GT 6 (False advertising)

[Soulfresh_ACV]

Hi all,

Anyone frustrated with the amount of unfulfilled GT 6 features that was mentioned but still not show up in the game?

I know it's impossible to have a legal class action given that it's never on the box but hey, it was at the press event as announced by Kaz and it's even on their website (press release/news link and screenshot just incase some decided to delete the article).


These are some of the promised features yet to even appear on the game (minus Vision GT cars):

• Players can create their own personalized custom car in the game.
• Cars will be continually added online
• More new tracks will continue to be provided online
• New Course Maker
• Online - Quick Match
• Community/Club/Race Organiser
• Real/Virtual "Edge Effect" Activity (Whatever that is!!!?)

I do hope they are still still in development and haven't been quietly cancelled by PD. PD seriously need to proactively update their website/blog about their development progress, at least on these promised features. God I hope that ProjectCars will be good and succeed when it comes out on PS4. Unless there is real competition, PD will never improve and consumer feedback will never be taken seriously. Reminds me of Konami's PES (Pro Evolution Soccer) series and how EA's Fifa literally took 60% of their customer after years of ignoring their customers.

 

[NOSWaster]

There is already a thread for this. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt6-could-we-have-cause-to-get-our-money-back.307986/

 

[loopyloogrrr]

There are a ton of threads like this mate.

 

[NOSWaster]

Also, points one and two have already been fulfilled.

We have at least 10 new cars.

• 3x Red Bull X cars
• 1x Red Bull Kart
• 2x Vision GT
• Mario Andretti's Hudson
• Toyota FT-1
• BMW M4
• 2x Delta Wings (?) (I don't think they were in there at launch)
• Soon: Lotus 97T

We have car customization:

• Custom Rear Wing
• Extra Body Parts
• Aero Kits
• Flat Floors
• Rims
• Paint
• Tuning options

Edit: Let's not forget that all of the added cars so far have cost us $0.00.

I'm really hoping we get Zahara. It looks fun.

 

[Soulfresh_ACV]

Apologies for missing these threads and not surprised at likeminded customers! Just had a quick scan at the link which basically means that PD have till the end of 2014. God I hope they're not going to target ProjectCars launch period to launch all these features. Who knows, maybe even a GT6.4 on the PS4.

 

[Famine]

These are some of the promised features yet to even appear on the game (minus Vision GT cars):

• Players can create their own personalized custom car in the game.
• Cars will be continually added online
• More new tracks will continue to be provided online
• New Course Maker
• Online - Quick Match
• Community/Club/Race Organiser
• Real/Virtual "Edge Effect" Activity (Whatever that is!!!?)

In order: Present from the start; Has already occurred; Not happened yet; Future update; Future Update; Future Update (probably the same as the previous one); That's exactly what Vision GT is, it says so in the image you posted.


And yes, there is an extant thread on suing whomever, as linked.

 

[Soulfresh_ACV]

Also, points one and two have already been fulfilled.

We have at least 10 new cars.

• 3x Red Bull X cars
• 1x Red Bull Kart
• 2x Vision GT
• Mario Andretti's Hudson
• Toyota FT-1
• BMW M4
• 2x Delta Wings (?) (I don't think they were in there at launch)
• Soon: Lotus 97T

We have car customization:

• Custom Rear Wing
• Extra Body Parts
• Aero Kits
• Flat Floors
• Rims
• Paint
• Tuning options

Edit: Let's not forget that all of the added cars so far have cost us $0.00.

I'm really hoping we get Zahara. It looks fun.

Ok. Point taken. I'll give credit to PD for not sucking every penny out of their customers for new content. But what made me buy GT6 was the course maker and online features.

 

[NOSWaster]

Ok. Point taken. I'll give credit to PD for not sucking every penny out of their customers for new content. But what made me by GT6 was the course maker and online features.

I admit, I was dearly hoping for the course maker! I'm disappointed we still don't have it yet.

 

[Soulfresh_ACV]

In order: Present from the start; Has already occurred; Not happened yet; Future update; Future Update; Future Update (probably the same as the previous one); That's exactly what Vision GT is, it says so in the image you posted.

And yes, there is an extant thread on suing whomever, as linked.

Sure. But I really do appreciate if PD would be a little bit more open on what's in progress. Don't have to be too specific on details in regards on what content is in development if it's an issue. Tease the fans a bit more often so that there will be ongoing interest in the game. It's no brainer PR and not a big ask this day and age!

I admit, I was dearly hoping for the course maker! I'm disappointed we still don't have it yet.

Yeah especially the GPS part of the Course Maker!!!

I literally started a list of tracks to create on Google Maps as soon as this was announced so that I can drive and use the app to log the GPS data.

 

[Famine]

Sure. But I really do appreciate if PD would be a little bit more open on what's in progress. Don't have to be too specific on details in regards on what content is in development if it's an issue. Tease the fans a bit more often so that there will be ongoing interest in the game. It's no brainer PR and not a big ask this day and age!

SCE, but yes.

The problem is they've tried that before. Whenever they tease the game, 80% of the comments are - and I quote directly from the GTPlanet blog comments section here - "RELEASE THE DAMN GAME". So they don't and then 80% of the comments are "I wish they'd tell us more". So they do and 80% of the comments are "RELEASE THE DAMN GAME".

Lather, rinse, repeat.

It would seem that the plan for GT6 was:
Announce a release date 6 months ahead of release (and stick to it).
Announce a full rundown of cars & tracks 1 month ahead of release - include things not in yet as "Coming in future updates".
Announce each update 2 days before it actually happens

Even doing their damnedest to avoid fuelling the hype train, the hype train is chugging on relentlessly, fuelled by the fans themselves. Which we all saw with GT4 anyway, so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise. Granted, there have been a few mis-speaks by personnel that haven't helped much.

It is, as they say, the greatest of sins not to live up to someone else's expectations of you.


On the bright side, one of those three-from-eight things we've had so far - the GPS Visualiser - could be a vital tool underpinning the GPS Course Maker (the function that tracks you around a real track is proof of concept of the function that tracks you around the real world to make a fake track). We have that now.

 

[Soulfresh_ACV]

SCE, but yes.

The problem is they've tried that before. Whenever they tease the game, 80% of the comments are - and I quote directly from the GTPlanet blog comments section here - "RELEASE THE DAMN GAME". So they don't and then 80% of the comments are "I wish they'd tell us more". So they do and 80% of the comments are "RELEASE THE DAMN GAME".

Lather, rinse, repeat.

It would seem that the plan for GT6 was:
Announce a release date 6 months ahead of release (and stick to it).
Announce a full rundown of cars & tracks 1 month ahead of release - include things not in yet as "Coming in future updates".
Announce each update 2 days before it actually happens

Even doing their damnedest to avoid fuelling the hype train, the hype train is chugging on relentlessly, fuelled by the fans themselves. Which we all saw with GT4 anyway, so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise. Granted, there have been a few mis-speaks by personnel that haven't helped much.

It is, as they say, the greatest of sins not to live up to someone else's expectations of you.

On the bright side, one of those three-from-eight things we've had so far - the GPS Visualiser - could be a vital tool underpinning the GPS Course Maker (the function that tracks you around a real track is proof of concept of the function that tracks you around the real world to make a fake track). We have that now.

Might be true that GPS Visualiser could be the foundations for the GPS Course Maker, but isn't the GPS Visualiser only for certain real-life-yet-to-release-cars that will have this built in and also certain tracks? Sounds to me like there might be some specific technologies required.

 

[Famine]

Might be true that GPS Visualiser could be the foundations for the GPS Course Maker, but isn't the GPS Visualiser only for certain real-life-yet-to-release-cars that will have this built in and also certain tracks?

Yes-ish and no-ish.

Think of GPS Visualiser in GT6 as "an app". Specifically, this "app" is the only one in the world capable of reading a certain type of data file. That data file is a result of vehicle CANBUS logging GPS data, wheel speed, throttle position, brake position, steering wheel position, gearing and engine speed data. This technology could, in theory, be applied to any car with CANBUS but isn't available at present on anything. In the next few months, devices that create this kind of data file will be added to Toyota's GT86 (specifically the Toyota GT86 "Racing", a track-focussed road car based on the GT86, only available in Japan and present in GT6), Nissan's Nismo GT-R and the Corvette C7 Stingray. There may be others following these cars. For the first phase, the only tracks in the real world and GT6 that will be supported will be Tsukuba, Fuji and Suzuka - though it seems likely Willow Springs won't be far behind, since that's where GTP's site owner @Jordan tested the technology last year. There may be others following these tracks.

What this means is that if an owner of a Toyota GT86 Racing, a Nissan Nismo GT-R or a Chevrolet Corvette C7 Stingray wishes to watch a completely interactive video of their laps of Tsukuba, Suzuka, Fuji or Willow Springs from a track day or manufacturer event, they have to buy a PS3 with GT6. For those of us who already have a PS3 with GT6, we can watch any data file these people - or the manufacturers of the cars - create and share without any further purchase. And we can race them to show them how rubbish they are


It is, though, proof of concept. If you watch a normal Data Logger replay you'll see that your position on the track is marked (in two dimensions). It will be the same for a GPS Visualiser replay and it will be necessary for a GPS Course Maker function to do this to create your track. While it seems that GPS Course Maker will rely solely on GPS data gathered from an app on your phone (or equivalent), it could, conceiveably, use wheel speed sensors to improve the accuracy in the same way that OEM Satellite Navigation does.

 

[Soulfresh_ACV]

Yes-ish and no-ish.

Think of GPS Visualiser in GT6 as "an app". Specifically, this "app" is the only one in the world capable of reading a certain type of data file. That data file is a result of vehicle CANBUS logging GPS data, wheel speed, throttle position, brake position, steering wheel position, gearing and engine speed data. This technology could, in theory, be applied to any car with CANBUS but isn't available at present on anything. In the next few months, devices that create this kind of data file will be added to Toyota's GT86 (specifically the Toyota GT86 "Racing", a track-focussed road car based on the GT86, only available in Japan and present in GT6), Nissan's Nismo GT-R and the Corvette C7 Stingray. There may be others following these cars. For the first phase, the only tracks in the real world and GT6 that will be supported will be Tsukuba, Fuji and Suzuka - though it seems likely Willow Springs won't be far behind, since that's where GTP's site owner @Jordan tested the technology last year. There may be others following these tracks.

What this means is that if an owner of a Toyota GT86 Racing, a Nissan Nismo GT-R or a Chevrolet Corvette C7 Stingray wishes to watch a completely interactive video of their laps of Tsukuba, Suzuka, Fuji or Willow Springs from a track day or manufacturer event, they have to buy a PS3 with GT6. For those of us who already have a PS3 with GT6, we can watch any data file these people - or the manufacturers of the cars - create and share without any further purchase. And we can race them to show them how rubbish they are

It is, though, proof of concept. If you watch a normal Data Logger replay you'll see that your position on the track is marked (in two dimensions). It will be the same for a GPS Visualiser replay and it will be necessary for a GPS Course Maker function to do this to create your track. While it seems that GPS Course Maker will rely solely on GPS data gathered from an app on your phone (or equivalent), it could, conceiveably, use wheel speed sensors to improve the accuracy in the same way that OEM Satellite Navigation does.

That will be awesome if it will be as you said. I guess we'll soon find out.

And what about the Community features. Read somewhere that it was initially in the game when it was first launched? Did you come across any updates might be in relation to this?


Just did a couple of online races after getting home late last night and thought to myself that if there was some sort of wager races where each participant will need to pay certain amount of in-game credits and the podium finishers will then split the combined amount based on final positions. Wouldn't that be fantastic?

 

[ghostrider135]

I think the problem here @Famine is that the GPS Visualizer is basically useless to a good lets be generous and honest here 99% of the GT6 players worldwide, Its a pointless exercise and in my opinion a way for PD to say look how clever we are, It adds nothing to the general experience of the game whatsoever to the huge vast majority of the people, I think we can all be honest here and admit that PD could have focused on something more rewarding for more people first, I say this as a long time GT fan having had every game since GT3 A-spec.

 

[Soulfresh_ACV]

I think the problem here @Famine is that the GPS Visualizer is basically useless to a good lets be generous and honest here 99% of the GT6 players worldwide, Its a pointless exercise and in my opinion a way for PD to say look how clever we are, It adds nothing to the general experience of the game whatsoever to the huge vast majority of the people, I think we can all be honest here and admit that PD could have focused on something more rewarding for more people first, I say this as a long time GT fan having had every game since GT3 A-spec.

Let's hope what @Famine said is a precursor to the GPS Course Maker and that it's not another showcase/show-off piece. Otherwise 99% of the GT6 community will not have any use of the GPS Visualiser which I couldn't agree more of what you said.

Oh and until there's real Gran Turismo competition on the same platform, don't expect PD to lift their game!

 

[Famine]

I think the problem here @Famine is that the GPS Visualizer is basically useless to a good lets be generous and honest here 99% of the GT6 players worldwide

Actually, until the manufacturers' dataloggers come out, it's useless to 100% of all people.

When they do, 100% of GT6 players can use it (assuming the sharing of data files) and 0% of the car buyers unless they buy GT6 to go with their five- (or six-) figure car and grand+ of datalogger (assuming they already have a PS3).

So really it's the car buyers who should be pissed that there isn't a cheaper way of watching their laps back, having already blown cash on a car, a datalogger and a trackday.

Its a pointless exercise and in my opinion a way for PD to say look how clever we are, It adds nothing to the general experience of the game whatsoever to the huge vast majority of the people, I think we can all be honest here and admit that PD could have focused on something more rewarding for more people first

Above I posited that getting the GPS tech to work in a controlled environment is a vital step to getting it to work to make your tracks for you from your phone's navigation system.

That's not necessarily the case - but it's what I'd do, rather than have all the complaints about the GPS course maker not working properly. And that would seem to be rewarding for every GT6 player old enough to have a mobile phone...

 

[ghostrider135]

Even when the manufacturer datalogging becomes available its still less than likely to add much at all for the general consensus of players based on the facts of.

1) Price of real life vehicle - In excess of £30,000 which lets be honest a great number of GT players cannot afford.
2) Tracks - Basically all the tracks it works with are in Asia so only open to people who live near there realistically.
3) The technology isn't actually for sale in a product compatible with GT6 yet so to add it now is a waste, It could have waited.

I hardly suspect someone who can afford the likes of lets be honest here (Fun cars) can really argue with the price of a PS3 and GT6, If you can afford to spend £30,000+ on a car £200 for a PS3 and GT6 is small change.

 

[Samus]

I still don't see how the GPS Data Logger and the GPS Course Creator are linked, software wise.

The GPS data logger works (or will work) because it already knows the exact track you're on. That means the GPS data the game interprets relates to the cars position and movements only. It doesn't need any data on the track, except which one it is.

The GPS course creator on the other hand needs to interpret data from the track/road/whatever and then there has to be software to generate that track, based on the geometry.

They're both using GPS data but the software that interprets the data is doing two very different things with it. You could use GPS data to generate a track (Like Bob's Track Builder can, IIRC) without needing software that can also use the GPS data to track and replay a car around that track.

 

[Sederholm]

I would have to agree with @Samus rather than @Famine that I don't see the obvious link.

The course maker I see as something that uses GPS to record a trail of points in space to create a track around.

The GPS data logger doesn't create the track, it just drags a model of the car around the track as recorded by a similar trail of points in space and time.
The tricky part in the data logger would be to overlay the data accurately over the track so the car isn't pulled offset to the track. Besides, wasn't the GPS data function demoed way back in GT5 days?

 

[FoRiZon]

We hope that atleast one sample GPS Data by Gazoo Racing is avalaiable online.

 

[meek]

@Soulfresh_ACV
this wager idea could be good but better not habe greedy sob's in the room lol
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/members/soulfresh_acv.257099/
@Samus
agreed, some are seeing too much into this IMHO.

 

[Haitauer]

Is this GPS data conversation still going on?

This is a feature heavily under development and id say the is no reason to waste time speculating on it until we see if there will be any actual use for it in this or in later iterations of Gran Turismo. It is understandable that they connect this feature to their collaboration with the developement of the GT86 / BRZ / FR-S -models as a marketing trick.

I personally think that we will see somekind of a mass product come out of this sooner or later - a mobile gps app or maybe a gps dongle of somekind. That said it might take years to develope this massive of a feature to the working stage as an allround logger or let alone as a course maker. I would love to scan some local tracks / street circuits with this, but i dont expect that to happen any time soon..

 

[meek]

Then why put it in the game so early? I am of the belief it will be helpful sooner than "anytime soon".

 

[Soulfresh_ACV]

@Soulfresh_ACV
this wager idea could be good but better not habe greedy sob's in the room lol
@Samus
agreed, some are seeing too much into this IMHO.

Really? That would add much more depth to the game instead of trying to grind against offline drones as I do not see PD going to improve the AI until Kaz retires. Give people the option whether to participate such events. The one major advantage of GT is the amount of vehicles to buy with in-game credits. The offline races with such poor AI is becoming obsolete and I'm sure a lot of people do not want to grind for a year just to get vehicles. Most of us work 925 and even kids old enough to play GT6 don't spend 24/7 for weeks to grind enough credits.

Imagine being able to participate such races after racking up necessary licenses requirements and a handful of grinding offline races just to have some credits for online races. This will add a new dimension to the game and a non-linear way of obtaining credits for your dream car. Make the career mode much more dynamic wouldn't you say? If you're short on credits, than participate offline events etc. Makes business sense for PD as well since they already implemented micro transactions into the game. Maybe give 1 million in-game credits when you obtained the super license as an incentive to get people started when they reach that stage. This also helps ensure that people have reach a certain degree of experience to ensure minimum quality of online races. But capped each participants wager to a maximum of 100K in-game credits. 16 cars races will then amount to a total of 1.6 mill where final positions will be winner gets 700k, 2nd - 400k, 3rd - 250k, 4th - 150k and 5th - 100k.


At the end of the day, isn't this the direction that PD had been trying to distinguish themselves as a game for car enthusiasts? What better way to earn credit this way. In GT6 current form, I don't think I want to be repeating the Red Bull Challenge races a hundred times just to rack up 20 mil. for a Jaguar xj13 and definitely not spending $130+ real money to buy enough GT6 credits.

 

[bjosim]

I posited

First time I've ever seen someone actually use that word in a sentence.

 

[zooburner]

Hi all,

Anyone frustrated with the amount of unfulfilled GT 6 features that was mentioned but still not show up in the game?

I know it's impossible to have a legal class action given that it's never on the box but hey, it was at the press event as announced by Kaz and it's even on their website (press release/news link and screenshot just incase some decided to delete the article).


These are some of the promised features yet to even appear on the game (minus Vision GT cars):

• Players can create their own personalized custom car in the game.
• Cars will be continually added online
• More new tracks will continue to be provided online
• New Course Maker
• Online - Quick Match
• Community/Club/Race Organiser
• Real/Virtual "Edge Effect" Activity (Whatever that is!!!?)

I do hope they are still still in development and haven't been quietly cancelled by PD. PD seriously need to proactively update their website/blog about their development progress, at least on these promised features. God I hope that ProjectCars will be good and succeed when it comes out on PS4. Unless there is real competition, PD will never improve and consumer feedback will never be taken seriously. Reminds me of Konami's PES (Pro Evolution Soccer) series and how EA's Fifa literally took 60% of their customer after years of ignoring their customers.

I think probably the biggest sadness for me in all this is that when, in a few years the servers go offline we wont be left with the updated game on re-install, we will be left with the limp lettuce of a game that came on the disc.

I think in future I will buy all games based on how they are at release, not how they are after many upgrades.

Still waiting for the promised updates, the ones so far have been cosmetic at best and haven't improved (in my opinion) the game as a whole at all.

Z

 

[Nurburgthing.]

.......there is definitely a lot of unfinished business on the PS3, and I urge you take a look back at the iterations of GT and GT2 side-by-side; the difference is amazing. You’ll see a similar step change between GT5 and GT6.

​

To a certain extent, I agree with the OP. A lot of broken promises and a lack of solid news / information has seen GT6 shelved in my house.

Until there is a substantial update featuring most (if not all) the things we SHOULD have by now, that's probably where it will stay.

#letdown

 

[YukinoSuzuka]

It's more false advertising from the eyes of the Spanish people in Ronda. They've got four wonderfull days where their village promoted during the world premiere of GT6, they've named a street (hiking path?) to founder Kaz, they got the promise as well and there, there it's a real shame they didn't hold their word.

As far I can imagine PD could have problems with the PS3 specs and the stuff they want to put in gt6, but if they had problems with that... why don't they say anything ??

I'm really concerned about PD, gt6 is the worst game they've ever made and if they continu like this, GT7 will definitly be the last gt game ever. False advertising, non-promises and bad-communication, what a sad way to kill your own francise !

 

[research]

.... there have been a few mis-speaks by personnel that haven't helped much.

Ohhhh no... Famine, you do not truly believe that Taku really blurted out "Monthly track DLC" as something he just conjured up in his head.

.. It is, as they say, the greatest of sins not to live up to someone else's expectations of you.

I fail to see where anyone is talking about expectations from anywhere outside of PD. These threads that are now constantly popping up are about specific features and promises from Polyphony Digital. No one else. C'mon man. It's got to be wearing on you to have to come in here and defend like that.

 

[Famine]

Ohhhh no... Famine, you do not truly believe that Taku really blurted out "Monthly track DLC" as something he just conjured up in his head.

No. That's why I didn't say that.

I fail to see where anyone is talking about expectations from anywhere outside of PD.

SCE.

These threads that are now constantly popping up are about specific features and promises from Polyphony Digital.

SCE.

I'm not being hard on you here, even though it looks like I am. I just want folk to remember that PD make it, SCE sell it and SCE divisions (SCEA, SCEE, SCEI) advertise it. It rankles when people say "PD say this" when it's SCEA/E/I that say it and "PD take our money" when it's SCE that get the profits and set PD's budget independently of sales.

C'mon man. It's got to be wearing on you to have to come in here and defend like that.

Not really.

If people want to claim that there's "false advertising", they need to demonstrate that there's been advertising that is false. "We've not had 5 of the 8 things in future updates yet" isn't demonstrating that there's been advertising that is false, it's demonstrating that the undefined schedule listed everywhere by SCE is less satisfactory now than it was at the time of purchase, which is merely a shortcoming on behalf of the expectant.

The claim on the US box (as listed in the Class Action thread) of Gameplay recording and Youtube uploads is an advertisement that is not true. That works for me and, as I said in that thread, that's one to take to the lawyers if you see fit to do so. An SCEA representative saying "Zahara will be available at the end of February", or "monthly track DLC" isn't, unless it was also included in promotional material (which it wasn't) - though it is something SCEA will need to address internally. I'd be happy for you to take it to the lawyers too, but I'd advise against it because it's a non-starter - though a shyster lawyer will happily take your money to take the case.

It turns out that Kazunori Yamauchi (as translated by Translator-san) in his capacity as VP of SCEI also made the monthly track DLC comment in a presentation well before the release - as posted in the Epic Whining/Crying thread. As I said there:

The slide itself says something slightly different to the translation too, so it could be that someone on the stage mis-spoke and my ability to listen in Japanese isn't good enough to say who.

However the fact it was also said by SCEA's Taku Imasaki (as "at least one track every month") but not included in any press releases I'm familiar with implies that there was a tentative schedule well before launch that, somewhere before the November reveal, has failed. I don't know why.

Which addresses your first sentence neatly. It appears to have been the plan before May's tease reveal, but the plan foundered before November's full reveal - for undetermined reasons - and was never adopted in official press or promotional material.