Proper Graphics’ 3D model of a Koenigsegg CCX to Gran Turismo 5’s specifications caused quite a stir. Not only was it discussed across the web, the accompanying video clip was the seventh most popular on YouTube last week! Yury Rybakov of the Belarus-based design studio dropped by our forums to help explain exactly why their model looked so much better than what we’ve seen in games so far. Mr. Rybakov conceeds the Koenigsegg wasn’t processed in real-time like it would be in a game, but it also makes significantly better use of the polygons that it is composed of. He supports his argument by highlighting several imperfections in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue’s vehicle models that have resulted in incorrect and misaligned surface reflections that most of us have probably missed!
To their credit, Polyphony Digital have the monumental task of crafting hundreds of these models, and compromises have no doubt been made. Regardless, Yury’s technical insight shows us laymen how some additional tweaking can go a long way, raising the bar higher for the next iteration of the Gran Turismo series. Check out the screenshots below to see what he’s talking about:
I couldn’t see the problem with half of those circles (mainly the ones with distortions across the seam).
I’ve got to throw my vote in with the “perfection isn’t realism” crowd here. Plus the interior of that Koenigsegg looks too much like a computer render. A computer render with amazing textures, but a computer render nonetheless.
All in all, that CCX is impressive, but I don’t see every part of it as a substantial improvement over the current graphics.
http://news-images.caradisiac.com/IMG/jpg/5/9/9/0/7/599_GTB_DSC08941.jpg
^ Manufacturing a car makes lots of imperfections…so if you want to stay realistic, you must be perfectible.
Perfection is only virtual, and it’s the only way to make the difference between a “not bad 3d cg” and a masterpiece (which have little imperfections…).
This is proven that the Gran Turismo franchise is always been an interesting /eye opener to other people..
Well to me its too tiny details & i assume it can be proceed considering the realisms they do so far..hopefully they read this article escpecially the 3D modellers from polyphony to do the best (well they did perfect job actually) next time on next GT…
Try not to be too critical here. To make compromises is always a good thing, in the end, gamers like us will get the benefits anyway. However, these graphic “things” will be hardly noticed by ordinary people (I felt nothing wrong while playing until I saw the pictures above, I still wouldnt have noticed if the guy didnt circle those “unrealistic” spots), my opinion is, instead of spending their precious time on improving the tiny details, specially something people wouldnt notice, it is better focus on something bigger, that gamers really desire about, such as car damage, weather change, mud and dirt etc. Although I think adaptations like this should be done in the very end stage of the game making. Hope GT5 will become the most ultimate racing game ever!!
I was looking closely too the car made by Yuri and the reflections that he maded.
Well, the car is wonderful, more than anything so far in GT 5, but. The reflections, they aren’t so realistc that way. In a reflection of a car, you can’t see everything so clear that you can use as a perfect mirror, look for reflection in real cars and then look at the Yuri’s car. In the koeinsegg made by Yuri, you can see even little stones in the ground so clearly, and a build that is so far from the car, and you can see every single detail of it. I never see a real car reflection “so well” like that.
Don’t get me wrong, i would love if GT 5 have that grafich, but, to the guy babling around like that, like he can do a better car than PD, then, use a real-time render, and use it on the PS3!
Sorry for the bad englih
Can u make a game like GT5 without the imperfections u mentioned??? i don’t think sou then stop with the improved visuals cause i think they can make this static design perfect but put that in real time and motion…
Well, some incorret reflections won’t make the game looks much better than it is today, its a non sense discution. Pre-render grafichs against real time…
Sure, see points that can make the game better is always good ! If PD can correct it, good for all of us.
Sorry for the bad english.
umm ok, read all of your points and you all are intituled to your own opinions, but to be honest, GT5 has all this hype around it being the best driving game out there, and to be honest there are quite a few games on par with it at the moment, and many of them with better engine sounds for the cars.
If I were to buy the game as someone who is not a fan of the GT serious (i am a fan of the GT Series) but just someone looking for the best car game out there. I would really want all of these things in the final game. I mean aspects like;
• Graphics like the guys designed on the Koenigsegg,
• The bug splats,
• Bird reflections,
• Maybe even birds that scatter when driving towards them on circuits like the Nürburgring (Nordschleife)….
I think with the PS3’s capable power, it is surely capable of a game that is far better than that of GT5 Prologue. I mean I’m not saying GT5 prologue is bad, but I have gone off playing it now as , there are so many things that just wear away at me when I play it. I mean graphics wise, surely they can be better.. Just look at a handful of the driving games on Xbox 360, the graphics are on par with that of GT5 prologue, and this leads me to believe that surely there is a lot of room for improvements in the GT series or GT5 final game…
I mean being a pretty avid car fan and supporter of many car magazines like “Drivers-Republic”, “Sport Auto” and “Car”… it would be nice to maybe have GT5 in such a different league to the other car games out there, so that maybe you too can feel like many of these journalists, that write the articles in these magazines, do when they review a new car… if that makes sense to anyone apart from me…
Go easy on me :S didn’t mean to annoy people or step on anyone’s toes about this, just wanted to voice my opinion (Y)
Don’t give PD ideas – they can go back and fix the models after GT5 has been released! :) Perhaps PD know about them…
Fran Aquino – you’re right. PD modelled the cars in the first place and a comparison is being made between PS3 rendered images against pre-rendered images on different hardware. Not sure of the Yury Rybakov’s intention here… sorry, don’t mean to sound harsh.
Yes, there are imperfections that will become more noticable with rendering improvements and a magnifying glass.
No
I’m quite sure the folks at PD must be among the most capable people you could find all over the world to make a racing sim properly. Just don’t come with pre-rendered content saying you can do better within the same constraints, as they are not. Just the same number of polygons doesn’t make it. I’m not an expert by any means but just two points:
· Rendering method? Real-time (rasterized) vs pre-rendered (surely raytraced) can’t be compared. Reflection, refraction etc are hard to make with a rasterization engine as the RSX, and are always just an approximation. Soft shadows are also hard to generate with rasterization techniques.
· What resolution are the textures? Pre-rendered content has no memory constraints on the resolution of textures. RT usually has to deal with lower resolution to keep framerate, it’s also common to use even lower resolution versions for reflections (environmental maps) and the like.
And as I said in my previous comment, I’d rather see a bird speckle on the windscreen of the cars, or a fly speckle on their front lights. THAT would make for realism.
I think we would notice the difference when it’s made. Just look at the smooth reflections of the Koenigsegg. Small flaws in the surface of the car distorts that perfect image. Don’t you think it’s possible to fail to see the problem but still see the improvement?
This is all nonsense BS. Perfection has nothing to do with realism. GT is not about ‘The perfect driving simulation’ but ‘The REAL driving simulation’. What everybody is looking forward to right now in GT5 is CAR DAMAGE. Those minor flaws pointed by the author don’t have a noticeable impact on realism, IMHO the car models look so perfect already that they no longer feel ‘real’. The GT5 team could better spend their time in the aforementioned car damage, which should also include dust etc so the models look less ‘perfect’ and more ‘real’ instead of wasting their valuable time reading comments from people with no real (pun intended) knowledge of real time graphics trying to get their 15 mins of glory.
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Well I have to agree with Rybakov’s statements. I used to dabble in the 3Ds business when I was younger and I think these flaws he highlighted are obvious and clearly show mis-alignments in the model continuity. From a visual standpoint, I don’t know how the artist could let a model be approved without ensuring shadows and lighting reflections aren’t consistent throughout the entire shape of the car. It used to irk me to realize that some portions of a body wouldn’t match up with the other. Maybe when you are driving fast, you never really pay much attention since your eyes are on the road, but if GT wants to become the pinnacle of racing simulation, they cannot let visual disparities go by unchecked. I guess I am a bit OCD on these things as well, so imperfections sometimes bother me.
Hopefully PD would take a note of this and have their designers focus more on the flow of the designs so parts match up in the long run and look like one flow, rather than several parts built separately.
If Yury Rybakov’s team has experience with developing graphics on ps3 than it would make sense to argue about these minor imperfections. I’ve heard of developers complaining about how difficult it is to develop on the ps3, so developing graphics on a high end PC would probably be easier to do. Either way, the graphics on the koenigsegg look sick and shows where games are headed to.
You know, when these visuals are going by at 60FPS, I don’t know how many people really notice.
It’s kinda nice having a little imperfection, just like the real world. Door seams don’t always match on real cars, either.
Honestly, the benefits don’t outweigh the time it would take to go through and fix all of these little problems that the average person is not going to notice. Every game has to make the compromises here, and I’d rather have small amounts like these instead of other stuff that could be even worse.
So much for my imagination of that koeinsegg being my online toy :(
I find the improvement over GTHD more interesting.