GT4 and Brakes

I did some more brake testing:

First I did a static test of brake pedal position versus brake % (as shown by the red bar on screen).

Brake % -- Distance to base
0% 3 5/8"
25% 3 1/4"
50% 2 7/8"
75% 2 9/16"
100% 2 1/8"

The distances for racing brakes and normal brakes was identical (well to within 1/16").

Next I tried slamming on the brakes as fast as I could from 100mph (using a DS2), using the data logger I measured the number of ml that it took to go from 0% brake to 100% brake. The distance was a bit variable, because the logger does not allow for measurement better than 0.05ml (using estimation), but after doing 5 trials for each type of brake the average was always around 0.15ml. No difference.

Then, I tried the same test from 170mph (to improve accuracy) and again, there was no difference: 0.25ml on average (2 trials each).

Finally, I tried braking and turning at the same time 100% right turn, 100% brake. Distance to stop from 80mph was identical for racing and regular brakes 2.2ml.

CONCLUSION:
Racing Brakes don't do anything measurable

Anyone have any ideas?


(someone will have to come up with a better measurement tool; or, perhaps a blind time trial: the driver doesn't know if race brakes or regular brakes are fitted, races until he gets his best time, then the brakes are switched (or not), etc).

I think we'll have to do 10 laps of tsukuba, best lap and average laps are taken and we can compare them.

Crayola

I think we'll have to do 10 laps of tsukuba, best lap and average laps are taken and we can compare them.

Click to expand...

Is Tsukuba a good track for this test? (I'm just asking)

We need a track with a lot of braking and a lot of different braking. Trail braking and full on threshold braking.

Suggest a car and a track, and I'm all for a group of us trying it out!

All anyone needs to do to have a blind test, is have someone else set the brakes for them, and then LEAVE (so they don't hint at the setting). you can check afterwards what setting it was. Rinse and repeat.

I'm going to suggest New York City as a good track for this test. It has at least 7 important braking corners, and several of them can be successfully trail braked.




Car? Something fast, but without downforce, does my favorite car fit the bill? Lotus Elise 111R '04

Tsukuba has 4 braking zones?

FIDO69

I'm going to suggest New York City as a good track for this test. It has at least 7 important braking corners, and several of them can be successfully trail braked.




Car? Something fast, but without downforce, does my favorite car fit the bill? Lotus Elise 111R '04

Click to expand...

Tsukuba is a little short for this test, love the track, I just don't think it would do the job as far as threshold braking goes.

New York is a good choice, but could I also suggest Fuji '90s, it does not have the same number of braking points as New York, but the corners are very critical to good acurate braking, a couple can be trailed easily and the straight would certainly test threshold braking to the limit.

As far as the car goes, you will not find me complaining about the Elise

Fuji '90s: (I think... and yes, I agree, Fuji has some critical braking points, Turns 1, 4-5, and 8-9 are very important.)

Scaff,

Even tho I suggested the idea, I think I should leave it to you to decide since this is your thread. Whatever car/track/rules for the test you think are good, let's do it this weekend!

Also, would it be a good idea to start a new thread or edit your original post so that we can recruit more 'break testers'?

FIDO

FIDO69

Scaff,

Even tho I suggested the idea, I think I should leave it to you to decide since this is your thread. Whatever car/track/rules for the test you think are good, let's do it this weekend!

Also, would it be a good idea to start a new thread or edit your original post so that we can recruit more 'break testers'?

FIDO

Click to expand...

OK, I will sort something out and put it up later.

Have to have a think and put it together.

Scaff,

I got your PM. No problem. I tried the Elise 111R at Fuji 90's. There was no difference between the brakes.

I did about 10laps to get warmed up, then had my friend randomize the brake settings. Swapped three times, with no difference. Also, I could tell by watching the ghost that there was no difference in the brake distances, starting points, turn in or anything else.

I'm pretty much ready to conclude that there is no difference in GT4 between race and normal brakes.

(only one other thing I can think of: perhaps racing brakes save tire wear? I'll have to do some B-spec Bob racing to test this.)

FIDO69

Scaff,

I got your PM. No problem. I tried the Elise 111R at Fuji 90's. There was no difference between the brakes.

I did about 10laps to get warmed up, then had my friend randomize the brake settings. Swapped three times, with no difference. Also, I could tell by watching the ghost that there was no difference in the brake distances, starting points, turn in or anything else.

I'm pretty much ready to conclude that there is no difference in GT4 between race and normal brakes.

(only one other thing I can think of: perhaps racing brakes save tire wear? I'll have to do some B-spec Bob racing to test this.)

Click to expand...

Fido

I found a couple of hours last night to do the same thing, and again I can see no significant difference between laptimes with or without racing brakes when I was unaware that they were fitted (got my wife to set them while I was out if the room - she now thinks I've gone totaly mad).

I then ran a couple of other tests, using the data logger; the first run was 3 hot laps which I then saved the best lap and then ran 14 fast but steady laps with a final 15 lap flat out; this allowed me to save the 15th lap as my best lap.

Then used the data logger to compare the brakes of a car after 3 and 15 laps, no difference what so ever. Ran this with both standard and racing brakes fitted, no signs of fade at all, the braking distances in each test were almost identical. Again this was run with my wife setting up the brake type so I was unware which run was for which type.

Final test was 5 hot laps with and without racing brakes fitted, and with me aware of which was fitted (to me fair my wife was getting a little fed-up with me at this point) and quite strangley, when I knew I had racing brakes fitted I was on average about 0.5 sec faster per lap.

This really bugs the hell out of me, all the above tests seem to indicate that the racing brakes make no difference to stopping distances (as they should not) and no brake fade is modeled in GT4 (which is a shame but not a huge surprise), however when I know I have the racing brakes fitted I am faster.

Right now I have a memmory card packed with laps of Fuji '90s in the Elise and no answers; but I am going to spend some time tonight looking at the data logger to see if using the racing brakes allows me to carry my braking into the corners more that the standard brakes would.

Hmmm, have we not kind of reached a conclusion yet?

Scaff,

I congratulate you on your testing and willingness to upset the conjugal apple cart... My housemate already thinks I'm a loon (but who cares? He races in his Honda Insight).

While I feel that there may be something we left unturned somewhere... I've concluded that there is NO difference between brakes in GT4 except their price tag.

(I may still buy them at occasionally so I can have the pysche edge of seeing "racing" all up and down my tunings page. But I'll know I'm just being silly.)

try a bit of cadence braking ,i do and have found that it usually slows me enough and i keep control of the car

I forgot about the brake controller. It helps. I did a little testing with a Mazda Miata, but not enough to give you the data. I'm guessing there may be about a 3-4% improvement by balancing the brakes. Whether this is race/normal brake dependent, I'll have to test more.

"fasterthanu", by cadence braking, do you mean "trail braking"? Braking less than threshold? "keeping control of the car", the only way I know to measure that is thru better lap times. If you are interested, do some blind lap tests and let me know if you are faster or slower with racing brakes.

FIDO69

"fasterthanu", by cadence braking, do you mean "trail braking"? Braking less than threshold? "keeping control of the car", the only way I know to measure that is thru better lap times. If you are interested, do some blind lap tests and let me know if you are faster or slower with racing brakes.

Click to expand...

Fido, Cadence braking is used when you have locked you tyres and need to regain control, most people know it as 'pumping the brakes'.

http://www.modernracer.com/tips/cadencebraking.html

I would question it being quicker than good threshold braking as you have already exceeded the tyres grip before you need to use it, therefore you are already looking at a longer braking distance.

Think of it as a form of manual ABS, you pump the brakes to return grip to the tyres and to allow steering input to avoid an accident, as such it is more commonly recognised as a road driving technique rather than a race technique. The wide spread introduction of ABS has just about removed this skill from the average road driver, and on the track threshold braking will always be faster. It is however an invaluable skill for the road, particularly if you get to drive in mixed condition such as those found in the UK.

BTW I picked up a copy of the Skip Barber book 'Going Faster' today, looks like a damn good read; thanks for the recomendation.

Thanks for the explanation, Scaff.

How are road conditions "mixed" in the UK? You don't still have dirt and cobblestone, do you?

Enjoy the read! Tons of good stuff. (Needs an even more advanced second volume, maybe go through some real life tracks and show where time is gained and how?)

FIDO69

Thanks for the explanation, Scaff.

How are road conditions "mixed" in the UK? You don't still have dirt and cobblestone, do you?

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Not far off in some places, we have a fairly changable climate which does make driving conditions interesting, but the condition of a large amount of the road network is very poor.

This is particulalrly true of minor roads (or B roads as they are known), which are very heavily cambered, poorly maintained (surface cracks and potholes) and twisty. However, I would not have them any other way, make quick road driving a real challenge and is more than capable of exposing any chasis and setup weakness.

The shot below is not the best, but it does show a good condition B-road and as can be seen the road surface is fairly broken and the median line is virtualy gone.

There's a lot of information and misinformation on this thread. I hope to try to clear a bit of it up.

1) All else being equal, a lighter car can stop faster and in less distance than a heavier car.

This is true for exactly the same reason that a lighter car is inherently able to corner better.

Pretty much everyone has done the high school experiment measuring friction between blocks of wood which shows that the weight cancels out in the equation and therefore weight doesn't actually matter. A block of wood which is twice as heavy takes twice as much force to stop. But because it's twice as heavy, it has twice as much friction to stop with.

This means that a fully laiden semi should be able to stop in the same distance as a light weight sports car, provided they had tires made of the same substance.

But that's not actually true. There is an essential piece missing here. And it is this:

The friction coefficient of a modern neumatic tire does not increase linearly with weight.

Unlike a smooth piece of wood, when you put twice as much weight on the tire, it does not produce twice as much friction. It will be somewhat less than that.

However, until the weight becomes extreme, the relationship is relatively close to linear. We're talking about something on the order of 10% here. So that's why heavier vehicles can still challenge lighter ones. A heavier vehicle may still corner and stop better than a lighter one because of superiority in other areas.


2) All else being equal, a car with better weight distribution under braking will stop faster and in less distance.

Under braking, weight is transferred from the rear tires to the front tires. Because traction does not increase linearly with weight, this is harmful to braking distance. The greatest traction occurs when weight is distributed evenly between all four tires (provided the tires are themselves identical).

That means that a car with a lower center of gravity will generally stop faster because it has less weight transfer. A car with a longer wheel base will also have less weight transfer under braking.


3) Tires normally have the greatest effect on stopping distance.

This has been said several times in this thread. And it is true in virtually all cases.


4) Downforce has a dramatic effect on stopping distance from high speeds.

If downforce doubles the effective weight at the tire contact patch, the amount of traction produced is nearly doubled. This means the car will stop nearly twice as fast.

However, as the car slows, the downforce decreases dramatically and becomes a less important factor.


5) Larger and/or wider tires stop a car faster.

This is related to the nonlinear relationship between weight and traction of a neumatic tire. At the same weight, a larger contact patch produces more traction than a smaller contact patch. In fact, this seems to make it clear that it's not so much the weight put on a tire as it is the weight _per square inch_.

Heavier sports cars generally mount much wider tires than lighter sports cars to make up the difference.

This is also part of why a semi has so many tires. In fact, an unladen semi can stop quite fast.


6) An upgraded brake system will stop a car faster if the previous system could not provide sufficient braking force.

This is a bit of a yes/no question. Either your braking system has enough force to lock the tires or it doesn't. If it can already exceed the necessary friction in all cases, then upgrading will have no useful effect.

In the past, this was a signficant issue. But modern brakes have become so much better that it's less of a concern.

Note that the stock braking system may become insufficient as the car is given high traction race tires, pushed to higher speeds (by a more powerful engine), and given additional down force. In modern cars, brake upgrades are most typically needed because of other upgrades that have been made to the car.


7) Slamming on the brakes will generally not stop a car as quickly as applying them smoothly.

That seems a little strange, doesn't it? But here's why. If the brakes come on too quickly, the car will experience a period of extra weight transfer as its weight gets a running start and comes crashing down against its own suspension. The stiffer the suspension, the more quickly the brakes can be applied without causing this effect to occur.

The effect of this phenominon on braking distance is not dramatic, but it does matter. It could even nullify the benefit of better braking systems because it happens that much worse when the driver stomps the brake.


8) Extra camber will typically cause the car to stop slower.

Adding camber allows the car to turn better (up to a point), but it loses stopping power because the tires aren't sitting flat against the ground during straight line braking. This effectively reduces the size of the contact patches.


Anyway, I hope this clears things up. I've tried not to use equations and complicated explanations. A lot of this stuff isn't complicated so much as it is hard to explain to others.

- Skant

we have a fairly changable climate which does make driving conditions interesting, but the condition of a large amount of the road network is very poor

Really?
I've been on motorbiking holidays around Wales, England and Scotland and I saw mostly beautiful surfaces and smart roadmarkings.
I did see very few not so good surfaces in some cities or towns, but even then it wasn't very bad.


Have you ever been to Ireland?
We've got more potholes than you'd know what to do with. The condition of our whole road network is very poor, except for a couple of new roads, but it won't be long before someone digs them up and puts back an uneven patchwork that really doesn't deserve to be called a road surface at all.

I'm going to have to get back over to the UK this summer for a nice spin around those wonderful B roads in Wales. Nice scenery, rolling hills and a smooth road...
It took me a while to get used to it when I was there before - it was almost too good! I kept wondering if something was wrong, like maybe tyre pressure too low, but No, the roads were just a lot better than I was used to. Also, the smart signposting - they tell you exactly what is going on ahead. You don't get much of that here. Those trips were great and at first I didn't know what hit me when I got off the boat on my way home - but then I realised - potholes - Doh!
Bumps, cracks, holes, loose gravel - you name it and you can see an example of it on most of the roads I travel daily. Disgusting. Quite uncomfortable in a car and quite treacherous on a bike.

Excellent summary, Skant!

I'm in 100% agreement with your conclusions (tho I think mathmatics and science is the best way to really prove such subjects, some people just don't understand...).

Scaff, I recommend that you put a link to Skant's post in your very first post. In fact, perhaps a little summary of this whole thread might be in order. Since this is a sticky and people may be coming here for years (?), it'd be too much to ask for them to look at all the posts?


And a question: How do bumpy roads affect braking distances?
(it's got to increase them, right? Right??)

FIDO69

Excellent summary, Skant!

I'm in 100% agreement with your conclusions (tho I think mathmatics and science is the best way to really prove such subjects, some people just don't understand...).

Scaff, I recommend that you put a link to Skant's post in your very first post. In fact, perhaps a little summary of this whole thread might be in order. Since this is a sticky and people may be coming here for years (?), it'd be too much to ask for them to look at all the posts?


And a question: How do bumpy roads affect braking distances?
(it's got to increase them, right? Right??)

Click to expand...

Fido, I have added a link to Skants post (which I agree is far more 'plain english' that I could ever manage) along with a recomendation for people to start with it.

Unfortunatly this thread has not yet been made a sticky (hint, hint to mods), but I have put a link in my sig, which I hope is helping to draw attention to it.

On a side note, here in the UK, this weeks Autocar a letter was published moaning about the Ford GT and how in GT4 it has 'terrible understeer' and 'poor brakes'. Here is my e-mailed reply (well how could I let that one go).

Dear Autocar

I am writing in reply to Tom Gregory's question in the 12 April issue, regarding the Ford GT and how he believes that in GT4 the car is poorly represented with 'terrible understeer' and 'poor brakes'. I feel that I must speak in defense of GT4 and its representation of the Ford GT.

This is an issue that has been raised a number of times on various On-line forums, and one that I and a number of other believe to be incorrect. We have recreated a number of braking tests with the Ford GT and the stopping distances and times are almost identical to those published in the Autocar road test for the Ford GT (fit racing tyres and they become much, much shorter as well).

In regard to the comments on the 'terrible understeer'; again I have to disagree. When pushed to fast into a corner then yes the car will understeer, but get the corner entry speed right and the car will remain neutral, with a hint of oversteer if you want as you exit the corner.

Now GT4 is far from perfect, but I do believe that the problems that people are encountering in the game may come from a lack of real world references (I of course have no idea of Tom's real-world driving experiences) and false expectations of just what is possiable from a car.

For me the Ford GT is one of the most enjoyable cars in GT4, great to race or just fool around in; and as the attached picture shows, it has no problem with understeer if you drive within the limits of the car, its tyres and the general laws of physics.

Regards

Click to expand...

In regard to braking distances and bumpy roads; well they certainly do increase (the Physics of racing series has quite a nice piece on 'bumps') and its makes hard braking an entire new experience!

neilX

we have a fairly changable climate which does make driving conditions interesting, but the condition of a large amount of the road network is very poor

Really?
I've been on motorbiking holidays around Wales, England and Scotland and I saw mostly beautiful surfaces and smart roadmarkings.
I did see very few not so good surfaces in some cities or towns, but even then it wasn't very bad.


Have you ever been to Ireland?
We've got more potholes than you'd know what to do with. The condition of our whole road network is very poor, except for a couple of new roads, but it won't be long before someone digs them up and puts back an uneven patchwork that really doesn't deserve to be called a road surface at all.

I'm going to have to get back over to the UK this summer for a nice spin around those wonderful B roads in Wales. Nice scenery, rolling hills and a smooth road...
It took me a while to get used to it when I was there before - it was almost too good! I kept wondering if something was wrong, like maybe tyre pressure too low, but No, the roads were just a lot better than I was used to. Also, the smart signposting - they tell you exactly what is going on ahead. You don't get much of that here. Those trips were great and at first I didn't know what hit me when I got off the boat on my way home - but then I realised - potholes - Doh!
Bumps, cracks, holes, loose gravel - you name it and you can see an example of it on most of the roads I travel daily. Disgusting. Quite uncomfortable in a car and quite treacherous on a bike.

Click to expand...

Damn, sorry NielX, I forgot all about Ireland (its been a couple of years since I have driven in Ireland), and you are quite right, the roads are very bad.

Still, a number of the b-roads I have to use of a regular basis are not much better in the UK (you may have got lucky with the roads on your holiday - hope you do again), but in comparison to most of Europe and the US, the Uk and Ireland have appaling roads, particularly when you get away from the major routes.

You are right that the b-roads in Wales are excellent, but then again they are not very heavely used, and as result are all the better for it, my local B-roads (Wiltshire) are very uneven and while most of the potholes have been filled in, the patchwork left is normally a good few inches different in height to the rest of the road.

Scaff and NeilX,

Maybe this is just "grass is greener" talk, but I kind of wish there were more B-roads in the US. They have character, and remind me of the fun I have top-down on little farm roads in the wine country here in California.

Also, and this is strange for a racer, I consider myself an environmentalist and if we had more crappy roads, maybe fewer people would burn gas driving 100miles one way to work. (wow, that's really wishful thinking)



FIDO

They have character

That is definitely one thing our "B" roads have: character!
There are some nice roads around, but I don't get to travel them on my way to/from work. There's been a series of articles in a paper here about great roads. I'll go out at the weekend and ride on the one covered today - somewhere around Wicklow. I've been on that route before, some terrific scenery too, but I won't see any of that, I'll be too busy

I've been thinking more about the continent this summer for a biking trip.
Get to France and then what? North? East? South? Sweet!

Scaff

On a side note, here in the UK, this weeks Autocar a letter was published moaning about the Ford GT and how in GT4 it has 'terrible understeer' and 'poor brakes'. Here is my e-mailed reply (well how could I let that one go).

Click to expand...

LOL I read that letter when I bought Autocar today and (having read all of this thread and found it very helpful) thought instantly - "I bet Scaff would have something to say about that!"

Top work.

EDIT:
Actually I just fitted the brake balance controller to my Callaway and while I was racing thought of a question - Given that no one has found any advantage to the Racing Brakes, would there be any advantage in stopping distance to be gained from messing with the ABS controller? Or is the controllers benefit only that you can adjust the cars handling (dramatically in some cases) and therefore have more control whilst braking?

Using the ABS controller is it just that I feel like i'm stopping faster because I have more steering response into corners? Also would setting the ABS too high INCREASE stopping distance (it certainly feels that way sometimes)?

Finally - Cadence braking is massively useful to me in GT4 as I can't get the finesse required for threshold braking on the DS2 (difficult on the analog stick and nigh on impossible on the buttons) so I'd recommend it for people having trouble braking from high speed, if you don't have a DFP.

Cheers for a very interesting thread.

route_66

LOL I read that letter when I bought Autocar today and (having read all of this thread and found it very helpful) thought instantly - "I bet Scaff would have something to say about that!"

Top work.

EDIT:
Actually I just fitted the brake balance controller to my Callaway and while I was racing thought of a question - Given that no one has found any advantage to the Racing Brakes, would there be any advantage in stopping distance to be gained from messing with the ABS controller? Or is the controllers benefit only that you can adjust the cars handling (dramatically in some cases) and therefore have more control whilst braking?

Using the ABS controller is it just that I feel like i'm stopping faster because I have more steering response into corners? Also would setting the ABS too high INCREASE stopping distance (it certainly feels that way sometimes)?

Finally - Cadence braking is massively useful to me in GT4 as I can't get the finesse required for threshold braking on the DS2 (difficult on the analog stick and nigh on impossible on the buttons) so I'd recommend it for people having trouble braking from high speed, if you don't have a DFP.

Cheers for a very interesting thread.

Click to expand...

Thats me, just could not let that one go by without replying, it will be intersting to see if my reply will get in.

On the subject of the brake balance controller, its primary purpose is to allow you to control the braking characteristics of the car; depending on the cars initial braking characteristics you may be able to reduce the braking distance by a small amount.

For example I have found that with a stock Viper at New York the rears tend to lock up slightly before the front wheels, resulting in unstable braking, with the back end twitching around. Looks great in replay, but doesn't help the braking distance. Fitting a brake balance controller and moving the brake bias forwards slightly improves the braking stability of the car and allows the full grip levels of the tyres to be used for straight line braking.

One the other point, if you set the brake balance controller settings too high, you will lock the wheels sooner, the ABS will cut in and it will take you longer to stop. This effect would be more dramatic with the DS2 as its harder to modulate the brakes.

Have a look at the Stop-Tech white paper (link is in my first post), it mainly covers brake bias settings (brake balance controller in GT4) and what effect they have on the car. It also covers what to do to help resolve certain braking charcteristics you want to get rid of.

Finally, it is worth the effort to develop a feel for threshold braking as it is far more stable than Cadence braking; which can seriously upset the cars balance, as you 'pump' on and off the brakes, the load is being shifted rapidly from front to back and can unbalance the car.

It takes a while (but is much easier with a DFP) to get used to it, but it will help your lap times (promise).

Thanks a lot Scaff, That's cleared up pretty much everything I wanted to know.

This must be the most technical thread on GTP. Never seen so many math formulas, equations and tech. references. Thanks to all the contributers for a very interesting and informative thread on braking.

Scaff

On the subject of the brake balance controller, its primary purpose is to allow you to control the braking characteristics of the car; depending on the cars initial braking characteristics you may be able to reduce the braking distance by a small amount.

For example I have found that with a stock Viper at New York the rears tend to lock up slightly before the front wheels, resulting in unstable braking, with the back end twitching around. Looks great in replay, but doesn't help the braking distance. Fitting a brake balance controller and moving the brake bias forwards slightly improves the braking stability of the car and allows the full grip levels of the tyres to be used for straight line braking.

Click to expand...

Had the same problem with the Ford GT at Seattle, except instead of a twitch it would do an immediate 360. You have to be very careful of the ABS settings and in general braking that car when turning. In fact, I've found its best to minimize if not eliminate turn braking with it altogether.

Scaff

One the other point, if you set the brake balance controller settings too high, you will lock the wheels sooner, the ABS will cut in and it will take you longer to stop. This effect would be more dramatic with the DS2 as its harder to modulate the brakes.

Click to expand...

Scaff

Finally, it is worth the effort to develop a feel for threshold braking as it is far more stable than Cadence braking; which can seriously upset the cars balance, as you 'pump' on and off the brakes, the load is being shifted rapidly from front to back and can unbalance the car.
It takes a while (but is much easier with a DFP) to get used to it, but it will help your lap times (promise).

Click to expand...

By the term "threshold braking" do you mean, full braking and holding, then release and entry into the corner? This is the method I try to use unless I am using the brakes to help turn the car. BTW in GT3 I found you could run the ABS settings on up for most cars to get maximum braking. Not so in GT4.
I wonder if it is possible, racing brakes help slow the car more in a bracket of speed? However if so, it seems they should also shorten the stopping distance.???

Scaff

Thats me, just could not let that one go by without replying, it will be intersting to see if my reply will get in.


One the other point, if you set the brake balance controller settings too high, you will lock the wheels sooner, the ABS will cut in and it will take you longer to stop. This effect would be more dramatic with the DS2 as its harder to modulate the brakes.

Click to expand...

The brake balance settings in GT4 have to be way lower than GT3. (Using DS2 controller).
Anything over 5 will have the brakes locking up and will increase braking by a long way.
I see reference to ABS being activated. I dont think so as when the wheels lock you cannot turn at all. How many times have you hit the wall at New York in a fast car after misjudging the breaking distance.
When was it decided that ABS has been implimented in GT4? How have I missed this?

Correct me if I am wrong but I dont see brake balance settings having an influence on a ABS settings which aren't in the game. Or is it because I have the ASM turned off have I deactivated the ABS?