Epic GTP race series reveals Truth about 600PP

  • Thread starter Biggles
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atledreier
Then you obviosly haven't tried the R8. That's a pig to get going on the straights. Either that, or you just get really sucky exits in your rwd. The AWD cn carry more speed in the corners if skillfully driven, and get better exit. But a straight drag? No way. Could be tuning maybe?
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Err no, wrong. Try this, I got a better exit than a Lancer before, and I've done the same against WRXs (I'm using a Z06), only to be beaten on the straight. Slipstreaming I can just keep up. The R8 is the one exception, but it's really damn good in the corners to make up for that. I have similar problems with other RWD cars. It could be a bad torque curve in the Vette, that's what I've been blaiming it on. Down-tuning the LS7 to get into 600 PP isn't healthy for it. But the sheer torque figure should make up for that, which I think is still around 600 Nm. And it's not heavy either.:grumpy:
 
AWDs (R8, Evo, STi accelerate sooner & faster OUT of the corner than RWD. I find it especially noticeable after the Suzuka hairpin & the chicane.
 
Biggles
AWDs (R8, Evo, STi accelerate sooner & faster OUT of the corner than RWD. I find it especially noticeable after the Suzuka hairpin & the chicane.
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Which are corners that go directly onto long straight sections. You are absolutely correct. Higher cornering and exit speed=higher speed at the end of the straight. 👍
 
Which are corners that go directly onto long straight sections. You are absolutely correct. Higher cornering and exit speed=higher speed at the end of the straight.
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Having raced many, many R8s at Suzuka, I notice nuances in the relative performance, for instance: my Clio always catches up quickly on the long right-hander after the hairpin, less so after the chicane.

It seems that the faster R8 drivers, like Angelx, have managed to tweak much higher performance from the car, as I used feel easily competitive with R8s, now less so. :(
 
Last night was like the fun, "exhibition" racing after the previous night's display of testosterone-driven intensity (mine's bigger than yours :P). Bunch of messy races with a variety of cars. I particularly enjoyed the Elise races which were sooo genteel. The Evo drivers, presumably taking a break from GRID, managed to knock everyone of us off the track several times & still lose the races. :lol:
 
Biggles
Having raced many, many R8s at Suzuka, I notice nuances in the relative performance, for instance: my Clio always catches up quickly on the long right-hander after the hairpin, less so after the chicane.

It seems that the faster R8 drivers, like Angelx, have managed to tweak much higher performance from the car, as I used feel easily competitive with R8s, now less so. :(
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My experience (post the event change over) is a well set up and driven R8 is just about uncatchable for any RWD or MR as long as you can get in front going in to turn 1... it's so fast through the esses and dunlop, and so strong on the exits of the hairpin and spoon that the RWD/MR are too far behind to get in the draft along the back straight now there's no/less boost to help them catch up.

I'm starting to get bored of the R8 in the PP600... unless the opposition is very good it's just too easy to drive away from the pack and run a lonely race with no competition.
 
The R8 is astonishingly quick in the right hands, but it's just such a bore to drive. No thrill, no adrenaline. The Subaru WRX is quicker in my opinion, but harder to drive and so too is the NSX.

I wish more experienced and skilled drivers would switch to lesser machines to make for a more level playing field. But as soon as a decent driver rocks up to a grid, then everyone switches up their game by switching up to an AWD car. I'm one of the guilty ones, just ask Weary, or Sarlach or zabeu or Truth123. I'll usually be pottering around in a silly car like the SL55 or the Viper or a Jaguar, having mad tail-outs and dicing with some of the less-experienced drivers.

But once I see one of these guys on the grid, I'm off to get my trusty R8. Shame on me.

I'd love to see some of the more experienced guys in some more challenging machinery. Leave the easy cars to the noobs.

Anyone care to murder me over that suggestion? Stotty, Holden, Atledreier?

BTW, Holden I saw you the other weekend running some tests in the Audi TT. I was going to hold up for you and try and make a dice of it, but I figured that you were trialling 600PP setups, so I ran my normal race, so you could comment on the performance of a TT compared to an R8 in 600PP trim. Three seconds a lap if I'm not mistaken and that's just testament to how flawed the 600PP system is. I really look forward to having a good dice with another guy who knows what real beer tastes like, and I hope I can catch you on track sometime when you're racing for fun and not testing.

;)
 
My experience (post the event change over) is a well set up and driven R8 is just about uncatchable for any RWD or MR as long as you can get in front going in to turn 1... it's so fast through the esses and dunlop, and so strong on the exits of the hairpin and spoon that the RWD/MR are too far behind to get in the draft along the back straight now there's no/less boost to help them catch up.
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Interesting you should say that. It seems to me that the "balance of power" changed significantly after the update. Previously, the Clio, so slow off the line, was able to take advantage of the boost to catch up with the R8s & then power past them on the faster sections of the track. I was able to motor past R8s on the back straight or the main straight like they were standing still. Not any more: this suggests to me that not only is the boost greatly reduced, but that drafting has also been reduced.

A while ago, someone (Wonderwiley?) mentioned that at Suzuka it's more of an advantage to be fast on the straights than through the corners, because it's easy to overtake on a straight, but very difficult to overtake on the corners, even if you're (potentially) faster. This relationship seems to have been reversed after the update, as the faster cars (F430, NSX, Clio) seem less competitive - the R8s, Evos & STis are just too fast powering through & OUT of the corners.

The R8 is astonishingly quick in the right hands, but it's just such a bore to drive.
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The R8 is a beautiful car to look at, but I don't find it fun to drive - & that whirring engine sound, I hate hearing that coming up behind me!
 
Murder you? Absolutely not, we all get enjoyment out of the game in our own way!

However, I don't find the R8 boring to drive... the fun is running perfect lines, getting you braking points spot on, hitting the gas at just the right moment to get maximum speed down the following straight and as a result of all these factors, hitting super fast lap times. The problem is that (and I'm not trying to sound arrogant here, but can't think of a more honest way to say it), unless I see a grid of good drivers (GTP, GTNDC, GTRP, etc or the un-tagged members of this site) I'm just driving away from the rest of the field and finishing with a 10-20 second gap to 2nd every race. It's not that I'm that fast, it's just the general standard of competition is low. And now the boost has gone the gaps just keep getting wider.

I find the RWD/MR cars on S2's just too much with the pad in a race... I can run reasonable laps with them in free run or time trial, but under race conditions, I'm not consistent enough with the steering or throttle input.

Looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and buy a G25 and wheelstand!
 
AERO_HDT
The R8 is astonishingly quick in the right hands, but it's just such a bore to drive. No thrill, no adrenaline. The Subaru WRX is quicker in my opinion, but harder to drive and so too is the NSX.

I wish more experienced and skilled drivers would switch to lesser machines to make for a more level playing field. But as soon as a decent driver rocks up to a grid, then everyone switches up their game by switching up to an AWD car. I'm one of the guilty ones, just ask Weary, or Sarlach or zabeu or Truth123. I'll usually be pottering around in a silly car like the SL55 or the Viper or a Jaguar, having mad tail-outs and dicing with some of the less-experienced drivers.

But once I see one of these guys on the grid, I'm off to get my trusty R8. Shame on me.
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You see, I tried doing that but it just left me hating the R8. I like the NSX but I personally prefer sticking to my Viper because I've got used to handling it. I still use my Jag! I remember racing you once, a couple of other people around here will remember a couple of my awesome finishes in it, lol, and those were around the times when we were plagued by Lotus Elise/Tuned in PP650.

I will continue to drive my XK proudly, it looks the business and I laugh at every person I beat with it. Don't think I'll ever get on the podium with it again though, with this reduced boost (sorry, handicap system).
 
The NSX is fun to drive, my one problem with it is the engine noise: it just sounds so lethargic - it never feels like it's going fast (also hard to see out the back!).
 
may I defend the MR?? :) (please note, that I may have not yet crossed the fastest 4wd drivers out there, ..still waiting to meet rudi, weary etc. post update, so I could judge better.. 👍)

I'm speaking from the f430 point of view.

EDK
Which are corners that go directly onto long straight sections. You are absolutely correct. Higher cornering and exit speed=higher speed at the end of the straight. 👍
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I haven't noticed earlier on-throttle points.. Pretty even in my mind..


Stotty
My experience (post the event change over) is a well set up and driven R8 is just about uncatchable for any RWD or MR as long as you can get in front going in to turn 1... it's so fast through the esses and dunlop, and so strong on the exits of the hairpin and spoon that the RWD/MR are too far behind to get in the draft along the back straight now there's no/less boost to help them catch up.

I'm starting to get bored of the R8 in the PP600... unless the opposition is very good it's just too easy to drive away from the pack and run a lonely race with no competition.
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Funny.. :) We should get a meeting, as I haven't meet any R8, that could keep up with me. I think this is worth testing.. 👍 ..also keeping up with the r8 in the esses is so far been a success.

AERO_HDT
I wish more experienced and skilled drivers would switch to lesser machines to make for a more level playing field. But as soon as a decent driver rocks up to a grid, then everyone switches up their game by switching up to an AWD car. I'm one of the guilty ones, just ask Weary, or Sarlach or zabeu or Truth123. I'll usually be pottering around in a silly car like the SL55 or the Viper or a Jaguar, having mad tail-outs and dicing with some of the less-experienced drivers.

But once I see one of these guys on the grid, I'm off to get my trusty R8. Shame on me.

;)
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Have asked Truth123 many times.. (lol).. no answer.. :( ..but easily the fastest NSX that I've met..

Biggles
A while ago, someone (Wonderwiley?) mentioned that at Suzuka it's more of an advantage to be fast on the straights than through the corners, because it's easy to overtake on a straight, but very difficult to overtake on the corners, even if you're (potentially) faster. This relationship seems to have been reversed after the update, as the faster cars (F430, NSX, Clio) seem less competitive - the R8s, Evos & STis are just too fast powering through & OUT of the corners.

The R8 is a beautiful car to look at, but I don't find it fun to drive - & that whirring engine sound, I hate hearing that coming up behind me!
Click to expand...

Again, no 4wd has yet escaped from me out of the corners... But the day will come, I know.. (and I look forward to it 👍)


Stotty
Murder you? Absolutely not, we all get enjoyment out of the game in our own way!

However, I don't find the R8 boring to drive... the fun is running perfect lines, getting you braking points spot on, hitting the gas at just the right moment to get maximum speed down the following straight and as a result of all these factors, hitting super fast lap times. The problem is that (and I'm not trying to sound arrogant here, but can't think of a more honest way to say it), unless I see a grid of good drivers (GTP, GTNDC, GTRP, etc or the un-tagged members of this site) I'm just driving away from the rest of the field and finishing with a 10-20 second gap to 2nd every race. It's not that I'm that fast, it's just the general standard of competition is low. And now the boost has gone the gaps just keep getting wider.

I find the RWD/MR cars on S2's just too much with the pad in a race... I can run reasonable laps with them in free run or time trial, but under race conditions, I'm not consistent enough with the steering or throttle input.

Looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and buy a G25 and wheelstand!
Click to expand...


...I really hope that we meet online! 👍 ..I know the lap time you have posted to my thread, so I want to see a REALLY fast R8 in action!!

👍
 
I only remember ever seeing you in the same race once a couple of weeks ago (blue F430?) and one of us got punted off early on... ONE DAY WE'LL MEET ;)
 
To win with an R8 against good F430 and NSX drivers you have to be in fron and stay there the whole race. I can guaranty that 99 percent of the time you will not be able to pass an f430 or nsx in the corners without causing an accident and passing on the straights is out of the question.

I can run 2'16 laps online while leading in the R8 but once i get stuck behind the MR cars I can only run 1'18 or so and it becomes really frustrating to not be able to pass.
 
angelx
To win with an R8 against good F430 and NSX drivers you have to be in fron and stay there the whole race. I can guaranty that 99 percent of the time you will not be able to pass an f430 or nsx in the corners without causing an accident and passing on the straights is out of the question.

I can run 2'16 laps online while leading in the R8 but once i get stuck behind the MR cars I can only run 1'18 or so and it becomes really frustrating to not be able to pass.
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Agreed. To overtake either of those if they are being well driven requires a 'forceful' move... though there is one place I've had success previously (though I can't remember ever being behind one since the event change).
 
Biggles
3) It really feels like the "online boost" is mostly gone - anyone falling behind in such a competitive field had little chance to move back up unless another driver made an error. Gains made against the field were hard-won & seemed to be measured in one or two seconds a lap rather than 9 or 10.
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I had a chance to test this in our NTSC GTP-fest last night.

The Venue: Suzuka 600pp, driving an 07 WRX STi
The Competition: an 8 racer field, mostly GTP'ers

The setup: I went off from the lead in the esses on lap 1 to take a phone call (stupid telemarketer). When I rejoined the field, I was just a touch over one minute behind when I crossed T1 (before the hairpin). When I find myself in this position, I don't really expect to win or even threaten, but rather focus on closing as much distance as I can. By T2, I made up 4 seconds (against a field of

The lap: Lap 2, I ran a decent lap, but by no means stellar, making small line/braking mistakes on a couple corners. However, each timing line I made up another 4 seconds or so.

The result: My lap time for lap 2 was 2'13.954. Compare this to the best laptime recorded in free run of 2'15.876, also in an 07 WRX STi.

My own best freerun laptime in this car is somewhere in the 2'18 range.

So... the boost isn't gone. However, it may be reduced when closer to the front. Also, the reported handicap to the lead car may have been reduced or eliminated entirely.
 
Vaxen
So... the boost isn't gone. However, it may be reduced when closer to the front. Also, the reported handicap to the lead car may have been reduced or eliminated entirely.
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Agree with this completely... a bit of reduced boost for the car behind and much less (if any?) slowing down of the leadcar.
 
Stotty
Agreed. To overtake either of those if they are being well driven requires a 'forceful' move... though there is one place I've had success previously (though I can't remember ever being behind one since the event change).
Click to expand...

Would that by any chance be Dunlop curve?? thats were i can usually overtake unless they block me.
 
angelx
To win with an R8 against good F430 and NSX drivers you have to be in fron and stay there the whole race. I can guaranty that 99 percent of the time you will not be able to pass an f430 or nsx in the corners without causing an accident and passing on the straights is out of the question.

I can run 2'16 laps online while leading in the R8 but once i get stuck behind the MR cars I can only run 1'18 or so and it becomes really frustrating to not be able to pass.
Click to expand...

I agree with you completly if you could get enough space between my self and you through the esses then the race was pretty much over, but if i could say near you I could pass you on the straight, keep you behind me in the corners and pull away on the straights, I could sense the frustration. You are the only guy in the r8 that is fast enough to keep up with me though. I think I'm gonna give the r8 a try after yesterday, I have to say the f430 is more fun to drive and I have never been a fan of all wheel drive but the r8 is definetly the best car for 600
 
The result: My lap time for lap 2 was 2'13.954. Compare this to the best laptime recorded in free run of 2'15.876, also in an 07 WRX STi.
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...that's a bit shocking. I haven't noticed that, but perhaps I haven't been that much behind. I remember running a 2.10xxx from behind before the update.

Pre-update, I was confident the Clio & the F430 were faster than the R8 on the straights (they still are, but less so), but I would also always gain ground accelerating around Dunlop & the long curve following the hairpin. If an R8 got past me through the esses (not a very easy maneuver) I could still pull it back on the faster sections. Since the update, whether primarily because the good R8 drivers have improved their driving, have improved their tuning, or there has been some change in the relative balance of the cars, I can't tell for sure - but it seems obvious that the R8s (driven well) now have a clear 2 secs/lap advantage over what I'm capable of with the Clio :(

My only hope now is for a monumental collision amongst the R8s that allows me to sneak through the debris. :sly:
 

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