Mad FinnTuners Co. - Finished 081213 - The Final Countdown, 4, 3, 2, 1, OUT!

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Just to say, keeping on the American cars subject, yours Ford GT SHO tune works pretty well on a wingless GT for drag racing. Yesterday I beat some F1's (McLaren) on some SSR7 runs with it!
 
Starting with the TRD Celica and how it compares to the FTO counterpart. As stated by the authors, the FTO certainly gives a more assured, predictable feeling. Definitely endurance race material in this respect.

On the other hand, the Celica mostly managed lap times over half a second better than the FTO, almost irrespective of the track. In some ways the Celica is a bit more typical of the FF breed, with more pronounced understeer, when it occurs but to be honest, if you take the drivetrain configuration into account this does not really need to be often.

Just like the FTO, the tiny naturally aspirated engine does not wonders produce when talking of torque. One odd decision, when talking of the Celica, is the incredibly long second gear, which means it only gets into its stride (in second) at around 110 kmh. Especially in the slower sections of GVS this gives the opinion that more could be had out of the car, if it was a bit shorter geared down there (I still use an autobox). The third and onwards are spot on, though.

In terms of handling it hovers somewhere between completely predictable and slightly surprising. The back will break out much more often than expected of a FF and stability under braking is certainly lower than in say the FTO. Where the FTO will brake for the first corner of GVS without touching the steering, the Celica will need several corrections to be kept in line.

In slower corners you will also get both under and oversteer at times, depending on the line and entry speed but none of the two are hard to handle.

Still, it will take more effort than the FTO, so a 2 hour endurance race will task you much more in the TRD.

In spite of all this it is undeniably faster. I could not do direct comparisons - for some reason the TRD is not classed as a 'normal car', meaning the 500PP seasonals are off limits. In the A spec races it managed to keep much more formidable machinery behind, including a stock '07 GT-R and a Ford GT. Sure - they would have been somewhat faster but at no point did they manage to get close enough to overtake. This on its own is a strong endorsement for this jumped up small FF 👍

As a final mention, the engine sound. In my opinion one of the most evocative inline 4 engine noises in the game. Not sure what aspect produces it but it is savage, characterful, all things one would not expect of a small Toyota 4 cyl. :)

All in all, just like the descriptions say - if you need a one lap time, the Toyota will beat the FTO almost every time. If you want to be comfortable with the car over longer stints, the FTO will make it much easier for you 👍
 
On top of trying the little FFs I also had time (only just) for the C5 Z06 HSG Corvette. As I am quite in favour of filling up my credit account from the 500PP seasonals, it looked like an ideal car. I also have a soft spot for the sports car put together by 'Kentucky backwoodsmen' (no offense intended - just that its lacking heritage and Fisher price interior do not deterr it from humbling much more prestigious machinery). :)

In any case, my black on black (Darth Vader junior) C5 was quickly set up and put to the test at TM, R246 and Cape Ring Periphery. Just like Corvettes generally, it is easy to control, has a nice lazy V8, and a playful nature. With the DS3 this means more concentration than with most of your cars to drive it quickly and get the best lap times out of it, but at the same time it will hardly see you bouncing between the walls pinball style due to handling issues.

What I mean is that it requires much more precision with throttle application and steering to drive it neutrally than most of your other 500PP machinery.

The natural inclination of the car at part throttle or when feathered is gentle understeer. This can be corrected at your leasure through opening the throttle wider, which will always bring the rear into play. As this can be controlled much more precisely with a full pedal and wheel setup, I am sure some time is lost through the countermoves necessary with the DS3 (at least with my skills). At the same time, the fun is in no way diminished and the car is still fast enough to annihilate the competition in the 500PP seasonals, even if the times are mostly not as good as with the ITR or CTR on TM and Cape Ring (and come nowhere close to those of the 500PP specials the two of you provided me with). At the R246 it can run with the FFs well enough but will still not quite best a 500PP NSX or R390. As it is a higher speed track, it settles into it much better and will not need such a careful approach regarding throttle or steering, and the mostrously fat rear tyres provide it with enough grip for surprisingly good cornering speeds. The engine is also fairly lightly restricted, so it accelerates way past the point, where the pumped up 4 cyls or massively restricted V8s lose interest - the main straight getting you to 270, where the rest see something more like 250.

Overall a very enjoyable car and definitely fast enough. Just make sure your thumbs are well trained for miniscule movements, or alternatively use a wheel and pedals. For such a lightly modified car a real achievement, though 👍
 
XDesperado67
Yep all those little and not so little changes do add up.
Click to expand...
They surely do. :ouch:

My lap time on the banner is 1'54,901 and that's as fast as I could make the car go with the v1.09 physics and the posted settings. Now, in v2.05, the same settings produced a lap time of 1'54,850 which is nicely in line with the old one and shows that the actual lap times haven't changed that much but it doesn't say a word about the handling. The car certainly didn't handle like this when it was built and after a few minor changes (nothing big needed, just fine tuning here and there) to take full advantage of the new physics model... kaboom, 1'54,031. Ouch.

kingmoshoeshoe2 isn't forgotten but I'll reply to the Celica review later.
 
kingmoshoeshoe2
On top of trying the little FFs I also had time (only just) for the C5 Z06 HSG Corvette. As I am quite in favour of filling up my credit account from the 500PP seasonals, it looked like an ideal car. I also have a soft spot for the sports car put together by 'Kentucky backwoodsmen' (no offense intended - just that its lacking heritage and Fisher price interior do not deterr it from humbling much more prestigious machinery). :)

In any case, my black on black (Darth Vader junior) C5 was quickly set up and put to the test at TM, R246 and Cape Ring Periphery. Just like Corvettes generally, it is easy to control, has a nice lazy V8, and a playful nature. With the DS3 this means more concentration than with most of your cars to drive it quickly and get the best lap times out of it, but at the same time it will hardly see you bouncing between the walls pinball style due to handling issues.

What I mean is that it requires much more precision with throttle application and steering to drive it neutrally than most of your other 500PP machinery.

The natural inclination of the car at part throttle or when feathered is gentle understeer. This can be corrected at your leasure through opening the throttle wider, which will always bring the rear into play. As this can be controlled much more precisely with a full pedal and wheel setup, I am sure some time is lost through the countermoves necessary with the DS3 (at least with my skills). At the same time, the fun is in no way diminished and the car is still fast enough to annihilate the competition in the 500PP seasonals, even if the times are mostly not as good as with the ITR or CTR on TM and Cape Ring (and come nowhere close to those of the 500PP specials the two of you provided me with). At the R246 it can run with the FFs well enough but will still not quite best a 500PP NSX or R390. As it is a higher speed track, it settles into it much better and will not need such a careful approach regarding throttle or steering, and the mostrously fat rear tyres provide it with enough grip for surprisingly good cornering speeds. The engine is also fairly lightly restricted, so it accelerates way past the point, where the pumped up 4 cyls or massively restricted V8s lose interest - the main straight getting you to 270, where the rest see something more like 250.

Overall a very enjoyable car and definitely fast enough. Just make sure your thumbs are well trained for miniscule movements, or alternatively use a wheel and pedals. For such a lightly modified car a real achievement, though 👍
Click to expand...


Good to see that the slightly tamed Corvette got your attention and approval. It is indeed one of my better yankees, and in addition it even got the Seal of Approval from the Stigs Finnish cousin. :lol:
 
It was the turn of the Evo 9 RM "Shiden" to be tested today, and I was expecting a fair bit from this giant-killer, so much so that I entered it in the 650PP seasonal... despite it only having around 580PP.

The slower acceleration of the car compared to the other race cars was felt significantly, catching up to the other GT500 cars took longer than usual. The car I felt was giving all it had though, transmission making sure the car never bogged down, so full marks there I guess.

In the twisties it handled like its other giant killer cousin, the GT-R, viciously gripping to the track until finally understeering wide to let you know that you've made a mistake. I felt that perhaps corner entry could be sharper, it felt just a tad vague, and more rotation mid-corner would be welcome too.

I'm curious as to why the LSD was put on and not the Lancer standard AYC, isn't the AYC a better system? I did also compare this setup alongside RKM's tune, and although suffering from the same problems, theirs was half a second quicker around Madrid, and they kept AYC on... Enlighten me about this :lol:

MFT: 1.21.1xx
RKM: 1.20.5xx

A solid setup nonetheless though, and a 1st place in the seasonal to boot :)


PS Greycap, your ZZII tune is great, clocked a seriously fast 1.17.0xx with it on Madrid, thanks a lot :)
 
There are a couple of things worth noting in that comparison.

The first one being that mine was built for sports tyres and the RKM version was built for racing tyres, the behaviour of those two is very different when it comes to the relation of longitudinal and lateral grip and it shows in the setup - a car optimized for racing slicks can be set to be a lot more aggressive. Now, I don't know which tyres you used but judging by the lap times they definitely weren't Sports Softs. Which effectively means that you compared a car made for sports tyres but running on racing tyres against one made for racing tyres and running on racing tyres, and that's a battle that can't be won unless the opposition isn't up to par. Unfortunately for me the RKM guys are.

Then the AYC. It's a gadget that works well at low speeds when there's a lot of grip (or not enough power) available, at high speeds it makes the car pretty erratic to drive and even at low speeds it tends to spin the inside wheel unless there's that mentioned grip to be used. My car was made for sports tyres which means that the mechanical LSD puts the power down noticably better.

The teaching of the story, drive the cars as they are to find out how they were made to handle. I can assure you that a setup made for Sports Softs performs about as well on Racing Softs as vice versa. As a rule of thumb, the grippier the tyres, the more rear end grip there will be in relation to the front. So was the case with this Lancer as I also tried it with Racing Softs which did little to cure the understeery basic nature of the car but took out all the throttle oversteer - which was present with the Sports Softs. It actually handled worse with the slicks, sure it was grippier but not nearly as balanced as it was made to be. Most of the small handling details were gone.
 
Looks like you guys have made a pretty good stable of tunes already. I have been kinda of late to gt5 having just acquired it a few days ago. I do fully intend on testing that 69 z28 tune you have as I am currently accumulating the parts to build it. a scoche under 500hp and a height adj suspension. Truthfully i find the older american "pony" cars are actually more nimble than their fresh young bretheren. Hope to be posting a few tunes myself in the near future.
 
Keep in minds that it's an old tune, made way before any physics updates, so it might not be as good or bad as it was back then.
 
OK, finally the Lotus Elise Sport 220 '04. I have configured it the same day as the Corvette but did not get to actually driving it for some days and then also only in fits and starts.

The car is definitely all Greycap promises - easy to drive, incredibly fast against the clock, deceptive but somehow always faster than expected.

The tail will almost never bite and if there is a slight slip angle it is very easy to catch. The turn in is strong and the corner speeds are excellent - more or less at the level one gets with cars with front downforce. The only issue when cornering is tht the tyres remain super skinny, meaning that if you throw the car into the corner, a 4 wheel drift is the likely result - manageable but scrubbing off speed at the same time.

If you turn in gradually but cleanly, the speeds carried through are great - something they need to be given the tiny engine behind. Sure, the paperweight it needs to push around does not make the lack of torque an issue but the top speeds at the end of straights are still quite a bit lower than all your other 500PP or near enough cars.

In spite of this you will be able to get amongst the best 500PP lap times, even on faster circuits such as R246. 👍

Last but not least, a car that is very easy to drive often tends towards the boring; this is decidedly not the case here. In spite of the ease with which you get competitive times out, there is more to be had with each go, and the car is simple enough to catch to let you experiment with lines, corner entry speeds etc. to get consequtively closer to the optimum lap time. For me it also opened my eyes towards approaching certain corners in other cars more effectively, so it is a great teaching tool on top 👍

(Just a question - is the car intended with only the extensions at the front, or the normal front spoilers as well? (difficult to tell from the picture))
 
kingmoshoeshoe2 - Now, at last, the replies. The Celica goes in first as it was released and reviewed first - logical, isn't it? Anyway, it seems that the impressions were about the same as mine in that it takes more than the FTO but also gives more. Having said that we did it again, Leonidae's car being the "predictable no matter what" choice while mine goes wherever it wants but somehow manages to be fast while doing it despite actually having inferior stats. Loose really is fast, I guess. On the other hand the Elise turns the tables around completely, being rippingly fast but feeling like a Sunday drive. Not much can be said about it other than that you should see the 550PP version... and no, no front aero parts, only the extensions. The front aero added unnecessary stuff on the sides too which is why I left it out.

JrDarknes - Quite a different review, new ideas to the mix! 👍 Seeing that your only gripe with the car was the (lack of) overall performance, do yourself a favour and try the Nismo GT-R V-SpecII R-Tune which did what the Nür promised would happen one day - showed the world how an R32 really can perform.
 
Given the latest Time Trial demanded German machinery with up to 560PP, I went out and tried the Audi RS8 '07. First during the seasonal (with SH tyres), which was a cinch to gold and subsequently at the Nordschleiffe, GVS and TM. To top it all off I wanted to compare it to the NSX GT2, given how they share almost the same PP and that both come on SS tyres (looked like a fair comparison).

Before I start with the review, just a disclaimer, the driving was done with a DS3 and an auto gearbox (both factors that probably influence the impressions somewhat).

When you get going the first impressions are good - a nice engine sound, a strong and seamless acceleration, good gear ratios... And then comes the first corner, and with it an understeer for Ingolstadt. Somehow it feels as if the V8 is in front of the front wheels and not behind the driver ;) That's a bit harsh now, I know but it has a much higher resemblance to something like an RS6 than I would have imagined. I never drove the R8 in real life, so cannot say if this is natural for the breed (and this was my first and only foray with it in GT5, too) but it did not bode well.

Whenever there is a red wheel it is almost always at the front :) But dismissing the car for the FF characteristics it displays would be a bit premature. While you have the feeling that you are constantly scrubbing off speed at the front, the times seem to say otherwise. While the Nordschleiffe and my driving never produce consistent and comparable times, TM and GVS do by now - and the times there were certainly very competitive. 👍 To top it off, the car is almost impossible to seriously unhinge, so you can drive it in endurance events without fear that a momentary lapse leads to a carbon fibre coffin ;) The rear never seems to come into play when under throttle, and the only time it really does is when braking into corners, where the car rotates towards the apex. This is a trait some people like more than others, what bothered me a bit is that the nose went wide when you were done braking and wanted to apply throttle again.

I am wondering whether the car would be more balanced with a centre diff and a higher fraction of power going to the back?

All in all, the times were great and so was the confidence the car inspired (even if it felt really slow the whole time), so time to pit it against the Honda NSX GT2 '91 on the same tracks. I had fond memories of the Honda from earlier use and given that there were only 5 or so PPs between them, I felt it was a fair fight. Turns out it was not. With my driving the skinny tyres of the Honda, combined with the five speed gearbox and the oversteer on demand stance, I could not get near the Audi times, try as hard as I might. In comparison to the Honda the Audi suddenly shows how feeling slow does not need to mean that the car is really slow :)

Final verdict - quite a bit like a GT-R, fast feeling in a straight line, with understeer, and feeling like on a Sunday cruise but posting truly impressive times and making even novice drivers look better than they have any right to 👍
 
kingmoshoeshoe2 read your review of the RS8. Good review but I wonder how much driving you do in the game with 4wd cars. From reading the review I'd guess not much. While it is possible to set a 4wd up to drive more like a rear wheel drive car, that sort of defeats the purpose of having 4wd in the first place. Adjusting your driving style slightly to take advantage of the 4wd will pay big dividends in your lap times. Try braking just a hair earlier then use the 4wd to pull you through the corner and accelerate you into the straight. The power split with more power to the front aids in giving the car better acceleration and helps limit wheelspin as your not dumping all your power into just two wheels.
 
Will definitely have a look :) Generally the lap times were not bad - on GVS my time was around 2 seconds off that posted by Leonidae, which is a tad better than the usual 3 second difference (I think the lowest one was for the R32, where it was around 1.4 secs or so).

But will certainly drive the car more and experiment with slightly earlier braking (and let you know if it got me somewhere). Thanks! 👍
 
kingmoshoeshoe2
Generally the lap times were not bad - on GVS my time was around 2 seconds off that posted by Leonidae [...]
Click to expand...
Those are all my times - no matter who makes the car, I take care of putting it through its paces. ;)

On the subject though, I actually think it might really be the car. The RS8 was made to be a stable performer for everyone and during the later stages of testing I proposed some changes that would have made it faster but at the same time eliminated a large portion of the stability, especially at high speeds. Thus the RR8 was born with my tuning philosophy, to be the "no holds barred" version of the same car that sacrifices stability for manoeuvrability and corner exit speed. It's significantly more tail happy but also slightly faster than its V8 brother.
 
I do apologize - I thought each one of you did their own times for their own cars :)

Am away during the weekend but will try the RR8 as soon as I get a bit of breathing space 👍
 
Ford Mustang Mach 2 '71

460+ bhp, 705+ Nm, 1309 kg, PP 533
Painted in White from Ford


Clickable for full size​

Parts to fit:
Oil Change
New Wheels, SSR Professor VF1, finished in Crystal White from Nissan
Front Splitter & Skirts Type B
Rear Skirts Type A
Rear Wing Type A
Chassis Weight Reduction Stage 3
Window Weight Reduction
Carbon Bonnet (Body Colour)
Engine Tuning Stage 2
Sports ECU
Sports Exhaust
Fully Customizable Transmission
Twin Plate Clutch
Semi Racing Flywheel
Fully Customizable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension Kit
Sports Soft Tyres

Overall cost: around 200.000 Cr as usual

Aerodynamics
Downforce: 0 / 5

Transmission

Note: First, reset the gearbox to the default settings, then set the Max speed, and only then set the gear ratios.

Gear Ratios
1st: 2.620
2nd: 1.830
3rd: 1.455
4th: 1.200
5th: 1.000
Final Gear: 2.750

Max speed: 210 km/h

Fully Customizable LSD
Initial Torque: 5
Acceleration Sensitivity: 20
Braking Sensitivity: 5

Suspension
Ride Height Adjustment (mm): 0 / 0
Spring Rate (kgf/mm): 7.0 / 7.0
Dampers (Extension): 8 / 6
Dampers (Compression): 4 / 3
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 / 3
Camber Angle (-): 1.5 / 1.5
Toe Angle: 0.00 / 0.00

Brake Balance Controller
Brake Balance: 5 / 5

Driving Options
ASM: Off
TCS: 0
ABS: 1

One of the fastest pony cars of its time, the Ford Mustang Mach 1 didn't have overwhelming power figures or outrageous looks but it was a package that simply worked. Back then that is, the one we found in less than stellar condition was a different story but things were about to change.

The weirdest thing was the engine. It says 351 Ram Air on the hood but dynoing revealed that it produced too much power to be a "normal" four barrel 351 Cleveland or a 351 Cobra Jet but too little to be a Boss 351. :odd: Chances are that it was a Cobra Jet but the official power figures are underrated in the usual '70s way. Anyway, a rebuilt Boss 351 was dropped in and tickled a bit to perform at the level of big blocks while retaining the weight advantages of a small block engine. The bodyshell was equipped with a full selection of factory aero parts and stripped out in a good old Trans Am fashion, the suspension setup was inspired by the same series yet kept soft enough to prevent the car from becoming a rock sled. Looking at the values makes even me wonder how on earth such a simple creation can work so well but I guess a simple car needs a similarly simple setup. One thing is certain though, it works again after all these years and it does it better than ever under a fully deserved designation Mach 2.
 
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Chevrolet Camaro Z/496'69

496 bhp, 590 Nm, 1280 kg, PP 534
Painted in Tuxedo Black from Chevrolet


Clickable for full size​

Parts to fit:
Oil Change
New Wheels, PDI 525N, finished in original color from PDI
Front Splitter & Skirts Type A
Chassis Weight Reduction Stage 3
Window Weight Reduction
Carbon Bonnet (Body color)
Engine Tuning Stage 3
Sports ECU
Sports Intake Manifold
Racing Air Filter
Titanium Racing Exhaust
Sports Exhaust Manifold
Catalytic Converter: Sports
Fully Customizable Transmission
Twin Plate Clutch
Semi Racing Flywheel
Carbon Propeller Shaft
Fully Customizable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension Kit
Sports Soft Tyres

Overall cost:~200k

Weight Adjustment Ballast
Ballast Amount (kg): 107
Ballast Position: 20

Transmission

Note: First, reset the gearbox to the default settings, then set the Max speed, and only then set the gear ratios.

Gear Ratios
1st: 3.050
2nd: 2.100
3rd: 1.550
4th: 1.210
5th: 1.000
Final Gear: 2.750

Max speed: 230 km/h

Fully Customizable LSD
Initial Torque: 5
Acceleration Sensitivity: 20
Braking Sensitivity: 5

Suspension
Ride Height Adjustment (mm): -10 / -10
Spring Rate (kgf/mm): 6.0 / 6.5
Dampers (Extension): 10 / 10
Dampers (Compression): 4 / 2
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 / 7
Camber Angle (-): 2.0 / 2.0
Toe Angle: -0.50 / -0.30

Brake Balance Controller
Brake Balance: 2 / 5

Driving Options
ASM: Off
TCS: 0
ABS: 1

Unlike Ford, who ramped up the displacement with every update, Chevrolet chose to keep their smallblocks just like that: Small. This '69 Camaro Z/28 has just 4949cc's of displacement, which is plenty for small and light car such as this ponycar war veteran. But, for some people, it wasn't enough. Encouraged by the example of Yenko Camaro, Chevroled developed a prototype of monstrous roadgoing racecar that would have 2/3 more power than the stock Z/28, while retaining the original displacement. In addition other clever race-bred innovations were incorporated within the chassis: Weight distribution was tweaked, a locking differential was adjusted for more accurate handling, suspension was lowered and adjusted. Just when everything was set for annihilating Ford, executives canceled the project and told the engineers to start designing the next generation of Camaro. Had the project been finished, it would had been called Z/496, which of course was a nod towards the measured horsepower - AT THE WHEELS!
 
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You guys talked me into it, now I have to do a shootout! Muscle cars are my weakness! well, one of them. :lol
 
Leonidae@MFT
Chevrolet Camaro Z/496'69

496 bhp, 590 Nm, 1280 kg, PP 534
Painted in Tuxedo Black from Chevrolet


Clickable for full size​
Click to expand...

Either you have not mentioned the Stage 3 Weight reduction or the end weight is wrong, as with just the window and carbon bonnet, it comes down to 1400kg.
 
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Review for review? :sly: I've started a new garage myself and it's hard getting onto the scene...

Anyway, did I review your Lotus Elise Sport 220? I've forgotten...
It's fast. Probably due to the sheer lightness of the thing, but it out-accelerates just about anything on a similar PP level. Out-corners them too, I lashed it round Cape Ring Periphery on Arcade and was really very impressed, sharp turn in, and the tail just hanging out on corner exit if you planted the power too soon, but it was very controllable. After a while I began throwing it at corners wildly since the car made me feel confident, and let's just say sometimes that didn't go so well... :lol:
Interesting to note that B-spec Bob had a much easier time with it too, winning the British Lightweights event with ease whereas before I was tearing my hair out at why he couldn't overtake the bloody car in front :lol:

Great tune overall, keep it up :)
 
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