main, though my '99 1.4i Almera is cheaper to ensure than a '97 1.0ltr Polo with similair policies.

homeforsummer · Sep 18, 2008

YSSMAN
What the hell is that!?!?

It looks like my Celica with four doors and squared edges... Crazy!

That was the European E110 model that we got between about 1996 and 2000. The three door was the better looking of the two, and the one they based the Corolla WRC on. The picture you posted was the facelifted version of the 3dr which came out only a year or two before the completely new model. Personally I prefer the bug-eyed one, had a bit more character.

Unfortunately it was saddled with pathetic engines for it's whole lifespan, at least in Europe (when Japan were getting the 20v 170bhp E111 Levin). But it's a very reliable thing, as are all Corollas really!

I don't know if you guys received the Mexican-built models like what we had in the United States, but you have to be careful when you're picking around to get a good one... If all of the Boras and Golfs were screwed together in Wolfsburg, you've got far less to worry about than we did here.

Yup, all our Boras and Golfs were from Wolfsburg. The Bora is the better choice though, it seemed to come out better in customer satisfaction and reliability surveys for some reason, probably because they'd been producing the Mk4 Golf for a few years before the Bora was released so they'd ironed out the bugs. The Bora's also a bit more interesting than the Golf, and for whatever reason they're cheaper to insure and buy than the equivalent Golf. Nobody really buys sedans in the UK so they're dirt cheap.

Thought:

Did they sell the 200SX over there?

To me, that looks like a Nissan Sunny or Primera coupe thing with a Maxima front end. So in answer to the question, no. To the UK, a 200SX is what they called the S14 Silvia.

Perfect Balance
I vote Nissan Primera

Supposed to be good cars actually, I'd forgotten about them. Bit of a minicab reputation over here though.

ExigeEvan
Get an Almera!

I'd forgotten about the Almera actually, would have also been one of my suggestions. Pretty well screwed together and supposed to handle pretty well too.

stumpydino · Sep 18, 2008

youv got a fortune to spend on a first car theres a lot to choose from

look for something with 1.4 best if its pre 00s just to keep in the cheaper tax bracket though looking at your budget you can go for over
the nissans or vws people have mentioned are quite wise choices

Leonidae · Sep 18, 2008

primeras and almeras have issues with snapping their driveshafts. yes, the actual driveshafts, not CV joints.. especially the 2l models. how do I know? well, I drove one when it snapped, and know about three others that have had it happen to them. Around here, new driveshaft for it was around 600€.

ExigeEvan · Sep 18, 2008

Leonidae
primeras and almeras have issues with snapping their driveshafts. yes, the actual driveshafts, not CV joints.. especially the 2l models. how do I know? well, I drove one when it snapped, and know about three others that have had it happen to them. Around here, new driveshaft for it was around 600.

Never heard of that one. Can't be a hugely common issue as I'm sure it would be highlighted on www.honestjohn.co.uk. Though the body rot comments appear unfounded on mine and my mates Almera (and he lives within 200yards of the sea).

forza2.0 · Sep 18, 2008

Jondot
What ever might have given you that impression? *Whistles*...

Actually for me (as a named driver on mum's policy, fine...) with a provisional on a 2005 Astra 1.7 CDTi I've been quoted £1281 from SwiftCover. Could be worse.

Lets hope you dont crash and get investigated then.

My 17yr old friend got quoted nearly 4 grand on a 1.8 auto astra as a named driver. Currently hes driving about in a diesel focus as a named driver for £600.

Famine · Sep 18, 2008

If you plan on keeping it for 3 years... It needs to be cheap to fix and something you hate and want to neglect. You're going to run into something with it, in all likelihood, so you want a car that you hate (that way it won't bother you) and that, if you decide to fix it, won't cost you a bomb.

Insurance-wise, family saloons with weedy engines FTW. (Almost) All teenagers buy hatchbacks with weedy engines and (almost) all teenagers crash in their first 3 years, so a teen in a hatchback = massive insurance risk = massive premium. Bigger saloons are driven by older, more responsible (and hen-pecked) blokes and as such aren't crashed as often. The Focus Saloon is absolutely ideal in this instance - but try to think bigger and look at the 1.6 and 1.8 Mondeo as the insurance will be even less. Plus the Mondeo is bigger (more space for the ladies), will have more toys (including the ladies), be comfier and soak up the motorway miles (and have enough room with the rear seats down to "fit a double bed in").

£4k will get you a 54-plate Mk3 Mondeo. Really.

Jondot · Sep 18, 2008

Hmm, we seem to have an overwhelming surge of suggestions about the mk5 Fiesta... Which, rather appropriately, was the first car I got behind the wheel of (admittedly not on the road). I do like them, I must say.

Perfect Balance
STAY AWAY FROM THIS ONE!!

My sister has one.

She's had it for 2 years, so far we've replaced:

1 Alternator
3 (yes, 3) Axles (cv joints keep going bad)
2 Struts
2 Engine mounts
2 headlight bulbs
1 cd player
1 window motor

The car currently sucks an insane amount of gas, has a crack in the exhaust manifold, some kind of weird transmission problem, and takes about 5 seconds of cranking to start.

We've had so many problems with them that we bought another one just for parts. We found out that both cv joints, both rear struts, and 1 of the engine mounts were already bad on the parts car, so we had to buy them separately when they went bad on my sisters.

Oh, and her key broke too.

These problems aren't too uncommon either, I work at a Hyundai dealership, so I see a decent amount of these and their Hyundai counterpart.

Eeep. That's a little scary. I shall pass, methinks.

YSSMAN
What the hell is that!?!?

It looks like my Celica with four doors and squared edges... Crazy!

This one looks a little better:

===

Um, thoughts on Volkswagens:

I don't know if you guys received the Mexican-built models like what we had in the United States, but you have to be careful when you're picking around to get a good one. The MK3 models are known to have transmission issues like what I had, where they suddenly go out, no real explanation as to why. That, however, is not to say it is a bad car outright. They hold up pretty well, but they often get a little pissy in the rain (issues with faulty plug wires and distributor caps)... Otherwise, much like an Alfa, you've gotta know what you're getting into. As for the MK4 model, again, "avoid the early models" is the mantra here in the US. If all of the Boras and Golfs were screwed together in Wolfsburg, you've got far less to worry about than we did here.

Thought:

Did they sell the 200SX over there?

I think they're both pretty ugly, to be honest.

I think we only got the Wolfsburg VWs. I think. The only real problems we face are expensive spare parts, to be honest.

As said, we did get the 200SX, but not that 200SX. I can only assume that's an Almera with a coupe tailgate on the end.

ExigeEvan
Get an Almera! Sure it's not the coolest looking thing (though you sit surprisingly low) but my 1.4i gets me down motorways fine withabout 40mpg and 35mpg when mixing it up. It's been faultless except needing a new power steering hose for a slow leak (friend had same issue on his) but that was fixed free at service+MOT. And the room in the back! That said, it is quite a long car for a first car.

And before you look at anything get a good spread of insurance quotes. I didn't get anything below £1700 for a Focus as main, though my '99 1.4i Almera is cheaper to ensure than a '97 1.0ltr Polo with similair policies.

Hmm... It's not on my list of random car fetishes, but I shall take a look. Actually it's the perfect size in terms of what I'm after. I don't particularly want anything too small (which is what worries me about the Ka).

And yeah, that's what I'm doing insurance wise. The cheapest quote I've had so far is a somewhat suspicious £750 for a 2000 1.8 Mondeo Zetec. Seriously. The next up from that was £1300.

Look! It's pretty! And practical! And comfy! And under a grand!

In fact, end the discussions. I'll just go buy one of those.

Famine · Sep 18, 2008

Jondot
Look! It's pretty! And practical! And comfy! And under a grand!

In fact, end the discussions. I'll just go buy one of those.

Do it.

Dave A · Sep 18, 2008

The Mondeo is a very good car, my uncle has had one, a 98 reg and he has hardly had a blip with it. He did get a puncture once. A lot of regular Fords have been built with good quality, particularly the engines since the late 90's have been very reliable and did Ford no end of good reputation wise.

The Focus is a good choice but from my personal experience with mine, isn't as economical as I'd like. It can be very economical, but mine always seems to be on the brink of wanting to shoot into the power band, lazy driving in my 1.6 MK1 will eat petrol more so than in other similar cars I've owned. Other than that it's a great car though. The Fiesta, a safe choice, there's plenty around but the Mondeo is just as safe mechanically and cheaper to insure being a saloon and not a hatch. It might cost a bit more on petrol though.

MagpieRacer · Sep 18, 2008

Mondeos are great cars, my dad has had a 98 1.8 Ghia and a 2001 LX TD. Both were sweet as a nut and im actually considering a LX myself.

Jondot · Sep 18, 2008

Famine
If you plan on keeping it for 3 years... It needs to be cheap to fix and something you hate and want to neglect. You're going to run into something with it, in all likelihood, so you want a car that you hate (that way it won't bother you) and that, if you decide to fix it, won't cost you a bomb.

Insurance-wise, family saloons with weedy engines FTW. (Almost) All teenagers buy hatchbacks with weedy engines and (almost) all teenagers crash in their first 3 years, so a teen in a hatchback = massive insurance risk = massive premium. Bigger saloons are driven by older, more responsible (and hen-pecked) blokes and as such aren't crashed as often. The Focus Saloon is absolutely ideal in this instance - but try to think bigger and look at the 1.6 and 1.8 Mondeo as the insurance will be even less. Plus the Mondeo is bigger (more space for the ladies), will have more toys (including the ladies), be comfier and soak up the motorway miles (and have enough room with the rear seats down to "fit a double bed in").

£4k will get you a 54-plate Mk3 Mondeo. Really.

Heh, had the same thought... Yeah, I would love a Mondeo. My only concern is...

Dave A
The Mondeo is a very good car, my uncle has had one, a 98 reg and he has hardly had a blip with it. He did get a puncture once. A lot of regular Fords have been built with good quality, particularly the engines since the late 90's have been very reliable and did Ford no end of good reputation wise.

The Focus is a good choice but from my personal experience with mine, isn't as economical as I'd like. It can be very economical, but mine always seems to be on the brink of wanting to shoot into the power band, lazy driving in my 1.6 MK1 will eat petrol more so than in other similar cars I've owned. Other than that it's a great car though. The Fiesta, a safe choice, there's plenty around but the Mondeo is just as safe mechanically and cheaper to insure being a saloon and not a hatch. It might cost a bit more on petrol though.

That. Or rather, it will. But it's worth it. I think the mk3s have slightly more economical petrols too, as well as a nice 2.0 diesel.

ExigeEvan · Sep 18, 2008

Ah I'd have got a Mondeo if I'm honest, but my dad was buying an car at the same time and got a bargain when he bought the 2 cars together.

homeforsummer · Sep 18, 2008

Mondeo would be a good choice. Not my personal cup of tea, I'd be going for the Bora with your criteria, but I do like Fords so can't really fault that choice.

Ooh just one thing while I think about it, on the comfort thing, I've personally always found Ford seats (Fiestas, Escorts, Mondeos, Focii) a little uncomfortable on longer journeys (including my car) and so has my dad. We're both short-ish (5'9" and 5'6" respectively) so I think the driving position might not be best suited for a certain height of person. Under-thigh support is definitely a bit lacking.

Obviously it's not a hideous glaring problem (otherwise I wouldn't have had my Fiesta as long as I have) but it might be worth considering if you're my sort of height and planning on lots of longish journeys.

forza2.0 · Sep 18, 2008

Been ragging a mondeo ST lately with the V6 and its alright. Not as fast as I thought it would be, perhaps due to it being progressively fast. Handling is alright though.

First car ideas - suggestions?

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