I got an improvised way to make the engine tuning better

  • Thread starter dudejo
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dudejo

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After much spare time, I came up with this to spice up the engine upgrades

Code: 
Tires
-----

When using Sports class tires, racing brakes must also be equipped.


Engine Stage Requisites
-----------------------

These rules determine the various secondary parts that must be used when using a particular
upgrade stage. Parts other than the ones indicated may not be added.

If the maximum stage is lower than those indicated in the list, apply the highest quality
parts for that stage and downgrade for every lower stage.

The Supercharger is considered one Stage above the highest NA Stage, unless the highest
NA Stage generates more engine torque. Examples at [1].

The Original Turbo uses the same parts as Turbo Stage 3.

Racing Chips cannot be used on vehicles built before 1980.

If a particular part is not available, it can be ignored.


NA Stage 1    : Racing Chip, Carbon Driveshaft

NA Stage 2    : Sports Exhaust, Racing Chip, Sports Clutch,
        Sports Flywheel, Carbon Driveshaft

NA Stage 3    : Semi-Racing Exhaust, Racing Chip, Twin-Plate Clutch,
        Semi-Racing Flywheel, Carbon Driveshaft

Supercharger  : Racing Exhaust, Racing Chip, Triple-Plate Clutch,
        Racing Flywheel, Carbon Driveshaft


Turbo Stage 1 : Racing Chip

Turbo Stage 2 : Sports Exhaust, Racing Chip

Turbo Stage 3 : Semi-Racing Exhaust, Sports Intercooler, Racing Chip

Turbo Stage 4 : Racing Exhaust, Racing Intercooler, Racing Chip

[1]
Corvette Z06 '00
Corvette ZR-1 '90
GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
Mercury XR-7 '67
Mustang GT '05
Viper GTS '99
Viper SRT 10 '05

The main idea is to combine the engine upgrades into kits that provide a tangible difference in behavior. Also, parts that would logically be used for the tuning level are used.

Turbos (except the Original) don't use drivetrain improvements to compensate for the lack of simulated turbo lag (throttle that doesn't respond instantly).

The clutches are distributed based on the upgrade stage's added torque. For example, the Supercharger gets the Triple-Plate because it generally gives the most torque.
 
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You do realize that Semi-Racing Exhaust works better with a Supercharger right. You lose HP using a racing exhaust.

Other then that, I like the kit arrangement. Now all you need to do is run a race series using it.
 
Great job Dudejo, I rarely find a member who thinks that cheaper parts do have some benefit towards the expensive ones; usually most GT4 players just buy the parts of highest level without caring about engine size, specifications, level, etc.

As a fan of Alto Works RS-Z I can confirm that small engines will produce better results if you install Sports flywheel instead of Racing one (on a fully tuned car). Difference is very small and cannot be seen with a naked eye but that's why we have simple but effective Data Logger. I can also confirm that muffler combos will affect car's handling, not just sound and power. That's something I have noticed on a Lancia Delta (midly tuned) during my WHHC participation.

Still, I haven't go that far like you did, so if you can show us some tests and proves (for e.g., what would happen if you were to install Racing (instead of Sport) Muffler on Na Stage 1 upgrade group) this would be the best way to ultimately finalize doubts some members still have.
 
Matej
Great job Dudejo, I rarely find a member who thinks that cheaper parts do have some benefit towards the expensive ones; usually most GT4 players just buy the parts of highest level without caring about engine size, specifications, level, etc.

As a fan of Alto Works RS-Z I can confirm that small engines will produce better results if you install Sports flywheel instead of Racing one (on a fully tuned car). Difference is very small and cannot be seen with a naked eye but that's why we have simple but effective Data Logger. I can also confirm that muffler combos will affect car's handling, not just sound and power. That's something I have noticed on a Lancia Delta (midly tuned) during my WHHC participation.

Still, I haven't go that far like you did, so if you can show us some tests and proves (for e.g., what would happen if you were to install Racing (instead of Sport) Muffler on Na Stage 1 upgrade group) this would be the best way to ultimately finalize doubts some members still have.
Click to expand...

As for this last bit, I can at least add some experience from GT3: Remember the Vitz Cup in Professional Hall? I slapped EVERY upgrade EVAR on that car, then when I started a race, the lag was so bad, the car wouldn't move at all. I had to drop the stage 3 turbo and go back to a semi-racing exhaust.
 
BH-21
You do realize that Semi-Racing Exhaust works better with a Supercharger right. You lose HP using a racing exhaust.
Click to expand...

Only on certain cars. The 20V 4A-GE Toyotas and the Caterham are all that come to mind though.

The fun part, at least on the Yotas, is what the racing exhaust does to the power curve. If we had another 3000rpm or so to play with the racing exhaust would actually be stupidly effective (and fun) thanks to what it does. Unfortunately since we don't get that extra RPM, it just cuts off before it ever even approaches peak.
 
Ignignoc N Err
As for this last bit, I can at least add some experience from GT3: Remember the Vitz Cup in Professional Hall? I slapped EVERY upgrade EVAR on that car, then when I started a race, the lag was so bad, the car wouldn't move at all. I had to drop the stage 3 turbo and go back to a semi-racing exhaust.
Click to expand...
Yep, and similar situation can be seen with Alto Works too. Turbo Stage 3 in combination with Racing Mufflers would produce quite a big lag at the beginning of each race, thus you were required to rev as soon as possible in order to launch yourself in a proper way. However, applying the Semi-Racing mufflers...
BH-21
You lose HP using a racing exhaust.
Click to expand...
...increases general HP values and also reduces lag to a minimum point (yet, it's a simple proof of quoted statement).

I still remember how my Alto used to be 0.500 seconds faster on a Test Machine events only due to simple usage of cheaper parts (Semi Mufflers and Sport clutch).
Moreover, it's much easier to see such differences in GT3 as the both Data Logger and Ghost Replay of previous run are available on Test Machine events. Sadly, GT4 (emphasis is still on Test Machine) doesn't have neither of these options. :(
 
In my experience, GT4 doesn't simulate the lowered low-RPM torque of a high-flow exhaust or even the lighter flywheels.

I drag-raced both a NA and Turbo small-displacement engine using the stock and Racing exhaust systems. Then, I shifted EARLY on purpose.

The result, with both cars, was a faster quarter-mile with the Racing exhaust. Combining the Racing exhaust with a Racing flywheel yielded an even faster car.

Concluding that the minor parts aren't simulated properly, this lead me to create this list. Since the powerbands of the NA/Turbo stages are much more obvious, I tried combining the different parts so they would match with those powerbands.

While it doesn't give the optimal HP for the particular stages, it also makes getting a superior stage that much better, since it comes with better secondary mods.
 
dudejo
In my experience, GT4 doesn't simulate the lowered low-RPM torque of a high-flow exhaust or even the lighter flywheels.

I drag-raced both a NA and Turbo small-displacement engine using the stock and Racing exhaust systems. Then, I shifted EARLY on purpose.

The result, with both cars, was a faster quarter-mile with the Racing exhaust. Combining the Racing exhaust with a Racing flywheel yielded an even faster car.

Concluding that the minor parts aren't simulated properly, this lead me to create this list. Since the powerbands of the NA/Turbo stages are much more obvious, I tried combining the different parts so they would match with those powerbands.

While it doesn't give the optimal HP for the particular stages, it also makes getting a superior stage that much better, since it comes with better secondary mods.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends on individual's opinion then. I did noticed small differences and while I can agree that minor parts aren't simulated in a way they should be, I wouldn't go to far to claim that they aren't simulated at all. But yes, differences are microscopic (cca 0.7 km/h faster with Semi Muffler then with Racing - fully tuned Alto Works) and probably not too relevant (sadly).
 
Now, you said you did some extensive testing, dudejo, but what testing regimen did you employ? I've got a pretty intricate (probably unnecessary) method, based upon your charting, to explore what parts give what kind of benefits, including combinations. It was actually inspired by my participation in BH-21's classic car grand prix last year. I got a few extra parts, tested each to find out what gave the best boosts, then went with what suited me.
 
My last test involved a Honda S800, stock everything at base. Then I added a Stage 2 Turbo to shift the peak power away from the low range.

I then went on the Las Vegas quarter-mile. I drag-raced it while never letting the RPMs go above 4000 RPM (except in 4th gear because I ran out of gears to shift).

I repeated this a couple of times, adding the Racing Exhaust and then the Racing Flywheel. I GAINED speed at low RPMs with every part I added.

Logically, the exact opposite should have been happening. Those parts are supposed to be optimized for high-RPM operation, which I wasn't doing at all.

EDIT : I re-did the same method using the Honda Beat Version F 1992. Except this time, I stayed with the stock engine while only adding the Racing Exhaust and Racing Flywheel.

Also, I shifted at 4000 RPM for first gear and 3000 RPM for gear 2-3-4. For every upgrade I added, I practically shaved off half a second. Like I said, I still gain speed even though the parts aren't optimized for the RPMs I was using.
 
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Sorry to throw dust everywhere, I just wanted to add an optional rule to this whole thing.

Axles have a maximum amount of torque they can absorb without grenading themselves all over the road. When generating your gear ratios in the Full Custom gearbox, you multiply the engine torque by the 1st gear, then multiply again by the final ratio. The result must be equal or lower than the axle's torque capacity.

I say optional because there's no way in hell to know the exact limit on every car among the hundreds in the game.

Generally speaking, axles for light, low-powered cars have a capacity of 2,500 lb/ft

Mid-sized car axles have a torque capacity of 3,500 lb/ft

Classic big-block muscle car axles will have up to 5,000 lb/ft

4WD are complicated. Theoretically, most 4x4 cars will combine two light axles for a maximum of 5,000 lb/ft, assuming your VCD is set to 50/50. Obviously, the torque limit will go down if one axle gets a higher share of power.

Then you have oddballs like the Dodge Ram. This one will have a big block axle on the rear, with a mid-size for the front, adding up to 8,500 lb/ft of potential torque with a roughly 40/60 VCD split.
 

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