How turning off all aids made me a better, faster driver.

  • Thread starter Sarkazmo
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I've been playing since GT1 and I also play a ton of other driving games. When I started out with driving games I used some of the aids but in a fairly short time I turned them off and with each “off” there was a period of adjustment, sometimes frustrating, sometimes not so bad, but always some adjustment was made in my driving style. I got faster.

I was down to Driving Line and ABS1 until about 8 or 9 months ago when I turned off the Driving Line for good. I went off the track a lot. But I adjusted my driving style and truly learned the courses I was racing. Since I had no bright, glowing graphical cue for my braking points I paid more attention to the details on and around the track for my braking points. After a little while I noticed something. I was getting even faster. Then I realized just how much I relied on that stupid line. It wasn't the fastest way around the track and the colors lie to you. Even though I was already trying to ignore those cues and use the line solely to see the corners better I was relying subconsciously on it far more than I thought. After I turned the line off I realized I could see the corners just fine.

Down to just the ABS=1 crutch. This was the hardest of all to drop. In fact I never did succeed in dropping it until GT6. For me, and I guess many others, ABS0 was just too sensitive in GT5 so all we did was lock up, spin out, and plow into barriers and thus ABS1 became the standard. One can only take so much frustration, right? With GT6 it was my goal to drop this final crutch. GT6's brake model seemed so much better to me so I gave ABS0 a dedicated effort and I'm now (and have been since shortly after launch) driving completely aid free. And I've gotten faster still. Since I couldn't just slam the brake, relying on the ABS to keep all four wheels turning yet slowing me I really had to make use of the speedo and distance markers to judge my braking points and braking a little earlier than I normally would in order to keep the wheels from locking. The thing is even though I was braking earlier I was still cutting time off my laps. I found that instead of the breakneck approach of braking at the absolute last instant with ABS, pedal crushed, turning in at the edge of tire grip I was arriving at the turn in point, car stable and well sorted, which allowed me to be able to apex better and power out of the turn more smoothly to gain a higher top speed on the straight that followed. I was getting faster by going slower.

The helpers didn't actually help. At the time they seemed like they did because they made it easier. But in all actuality what they did was muffle the individual car experience, sterilize the experience of the track, camouflage bad driving technique and reinforce bad driving habits.

Many of you are more casual about Gran Turismo and will read this, say “Nah,” and go back to playing the way you have been and that's just fine. It's your game and you should play it the way you want. But if you're serious about becoming a better driver, this is what worked for me, maybe it'll work for you.

Sark
 
I'm making the same transition. Turned driving line of yesterday. The last week or so I began to make notice of my speed through corners and slowly finding my breaking points. I've never really followed the colors of the breaking line, because it, as you also mention, is way wrong. Also the suggested gear is wrong at times.

But!... I'm not feeling concious about finding breaking points. After disableling the driving line, when did you become conscious about the breaking points? If you know what I mean :)

And you're completely right. You slowly transform into a better driver if you have the patience and dedication. And a wheel!
 
The suggested gear is wrong more often than not and the driving line will slow you down in places where you do not need to slow. It is helpful on tracks you haven't driven much before and of course during night races.

I am still using the line myself but really should turn it off. I guess I got in the habit of using it when I started playing Forza and just never turned it off. I do not really rely on it other than in some cases at night but I can see that it is slowing me down at times and should be turned off.
 
I'm currently doing the same thing atm, last night I turned off that red "suggested" gear indicator that flashes when a breaking point is coming up, I found that I was always waiting to see the flashing red out of the corner of my eye, then my brain correlated that to "need to brake or slow down not long after the flashing red". Taking off the indicator has made me a lot faster, I am now relying on braking points and line and my concentration is a lot better without always sub-conscience waiting for the flashing red.

Now I am only down to ABS 1 and that is it.
 
Excellent post, excellent insight. I am not a GT novice but by no means am I an expert. I don't do too many of my own mods, mostly tweak others; I just like to get in the car and drive.

In regard to the driving line you said, "Even though I was already trying to ignore those cues and use the line solely to see the corners better." Me too. I only use it to get to know the tracks. It is the first aid I turn off. Funny thing though...I turned it off after one lap around the Nurburghring and was driving it way better than other tracks that I left it on for many many laps.

I find the the tire marks(area that is darker) on the tracks are the best line. Is it because that area has more grip than other spots?

I'm not feeling concious about finding breaking points.(...) when did you become conscious about the breaking points?

As for finding braking spots^, to me it all comes down to each specific car having it's own specific point. Just find a marker on the side of the track: meter sticks, the curbs, walls, people, basically anything you can spot every time you approach the turn and try and hit your brakes at that exact mark, this will allow you to figure out exactly where that point is. Some are tough like if it's just after the mark, I find sometimes I want to hit 'em too early, and vice versa if I am supposed to hit 'em let's say at 115m out. Also be cognizant of entry speed, if you are going in faster or slower than normal you will need to adjust. My problem now is finding the smooth transition from, braking to turning to accelerating at the apex. Fun stuff though.
 
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The suggested gear is wrong more often than not and the driving line will slow you down in places where you do not need to slow. It is helpful on tracks you haven't driven much before and of course during night races.

I am still using the line myself but really should turn it off. I guess I got in the habit of using it when I started playing Forza and just never turned it off. I do not really rely on it other than in some cases at night but I can see that it is slowing me down at times and should be turned off.

If it's on, your eyes are seeing it. If your eyes are seeing it then your brain is processing information about it. It is having an effect on you whether you're aware of it or not.

Sark
 
All off definitely makes you faster. ABS 0 is just a novelty or something to brag about though. Can't really see much improvement in times having it off. The only purpose to turn it off for me is to enjoy old cars more realistically, but it doesn't give me an advantage at all.
 
The sad thing when I saw this thread was a friend of mine who leads a familiar club that most people know as ADR made a thread similar to this and got hated upon. Honestly no AIDS is super realistic and makes it more fun to drive. I just wish I had a G Force seat where it feels like I'm really driving!
 
As for finding braking spots^, to me it all comes down to each specific car having it's own specific point. Just find a marker on the side of the track: meter sticks, the curbs, walls, people, basically anything you can spot every time you approach the turn and try and hit your brakes at that exact mark, this will allow you to figure out exactly where that point is. Some are tough like if it's just after the mark, I find sometimes I want to hit 'em too early, and vice versa if I am supposed to hit 'em let's say at 115m out. Also be cognizant of entry speed, if you are going in faster or slower than normal you will need to adjust. My problem now is finding the smooth transition from, braking to turning to accelerating at the apex. Fun stuff though.

Breaking.. Braking.. Haha :D I better just go to bed. It's 3:35 AM here in Denmark.

Yes, I must force my self to focus on finding "indicators" on the side of the track. Too bad for me I almost only drive in the Nordschleife :P Oh well, might as well just go sightseeing in the Schwimmwagen, Subaru 360, Fiat 500 etc. to look at the scenery and find things beside trees... "I'll have to brake at the fifth oak tree" is not gonna work..
 
My problem now is finding the smooth transition from, braking to turning to accelerating at the apex.

For me it's a problem of the waiting til I'm fully turned in to the apex before applying throttle. It all comes down to patience. If I'm on edge, trying to make another tenth on the clock, I'll make it worse by losing my patience and accelerating too soon, going wide, and slowing my lap time instead of improving it. If I calm down and wait the speed comes and I flow through the turns more fluidly.

Sark
 
If it's on, your eyes are seeing it. If your eyes are seeing it then your brain is processing information about it. It is having an effect on you whether you're aware of it or not.

Sark
Yeah, I know I can tell that at times it is making me slow either when I do not need to or more than I need to. It depends on the track to though. I would like to think that I am able to ignore it but may not be the case.

I was running in a lobby on Forza 2 one night and one of my buddies came into the room along with several other people. The host had left and I ended up in charge of the lobby. Anyway my buddy is very fast but seemed to be having a hard time moving up in position during the races. I was winning every race and always expecting him to be up there battling me for the lead but it never happened. He would be finishing 5th or 6th each time and I knew he was faster than the other guys in the room and fast enough to make me drive my best to get a win.

Anyway after the race I asked him if something was wrong with his setup and he said that the driving line was forced off in the lobby and that was causing him to miss his braking point. I was surprised by this for two reasons 1 I had not even noticed that it wasn't there during 2-3 hours of racing and 2 I thought he would not need it.

So in this case he was slower without it for sure, I may have very well been faster or maybe the same as always. Not having it on surely did not hurt my races any,

I will try turning it off the next time I go out and see it I can tell any difference in my lap times, unfortunately there are no leader boards and I can only remember a few of my lap times in a few cars so will be a bit hard to tell
 
All off definitely makes you faster. ABS 0 is just a novelty or something to brag about though. Can't really see much improvement in times having it off. The only purpose to turn it off for me is to enjoy old cars more realistically, but it doesn't give me an advantage at all.

As I said, to each his own, but I find that I'm stopping in a shorter distance now if that's possible, maybe I'm not and it just seems like it. ABS1 seemed to cause some of my cars to take forever to slow down but with ABS0 they're much more manageable.

Sark
 
For me it's a problem of the waiting til I'm fully turned in to the apex before applying throttle. It all comes down to patience. If I'm on edge, trying to make another tenth on the clock, I'll make it worse by losing my patience and accelerating too soon, going wide, and slowing my lap time instead of improving it. If I calm down and wait the speed comes and I flow through the turns more fluidly.

Sark

Ding! Ding! Ding! Couldn't have said better myself. Or by breaking that split second to late, turning in at the same time, and trying to power through it, ughh, I have blown great lap times too many times doing that. Patience truly is a great racing virtue to have.

Breaking.. Braking.. Haha :D I better just go to bed. It's 3:35 AM here in Denmark.

Fixed it. My "E" key is being a punk. it's only after i hit the "R" key too. Why does life hate me? J/K Life rocks!

Go to bed after just one more race. ok just one more. ok now this is my last race for sure. Damn it the suns coming up. Ahhhh the life of a GTer.
 
As I said, to each his own, but I find that I'm stopping in a shorter distance now if that's possible, maybe I'm not and it just seems like it. ABS1 seemed to cause some of my cars to take forever to slow down but with ABS0 they're much more manageable.

Sark

I did some testing with various brake settings and with ABS 0 and ABS 1 right after I got the game. I was using a HSV on SSX getting up to about 150mph then checking the stopping distance with various settings. I found that if I used ABS 0 I could stop about 15 feet shorter than if I used ABS 1 provided of course that i did not lock the wheels.
It seems that after the 1.02 patch though that the brakes are touchier and lock easier but then I was driving last night with ABS 0 and TCS 0 and had no issues at all with the brakes, I did not lock up a single time but I was using RH tires
 
Fixed it. My "E" key is being a punk. it's only after i hit the "R" key too. Why does life hate me? J/K Life rocks!

No no, you got it right :D I got it wrong. I'm Danish, tired (I have to correct half of my words, because I begin writing half Danish now) aaaaaand kinda in love with Breaking Bad.

It is "braking" when applying the brakes, isn't it? :P
 
All off definitely makes you faster. ABS 0 is just a novelty or something to brag about though. Can't really see much improvement in times having it off. The only purpose to turn it off for me is to enjoy old cars more realistically, but it doesn't give me an advantage at all.

I guess i never checked but old cars have it turned on when you first get them? In Minnesota ice and snow I can't stand to have ABS in my real life car so I guess I never thought it would be on to begin with.

No no, you got it right :D I got it wrong. I'm Danish, tired (I have to correct half of my words, because I begin writing half Danish now) aaaaaand kinda in love with Breaking Bad.

It is "braking" when applying the brakes, isn't it? :P

Now you got me confused and I don't even speak danish ;). I'm losing my mind. half my keys are jacked, I let my kid just beat the crap out of this keyboard, i find keys laying all over the floor after she's done. $15 wireless logitech, thing has been through hell and still works.
 
I guess i never checked but old cars have it turned on when you first get them?
I think all cars have TCS 5 and ABS 1 when you get in them and it seems they remember when you change it. I know I was driving one car, I set the TCS to 0 and then I got in another car and the TCS was 5 again but when I got back in the first car it was 0. I haven't paid enough attention to confirm this but it seems that the setting stays with the car and if so is a very good thing as I like to use a bit of TCS on the high powered RWD beasts and no TCS on many of the other cars.
 
No no, you got it right :D I got it wrong. I'm Danish, tired (I have to correct half of my words, because I begin writing half Danish now) aaaaaand kinda in love with Breaking Bad.

It is "braking" when applying the brakes, isn't it? :P

Yes it is. So my mind was working and my keyboard isn't as bad as I am apparently leading on. I guess since I didn't see the red squiggle line I just ran with it. I gotta get back to the track. Brands Hatch is calling my name. Or maybe the MOON! Jees stupid cone challenge.
 
I think all cars have TCS 5 and ABS 1 when you get in them and it seems they remember when you change it. I know I was driving one car, I set the TCS to 0 and then I got in another car and the TCS was 5 again but when I got back in the first car it was 0. I haven't paid enough attention to confirm this but it seems that the setting stays with the car and if so is a very good thing as I like to use a bit of TCS on the high powered RWD beasts and no TCS on many of the other cars.

Each car should remember specific settings, at least it did in gt5. Ive only had gt6 for two days.
 
As I said, to each his own, but I find that I'm stopping in a shorter distance now if that's possible, maybe I'm not and it just seems like it. ABS1 seemed to cause some of my cars to take forever to slow down but with ABS0 they're much more manageable.

Sark

I've found that there are more variables in GT6. In GT5, if you turned off ABS, you had to lower the brake bias in order to avoid lock up, thus affecting your braking distances. In GT6, you can get away with having the brake bias at 5 with ABS off, but with stock brakes. With high performance brakes, even at 2 you get lock up. I've also noticed that tires play a huge role in this. As a Comfort Soft user in most cases, ABS 0 makes it trickier to keep the brakes from locking.

With ABS 1 I can hit the brakes and keep them, giving me the best stopping distance with minimum locking. when I turn it off, I have to be careful not to lock the brakes so I give myself more distance when braking. It affects my lap times, but it doesn't really matter since it's only slightly.
 
I've found that there are more variables in GT6. In GT5, if you turned off ABS, you had to lower the brake bias in order to avoid lock up, thus affecting your braking distances. In GT6, you can get away with having the brake bias at 5 with ABS off, but with stock brakes. With high performance brakes, even at 2 you get lock up. I've also noticed that tires play a huge role in this. As a Comfort Soft user in most cases, ABS 0 makes it trickier to keep the brakes from locking.

With ABS 1 I can hit the brakes and keep them, giving me the best stopping distance with minimum locking. when I turn it off, I have to be careful not to lock the brakes so I give myself more distance when braking. It affects my lap times, but it doesn't really matter since it's only slightly.

Fair enough, Race Brakes certainly are very touchy, and I even have one car I'm considering running ABS1 on due to it's extremely sensitive, lock prone brakes. I enjoy the challenge and rewards of ABS0 and you enjoy the stability and consistency of ABS1. In the end we're both enjoying what we're doing so that's all that matters.

Sark
 
I am down to just the gear indicator and ABS-1. Im working on the gear indicator now and ABS will come once I get a progressive brake spring.

Just my 2cents on racing brakes, if you can lock up with normal brakes, racing breaks have no use. Unless GT6 implemented brake fade.
 
I am down to just the gear indicator and ABS-1. Im working on the gear indicator now and ABS will come once I get a progressive brake spring.

Just my 2cents on racing brakes, if you can lock up with normal brakes, racing breaks have no use. Unless GT6 implemented brake fade.

Well the racing brakes do have a use if you are using pedals, especially ones like I use. I have the Fanatec club sport pedals which use a pressure trigger and requires a good bit more pressure on the pedal to get the amount of braking that you would get with less effort using racing brakes.

I have played around with the brake bias settings and there really does not seem to be much difference in them. In my testing I mentioned earlier I tired settings of 5:5 0:0 10:10 0:10 and 10:0 in every case the stopping distance was the same and the amount of pressure required on the pedal was the same. I was really hoping that increasing the numbers here would require less foot pressure on the pedal but no change, I was also hoping that I could fine tune the lock up point when ABS is off but could not notice a difference between 0 -5 -10.

All tests were done in test drive mode from the garage so either the bias does not work from there or not at all not sure which.
 
I had all assists off in GT5, except ABS set to 1. But now in GT6 the ABS has gone too. It's so much fun driving without it. I've not tested whether I'm faster or slower though, just having fun. :)

However, there is still one aid that I use unfortunately. One that you may not even realize is having a subconcious effect on many players. What is it? It is...wait for it...the braking warning! What's that? I hear some of you say. It's the red flashing light that tells you that you need to brake. WHAT? I hear you say again! It's the suggested gear, it also doubles as a brake warning when it starts to flash.

I never even realized I was using it until I turned it off. Made me realize that I've never really worked up any of the tracks as regards braking points. All I had been doing was waiting until it flashed & then braking sometime after depending on the corner. The strange thing is, whenever I turn it off I'm slower! I guess I'll just have to go cold turkey at some point & turn the darn thing off. :lol:
 
Still have my ABS 1, still studying new tracks, those I still use driving line.
The older ones I pretty much ignored them already.
But you are right, turning the lines off can definitely improve.
I didn't realize I can switch off the brakes warning light, never really paid attention to it either way lol
 
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