Mad FinnTuners Co.™ - Finished 301010 with GT-Rdammerung - BIG THANKS everyone!

Leonidae

Muhahahahahahahahaa My monster is well on it's way as well.. not that I got it's diff dialed in and figured out how to drive it, it's running with the GT-Rs I've tuned earlier.. it's just bit more of a beast under braking, but I'm willing to believe I can sort it out.. left foot braking and keeping the revs up are the key to driving this car. But make no mistake, this will make Grim R34per look like sedated little baby.. well, atleast in terms of controllability.

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I can't await to see it Well, one of my favourite cars from MFT is the Grim R34per and it's hard to find a car that's faster and better than this one.. Let's see what Leo can do.. hm hm..

Greycap

I've just returned from quite a furious trip to the famed Nürburgring. The latest addition to the selection is being put through its paces on the most challenging courses there are and this far the progress is looking good, the clock stopped at 6'08 and change after a lap that was far from perfect.

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Six minutes? In a road car?

Before seeing the madness that Leo will bring life to, i would like to give my impressions of the MFT tuned RE-Amemiya RX-7.

It's surprising to see a racing car being tuned, as i believe it is a garage policy not to touch race cars, as they are good enough stock.


But, well, i was invited to a test drive of different JGTC cars, all of the GT300 category, at the Fuji 2005 circuit.

I understood soon enough why MFT wouldn't touch those cars. They are indeed good enough when left stock. Of course, some of them could help a nice tune (like the horrible CWest Silvia), others are just plein fantastic (like the Cusco Impreza, or the splendid MRS).

But the Amemiya fell in the same category as the Garaiya. The dull car that gets the job done. Not the exciting car like the Cusco or the MR-S.
It avoided the worst, being teamed up with the Silvia.

Of course, with a fantastic base like the RX7, it's a bit disappointing to see that it doesn't destroy the competition.

Times were honorable. Not that fast (i'm not a pro after all), but not that slow either. But, gosh, the car needs traction. And it could be better at taking turns at mid speed. Of course, it goes fast in a straight line, maybe the fastest one of all. But, why wait so long to engage the sixth gear?
Tires were not such a problem, as all cars had the same.


Then, MFT arrives.
And a new car is born.

I mean, the car needed traction, better turn-in, and better gear ratios?
All done. And it results in a massive improvement.

Let's just say that, the first timed lap with the new setup gave 2.724 second improvement over the best time done in the stock Amemiya. And i'm not even joking.
The second lap was half a second faster.
The third was .6 better.
In 4 laps, i did a laptime that was near 4seconds (do the math) faster than my faster time with the stock settings.

Yeah, the tune makes the car THAT much better.
It might be what the car should have been.

But, well, in my eyes, even if the car is now better, it still fails to get in the same category as the Cusco or the MR-S. It's at least now pleasant to drive, and gives a nice reward when all is done correctly. But, well, now it's not boring anymore Just not as entertaining as the top 2. It gets third place, not that bad, right? (now, that makes me wonder what a Cusco or a superautobacs mr-S tune would result in)


If i had to point things I don't like that much about the car now, i might say that it stops too quickly (you can say it now, you just wanted the pilot to bash its head in the driving wheel, right?), and it turns very very sharply... Very surprising when you're not expecting it.

Good to hear that it was an improvement over the stock one. I'm sorry about you getting your head bashed against the steering wheel, but the stock braking force was just disappointing to me. Sharper brakes enable later braking and that means faster laps. of course, you can modulate the braking force just like acceleration, it just takes time. I believe you know the drill.

MinoltaMan89 - Yes, a road car. It's not as impossible as it sounds but it takes a good combination of power and handling to achieve. I've ran around 6'15 with another of our cars suitably modified (just a slightly altered setup) and the power was well below 600 bhp so it gives an idea of what the true monsters can do. We have two or three road cars at the moment that could pull off the 5'xx feat in my hands on a good run.

Greycap

I've just returned from quite a furious trip to the famed Nürburgring. The latest addition to the selection is being put through its paces on the most challenging courses there are and this far the progress is looking good, the clock stopped at 6'08 and change after a lap that was far from perfect.

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Well, if it WAS perfect, what do you reckon the time would be? I'm guessing that in something that is a hard to handle as the new V10's though, it would probably be incredibly hard to get a perfect lap around even somewhere like Suzuka, never mind the Nurburgring. Of course you could still change the settings and differentiate the brake balance or something.

C-ZETA

Well, if it WAS perfect, what do you reckon the time would be? I'm guessing that in something that is a hard to handle as the new V10's though, it would probably be incredibly hard to get a perfect lap around even somewhere like Suzuka, never mind the Nurburgring. Of course you could still change the settings and differentiate the brake balance or something.

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I'll try this one out right now.. Just to see, if I'm able to make a clean lap with the Audi and the Viper.. 💡

I'll prepare a carbonfiber coffin for you..

C-ZETA - Below 6'00 for sure. Eight seconds on Nürburgring is nothing with the mistakes I made. But the car is one of the trickiest out there which means that the mistakes are pretty much unavoidable...

S-Line Audi Fan - I can only wish you luck in that. I've tried the Audi myself, while it's possible to make a clean lap it's nearly impossible to make a clean fast lap. The tail won't stay in check on the high speed sections and you'll have to be quite a wizard to catch it when it goes.

Leonidae

I'll prepare a carbonfiber coffin for you..

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A carbonfiber coffin.. mhh.. Sounds interesting.. How much does one of those cost? And who's going to pay it? But there's no need, I'm back With some impressions

Greycap

S-Line Audi Fan - I can only wish you luck in that. I've tried the Audi myself, while it's possible to make a clean lap it's nearly impossible to make a clean fast lap. The tail won't stay in check on the high speed sections and you'll have to be quite a wizard to catch it when it goes.

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Well, Greycap, first of all, your Viper is really a bi:censored:.. I couldn't give full throttle through the corners, but that's not the problem.. Just give it a little too much throttle and it'll spin, well, you can try countersteering, but.. It's not going to work that well.. I was scared to go at full throttle over bumpy parts of the track, so I lifted the throttle or sometimes I had to brake.. I couldn't make a totally clean lap, driving over grass here and driving over grass there.. But I think it's normal for this car when being driven at Nürburgring.. OK, you say that the tail of Leo's car won't stay in check on the high speed sections, right? Well, I can partly agree with that.. Yes, the tail sometimes is anxious, but it can be caught.. The difference between the Viper and the Audi is that you can give full throttle through corners with the Audi.. It won't spin that fast.. And if the rear doesn't stay in check, you can easily countersteer and continue driving without touching any grass or sand or whatsoever.. On the other side, the car just begins to spin at about 320 km/h when going up bumpy hills (Fuchsröhre, just before preparing to brake for Adenauer Forst) .. And then you think: I'll try braking.. But: You won't succeed.. You can just hope the car'll slow down by itself (bumping into walls ).. But all in all, I prefer the Audi over the Viper.. Yes, the Audi sometimes isn't stable enough, but the Viper is almost always unstable .. I think the 4WD equipped in the Audi has something to do with this.. 👍

Sounds like the Audi that frustrated me oh-so-much with the tailhappiness under braking.. but what controller were you using?

Leonidae

Sounds like the Audi that frustrated me oh-so-much with the tailhappiness under braking.. but what controller were you using?

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I'm using the usual DS2 Controller, why do you ask?

S-Line Audi Fan

On the other side, the car just begins to spin at about 320 km/h when going up bumpy hills (Fuchsröhre, just before preparing to brake for Adenauer Forst)

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Sounds exactly like what I experienced with the Audi, first you're doing 250 km/h down the straight, an eyeblink later the car rips the wheel out of your hands and you're facing the direction you came from - still doing that 250 km/h and heading off the track - with no understanding about what the hell just happened. It happened to me just before Flugplatz, halfway down the straight to Schwedenkreutz, at Fuchsröhre... and then I decided that I'll rather stop trying than break something expensive in frustration.

The Viper is unstable when exiting tight corners, yes. A thousand horses to the rear wheels has a tendency to cause such behaviour. Then again I found it to be possible to floor it in higher rev range of the second gear, by that time the torque is down enough not to break the traction. In the third gear it can be driven normally, considering the power of course. I'll give it a run tomorrow myself and see how it does.

S-Line Audi Fan

I'm using the usual DS2 Controller, why do you ask?

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Well that explains why they're easier to drive for you. Both of us have G25.. Which means that we can't go from lock to opposite lock in 0.25 seconds like you can with DS2. it also gives us better throttle/brake modulation.. well, in most of the cases at least.

Sorry about the review, guys Things are going very slow around here for me to even copy the settings of the Viper, and I have a lot of homework to do for tomorrow But since I owe you this review since a few days now, I thought about giving you three reviews. I will test Plymouth 'Cuda 440 Six Pack '71, for the mere pride of being an American, though not in the same aspect, the Pagani Zonda C12R 7.3 '02, for the huge but ocasionally low pride of being an Argentine, and the said Dodge Viper ACR GT '00. I hope the three cars handle great! I have other reasons to test those three cars especifically too. Perhaps, sometime, I will tell you

Leonidae

Well that explains why they're easier to drive for you. Both of us have G25.. Which means that we can't go from lock to opposite lock in 0.25 seconds like you can with DS2. it also gives us better throttle/brake modulation.. well, in most of the cases at least.

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I know, I know.. But the Audi still spins without a reason at Fuchsröhre, as Greycap has experienced, too..

naming the problem spot doesn't help because I have not bothered to learn the names of every corner at Nurb. I'd assume that the weight distribution combined with high speed is enough to overcome the downforce at the rear. or then the limits of GT4's physics just don't know how to handle this kind of performance. *shrugs*


Codename L The Pagani might be bit of a beast, but relatively easy to control compared to Spirra, for example. just stay awake and it won't bite.. hard..

Well, then. If I've got time, I will also test the Spirra, just to see what are you talking about About the bite part... I doubt a car can be harder to control than a muscle car with fully weared out rear tires, normal front tires, and +600hp And believe me, I'm getting used to that.

Leonidae

naming the problem spot doesn't help because I have not bothered to learn the names of every corner at Nurb. I'd assume that the weight distribution combined with high speed is enough to overcome the downforce at the rear. or then the limits of GT4's physics just don't know how to handle this kind of performance. *shrugs*

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I haven't bothered to learn the names of every corner at Nürburgring, too.. But a click is enough and you'll know all names ..
You're maybe right about the physics of GT4.. But well.. I'll give this car another try tomorrow and I'll see how I can help it not to spin at that enormous speed..

Leonidae

Codename L The Pagani might be bit of a beast, but relatively easy to control compared to Spirra, for example. just stay awake and it won't bite.. hard..

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I've tested this car, too And it's quite easy to control, as you've mentioned.. About the Spirra.. Well, they're about the same, expect from the Spirra is going to do a 360 degree spin if you don't get her right, while the Zonda will forgive you and you just have to countersteer, which isn't easy either.. 👍

Funny.. I still can't visualize the problem spot.. could be that it bottoms out and bounces back to air? after all, the car is fully lowered.. and if it wouldn't be, you'd be throwing your controller away in a fit of tantrum. Believe me, it is a lot tamer than what it used to be.

Okay. Every setup, with corresponding difficulty and times at Grand Valley have been written down in a special sheet (a crumpled piece of paper ). I just need to buy the cars now Seems like a trip to the Special Conditions Hall is waiting for me and my NSX380

Leonidae

Funny.. I still can't visualize the problem spot.. could be that it bottoms out and bounces back to air? after all, the car is fully lowered.. and if it wouldn't be, you'd be throwing your controller away in a fit of tantrum. Believe me, it is a lot tamer than what it used to be.

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Maybe it's the ride height.. But maybe it's something else. It would be great if we could manage the problem.. But how?

I kept banging my head on the table with this car for a good while.. have fun if you're gonna tackle it, and make sure you know all the necessary expletives and have plenty of painkillers.

Leonidae

I kept banging my head on the table with this car for a good while.. have fun if you're gonna tackle it, and make sure you know all the necessary expletives and have plenty of painkillers.

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OK, I'll give you a review tomorrow after I'm back from school .. Oh and: I've managed a 6'xx lap time at Nürburgring.. With the mistake the car makes at high speed at uphills..

I think... this review of mine of the Viper will be nowhere near the Esprit one... But I must say I've got my reasons.


Acceleration & Power: First of all... 969 bhp, 1235 Nm, 1253 kg are the specs for this car. I've come down to this: All those bhp are doing much more damage to the car than they are actually helping it. Sure, I could shave off nine seconds from the original time done with full weight reductions, but as I have always thought, and this is the first time I will ever write it down, I don't like road cars running against race cars. Why? Because they look completely out of place. But this could be obviously the exception, right? But no. All those bhp make the car such a god damned 🤬 that not even the pimpest dude out there would even think of employing her. Personally, I would have not even thinking to get near 700bhp with a car of its weight. Even 600bhp would have seemed to much for me. But it's your car, after all. The acceleration is perfect, combined with the gears. But in true honesty, all the wheelspin at low gears is not worth the massive increase in power. Not only that, but wheelspin out of corners is huge. Why not increase the LSD effect under acceleration? 6/10 for this. Power is nothing without control, as many members around the forum sport in their signatures. But sometimes I really question if they actually THINK that... or just want to copy Keiichi Tsuchiya.

Braking: Too much horsepower --> Too high speed --> Increased braking distances. Increased braking distances + ( - Bad brakes from factory - Better brakes from tuner garage) = Increased braking distances - Good brakes from tuner garage = Still high braking distances. Stupid, I know. But power affects every aspect of a car. And with so much horsepower, the braking is almost unexistent for overall purposes, making you want to go even faster rather than slowing down. This, my friends, is a 7/10. After all, the car can slow down. Just not the way a race car, with even more power than it, can slow down. And that is pretty bloody fast.

Cornering: Factory stock, the car is very good when it means to cornering. I didn't found too much of an improvement here, as I will later explain. 8/10

Gearing: Excellent. I believe this is a department you are really experienced in. Last time, you told me that you wanted to sacrifice those tenths from top speed to increase acceleration out of corners. I would have decided instead to increase top speed in order to decrease acceleration, because the way things are, wheelspin is omni-present. 10/10.

Conflicts:

Oversteer: To be honest, I think the only oversteer present in this car is while under the pedal at low gears. Other than that, I really didn't find any problem. Power 🤬 it all, so there is oversteer. -1/10

Understeer: A wing could have surely been useful. I don't know, but I'm just asuming it should be. -1/10



Something I have to say right now. When I got the car, first thing I did was full weight reductions, and I bought the stage 3 of NA tuning. I ran around the GVS for a couple of laps, and I'm not going to lie, I did around four or five. Then I went to install all the parts. To my surprise, the car was actually worse than the stock form with just the NA Stage 3. I think I know why: low top speed increases wheelspin, low LSD settings make the car very unstable under braking, which was noticeable in the first corner, and out of corners the car just wants to drift. Thing is, I do not drift with R-Grade tires. So, once you begin to countersteer, snapback kills you. Pretty bad. When I mean worse, I do not mean the car just handled worse than the original. I mean it was even slower. Yes, I may not be a good driver. I never asume I'm a good one. But I have to say that I expected something else from a car like this. I knew since the beginning that 960bhp were too much. And I was right. The tuner principle, taking from a guide I found in the Internet, was the following: "Your job as tuner is to get the car to be as fast as possible while still being as controllable as possible". That's what I always aim for. Now, I know that tuning cars for a broad range of people is not an easy thing. That's why I don't start a tuning garage. My cars may work well for me, and that's the way I like it. I don't care if other peopel have trouble handling a car I have tuned. I also have a tendency to drive understeering cars. On the muscle car side, though, I like to oversteer them. All of this resumes to the next thing: in my case, tuning didn't help at all for this car. At all. It just made it more crazy and wild. Not precisely something I would like to have when I'm driving a 960bhp car. I did wrote down scores. But if the car is not an improvement from the original, possible all that I did was just copy the scores I know the original car would've got. Draw your own conclusions. I hope the rest of the cars are more well-behaved. I sold my "black beauties" just to buy them! Do not take this as a sign of offense and disrespect. After all, how many tuners around here can say that I drive one of their cars everyday? Just you.

Dodge Viper ACR GT '00 Review


Diff and Gearing:
I like the diff and transmission setting for the ARC GT.

Brakes:
I find the Viper's brakes on the long side. I was also getting some locking with them making the car understeer at turn-in. Care is needed when trail braking because of this.

Suspension and Overall:
I was getting understeer in medium to high speed turns. Both at steady state throttle and as I was added throttle. Off throttle turn-in is good with the Dodge and you can use the car's throttle oversteer on slow to medium speeds to turn the car if needed. I find to get the best lap times from this Viper you need to driving just below the full attack mode. So it's short comings do not bite you. The ARC GT was turing in 1'37.3xx at GVS in this mode. Not to bad for a car big rear tires and not added downforce. Thanks for the fun and now it's off to give the other new V10 car a spin.

Codename L - The review is quite interesting seeing what you saw as the main problem of the car. I'll return to it later. The brakes, yep, they suck. With more braking power they suck even more, this car is doomed at that area. Then again the speeds it attains are much higher than one might think so short distances are pretty much out of the question. The cornering, it indeed was good as stock. That's why I didn't change it all that much, mainly took out the understeer I could. The gearing, it's not rocket science to be honest. The differential, tuned for minimizing the understeer under throttle. It was quite severe. The wing was left out because it's just about the most horrible looking thing the car can suffer from, had this been a normal GTS there would have been one.

But the main issues. The overkill power figures, the infamous wheelspin and the oversteer it causes. The thing is that it all can be controlled with the right foot. You can use about 50% throttle in the first gear, around 75% until 5000 rpm in the second and then floor it all the way to the redline of the sixth. Nobody forces you to use the full power in all situations and even common sense should say that less is more at low speeds when there are nearly a thousand horses on tap. Thanks to the smooth power delivery the car can be driven like a 500 bhp model if wanted but the extra grunt is there to push it down the straights. It takes skill to control the power but it's definitely possible and after all, it's an Expert rated car so it takes an Expert driver too.

stidriver - Another very interesting review seeing that the findings differ from the previous ones on several areas, especially the braking behaviour. Possible controller differences perhaps? But it also proves that the car is capable of astonishing performance when driven by an experienced driver.

Ookay MFT.. I'm back with some results about the Audi.. The car really is a bi:censored:.. I tried everything, but it just won't stay stable before Flugplatz .. I set the Driving Aids back and set the ride height to 120 mm (highest!!!) and tried not to drive so fast (that's hard ), but that didn't work.. What else to try? I really want the car to be stable there, so that it's a perfect setup..

well.. it is a concept car, not the complete product.. thus, there probably was lot of work done to the actual car so it wouldn't come out as this one did. have you seen the spyshots of the actual RS5 yet?

Leonidae

well.. it is a concept car, not the complete product.. thus, there probably was lot of work done to the actual car so it wouldn't come out as this one did. have you seen the spyshots of the actual RS5 yet?

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That could be the point.. Yes, I have.. Why? 💡: