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Corvettes European woes - Evo
- Thread starter forza2.0
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- JCE3000GT
The suspension in the C6 and ZO6 may suit Americans for the daily drive but I think that maybe with something as simple as an independant rear suspension would actually improve the cars ride AND track performance. The ZO6 could be even BETTER with a more modern suspension. That's all I'm saying. I'm not bashing it, I just think there could be room for improvement. So what if it adds $3k USD to the price of the car--it would be well worth it.
Roo
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cause you would need a fuel tanker following you everywhere you went?
iirc the monaro did sell very well in the uk,it was just brought over in small numbers but im pretty sure they all sold.
the Interceptor
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- theInterceptor77
It's not that bad, just as with the Corvette, which is surprisingly economical (within sporty measures of course) as well. And the STis and M5s are not the fuel sippers of the automotive world either.
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The only pictures of TVR interior I've ever seen were rather sparce with normal comforts. So, if you can show me some pics of the range of TVR interiors maybe I can re-assess my opinion.
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well what do you define as normal featuresif you look in TVR's most of the air con etc is controlled view knobs around the steering wheel,not on the central console where you would normally find those controls.
Well the pics that I've seen of a TVR's interior shows bare fibreglass (or aluminum?) with no radio or air con. Maybe that isn't true for all TVRs? I am guilty of basing my opinion on a few pics--but I'd like to believe that you could get a decent enough interior for the money you pay.
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- JMarine25
I still think the C6 could have been styled more like a shorter C5. There are a number of dimensions I don't like about the C6. This, even though my current Myspace picture is me in a C6 Convertible < see for yourself: http://www.myspace.com/22957000 >. Or maybe Corvette sales are slipping because of their 2007 Le Mans defeat ^_^.
All joking aside, I'm not real sure why this car isn't doing so well in Europe. There seems to be some sort of issues regarding bringing some of a nation's best cars and trucks into another market. It's like this:
* Kei/mini cars are widely regarded in Europe and Asia, but stumble in America.
* SUV's are very well regarded in America, but not as much in Europe and perhaps Asia and Australia as well.
And it isn't like the Corvette doesn't have a huge following. Look at the Barrett-Jackson auctions. You'll see more classic Corvettes for auctioning than almost any other American car except a Camaro or Mustang. And I agree with my Manchester buddy Dave A. I'd think Corvettes would be nicely regarded in Europe. What's not to love? It would be tough trying to woo someone in England to own a Corvette instead of a Lotus or a TVR. Some people are more like "why own a Porsche when you can have a much less expensive Corvette?" I don't know how a sports car like the Corvette could stumble in Europe. Or perhaps in all due respect... not much of a market or interest to have a true American sports car like the Corvette.
How does GM get into the European game with their flagship sports car?
All joking aside, I'm not real sure why this car isn't doing so well in Europe. There seems to be some sort of issues regarding bringing some of a nation's best cars and trucks into another market. It's like this:
* Kei/mini cars are widely regarded in Europe and Asia, but stumble in America.
* SUV's are very well regarded in America, but not as much in Europe and perhaps Asia and Australia as well.
And it isn't like the Corvette doesn't have a huge following. Look at the Barrett-Jackson auctions. You'll see more classic Corvettes for auctioning than almost any other American car except a Camaro or Mustang. And I agree with my Manchester buddy Dave A. I'd think Corvettes would be nicely regarded in Europe. What's not to love? It would be tough trying to woo someone in England to own a Corvette instead of a Lotus or a TVR. Some people are more like "why own a Porsche when you can have a much less expensive Corvette?" I don't know how a sports car like the Corvette could stumble in Europe. Or perhaps in all due respect... not much of a market or interest to have a true American sports car like the Corvette.
How does GM get into the European game with their flagship sports car?
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The Corvette is the US's only true sports/supercar. It is well developed for it's main market (95% of all sales?) it thrashes the imported competition when it comes to price and it it holds a huge place in US hearts.
In Europe it's still a good price for the performance compared to it's competitors - but it's not a great price. Whether it's acurate or not these days, Vette's still have an image of being a bit crude, to Europeans at least. We also have a multitude of home grown sports cars of a similar ilk to the Vette, so competition is much stronger.
Looking at reviews from various European sources, it would appear that the two main factors that stop it from selling well over here are:
a) The need for a more sophisticated suspension set-up. Try chassis testing on some typical euro B-roads instead of endless laps of the Ring. Driver feedback and handling finesse rate much higher here than skid-pan and slalom figures ever will do.
b) A relatively low-rent looking interior. Multifunctioning seats and multiple cup-holders are of little or no interest to European sportscar owners (look at how popular the Elise/Exige is over here). You could almost mistake a Vette interior for that of a well-spec'd Vauxhall Vectra. Forget the gimicks and spend the money saved on making the interior a little less run-of-the-mill and a bit more exotic.
Add to this a steering wheel on the righthand side for us Brits and there's no reason why you couldn't shift a large chunk of units in Europe too.
In Europe it's still a good price for the performance compared to it's competitors - but it's not a great price. Whether it's acurate or not these days, Vette's still have an image of being a bit crude, to Europeans at least. We also have a multitude of home grown sports cars of a similar ilk to the Vette, so competition is much stronger.
Looking at reviews from various European sources, it would appear that the two main factors that stop it from selling well over here are:
a) The need for a more sophisticated suspension set-up. Try chassis testing on some typical euro B-roads instead of endless laps of the Ring. Driver feedback and handling finesse rate much higher here than skid-pan and slalom figures ever will do.
b) A relatively low-rent looking interior. Multifunctioning seats and multiple cup-holders are of little or no interest to European sportscar owners (look at how popular the Elise/Exige is over here). You could almost mistake a Vette interior for that of a well-spec'd Vauxhall Vectra. Forget the gimicks and spend the money saved on making the interior a little less run-of-the-mill and a bit more exotic.
Add to this a steering wheel on the righthand side for us Brits and there's no reason why you couldn't shift a large chunk of units in Europe too.
///M-Spec
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Corvettes have had IRS since the C2
Maybe you were thinking Corvettes could use coil springs instead of leafs. I don't believe the Corvette's suspension deserves the stigma it has: There are a lot of positive qualities of the composite transverse leaf springs and I don't think it would be fair to say that the entire suspension isn't modern. What most people don't realize is the C6 uses unequal length double wishbones on all 4 wheels; similar to an Indy or F1 car. Double wishbones are in fact more sophisticated than the McPherson strut used in the front axle of cars like the 911, M3, Evo and WRX STI.
The leafs are there simply to provide resistance; it's got the same job as a coil spring, except they weigh less than coil springs and are more compact. They are in fact, more expensive than coil springs and would probably save money if GM put steel coils in there. (though I doubt they would; the leafs are as much a part of Corvette heritage as the fiberglass body and pushrod V8)
Would a C6 handle better if it were converted to use coils? Maybe, though I wouldn't be quick to jump to that conclusion; it could just as well be some shock or bushing stiffness tuning the car needs.
M
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The Z06 had always had an edge, to it, anyway. First-Gen cars were forgiving, to a point, and then they bit you HARD for driving stupid.
naturally, the Z06 is going to be relatively low-tech, since I'll bet many of these other manufacturers have such tight tolerances on many of their steering parts to get "that feel", and do so much chassis work, that the price of said cars is sent into the stratosphere. The 'Vette's always been a bit less expensive, but put up similar nmbers to it's rivals. It's just not as refined-feeling, and I guess that's what Euro-biased Evo would like to see.
Of course, the American magazines are going to rate the 'Vette higher. it's American, after all. Although, usually, Porsche 911s beat it in comparison tests, (on that "Feel factor") the C6 Z06 is usually in there for a podium. So, Perhaps, you take all these, put it together, and maybe you get a midpack car.
naturally, the Z06 is going to be relatively low-tech, since I'll bet many of these other manufacturers have such tight tolerances on many of their steering parts to get "that feel", and do so much chassis work, that the price of said cars is sent into the stratosphere. The 'Vette's always been a bit less expensive, but put up similar nmbers to it's rivals. It's just not as refined-feeling, and I guess that's what Euro-biased Evo would like to see.
Of course, the American magazines are going to rate the 'Vette higher. it's American, after all. Although, usually, Porsche 911s beat it in comparison tests, (on that "Feel factor") the C6 Z06 is usually in there for a podium. So, Perhaps, you take all these, put it together, and maybe you get a midpack car.
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- JMarine25
Seems like more of you just want the Corvette to be better appropriated for European use and not so much American use. Unless the [Saleen] S7 isn't doing well in Europe, I always thought this was a true American supercar. Anyone else want to key in on how to make the Corvette a better seller in Europe?
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Give it a full high quality leather interior and offer it in rhd in the UK. Then the Corvette has a chance of doing well.
JCE, I wouldn't question someone's preference on cabin style, for that you can love or hate TVR's, that's upto you. But styling aside, the TVR cabin is (and this is from experience) made with much higher quality materials than the C6 Vette interios. And like I asid, all TVR's come with air con and a CD player standard, so I still don't know what TVR's you were referring to when you said you saw ones that didn't, especially now you say it looked like the Sagaris' one, which means it's probably a current model.
JCE, I wouldn't question someone's preference on cabin style, for that you can love or hate TVR's, that's upto you. But styling aside, the TVR cabin is (and this is from experience) made with much higher quality materials than the C6 Vette interios. And like I asid, all TVR's come with air con and a CD player standard, so I still don't know what TVR's you were referring to when you said you saw ones that didn't, especially now you say it looked like the Sagaris' one, which means it's probably a current model.
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- GTP_Kent
Corvettes don't sell in Europe...
As an import, I don't think the Corvette is a good "buy."
With the natural raise in price and the limited appeal of the Vette, I just don't see why the news from Evo is suprising.
Not many people in life get to buy and own cars like Corvettes (none the less 911s). When given the chance to buy a Vette it is wise to consider your "position" in life. Should you buy a car of this nature (semi-unforgiving daily driver focused on track performance)? Can you afford the price as well as the maintainance? Reliability, total running cost, even taxation upon purchase... All of these issues come to light.
The 911... As a Domestic...
Far better buy than a Corvette import.
Many other Euro sports cars... As domestics...
Much better "buys" than a Corvette import.
When given the oppurtunity to purchase any car on the European market with the budget equivalent to that of a Corvette purchase, I would buy a car other than a Corvette. I am an American living in America.
None the less, the Corvette is one heck of a car. 👍
Here at home, if I had to pick the fastest $50,000 sportscar... I'd definately pick the Corvette. 
As an import, I don't think the Corvette is a good "buy."
With the natural raise in price and the limited appeal of the Vette, I just don't see why the news from Evo is suprising.
Not many people in life get to buy and own cars like Corvettes (none the less 911s). When given the chance to buy a Vette it is wise to consider your "position" in life. Should you buy a car of this nature (semi-unforgiving daily driver focused on track performance)? Can you afford the price as well as the maintainance? Reliability, total running cost, even taxation upon purchase... All of these issues come to light.
The 911... As a Domestic...
Far better buy than a Corvette import.
Many other Euro sports cars... As domestics...
Much better "buys" than a Corvette import.
When given the oppurtunity to purchase any car on the European market with the budget equivalent to that of a Corvette purchase, I would buy a car other than a Corvette. I am an American living in America.
None the less, the Corvette is one heck of a car. 👍
Here at home, if I had to pick the fastest $50,000 sportscar...
I'd definately pick the Corvette.
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- JMarine25
But what if you're a European who's more like "money is not an object," would you still take the priciest Porsche or Ferrari over a Corvette? Would you be satisfied with a Corvette in Europe than any of Europe's finest cars in the Corvette's class?
Roo
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I wasn't even aware the S7 was sold in Europe as a road car.
The only reason I can think of for owning a Corvette over a Porsche or Ferrari in the UK is so you can drive something different. It'll turn heads, but so will a TVR or a (in this price bracket) second-hand Ferrari. On the continent, where they all drive on the right anyway, making the 'vette's LHD not a problem, it isn't selling for the same reasons already mentioned (European vs American tastes etc.)
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No you wouldn't - because, "Money no Object", means you're after the image that comes with the sportscar - if you were after performance only, the Corvette might have some sort of edge. But if money's no object, why not a a car that is just as fast (or even faster), that won't have the middle-aged dentist image?
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but ask a s7 what this is?
You do realise the S7 races in GT class championships... and goes around track turns tighter than that.
[/extreme sarcasm]
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but ask a s7 what this is?
Dude, I really hope you are trying to make a joke. The S7 roadcar would and does outperform the likes of the Enzo and etc on a track.
I think he's trying to be humorous.
You realise Dodge Vipers do aswell.
Yea, but any Viper pales in comparison to the S7--seriously.
