Left foot braking.

  • Thread starter strik3out
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So your saying if I press the brake with my left foot instead of my right the brakes will wear out quicker??

Unless you mean if you brake with your left your more likely to be on the brakes more often and possibly harder?


1twojay
=I'm considering adapting this method, just wanna know of the side effects.
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The side effects depend on how you do it, if your going to be on the brakes and gas the same time alot then it not a good idea (eg at traffic lights). Also some people have a habit of slighty resting their foot on the brake enough so the brake lights come on.
 
They will only wear out quicker if you keep your right foot on the accelerator at the same time. In a manual car, left foot braking is pretty much useless in day-to-day conditions. Great on track though in a fwd car. Heel and toeing, however, is very useful.
 
Also other bad habits arise like the tendency to brake later. I have a friend who left foot brakes and he has picked up many bad habit from it, not a pleasant ride.
 
1twojay
Nice, one of the few people I've heard of that really does it on a daily basis. Do you find yourself braking with your foot still on the gas, or do you release throttle all the way when braking? Also do you find any effect on brake-wear? I'm considering adapting this method, just wanna know of the side effects.
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I don't really hold on the gas while LFB, but on the odd occasion on one particular corner on the way to work, I will sometimes just tickle the throttle at the same time to try and keep a bit more speed through the corner, ONLY when there is no other vehicles near the corner ( and obviously on my own when I push that hard ). It's a nice slow banked corner, usually I take it at about between 70 and 80 Kph ( at the slowest point of the corner ) most usually take it at about 50Kph, depending on how I enter it and staying in my lane of course and how much all four wheels are squealing.
The only side effects that I have encountered was when I first started doing it, I used to hit the brakes a bit too hard, it took a little while for my brain to automatically adjust the correct pressure of for left foot to use (if you know what I mean.)
 
Left foot braking is a technique that should rarely be needed on the road, its mainly a racing technique.

On the whole you should use your right foot for braking, its generally more sensitive than your left (years of working the throttle) and allows you to heel and toe, if and when you need to downchange.

Left foot braking has two main uses:

The first being to help scrub of understeer, if you encounter understeer round a corner a gentle application of the brakes (with the left foot) while still on the throttle will transfer weight slightly towards the front of the car. This will increase traction on the front whels and reduce the understeer. Hit the brakes too hard and the transfer will be too great, you will loose grip on the raer and spin.

The second use is with turbo or other engines that require the car to be kept in a narrow powerband, left foot braking allows you to keep the revs up.

The reason for the excesive brake wear is simple, if you are on the brakes and throttle at the same time then the stresses put on all brakeing components are far greater.

As for left foot braking when you are not on the gas; its not really a great idea, if you need to change gear you have to lift of the brakes (unless you happen to be an Octopus) and the time saved in reaction time is debatable. Most people are used to braking with the right, at first switching to the left is going to be slower as you will have to correct what you want to naturally do (brake with the right).

The biggest problem people have at first with left foot braking is that the left foot has not had the experience of the right foot at subtle and gentle pedal control, as for most people all it has ever done is opperate the clutch. It takes a while to develop this control and the road is not the place to try (unless you like being hit from behind).

GT is a good place to experiment with it and it is an excellent technique to aid with understeer. Best used with a wheel and pedals of course, but those with only a DS2 to hard may want to try switching the throttle/brake buttons around. This allows you to use the brakes while you are still on the throttle, not as good as a wheel/pedals, but its not bad.
 
Hi dude, but I was only refering to using LFB in my automatic cars and not in a manual, like you said a bit rediculous on the streets and would really slow down reaction time when having to go back to the clutch, and I really only use it for the quicker reaction time, in an AUTO, you have when something out of the ordinary occours. And as I stated before I have had quite a few years of using LFB and do not have any trouble with my left foot sensitivity, and do not have any trouble going straight back into a manual ( or stick shift as you guys like to call them) car and using only my right foot for braking. I have toyed with attempting to do LFB in the manual but it didn't feel right. And when I had a go on our local race track with that car, I didn't feel the need to use LFB in the manual on that track, but definately used heel-toe for down shifts.......
 
TazzieDvl05au
Hi dude, but I was only refering to using LFB in my automatic cars and not in a manual, like you said a bit rediculous on the streets and would really slow down reaction time when having to go back to the clutch, and I really only use it for the quicker reaction time, in an AUTO, you have when something out of the ordinary occours. And as I stated before I have had quite a few years of using LFB and do not have any trouble with my left foot sensitivity, and do not have any trouble going straight back into a manual ( or stick shift as you guys like to call them) car and using only my right foot for braking. I have toyed with attempting to do LFB in the manual but it didn't feel right. And when I had a go on our local race track with that car, I didn't feel the need to use LFB in the manual on that track, but definately used heel-toe for down shifts.......
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Not a problem, Autos are a different matter, gives the left foot something to do.

My post was just a general reply to the thread and not a specific reply to anyone, BTW we generally refer to them as Manuals here in the UK as well, as far as I know Stick Shift is an American term.
 
Yes, I agree that LFB for daily driving is not necessary. But I've always been paranoid thinking about the fact that I can react faster in the event of emergency if using LFB.

I don't know about the numbers, but I believe alot of accidents occur when the driver panics and slams the gas instead in emergency's.

As for SCAFF's concerns about getting used to LFB, lets just assume we are comparing drivers who are used to LFB with drivers who are used to RFB
 
LFB is normally not recommended because people generally have less feel in their left foot than their right, both from throttle use and from the fact that 90% of people are right-footed. I being left-footed, I have hideous time with the throttle in a real car, but when/if I pass my test ( :scared: :scared: ) I would probably LFB - much quicker reaction time for sure. The downside of that is - you're more likely to get hit from behind by someone not braking as quickly. But then thats not your fault really.

Whoever said about wearing out stuff clearly knows nothing at all - (not referring to person who posted that). Using the brake will cause wear, regardless of what foot you use. Heavy braking will cause excess wear, not the "wrong" foot.
 
RenesisEvo
Whoever said about wearing out stuff clearly knows nothing at all - (not referring to person who posted that). Using the brake will cause wear, regardless of what foot you use. Heavy braking will cause excess wear, not the "wrong" foot.
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Leftfoot braking, as defined in racing terms is when you brake with your left foot at the same time as useing your right foot on the throttle.

Its principal uses are outlined in my last post and it does significantly increase the wear on both the pads and discs, as well as increasing the stress on most braking and suspension components.
 
Scaff
Not a problem, Autos are a different matter, gives the left foot something to do.

My post was just a general reply to the thread and not a specific reply to anyone, BTW we generally refer to them as Manuals here in the UK as well, as far as I know Stick Shift is an American term.
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That's ok mate, sorry I didn't look to see where you were from, it's just that I remember reading on one of the posts, that someone was using the term "stick shift".....yeah I know that is usually an American term( and don't want to go into reasons, don't want to be threatened to be banned again..... :embarrassed:
 
i use leftfoot braking in real life and in gt4p(rally sections...) it takes weight of back end off car and it slides better (this way you can slide easy whit ff car)
 
rollazn
In GT3 - I use the right analog stick to shift up and shift down. I was sadden to see that I can't do that in GT4. The right analog stick is already set up by default to gas/brake.

Do anyone know how to deactivate the right analog stick? So that I can set it to my likings?
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rollazn - did you ever work out how to use the right analog stick to shift up and down? I did the same in GT3 - I used right analog up to shift up and right analog right to shift down. I think it's really annoying when they don't maintain the ability to control the game how you want to between versions as you spend months getting used to controlling it one way, and then have to completely re-learn it!
 
QUOTE=Scaff]Left foot braking is a technique that should rarely be needed on the road, its mainly a racing technique.

On the whole you should use your right foot for braking, its generally more sensitive than your left (years of working the throttle) and allows you to heel and toe, if and when you need to downchange.

Left foot braking has two main uses:

The first being to help scrub of understeer, if you encounter understeer round a corner a gentle application of the brakes (with the left foot) while still on the throttle will transfer weight slightly towards the front of the car. This will increase traction on the front whels and reduce the understeer. Hit the brakes too hard and the transfer will be too great, you will loose grip on the raer and spin.

The second use is with turbo or other engines that require the car to be kept in a narrow powerband, left foot braking allows you to keep the revs up.

The reason for the excesive brake wear is simple, if you are on the brakes and throttle at the same time then the stresses put on all brakeing components are far greater.

As for left foot braking when you are not on the gas; its not really a great idea, if you need to change gear you have to lift of the brakes (unless you happen to be an Octopus) and the time saved in reaction time is debatable. Most people are used to braking with the right, at first switching to the left is going to be slower as you will have to correct what you want to naturally do (brake with the right).

The biggest problem people have at first with left foot braking is that the left foot has not had the experience of the right foot at subtle and gentle pedal control, as for most people all it has ever done is opperate the clutch. It takes a while to develop this control and the road is not the place to try (unless you like being hit from behind).

GT is a good place to experiment with it and it is an excellent technique to aid with understeer. Best used with a wheel and pedals of course, but those with only a DS2 to hard may want to try switching the throttle/brake buttons around. This allows you to use the brakes while you are still on the throttle, not as good as a wheel/pedals, but its not bad.[/QUOTE]


Alright Scaff! Excelent post! There are many Americans here that never drove cars with manuals, but when they talk they seem to be some kind of driving gods. Luckily we Europeans have the good sense to drive with manuals and avoid bad driving habits.
 
daggoth
Alright Scaff! Excelent post! There are many Americans here that never drove cars with manuals, but when they talk they seem to be some kind of driving gods. Luckily we Europeans have the good sense to drive with manuals and avoid bad driving habits.
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Oh God!....EuroTrash
 
it really depends on how you drive. if you drive really fast, and weave pass idiots who decide to change lanes into faster traffic and then slow down, then LFB can be a livesaver, or godsend. when i drive AT cars, i use LFB as it allows me to react faster when going through traffic. and if you control your throttle effectively, you can assist the AT in when to shift up/down; my sister and mom argue that when gettin on the freeway the shift is slow to a higher gear, but in the ATs i've experienced that if instead of just flooring it, if you get near high revs and then give it less throttle suddenly, it will change gears, and then you can go back on the throttle. this really only applies for real-world driving, as in GT4 you can't get a really good feel for when the car is stuggling. as for brakes, yes, it may wear them out faster, but it depends on what you are doing. if you drive fast and need to break harder, then they will wear out fast. but when most people think of LFB they think of both throttle and gas at the same time which will definately wear out the brakes faster (in an AT car, as you can't pop the clutch, [unless you want to pop into to neutral]). think about it: the throttle is telling the car to go, so the wheels will turn, while the brake tells it that it needs to stop, and slow down the wheels. using simultaneous hard LFB and throttle on an FF car will destroy your brakes (not "destroy", but make them wear out very fast), as the front wheels are attemting to turn under throttle but the brakes are attempting to slow them down at the same time. it's better in FF cars to lift off the gas and brake slightly, and then feather the throttle to maintain the correct speed. and if your tires are squealing, then you're pushing the limits of them and the car....slow down!

i actually recommend that everybody using an AT should LFB, but NOT in the sense of trying to both throttle and brake at the same time, but to cut down on reaction time. those that don't use LFB now will have to get used to it, but you'll also find that you are paying more attention to your car and the road.

for me, LFB is more of a need-to-go-fast-all-the-time issue. people that ride with me often think that i'm going to kill us all because they think i can't make the correct reaction times, but using LFB allows me to drive a bit more aggressively. i don't have to wait for my right foot to travel to the brake and then travel back to accelerate, i just snap the brake quickly and immediately go back on throttle with the right foot.

and you are NEVER invulnerable OR a good driver. you're just lucky. i also suggest for everyone to get in at least one car crash (preferably one that is not your fault), so you understand just exactly that you can't push the car 100% all of the time, or in the case where you are stopped at a light and some ass rear-ends you, that your car will break very easily. then you'll be more concious of everything.
 
OH, CRAP. i forgot something important, so important that i will post another reply so that people actually read it.

if you use the DS, DO NOT USE THE LEFT STICK FOR BRAKING/ACCELERATING.
it's the same principle as why to use LFB over not. if you use the stick for accel/brake, then when you brake you are going to have no throttle at all, and it takes longer for you to transition between accel/braking. with the stick, you go full-throttle less-throttle no throttle little-braking full-braking (though this takes less than 1/4 a sec), but with the buttons you can go from full-throttle to full-brake instantly (well, when compared to the stick). the PS2 has to read all the intermediates in the stick from full-throttle to full-brake, so while you may go from throttle to brake fast, the PS2 still reads it as full/less/no/less/full. while the same is true for the buttons, it occurs much faster, and you can do both at once. i suggest to ONLY use the stick when you need to be very exact with your throttle/braking, such as the liscence tests
 
I think it´s easy to brake/accelerate in the DS2...even using 50% in one and 100% in other, or 20%/100%...just a matter of geting used. I always use that to elliminate oversteer when i don´t want it. But most of times i cope with it to help at the ideal cornering.

But as i don´t have a DFP i have to play in the DS2. BTW, in the steering wheel, it´s even infinite easier to brake/accelerate at the same time. And it´s lots of more precise too.
 
denki
using simultaneous hard LFB and throttle on an FF car will destroy your brakes (not "destroy", but make them wear out very fast), as the front wheels are attemting to turn under throttle but the brakes are attempting to slow them down at the same time. it's better in FF cars to lift off the gas and brake slightly, and then feather the throttle to maintain the correct speed. and if your tires are squealing, then you're pushing the limits of them and the car....slow down!
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Try that in a number of FWD cars as lifting right off the throttle halfway around a bend and the only thing you are going to do is end up facing the wrong way. Lift off oversteer can be hard to catch if you are not used to it.

If you are having to do anything more than a gentle application of the brakes (while on the throttle) to reduce understeer then you are going way to fast in the first place.

denki
for me, LFB is more of a need-to-go-fast-all-the-time issue. people that ride with me often think that i'm going to kill us all because they think i can't make the correct reaction times, but using LFB allows me to drive a bit more aggressively. i don't have to wait for my right foot to travel to the brake and then travel back to accelerate, i just snap the brake quickly and immediately go back on throttle with the right foot.
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With regard to braking in general, you should never 'snap' the brakes on, even in an emergancy situation. Smooth, progressive and firm action on the brake pedal is always much more effective; snapping the brakes on and off can upset the cars balance and cause a loss in speed or worse control. You will also run a much higher risk of locking the wheels or engaging the ABS.

denki
and you are NEVER invulnerable OR a good driver. you're just lucky. i also suggest for everyone to get in at least one car crash (preferably one that is not your fault), so you understand just exactly that you can't push the car 100% all of the time, or in the case where you are stopped at a light and some ass rear-ends you, that your car will break very easily. then you'll be more concious of everything
Click to expand...

You are right that being in an accident is a learning experience, however I would recomend that people book a days training at a skidpan with professional instruction, a very valuable way to learn.

I have been lucky enough through my job to spend days at proving grounds and track learning these skills, and I still have a lot to learn.
 
Scaff
With regard to braking in general, you should never 'snap' the brakes on, even in an emergancy situation. Smooth, progressive and firm action on the brake pedal is always much more effective; snapping the brakes on and off can upset the cars balance and cause a loss in speed or worse control. You will also run a much higher risk of locking the wheels or engaging the ABS.
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Snap as in quickly apply (not all the way), as opposed to do a slam-on-the-brakes snap. I'm referring to the speed of you being able to brake, not the pressure. The example that..I think the guy who started this thread....said .8 seconds for a panic to move right foot to brake pedal? So if you figure you aren't going to be in a panic situation, that might extend to a second of travel to the pedal, and then another second back to the gas. But if you are LFB then you can just tell your left foot to brake and your right to apply gas when ready, as opposed to waiting for your body to get in the right position.
 
umm, holding the brake + gas doesn't apply the brake AND keep the wheels spinning. If you apply the brake then it automatically applies the clutch. The only way I think this would help is so you don't have to find how much pressure you want to give to the throttle again after you are done braking.
 
I am a manual driver and I keep hearing about heel/toe technique. I know what it is and have tried it but can't seem to position my foot to brake effectively while staying on the gas. I always seem to apply like 10% brakes and 90% throttle. Any tips?
 
FuryX21
I am a manual driver and I keep hearing about heel/toe technique. I know what it is and have tried it but can't seem to position my foot to brake effectively while staying on the gas. I always seem to apply like 10% brakes and 90% throttle. Any tips?
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Practice.
 
FuryX21
I am a manual driver and I keep hearing about heel/toe technique. I know what it is and have tried it but can't seem to position my foot to brake effectively while staying on the gas. I always seem to apply like 10% brakes and 90% throttle. Any tips?
Click to expand...


i hope your not talking about healtoeing in gt4 when the game has autoclutch. :indiff: if you shift down you can hear the game "healtoeing" for you.
 
if you wanna learn to left foot brake try karts. i spent several years racing karts and thats how i learned to left foot brake. i use left foot braking to get rid of understeer. the technique itself came from the group b era of rally. the group b cars were making so much power and as a result suffered from turbo lag. drivers learned that by keeping their foot on the gas and using their left foot to brake the turbo didnt lag. with todays WRC cars with their sequential gearboxes left foot braking is pretty much standard. i never got comfortable using left foot braking in regular cars but when i raced in formula ford and other formula cars left foot braking was very beneficial.
 
Ok. EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP.

Sorry to word that harshly........now that I have your attention, please read below. Many of you will find that you are mistaken about what you think the term left foor braking means. It's not what you think.


Everyone read Duke and Scaff's posts. Then go to the link at the bottom of my post here. You'll understand then.


Left Foot Braking is NOT about using your left foot on the brake to increase reaction time or any other BULL like that.
It's about being able to apply the gas and the brake at the same time in order to finely control your weight distribution and traction.
I repeat. IT IS NOT just talking about using your left foot so you don't have to remove your right from the gas. The term left foot braking is misleading in thinking that it's simply "using your left foot to brake instead of your right" That is not what it's about. If you read Duke's and my posts in the link below, you'll understand.


Heal and Toe has nothing to do with left foot braking. Totally different subject.



https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54931
 

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