(ETZ)Esattezza Autosport! Lancia Stratos "La Italiano" Model added

As motorsport constructors we have taken many factory vehicles and turned them into full race championship/series cars. With no GT Porsche variants in GT4 we asked ourselfs would it be possible to use a RUF platform to simulate the German RR machine in its full race version. Well after weeks of testing and developing the answer was yes. Though our equipement was limited, especially aerodynamics, we still managed to construct a JGTC GT500 competitive car. We even went as far as developing a Formula 1 inspired gearbox. When testing we chose an official JGTC vehicle to stand as the opposition. We were'nt able to get these cars on the track at the same time but we did do a 3 lap heat on Suzuka for each to compare times.



Being one second behind was certainly no upset to us. Especially since no one can determine the out come of a full championship race or entire series by a difference of one second on one course. But we have reached our goal to construct a competitive GT500 with the lack of some necessary equipement. Given the weight and aerodynamic advantage of the GTR we belive that it would be apparent that this RGT platform would suceed in a JGTC series.



SPECS
Boxers 6/3600cc
496ps/7700rpm
347.54ft.lb/5200rpm
Weigth: 1130kg


SETTINGS

Suspension
Rate: 8.3 11.4
Height: 64 64
Bound: 7 9
Rebound: 9 8
Camber: 2.9 1.4
Toe: -1 0
Stabilizer: 5 4

Trans

1. 3.891
2. 2.702
3. 2.009
4. 1.564
5. 1.231
6. .991

Fin: 3.440
Auto: 6

LSD
10/40/22

Brake Bias
Front: 8
Rear: 11

A most interesting combination of track, car and opposition, Soprano 👍.

The thread bump also means that I can hold my Shelby 427, AC 427 and Shelby Series 1 set-ups in eserve for a bit . Otherwise I would've posted one up tonight ... {tease }.

sukerkin

Otherwise I would've posted one up tonight ...

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Tosser.

ROFL - oh, all right . I'll put a submission together tonight when I've had time to recover from work.

In response to a friends interest in setting up a Shelby that could hold it's head high in the Japanese GT series, I worked up three cars - the Shelby Cobra 427, the AC Cobra 427 S/C and the Shelby Series 1.

The latter was the better by quite a margin but was also a doddle (English-speak for "Very easy") to dial in. The Shelby 427 was quite a challenge to tame and the work I did there made the AC Cobra more easily balanced when I came to it, despite appearances masking her being a very different car.



The hardware modifications required for working on the AC were:

Sports Exhaust
Racing Chip
Racing Tyres (Grade 3)
Racing Brakes and Balancer
Racing Suspension
Fully Custom Gearbox
Triple-Plate Clutch
Racing Flywheel
Carbon Propeller Shaft
Fully Custom LSD

The major problem to be overcome was the tendency to snap oversteer under braking and this characteristic has to be treated with respect even after tuning. Hard trail braking from high speed will bring this aspect of the cars nature to the fore and it is something to be experiemented with so that you know what to expect and how it can sometimes be useful. It will never feel good to me tho' for a car to snap 90 degress sideways - that upholstery costs money to clean after all .

The field I got the most favourable A-Spec result (191) against, as well as a good race, was:

Tom's Supra, Pennzoil Zexel, Xanavi Nismo, Pennzoil Nismo, Raybrig NSX




The lead might look good for Turn 2 Lap 1 but don't be deceived ... they soon close up





Squeezing the last inch of track out of the Horseshoe without hitting the wall is one of the suspension challenges of R246



Also, keeping the door closed via tight lines through the Concrete Canyon is very important when you don't have downforce and the opponents do



Probably the most important corner to get a good exit speed out of - the last turn before the huge S/F Straight



Keep it all together and the only thing the AI should be seeing is this view going away from them



The set-up detailed below we dialled in at Tokyo R246 but it works equally well at most tracks in the series ... we don't like to talk about Motegi Super Speedway tho' {whispers} it upsets our driver who, quite frankly, does not do well on this two corner course {/whisper}

Brakes: 6/2
Springs: 8.3/11.4
Ride Height: 113/113
Damper B: 4/5
Damper R: 9/8
Camber: 3/1
Toe: +1/+1
Stabalisers: 5/4

Gears: AutoSet 17 @ 3.540 {due to the torque available these are not fine-tuned per circuit and so could be improved}


TCS: 1 {really only necessary for grid starts}
LSD: 9/29/27

Ballast: 26 @ +15

Sample times for R246 (taken in-race) are in the 1'39's - 1'40's.

Hopefully people will enjoy trialing this one as I took pride in getting the cheaper, heavier and less powerful British Cobra to perform better (for me) that the later Shelby re-design.

ROFL! Thats insane, Cobra variants are dangerous lol. You're truly taking things to a new level sukerkin I cant deny.

we don't like to talk about Motegi Super Speedway tho'

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^Lol'd at this!

I am glad that what I'm producing is fitting in with MKT's ethos 👍. I'm getting a lot out of it myself too as I'm now finding the time and the chance to work on cars that I've been meaning to dial in at 'higher' spec than I've used them elsewhere (where Road/Sports tyres and low HP were the order of the day for A-Spec points).

Also, I love what you're doing with the Shop Front. I think as the thread gets longer and more and more models get added in, it will a godsend for customers coming through the door to be able to browse easily for something that catches their eye 👍.

In the same idea as the AC 427 you just did, you should do a Ginetta G4! They're both very fast, classic British FRs with curvy styling. Only, while the 427 specializes in getting around the track with a high power, the G4 will do it with a low power! I think it would be a cool addition to your garage.

I can't wait till i get to test out the record Nurbergring car , by chance when do y'all think it will be out? It's cool if y'all cant set a specific date, I wish you the best of luck 👍

'92_NSX_Type_R

I can't wait till i get to test out the record Nurbergring car , by chance when do y'all think it will be out? It's cool if y'all cant set a specific date, I wish you the best of luck 👍

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You must have been reading my mind. The top secret record car should be done tonight. The photo shoots all done but I still have to make some minor tweaks. We've broken the production record held by the Radical SR8 by far, but we are still a few seconds off our goal of the Group C 926's time. Im glad to see you're interested

Great I can't wait lol. I've been trying to get into the 7 minute rage for about a month now and haven't even gotten close. Maybe because I don't know the track for 🤬

EA11R

In the same idea as the AC 427 you just did, you should do a Ginetta G4! They're both very fast, classic British FRs with curvy styling. Only, while the 427 specializes in getting around the track with a high power, the G4 will do it with a low power! I think it would be a cool addition to your garage.

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Not a bad idea at all, EA11R. I've been wrestling with a sports-tyred Ford GT '05 all week to some frustration at the 'Ring. I have real-life motorsport planned (as a spectator) this week-end but I can guarantee I'll take a look at the Ginetta soon.

Almost done, give me about 45mins until completion.

Edit: I also just noticed I didn't list the parts list for my RGT 500. I'll fix that when im done.

Cool, cant wait

I present to you the ZZII Benchmark. The purpose of this project is to take a production vehicle and beat Jochen Mass's record of 6'16.85 on Nurburgring. In 1983 he accomplished this record with the Group C Porshe 926. In order to dominate Nordschleife, I needed a car that would be able to put out as much power as a Group C vehicle, and also keep all that power to the ground. It has a light weight engine and body, sitting on an AWD system borrowed from Nissan and knowing the potential of the RB26, I figured if I could get 900-1000ps on a 1000kg platform I would then have my ideal project. The Skyline itself was to big, heavy and slow in the corners and also too mainstream for our taste. The ZZII was the perfect candidate. We did have a few trials before triumph though, crashing the first protoype several times.., Driving this car has helped me learn more about Nurburgring thus increasing my skill and technique level. I began to know exactly how the car would behave on each meter of road thus, I was able to contradict mistakes and flaws that I thought before were unavoidable.


Steffan I believe holds the overall fastes lap recorded of 6'11.xxx, also in the Porsche 926. This goal is definitely reachable in the MKT ZZII but it wont be done in one sitting. The car has only been driven on Nurburgring and no where else, and we've accumulated 138.7 miles from testing. The car is extremely maneuverable and can speradically move in and out of lines similar to a Group C or F1 vehicle.



First we will get a 6 minute, sub 15 second beating Jochens record.
Then we will aim for Bellofs record attempting to break into the 6 minute, sub-10s.
Currently we stand very close to the 6'16 second mark..,

Record Goals​

What did we do to achieve this?

SPECS
DOHC Line 6 (RB26)
2568cc & 870ps
Weight: 1000kgs
Mileage: 138.7 (On Nurb alone)

PARTS LIST
FC LSD
Turbo: Stage 4
FC Suspension
Tires: R3
VDC Controller
Roll Cage (optional, suicide without)

SETTINGS

Suspension
Rates - 10.5 / 10.5
Height - 102 / 107
Bound - 3 / 5
Rebound - 4 / 5
Camber - 2.7 / 1.7
Toe - 0 / 1
Stabilizers - 4 / 3

Gear Ratios
(Auto set then adjust 6th)

1. 3.194
2. 2.101
3. 1.512
4. 1.144
5. 0.909
6. 0.697

Final - 4.176
Auto - 15

Downforce
Front - 44 / 46

LSD
Int - 10 / 10
Accel - 38 / 38
Decel - 18 / 20

Brake Bias
Front - 6
Rear - 7


We are NOT done. In the next four days begining tomorrow I will attempt to break the goal records and present an analysis from my saved replay to determine and share ideas on where I can go faster, what mistakes I made and what the car has taught me on this course.

Things to come:

• Replay Analysis
• Prototype pics and wreck
• My personal Nurburgring Nordschleife Analysis
• New world record.

Soprano 3 1 3

ROFL! Thats insane, Cobra variants are dangerous lol. You're truly taking things to a new level sukerkin I cant deny.

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Aww come on, I did a Cobra on sports tyres.

I like the way you set seemingly impossible benchmarks and beat them.

hmm.. is that 100kg weight a typo or does it mean 100kg ballast?

nd 4 holden spd

Aww come on, I did a Cobra on sports tyres.

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Yea, and thats why I now know how dangerous they can be because I drove yours remember

Leonidae

hmm.. is that 100kg weight a typo or does it mean 100kg ballast?

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Good eye mate, thats totally a typo, its supposed to be 1000kgs. Thanks for the catch.

nd 4 holden spd

Aww come on, I did a Cobra on sports tyres.

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An oddity I have found is that it is often easier to dial in some cars on what should be 'worse' tyres. This came to light with one of my Esprit set-ups for the 'Ring. It was fine on Normal and Sports boots but was a snap-oversteering nightmare on R tyres.

My personal theory is that the lower grip lets the traction be lost more gradually rather than the tyres resisting the forces building up in the suspension up to the point where they can't hold any more and let-go.

I can't recall if I ever worked-up a Cobra on Sports tyres - sounds like fun.

I'm still wrestling with the Ford GT '05 at present - nearly got her but Tiergarten is still a 'roll of the dice'. I'll try again tonight and if I can't get her to keep the back at the back I may have to weld on a 'tea-tray'. I don't want to as my challenge to myself was to succeed without downforce but if the car needs it then I'll have to admit to 'failure' .

Nice work with the ZZ, Soprano. I've not driven one in GT4 yet and doing a bit of testing for you might just be the place to start 👍.

Sorry guys, my power has been out over the weekend. There was a recent storm that caused branches from a neighbors tree to rip down a couple power lines. We just got the tree cut down today but still no word on when Edison (Detroit electrical Co.) will be out to make the repairs. At the moment I'm using a friends PC but I will try to keep in touch.

Hey I just wanted to let y'all know that I did reach 6'27.XXX in the Nissan Motul Pitwork Z with just a little tuning, but I'm still having a little trouble on trying to get the extra 11.XXX off my final time . Also I will try to get a pic of it up asap

Nice to hear you're having fun and making progress, NSX 👍.

I've spent the past three weeks or so working on the Ford Gt '05, trying to get it to the point it can can do sub-7-minute laps of the Nurburgring and do two of them wthout crashing.

S2 tyres and no aerodynamic modifications have made this a real challenge and I've had three frustrating 'false dawns' i.e. I thought I'd gotten her to a satisfactory state at the end of a tuning session but when I come back to her the next day she handles like a bag of spanners.

Still, I think she's ready to post up now - after a cautious check tonight to see if she's still driveable or not .

Ford GT '05 - Prize Car Model

Our client for this one has a passion for running the Nurburgring in cars that allegedly are a nightmare, or at least problematic, to drive.

He wanted us to set up the Ford GT '05 to successfully lap the 'Ring in under 7 minutes and to be able to do two laps without crashing.

Easy we thought, our heads already planning on which R-Grade tyres to fit and which aero-package to choose. Then the proviso's were added: S2 tyres and no aerodynamic enhancements.

We haggled on what modifications we could perform to the hardware and eventually we got concessions to use much of what would be useful but for some reason he wouldn't pay for a Stage 3 Weight Reduction set of replacement parts.

So, the hardware list came out like this:

S2 Tyres
Racing Brakes & Balancer
Racing Suspension
3-Plate Clutch
Racing Flywheel
Fully Custom Gearbox
Fully Custom LSD
Stage 2 Weight Reduction (1320kg)

The first problem to be tackled was the very high rear tyre-wear rate. In the end, after a lot of experimenting, we could not equalise the rates between front and rear but we did manage to slow down the shredding of the rears.

Then came the frustration of the snap-oversteer on braking from high speeds and the tendency of the car to 'swap ends' on bumpy cornering. Our first approach had things softened down and was an attempt to enhance track compliance. It worked to an extent but we realised that what we had actually achieved was to slow the car down enough and induce a monumental enough amount of understeer to ameliorate the effect. Well done us - we'd replaced one handling malfunction with another .

We threw that one away and put what we had learned about the nature of the car into another suite. Much stiffer and feistier handling but, with the driver in control rather than along for the ride, faster. Early braking where at all possible is necessary to keep her on the black stuff but really, with a heavy car going at 200mph on sports rubber, we were expecting a bit much.

Here're some shots from testing:

Turn 1 ... again. We put over a 1000 miles on this car !



Straightline speed was never a problem:





At the bottom of Fuchsrohre, a wide line avoiding the inside curbs 'dip' was necessary:



Around Kallenhard, on the other hand, a tight line was best with speeds kept down to around 100mph:



Early braking followed by early on the power helped at Angst Kurve



Eschbach was a trouble-free pleasant surprise:



The ballast in the nose shows it's prescence here at Pflanzgarten:



The set-up we finally settled on is as follows:

Brakes: 5/3
Springs: 11.2/13.4
Ride: 113/113
Damper Bound: 3/3
Damper Rebound: 7/8
Camber: 2.4/0.9
Toe: +2/-1
Stabalisers: 5/5

Gears: 10@3.360 then adjust 2nd and 3rd to 2.298 and 1.666

LSD: 11/32/16
TCS: 3 (tyre wear reduction and assists in stopping bump-induced loss of rear traction)

Ballast: 151 @ -50

She's an exciting drive but also demands a little patience. You can't go shoving nearly 560 HP through tyres designed for much less and not anticipate havng to use a bit of restraint on the loud pedal . Pflanzgarten II in particular necessitates a gentle entry with the throttle only coming in full force when you can see the distinctive 'double trees' in the distance - an excellent aim point for straightlining the curves as much as possible. Also, getting the entry speed down to the Tiergarten chicane complex is very advisable. You're much more likely to successfully exit if you went in at 160mph than 200mph .

Variation EDIT Ford GT '05 - Production Car Model:

If using the purchased 'production' car from the Ford Dealership rather than the Prize car, the above can be altered a little to take advantage of the higher downforce available from the stock body.

Adjust Dampers, Stabalisers and LSD as follows:

Damper B: 2/3
Damper R: 6/8
Stabalisers: 5/6
LSD: 11/30/16

These small changes make a two lap race of the 'Ring in 14 minutes a possibility, providing the AI don't hold you up too much. Flugplatz and Tiergarten in particular are very much easier in this car than the Prize Car model.

Wow.., 1000 miles is very impressive sukerkin. In fact I believe you've just set a benchmark here at MKT. All our vehicles are thoroughly tested but you've taken it to a new level once again. I also think that Ballast is a necesity when tuning this machine. But im amazed at the absence of added downforce to the rear, which you do see often on tuned GTs.., Is that another benchmark? And also, I as well had been frustrated with the snap oversteer when tuning the old GT. You have my kudos for the long period of developement and not scraping the project lol.

The GT isn't that hard to get to handle decent.

It's just impossible to get it to stop. Especially when you feed it 700hp or so on S3s. With no downforce.

It is quite hard to get it to handle at the 'Ring, RJ.

Other courses I have found do not offer the same degree of extremity in the handling that you get at Fuchsrohre/Adenauer, Angst Kurve, Pflanzgarten or Tiergarten.

I'm sure that I am reading your tone incorrectly, as it seems a touch on the belittling side?

I'm quite proud of how I've gotten this PD-wrecked car to handle within the limits of the physics engine and the goals I set for myself. So you can imagine I'm less than thrilled if the only comment I get is so dismissive .

sukerkin

It is quite hard to get it to handle at the 'Ring, RJ.

Other courses I have found do not offer the same degree of extremity in the handling that you get at Fuchsrohre/Adenauer, Angst Kurve, Pflanzgarten or Tiergarten.

I'm sure that I am reading your tone incorrectly, as it seems a touch on the belittling side?

I'm quite proud of how I've gotten this PD-wrecked car to handle within the limits of the physics engine and the goals I set for myself. So you can imagine I'm less than thrilled if the only comment I get is so dismissive .

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Sorry if I sounded like I was making your achievement look small and insignificant. I wasn't.

In comparison to getting it to stop quick, getting it to handle isn't bad. That said, it is still evil, and if you've managed to create an all-rounder, then you've done impossibly well.

Building a car for the 'Ring is far from just simply setting up a car to handle, apparently.
I've never seen a more thorough display of a specifically tuned car and its behavior on the 'Ring presented on this site..,
Thus I dont think anyone actually has the credability to tell the constructor rather it should be hard or not.
Obviously theres more than a list of settings thrown up on the board.

Soprano 3 1 3

Building a car for the 'Ring is far from just simply setting up a car to handle, apparently.
I've never seen a more thorough display of a specifically tuned car and its behavior on the 'Ring presented on this site..,
Thus I dont think anyone actually has the credability to tell the constructor rather it should be hard or not.
Obviously theres more than a list of settings thrown up on the board.

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I wasn't telling the constructor anything. I'm not a disrespectful prick (Fine, maybe I am, but I try not to be).

The only setups I've seen with more detail are those from Scaff; He put more work into his setups than anyone I've seen. At least in the presentation.

Cheers RJ 👍.

It was very late when I posted last night but I knew 'in my water' that I must've been missing the point you were driving at (yeah, automotive pun !). Thanks for taking the trouble to elaborate.

Braking performance certainly was one of the issues to tackle - it behaves as if, almost regardless of suspension, all the weight is thrown onto the fronts much more quickly than the tyres can handle . It is certainly one of those cars where you have to use threshold braking, particularly over the bumpy surfaces at the 'Ring. Brake too sharply where the track is uneven and she does have a disturbing tendency to sail straight on in a glorious display of plough understeer.

It was one of the infuriating oddities that she could act that way at one place and then snap the back-end around at another, for all the world as if the rears had locked up .

In the end, I did find a suite of suspension and transmission settings that calmed her down in that respect, whilst quelling her tendency to throw herself off the track (as if she was made of two halves of different cars incompletely welded together).

The real braking challenge was to get her to survive entering Tiergarten on the second lap - that had me fuming time and again, particularly as it takes you nearly fourteen minutes of racing to get there to test if your changes have actually done any good :grr:.

In her final form, I still recommend that drivers brake prior to turning in to the first element of Tiergarten. I have made it through when going in at 200mph but more often than not the odd braking performance you pointed out means you end up touching the grass on the exit and that, as Hudson so famously said, is "Game over" .

I did have a suite that worked very well at Tiergarten, allowing more reliable full speed entry with late braking but it made her undriveable through Pflanzgarten so I discarded it. I wish I'd kept my records of that one for future reference, as I now reckon that, with a change of driving approach (i.e. slower ) Pflanzgarten might have been navigable but we had a clean-up of the computer room and those notes are gone .

Any road, I hope people have a try of her and enjoy being able to race the 'Ring in the Ford GT '05.