Kei cars: Did you ever like them?

homeforsummer · Mar 28, 2009

Toronado
I've wondered something ever since GT2 came out: Assuming the engine was made compliant, would the old Mini have fit under the Kei regulations?

Yes, though not when it was introduced because the Kei regulations were even more strict. Maximum width back in 1949 was only 1 metre wide!

Kei regs today: Width 1.48m, length 3.4m, height 2.0m
Mini: Width 1.40, length 3.05m (even the estate is only 3.4m), height 1.35m

So the engine would be the only restriction really. The smallest the Mini has ever had is 850cc and Keis require 660cc or less.

Incidentally, something like the smart, which you'd think would be alright, is actually too wide by about 3cm. And that's just the original smart, the new one is even wider.

slims · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD
kei cars are utter rubbish for the following reasons:

1. I can't fit in one.
2. A tortoise would outrun one at full throttle.
3. They rattle like hell at "high" speeds.
4. My girlfriend hates them.
5. They're all essentially golf carts on steroids.
6. Good luck modifying one
7. They look like they were originally decent cars that were prematurely recycled before Al Gore declared that they would pollute the world's landfills.

1. How tall are you? I'm almost 6ft 2" and I can fit in my friends Mira quite easily.
2. Yeah they're arent that fast but they're made for fuel efficiency not speed.
3. I haven't noticed this.
4. So cuz your girl hates them you hate them?
5. Callling them golf carts on steriods makes them sound awesome
6. Any car can be modified once you have the time and money.
7. Umm...what?

Plus you're forgetting the best part about them. Short wheelbase + knobby tires + light = so much fun to handbrake.

buickgnx88 · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD
kei cars are utter rubbish for the following reasons:

4. My girlfriend hates them.

*Insert whipping noise*

Tornado · Mar 28, 2009

I just remembered that old Car and Driver where they drove a Kei car into a mall.
:lol:

Keef · Mar 28, 2009

Apparently the Smart ForTwo has a version which qualifies as a Kei-car in Japan. It's just got a smaller engine than our 1.0L to fit the 660cc regulation. But yeah, the Smart is the only thing sold in America that's actually a Kei-car. Sweet.

EDIT:

homeforsummer
Incidentally, something like the smart, which you'd think would be alright, is actually too wide by about 3cm. And that's just the original smart, the new one is even wider.

Then it must also have skinnier fenders or something. On the Smart's Wiki page it says there's a special Japan-only version that meets Kei regs.

homeforsummer · Mar 28, 2009

Toronado
I just remembered that old Car and Driver where they drove a Kei car into a mall.

They weren't the only ones... Clarkson on old Top Gear (must be very early 90s ish):

Seriously, and if Clarkson can fit in one...

Keef
Apparently the Smart ForTwo has a version which qualifies as a Kei-car in Japan. It's just got a smaller engine than our 1.0L to fit the 660cc regulation. But yeah, the Smart is the only thing sold in America that's actually a Kei-car. Sweet.

EDIT:
Then it must also have skinnier fenders or something. On the Smart's Wiki page it says there's a special Japan-only version that meets Kei regs.

Really? I didn't actually know that, interesting info 👍

Tornado · Mar 28, 2009

I'm amazed that they don't laugh the thing out of the country in Japan. Compared to many of the cars they sell there, if smart advertises the fortwo anything like they do in America it would just come off as pretentious.

Keef · Mar 28, 2009

Just the name "Smart" actually has some traction here in America, but over in Japan they're like, no, not smart. They've been doing it for half a century.

mPWRD · Mar 28, 2009

buickgnx88
*Insert whipping noise*

aw shuddup mate... just because you don't have to consider a second opinion before you buy a car doesn't mean i don't... and plus... she's really car savvy. asked me if i could import a brera from europe for her... and she can't stand kei cars. fakes taking a shot at a smart everytime one passes.

Azuremen · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD
aw shuddup mate... just because you don't have to consider a second opinion before you buy a car doesn't mean i don't... and plus... she's really car savvy. asked me if i could import a brera from europe for her... and she can't stand kei cars. fakes taking a shot at a smart everytime one passes.

So basically your car buying decision depends on your girl friend...?

*insert whipping noises*

mPWRD · Mar 28, 2009

*eye roll* ... no it doesnt. i bought my used m3 even though she didn't like it.

Edit: to address your concerns as to my ignorance of kei cars:

@homeforsummer: i was merely commenting on their appearance, not how they came about. read it again carefully. (and you only edit quotes to emphasize something, not to add something)
@eiriksmil: all of those made my eyes bleed. they are too boy-racer type... i do like the modded autozam though.
@slims: i'm 6'6"
@all of you haters: just because i post something berating kei cars doesn't mean you launch an ad-hominem attack on me. it's not as if i don't like small cars. i just don't like the ones that are too small. mainly because they're slow. and i hate anything slow. including slow people.

ROAD_DOGG33J · Mar 28, 2009

Toronado
Compared to many of the cars they sell there, if smart advertises the fortwo anything like they do in America it would just come off as pretentious.

They probably don't, at least if they are at least decent at marketing.

mPWRD
@all of you haters: just because i post something berating kei cars doesn't mean you launch an ad-hominem attack on me. it's not as if i don't like small cars. i just don't like the ones that are too small. mainly because they're slow. and i hate anything slow. including slow people.

chillax. man.

Azuremen · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD
aw shuddup mate... just because you don't have to consider a second opinion before you buy a car doesn't mean i don't...

=/=

mPWRD
*eye roll* ... no it doesnt. i bought my used m3 even though she didn't like it.

Sounds like you don't have to consider the second opinion, so why say you do?

We've all just gone off how you've presented yourself and what you've posted.

Sniffs · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD, your just fishing for an admin boot or forcing a closed thread

Prower: finally got to see one at a car show, even up here. didn't know they were suicides (which is what CR, which uses cold scientific methods, calls anything but a HONDA)

Slims: we have a lot more room up here in the states. little cars have a reputation for being deathtraps. ever seen the size of our lorries? a lotta guys made fun of the Beetle over their CB's (they called it a "pregnant Roller Skate") there's various reasons why they'd be a hard sale. to me, it'd be the underpowered engines trying to climb up some of the kilometers-long hills at a nasty degree. everybody for a mile would be blasting their horns!

I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of america's Minis wouldn't fit Kei regs, but remember, back then, you were looking at low compression ratios and horsepower ratings, which matched kei power levels. just not engine size, I bet...

McLaren · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD
@all of you haters: just because i post something berating kei cars doesn't mean you launch an ad-hominem attack on me. it's not as if i don't like small cars. i just don't like the ones that are too small. mainly because they're slow. and i hate anything slow. including slow people.

Define slow then, as by today's standards, a Miura is slow b/c even a Toyota Solara can match it's 0-60.

eiriksmil · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD
@all of you haters

Who's the hater? Take a look in the mirror

mPWRD · Mar 28, 2009

thanks guys... note sniffs i'm NOT looking for an admin boot or a closed thread... i'm defending my position on kei cars. it's amazing how easily people can be sidetracked on these threads, including yours truly.

you are talking to someone who works with cars. i have turned away at least 30 street racers and sport-compact owners because i just don't like what they are doing to their cars. i generally work in the midrange with mustangs, bmw 3-series, that kind of stuff.

anyway, before we all get sidetracked again, i have a question for all you kei car lovers: why do you love them? maybe you could make me see some sense...

homeforsummer · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD
(and you only edit quotes to emphasize something, not to add something)

I can edit quotes however I like 👍

mPWRD
and she can't stand kei cars. fakes taking a shot at a smart everytime one passes.

Fair enough - that's an opinion, and we're all welcome to those - but likely she knows as little about Keis as you seem to.

mPWRD
anyway, before we all get sidetracked again, i have a question for all you kei car lovers: why do you love them? maybe you could make me see some sense...

Here are a few reasons - they're fun, they don't take up needless space on the roads, they don't need vast amounts of petrol or power to go quickly (and some of them do go quickly - as quickly as is necessary on public roads, at any rate), they look funky (in my opinion), they're packed with technology (as you'll see in that old top gear vid - rain sensing wipers and automatic lights even in 1991 - Mercedes, usually the pioneers of such technology, didn't have those things back then). They're also economical, which is never a bad thing (seriously, try and tell me that using vast amounts of fuel is a good thing), being Japanese they're likely to be above average for reliability, and they make a lot of sense in the country in which I live, which is filled with speed cameras, speed bumps and idiot drivers which reduce the need to have something vastly powerful.

And I don't expect any of the above to "make you see sense" - it would be wrong of me to force a viewpoint on you - but I do feel that your original post was based on very little knowledge of why the cars exist and the benefits of them. There didn't seem to be a lot of grounding as to how you formed your opinons, other than pure assumption. And you know what they say about assumption... :sly:

mPWRD · Mar 28, 2009

homeforsummer:Here are a few reasons - they're fun, they don't take up needless space on the roads, they don't need vast amounts of petrol or power to go quickly (and some of them do go quickly - as quickly as is necessary on public roads, at any rate), they look funky (in my opinion), they're packed with technology (as you'll see in that old top gear vid - rain sensing wipers and automatic lights even in 1991 - Mercedes, usually the pioneers of such technology, didn't have those things back then). They're also economical, which is never a bad thing (seriously, try and tell me that using vast amounts of fuel is a good thing), being Japanese they're likely to be above average for reliability, and they make a lot of sense in the country in which I live, which is filled with speed cameras, speed bumps and idiot drivers which reduce the need to have something vastly powerful.

And I don't expect any of the above to "make you see sense" - it would be wrong of me to force a viewpoint on you - but I do feel that your original post was based on very little knowledge of why the cars exist and the benefits of them. There didn't seem to be a lot of grounding as to how you formed your opinons, other than pure assumption. And you know what they say about assumption

Reply: hmm... i see... and i don't see.... i see why they make sense (that i knew already)... but i don't understand their appeal. that's the problem.
and i'm not stupid enough to think that using a lot of fuel is a good thing. i can deduce, that from your avatar (the Loremo) you are an eco car fanatic and expert.

and what exactly do they say about assumption? (seeing as that we've gotten over the ad hominems)

homeforsummer · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD
hmm... i see... and i don't see.... i see why they make sense (that i knew already)... but i don't understand their appeal. that's the problem.
and i'm not stupid enough to think that using a lot of fuel is a good thing. i can deduce, that from your avatar (the Loremo) you are an eco car fanatic and expert.

and what exactly do they say about assumption? (seeing as that we've gotten over the ad hominems)

The AUP restricts me from saying what they say about assumption, but needless to say it's the mother of all what-they-say-about-assumptions :lol:

It's a film reference. From Under Siege 2, I think. Or maybe it's from a Die Hard film. Not sure...

I appreciate that you seem to have taken a more balanced view though - I can completely understand you not seeing the appeal of Kei cars - it's better than slating them for reasons that don't support your arguement (such as not being able to fit into them, or finding that "they rattle at high speed"). Regardless, I'm happy to drop the issue if you are

Well spotted on the Loremo too. I do indeed like eco cars and small cars, though I'd stop short of calling myself a fanatic

More an "enthusiast". Even if the cars weren't "eco friendly" per se, I'd still appreciate them for their design and technology!

mPWRD · Mar 28, 2009

lol regardless of what you say, i still won't fit into one... :indiff:

and i was kind of pissed off at life earlier... my professor just rejected 4 straight paper proposals...

Rotary Junkie · Mar 28, 2009

mPWRD
lol regardless of what you say, i still won't fit into one...

So you're saying you're fat then, seeing as 6' 5" Jeremy Clarkson fit into a Honda Beat, which is about as small and as theoretically cramped as Keis come.

Further, it's all about packaging. I feel cramped in some fairly large cars and trucks (S-10 Blazer comes to mind, then again I'm not a small person), yet there's small stuff I fit fine in.

C-ZETA · Mar 29, 2009

mPWRD
@slims: i'm 6'6"

You'd still fit in a Honda Beat, roof open.

And now that I think about it, the Smart ForTwo is a possible kei car. Although personally I'd classify it as a mini car, all of it's models have kei car style hp. Or in the case of the Brabus Coupe, K-car style hp. :lol:

Freddie · Mar 29, 2009

eiriksmil
Britons have it a bit easier than us, we can't get these Japanese cars registered here.

On the contrary. Because of a loophole that our authorities don't have the opportunity to fix, it's not a problem at all. Most cars imported from the US get here the same way. There just isn't much demand for them.

mPWRD: I would say the appeal of these cars is that they're essentially very different to what we're usually offered in the dealerships. Since they are built around a strict set of rules, it forces the engineers and designers to innovate to a much higher degree, which leads to many interresting and unique features that not many cars have. The competition in Japan between Kei-cars has also been fierce, to my understanding,

Furhtermore, since they are extremely light, the fastest of these have respectable performance, and 0-100 km/h down to 8 seconds have been reported for stock models. There is not a person in the western world that would expect a car like that to move in such a manner, so some people like them for their shock-and-awe factor.

And then there's the weird and funky cars that attract alot of attention; usually positive. Some people like them for just that. I wish I could go more in-depth on this point, but sometimes the attraction to these is just that simple.

eiriksmil · Mar 29, 2009

Freddie
On the contrary. Because of a loophole that our authorities don't have the opportunity to fix, it's not a problem at all. Most cars imported from the US get here the same way. There just isn't much demand for them.

What loophole is this, the "historic/rare vehicle rule" (motorhistorisk grunnlag)? I'm pretty sure that's fixed, the past several years you haven't been able to get plates on any car that's not approved for Europe or the US. Or are you referring to §1-15, that you may get it in as long as it's been approved in an EEA country or the USA? Because this excludes the registration process of a car that's directly imported from Japan. Where's the loophole?

Freddie · Mar 29, 2009

eiriksmil
What loophole is this, the "historic/rare vehicle rule" (motorhistorisk grunnlag)? I'm pretty sure that's fixed, the past several years you haven't been able to get plates on any car that's not approved for Europe or the US. Or are you referring to §1-15, that you may get it in as long as it's been approved in an EEA country or the USA? Because this excludes the registration process of a car that's directly imported from Japan. Where's the loophole?

Yup, the latter one. The loophole is getting it registered in either Germany or, seeing how they find their way there, the UK. When that is done, §1-15 applies to those cars as well.

I think. I'm not sure, but I have the impression that a lot of people import foreign cars via Germany. And if it's OK there, it's by law OK here as well.

Sniffs · Mar 29, 2009

mPWRD: you came across as a ranty noob. I automatically went into "dad herding 5 kids" mode

sorry...I'm used to dealing with clueless freshmen on forums, having been online for a friggin decade

there are little or no kei-types in the US for the reasons you allready observed (at least someone agrees with me that they would be underpowered as stock). But I also belive Europeans when they scratch their heads in confusion as to why americans sit in their humongus land-yaghts and cruise. I've sat behind the wheel of an antique, giving a test start for someone trying to diagnose why the thiong wouldn't turn over. the wheel fit perfect, and the shifter and handbrake were close enough for no stretch...but the pedals were rigged for someone with VERY long legs. I could barely reach them with my toe tips due to the seat set permanently for max legroom

I don't think I'd have that problem with a Kei car...or even with something in the sub-compact range. i hate sitting in a car with my arms and legs in a stiff straight out position, like I'm holding weights at arms length in an endurance test.

most people I know sit with the seat all the way back to the furthest notch because they're not worried about reaching the controlls, they're only worried about reaching the steering wheel. that's what the passenger is for. unfortunately, you don't know how many times I've been tempted to smack people's hands away from my settings on the heater or radio...which everybody wants to set their way, and damn to the driver. Uh-uh, MY vehicle buddy, not yours

I prefer Kei's in GT's due to their quick manuverability. if they'd uprate the power on a permanent basis, I'd pounce.

I've been looking at the modern small cars and subcompacts...and they're not subcompacts anymore. they're practically YAGHTS to me. I must be getting old, cause when I think of tiny cars, I think of cramped little Geo Metros and what we got for Festivas.

mPWRD · Mar 29, 2009

Sniffs
mPWRD: you came across as a ranty noob. I automatically went into "dad herding 5 kids" mode sorry...I'm used to dealing with clueless freshmen on forums, having been online for a friggin decade

there are little or no kei-types in the US for the reasons you allready observed (at least someone agrees with me that they would be underpowered as stock). But I also belive Europeans when they scratch their heads in confusion as to why americans sit in their humongus land-yaghts and cruise. I've sat behind the wheel of an antique, giving a test start for someone trying to diagnose why the thiong wouldn't turn over. the wheel fit perfect, and the shifter and handbrake were close enough for no stretch...but the pedals were rigged for someone with VERY long legs. I could barely reach them with my toe tips due to the seat set permanently for max legroom

I'm sorry, grandpa

... i may be a noob when it comes to kei cars (i've only driven one) and I agree with you... they are terribly slow and ergonomically deficient, and unfortunately the one I drove was also un-aerodynamic and rattled at around 60mph. I look at it this way: there's a point in car sizes when you get too small, and a point where you get too big. For me, anything smaller than a Honda Civic is ridiculous. On the other end, It's a Benz S-Class. So kei cars will never appeal to me... pity isn't it.

Nicksfix · Mar 29, 2009

No,I do not like them.To small for my liking.If I get in a wreck going down the road in my own personal truck,I like the thought of me being able to walk out of it,and not having the paramedics using the "jaws of life" to peel me from it.As far as mileage goes,kudos to the Kei cars for that, and I accept the fact that my 4X4 Dodge Ram which gets 13mpg will get smoked in that department.However,when I punch it down I know it will get moving quite well and not have to wait for the rubber band to get twisted up.Not ribbing on anybody who does like them,I just personally prefer mid-size to larger vehicles.

Kei cars: Did you ever like them?

Do you like Kei Cars?

Yeah, they're cool!

They're OK...

Awful, awful, awful!

Bonbonbonbons!

That Guy Over There

Bonbonbonbons!

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Bonbonbonbons!

Bonbonbonbons!

OSU Buckeyes baby !!!

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