Vision Gran Turismo: A Hypothesis

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The359

The359

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The359
Thinking earlier today I came up with an idea of what I believe "Vision Gran Turismo" might just be.

Bear in mind this is just my idea and some random thinking that I believe fits the facts.

I believe that "Vision Gran Turismo" is the supposed "GT4 Online". But it's not that simple. First off, we know the PlayStation 3 is backwords compatible, meaning we can play GT4 on the PS3. The PS3 also has a large hard drive and an apparent dependence on networking.

This could mean that "Vision Gran Turismo" could be a DOWNLOADABLE add-on for GT4 to be played on the PS3. This downloaded program could interact with code already on the GT4 disc, or override code on the GT4 disc allowing for the ability to play online. This same coding could also change the amount of cars playable in network races, as seen in the trailer.

This would also explain why the graphics in the trailer do not appear to be changed, and there are no new cars or tracks.

With the immenent approach of the PS3, this is likely why Polyphony did not implement networking on the original release of GT4. Knowing that the PS2's networks were not up to snuff so as it is, why not just wait and use the new and far superior PlayOnline networks for the PS3?

We know XBox 360 will be launching before the PS3, but Xbox 360 wont have any major online racing games available at first, and I'm not sure when Project Gotham Racing 3 will be out. So to help Sony in that battle, taking the already proven and capable GT4 online could give them the early start.

Also notice in the trailer that the few words are "From Partial Reality" and "To Complete Reality". This could be interpreted as GT4 being 'Partial Completion', and Vision Gran Turismo being 'Completion'.

Anyway, just an idea...
 
First PGR looks like the only racing game coming for the Xbox 360 period for the first year. Second Vision GT does look like an example what GT4 can be at its pinnacle. I would love if the Prolouge keeps the name Vision GT.
 
This does make a lot of sense. It all seems to jibe, doesn't it? The downloadable aspect seems feasible.

Lots of hypotheses being floated lately, probably because we're so bewildered about how there could be so many borked things in GT4, mixed in there with all the great things. Its a game of contradictions.
 
Of everything I've read on this subject, this makes the most sense. Going back to the point about the trailer, why would they call GT4 "partial reality" if it was the final version that they were trying to make in the first place? It's as if they are saying that they got every part of the game that could be near completely realistic (physics and graphics) on PS2, and are now making everything else that can be realistic with the current coding for PS3 (field size). And who knows, maybe GT4 was originally capable of environmental time advancement, tire marks, etc., but it took too much effort from the PS2. Also, it is very likely that the online version of GT4 is this anticipated release on PS3.
 
The grapics looked awsome...but what really amzed me was the # of cars on the track..on the 'ring's straight there were atleast 20 cars.Thats gonna be awsome.
 
They may let you play with a lot of players online since the PS3 will be able to handle it.

Believe it or not I was thinking the same theory The359. This does make the most sense.
 
1989therat
The grapics looked awsome...but what really amzed me was the # of cars on the track..on the 'ring's straight there were atleast 20 cars.Thats gonna be awsome.
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20 cars would sure as hell be a big selling point it ya a GT only person who has had to settle for 6 for almost ten years. They would need to rework some of the races and other things. Unless your car way out performs the rest, doubt if there are many that could overtake 19 cars in less than 5 laps. Especially if its a rolling start and you start dead last. I would settle for random starting grids just to make things simple. I hope that the version being dicussed is the online version of GT4 with extra's ( a few new rides etc. )
 
smellysocks12
I'm sure vision GT is only a tech demo made in 2 days by an enthusiastic PD employee.
Click to expand...

Well, more than two days, but yes something they threw together. I bet those bastards play GT4 with 20+ cars all the time. I would kill for that ...
 
I don't think PD is going the Temco route with this Vision Gran Turismo deal. I say the "Temco Route" in making DOA2 Hardcore, then DOA Ultimate, which is essentially an XBOX version of DOA2, with (you guessed it) XBOX Live. To me, I think Vision Gran Turismo is generally a concept. Think of this as Gran Turismo 5 Concept. This is just like when I seen my first look at what Gran Turismo 2000 (to be later named "Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec") would be like once I got the Gran Turismo 2 soundtrack with bonus disk. Very little is known at this point- almost three months after GT4's release in North America and stuff. So of course the idea of the next GT will be modified versions of the past GT until something interesting comes up.

Since my semester is over, I cannot simply go to school to view any cool videos online. So any video media available, I won't be able to check it out immediately. But I can imagine 20 cars on track. I can imagine maybe 6 rally cars on rally courses. I'm probably not going to use it, but i can imagine online gaming that's been promised since GT4.

The last game I played which featured this many cars on these such tracks is TOCA Race Driver 2. In fact, let me do a little analysis and add an older racing game to this discussion. TOCA RD2 featured rain, car damage, the sun and street lights sparkling off of cars, and stuff like that. If GT5 were to feature these such features, I don't know if rain would be possible. I think PD can cheat the rules a bit because you normally don't see reflections of a car pixel by pixel, or polygon by polygon. What I HAVE seen, however, is lights from the cars shining on the track from cars racing in the wet. When a car is behind in a replay or from the in-car view, you should see the sun beating down on the windshield just gleaming like crazy. Maybe GT5 will feature realistic day and night cycles. Maybe we will see lights come on all of a sudden, not to mention the day-to-night-to-day action of the 24 hour races. Maybe we'll see dynamic weather changes. So much so, that you may end up having to buy Racing Intermediates and Racing Wet tires.

I don't know very much, but we all will at least by this weekend and maybe a month after.
 
JohnBM01
... To me, I think Vision Gran Turismo is generally a concept. Think of this as Gran Turismo 5 Concept. Very little is known at this point- almost three months after GT4's release in North America and stuff. So of course the idea of the next GT will be modified versions of the past GT until something interesting comes up.
Click to expand...

It’s easier to make a completely new remake than to make a add-on.
Just as JohnBM01 said the “Vision Gran Turismo” phrase means that the demo was somethink to give an idea of what GT5 is going to be and nothing more!!
 
I still have a feeling this is a good way to look at what the next GT will be like. Like I said. Don't look at this as a beefed-up GT4. GT4 has been out for a while now. While GT4's graphics and such are being used in the demonstration, how can you easily discount that this is going to be how GT5 will look? Not to be funny, but you you actually think the next GT will be out next year? I would bet to you right now that the game will likely be out in first quarter 2007 AT LEAST. Besides, I think GT5 is likely going to have a much different graphcs engine, maybe modify the GT4 driving physics a bit, enhance the AI, try to add at least a few more cars, maybe consider car damage, maybe get Ferrari and such (since a lot of people can't live without them in the game. For this to happen, a lot of convincing would have to be done to such companies). We'll probably see as many as 2 to 3 or more years of innovation before GT5 comes out for real. By then, PD may have to come out with something special, since 2007 and/or 2008 will mark the Tenth Anniversary of the franchise. So they might come up with some kind of big explosion of data and such to make this the most unreal GT in history.

If Vision Gran Turismo is any indication, there should be something for everyone. If you don't know, you can always dream.
 
I highly suspect that "Vision Gran Turismo" is just the same code in GT4 but with a few parameters changed here and there so that the new power of the PS3 can be used...

This is probably what it could look similar to on high end PC's that they've been developing on...

In GT4 there is probably a list of properties that can be changed...

No. of Cars = 6
Resolution = ? (What is the res of PS2?!)
FPS = 60
Number of PitCrews=6
Pit Crews visible when in pits=false.

This is simply a port of GT4 with tweaked properties that the PS3 (and high end PC's) could show case.

C.
 
I don't think this is a gt4 add on at all, just a concept for GT5 as an indication of where PD would like to take the franchise, more cars more realism.
 
yeti
I highly suspect that "Vision Gran Turismo" is just the same code in GT4 but with a few parameters changed here and there so that the new power of the PS3 can be used...

This is probably what it could look similar to on high end PC's that they've been developing on...

In GT4 there is probably a list of properties that can be changed...

No. of Cars = 6
Resolution = ? (What is the res of PS2?!)
FPS = 60
Number of PitCrews=6
Pit Crews visible when in pits=false.

This is simply a port of GT4 with tweaked properties that the PS3 (and high end PC's) could show case.

C.
Click to expand...

So, maybe GT4's code already has all this capability, but the PS/2 can't handle it, huh?

Fascinating concept. The demo is, after all, just GT4 the way we would all love it to be, isn't it? You may be on to something here.
 
You may be on to something here.
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Yeah, this is what alot of people are thinking. I honestly dont see how people think Vision GT's graphics are better than GT4's. Or at least how they think they can tell that from a tiny little low res movie. Vision GT is NOT designed to showcase the PS3's power. Vision GT is designed to showcase GT4, and what it can do on a more powerfull system. The way it stands right now, with what we saw Vision GT wouldn't come close to using all the PS3's resources. Theres plenty of room for graphical improvements on top of what we allready saw, but I think that will be saved for GT5.
 
It's pretty clear that all they did was run something very similar to GT4 on the PS3 and because of all the extra power were able to add more cars and beef up the pit lane etc.

GT5 is not GT Vision. Even the name suggests it's a vision, an idea.
 
Something I have just thought of, and may have been realized by others, is that some of the "special cars" such as the Caterham, the Auto Union, the Prowler, etc., may be available for racing on PS3. If GT4 does indeed contain so-called "PS3 exclusive code", GT4 could be the biggest surprise of any game seen in a while, and could be one of the best marketing moves, if not the best, in the history of the video gaming industry. Think about it...almost everyone that has GT4 already will go and buy a PS3, especially if they are disappointed about field size, special cars, etc. People that are definitely buying a PS3 will have superior racing game at launch to buy. And finally, GT4 could end up being the prime example of how much more capable the PS3 is than the PS2, since GT4 would allow a direct comparison in performance between the two.
 
Ok, so with the PS3 being able to go online (which isn't anything new by console standards), could I just connect it to my current high-speed connection or will I have to buy special gear and a subscription to PSOnline or whatever it's called to be able to play others and download and whatnot?
 
The graphics are the same as GT4 is. Its a moded GT4 that they puted more cars to show off the capabilities of PS3 to process many cars togheter and also more things.

Buts its not GT5 at all. Or would u think that GT5 would NOT have an advance in graphics, compared to GT4?? =/

Just a blind guy couldn´t see its GT4 playing with more cars. If u see how good are the graphics of the new game Formula One, that will release on 2006 for PS3, u would think at least that GT5 will be equal or BETTER than those graphics, that are already EXTREME. :D
 
LoudMusic
. I bet those bastards play GT4 with 20+ cars all the time. I would kill for that ...
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:lol: :lol: yeah probably they also have a second PS3 dev kit running for improving the AI....
 
veilsidebr
If u see how good are the graphics of the new game Formula One, that will release on 2006 for PS3, u would think at least that GT5 will be equal or BETTER than those graphics, that are already EXTREME. :D
Click to expand...


yeah, no kidding.
928392_20050516_screen002.jpg
 
I'm still going by the GT Concept and GT4 "Prolouge" deal. Well after Gran Turismo 3 was released, did you really think GT Concept would be GT3-2? No. It did feature a returning track missing from GT3- Autumn Ring. I thought GT4P was basically a Work in Progress of GT4 that was made available to the public. There were several versions afterwards, and I believe each version was only a slight change in what to expect for the full product. I guess you could say that all the seperate Prologues added up to the full product we now lovingly call... Gran Turismo 4.

So where does Vision Gran Turismo stand? You can just look at the name and get a sense that we're getting a vision about the next GT. It is almost as if we're calling up one of those psychics and a psychic gives us a vision about what GT5 will be like. Put together a vision of the future, and everything you love about Gran Turismo and more, the end result? Vision Gran Turismo. Or let me bring up another example. And this one is ONLY if you've beaten Gran Turismo 1 or at least seen it. Do you remember that high-res version of Gran Turismo 1 made available after you won all the races? I think it was "GT Hi-Fi" or something. Unlocking that mode gave you an idea of what's being worked on for a future GT game. This is true even though it was only you on the track racing the two street courses. For high-profile games, you ALWAYS want to do this. Always look for certain features later in the game because chances are, you may end up seeing it again or made better. For example, GT4 had LMPs and GTPs, including many classics, snow courses, tougher rallies, longer endurances... look to the future, my friends. With Vision Gran Turismo, enVISION a much more complex GT racing game with 20 or so cars on the track. Envision everything you loved about GT4 made better with the next game. Envision maybe more visible, active drivers, including some top-down action with convertibles. Perhaps envision many more classic race cars around the wide world of Gran Turismo. We haven't seen anything of GT5, so of course we'll have GT4 cars. So I still think this isn't a tech demo. There's a technique in analyzing Vision Gran Turismo. It's called "reading between the lines."
 
I am a software developer and i think that because PD and Sony are so close to each other they might have done something that would allow PS3 to improve upon GT4 without downloading any patches.

Most software comes with a configuration file which is tweaked to get the proper performance on a given system.

If you watch carefully you can see that as cars in GT4 move further from the camera the poly count drops dramatically, reflections get much worse, and the wheels arent rendered any more instead they just get crappy circles. Also on numerous courses we can see a "popping" effect when certain structures suddenly appear in the distance, this is because the "draw" distance is reduced for performance but it should be as big as possible.

For GT4 on ps3, i would expect that the software could determine what system it is running on and use a different set of configuration values.

The result would be picture mode quality realtime rendered graphics. longer draw distances, and the reduction in poly to be made at longer distances to make it much more invisible to our eye, even on an HDTV. With the addition of more cars being present on most courses.

If not.. this can be DEFINATLY expected from the new title. As well as much better sound. I have read that PD had taken really good sound samples from all the cars from many angles at 1000rpm intervals.. It somehow didnt get into the gt4 build because the cars sound like crap! hopefully the next GT game will get the benefits of all the numerous data that the team at PD collected.
 
As I stated, if you look at this as GT4 V2, you're not really getting anything out of this. We really have to read between the lines if we are to understand this all. It's a vision, and a vision that may come true. Then, may not come true. We may have 20 (or do you want to push?) to a track... then we may not. We may have a brand new graphics engine complete with rain effects, time cycles, dynamic weather changes, and more... then we may not. Hell, we can have Ferrari so for those complaining about not seeing them in a GT game finally have something to shut up about... then we may not.

This is all just a vision, but I see good things and then some. If they REALLY wanted to get serious about making this vision true and show off the system's capabilities, they would put on 20 "Tank Cars" on the track with 60 FPS! ;) But this is something you have to think about. If there's another Gran Turismo released in Japan, we'll have to look at that as well. Let's say this other addition would be "Gran Turismo Concept 2" or "Gran Turismo 5: Prolouge." Soon as these come out, you'll have to study the game in addition to what the future may hold for the series. I don't just play and see racing games, I try to study them. The basis of my many references and analyses on Gran Turismo in relation to other games (racing games nonwithstanding) has come from years of gameplay and loads of concepts presented. I've seen almost everything and anything can happen with the next GT game. I'd probably go out on a limb to say that what GT5 will have will surprise most of us. Like, we're going to know only so much. Who knows? There may be visible tire marks, even reverse lights (for those who prayed for this), and all sorts of things.

Think things through and through. It may not just a tech demo, you know.
 
the BARs ride height is waaay to hight and the dimensions look all wrong, graphics looks sweet tho, gotta get me a ps3!

Whats the point of releasing GT4 on the ps3 with loads of cars, why not wait, beef up the graphics a bit and then release a new game, although the idea about having ps3 code on the GT4 disc, i doubt its there. Wouldnt it take up a load of room ? The ps3 uses blue ray discs which can store alot more info, i imagine the new gt will be on one of these either with new gt4 graphics or not. Therefore i rekon they are gona release it as standalone gt5.
 
I personally think that the "vision gran turismo" video, as people have suggested it not neccessarily GT5. I think its multiple replays of usual GT4 races put together and super-imposed onto a single replay to make it look like 16+ cars racing at the same time, which is why you'll notice there are often 'car doubles' on the track in any clip (which never happens in GT4). There is also never a clip with say.. 6+ cars in very very close proximity and to be honest the graphics are the same as GT4. The pit crews have simply been 'done up' too look good, but essentially its a video of gt4.... i think.


Even so, 16+ cars for GT5 is a possibility! .. Whhoooooooohooooo 👍 :)
 

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