The Death of HD-DVD 2006-2008

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Robin

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March 31st 2006 - February 19th 2008

Today Toshiba has pulled the HD-DVD format and Blu Ray is victorious, seems like Sony got on the right band wagon this time and using the PS3 to further help the format was a brilliant move.

Heres the info...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm

and the video of Atsutoshi Nishida the president of Toshiba announcing the defeat..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/ne.../7253548.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&asb=1&news=1&bbcws=1

An interesting overview of how the PS3 lead Sony to this victory...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252506.stm

Production of all HD-DVD equipment and players will stop and there will be amazing deals to be had on the films which are all going to be on offer for bargain basement prices...

So what are peoples thoughts, even though this outcome could be seen ages ago... I see sales of the PS3 going through the roof!

Robin
 
I foresee a BluRay equipped Xbox360 either Q4 2008 or Q1 2009...

Glad this format war crap is over and that my team won !....
 
You didn't need to be Mystic Meg to see this one coming. I am surprised the towel has been thrown in so quickly though.
 
I foresee a BluRay equipped Xbox360 either Q4 2008 or Q1 2009...

Glad this format war crap is over and that my team won !....

Yeah Im glad I also made the right call!

Blu Ray equipped Xbox.... thats if Sony give them the license! :lol:
 
Yeah Im glad I also made the right call!

Blu Ray equipped Xbox.... thats if Sony give them the license! :lol:

They will - At US$ 1000 pr. unit :-P

I think they'll have to, antitrust and whatnots flying around - Besides - It's more money to Sony any which way :-)
 
The whole reason my wife bought me Little Hou... er, a PS3 is because of Warner pulling the plug on HD-DVD. This just seals the deal. About damn time.
 
It might be worth buying a player for like £20 just to play all the blockbusters for like £5 each! :lol:
 
It might be worth buying a player for like £20 just to play all the blockbusters for like £5 each! :lol:

That's my plan my good man - A few select HDDVDs for 5 bucks each won't hurt - And then replace the DVD drive in the HTPC with a HDDVD thingy.. Already have BD in the PS3 :-P
 
Today Toshiba has pulled the HD-DVD format and Blu Ray is victorious, seems like Sony got on the right band wagon this time and using the PS3 to further help the format was a brilliant move.

Hate to break it to you, but shoveling money at companies isn't the right way to win a format war. There were a lot of people in the tech industry who wanted HD-DVD to win because it was cheaper, easier to use, and far more applicable to technology that was already on the shelf. Furthermore, if you really think about it, the name "HD-DVD" should have been an instant win. People recognize the "HD" name and match that with HDTV, and obviously the "DVD" name with all of the movies that they've been buying for the last eight years.

On a personal level, I'm mad at both Sony and Toshiba for even letting this happen in the first place. There was absolutely no reason for it. Shoveling money at different companies, bullying manufacturers, and outright under-performing with overall quality is by no means a guarantee for a win.

While your opinion that Sony pushing the format in the PS3 had an effect is partially true, it is an extremely small portion of why the format had eventually succeeded. The formats were essentially even in performance (I'm not going to debate the capacity thing, its not worth it right now), the application/use of HD-DVD was better to begin with, but the problem was that Warner had millions of dollars thrown at them and they chose a side. It wasn't about sales or performance of the format, it was about the instant payoff. They had been planning to go to HD-DVD exclusively with 20th Century Fox in toe, and if that would have happened, this war would have been far from over.

While its nice to finally have a solution to the whole issue, and furthermore, have my choices be that much easier when I decide to buy a Hi-Def player, it by no means makes me any less mad at Sony and Toshiba.

I'll likely buy the Blu-Ray attachment for my X360 when that debuts, word is it will happen as soon as May or June, and units packaged with the drive could be on the shelf by the holiday season.

But the truth in all of this is that Microsoft is right: Its digital distribution that will win out in the end, and having them bleed-out Sony should have interesting effects a few years down the road. Let this NETFLIX deal go through on PSN and XBL or have more people aware of what they can do with the Apple TV Take 2, and I'd be willing to bet a lot of people give up buying DVDs altogether.
 
Furthermore, if you really think about it, the name "HD-DVD" should have been an instant win. People recognize the "HD" name and match that with HDTV, and obviously the "DVD" name with all of the movies that they've been buying for the last eight years.
Personally, I think new technology should have a different name from the tech their "replacing". Using your reasoning, DVD's should have been called VHS-D's ([SIZE=-1]Video Home System-Disc)[/SIZE] or something along those lines. Granted the form factor changed from VHS and DVD and didn't between DVD's and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.

New tech = new name.
 
YSSMAN
Hate to break it to you, but shoveling money at companies isn't the right way to win a format war.

Pretty much every studio that supported blu-ray exclusively from the beginning stated the copy protection and extra disc space of blu-ray as their reason for doing so.

Warner left HD-DVD because blu-ray software outsold HD-DVD software considerably for 50+ straight weeks. Warner knew HD-DVD was going nowhere and becoming exlusive to them would create somehwhat of a stalemate, but joining the BDA exclusively would effectively end the format war.

When asked if they were paid off Warner has consistantly said "We wish."

And why should you acuse the BDA of shoveling money at companies when Toshiba has admitted buying out exlusive HD movie support from Paramount for $250,000,000?

YSSMAN
There were a lot of people in the tech industry who wanted HD-DVD to win because it was cheaper, easier to use, and far more applicable to technology that was already on the shelf. Furthermore, if you really think about it, the name "HD-DVD" should have been an instant win. People recognize the "HD" name and match that with HDTV, and obviously the "DVD" name with all of the movies that they've been buying for the last eight years.

Does it really matter what the prices are right now? So what if the cheapest 1080p blu-ray player is $100 more expensive then the cheapest 1080p HD-DVD player right now. The format is not even 2 years old. I remember DVD players being $300+ when they first were released, but now anything more expensive then Toshiba's 720p/1080i $200 players is too expensive? I don't think so

Also, Toshiba had to take losses to sell their players so cheap, and that's why very few (if any) manufactures besides them made HD-DVD players, because they couldn't compete with such low prices, they weren't willing to take the losses Toshiba was on every player.

YSSMAN
While your opinion that Sony pushing the format in the PS3 had an effect is partially true, it is an extremely small portion of why the format had eventually succeeded. The formats were essentially even in performance (I'm not going to debate the capacity thing, its not worth it right now), the application/use of HD-DVD was better to begin with, but the problem was that Warner had millions of dollars thrown at them and they chose a side. It wasn't about sales or performance of the format, it was about the instant payoff. They had been planning to go to HD-DVD exclusively with 20th Century Fox in toe, and if that would have happened, this war would have been far from over.

Which is exactly why they didn't. Warner has denied being paid off, and until they do I see no reason to believe they were

YSSMAN
While its nice to finally have a solution to the whole issue, and furthermore, have my choices be that much easier when I decide to buy a Hi-Def player, it by no means makes me any less mad at Sony and Toshiba.

You should be mad at Microsoft, without their backing of HD-DVD the format would have died a long time ago

YSSMAN
But the truth in all of this is that Microsoft is right: Its digital distribution that will win out in the end, and having them bleed-out Sony should have interesting effects a few years down the road. Let this NETFLIX deal go through on PSN and XBL or have more people aware of what they can do with the Apple TV Take 2, and I'd be willing to bet a lot of people give up buying DVDs altogether.


lol

Attack of the downloads

I have a netflix account and can watch movies instantly on my pc but I don't. It's just not that great, especially with a BB connection that only averages around 150kbs download. You get a nice low bit rate picture. Putting a blu-ray disc into your playstation and watching it on your HDTV, theres nothing like that

If downloads are going to win out then may I ask who here has bought and downloaded a movie? (Crickets chirp) That's right.

Microsoft and Apple are very delusional, they think because music downloads are such a success then movie downloads will be too, but thats making things too simple

The average song is 5 mbs
The average DVD is 8,500 mbs
The average BD is 30-50,000 mbs.

Downloadable music is popular because you don't have to buy the whole album anymore, you can pick and choose the hits.

That doesn't apply to movies.

Ipods are popular because they are tiny and are great for those on the go, but once again, that does not apply to movies. People prefer to sit down in a comfortable place to watch a movie on a TV, and the bigger the TV the better.

And who wants to store their movie collection on their PC, which will not only take up alot of your space, but your PC is always vulernable to viruses and corruptions, alot of things that can wipe out your collection. And expect rules with what you can do to your movies. They may say you can make only 1 copy per purchase, or you are only allowed to redownload the movie 2 times all sorts of rules

I could go on and on but the whole download thing is rediculous right now

Maybe in 2020 downloading movies may make up a fraction of movie sales, just maybe
 
I think your reasoning is completely valid, but you've gotta remember that most of us here are generally well-informed over the pros and cons of the various formats over one another. You've gotta try to think like Joe Schmoe who wants a new player to compliment his new HDTV, who walks into WalMart or BestBuy, not knowing what to get. The name "HD-DVD" would likely mean a lot more to someone who has no idea what they're doing, the general "Whats a Blu-Ray?" and what not following.

It depends. Sony did a better job throwing money at the companies and advertising, HD-DVD did a better job with introducing the format and gaining support of large portions of the tech industry.

Of course, the thing is, the largest contingent was the "wait and see crowd" that even I was a part of. Although Blu-Ray may have won-out, I'm still waiting at least a year so that prices can come down to $100 for the player and have the Blu-Ray movies dip regularly below $20.

I'm an angry tech guy who didn't pick a format, doesn't have enough stuff at home to reap the full benefits of either format, but only chose to care because it was happening as we speak. The studios say things, and do the exact opposite, its what happens. I don't believe Warner for a second that money wasn't involved, because they were looking to get a kickback for going HD-DVD exclusive too.

I don't like the whole thing either way. Toshiba shouldn't have dragged this out this long, Sony shouldn't have tried to shove yet another format down our throats (UMD? Mini Disc?). So I look towards the future with digital downloads, no big deal. I haven't bought into it yet (I like the whole thing where I have it in front of me), but I definitely think it will catch on.
 
Hate to break it to you, but shoveling money at companies isn't the right way to win a format war. There were a lot of people in the tech industry who wanted HD-DVD to win because it was cheaper, easier to use, and far more applicable to technology that was already on the shelf. Furthermore, if you really think about it, the name "HD-DVD" should have been an instant win. People recognize the "HD" name and match that with HDTV, and obviously the "DVD" name with all of the movies that they've been buying for the last eight years.
Just as many people in the tech industry did not agree that HD-DVD was the right way to go, that's an argument that could be put either way. You are right that in theory the name HD-DVD should have been a better draw to the mass public, but it wasn't, HD-DVD movie sales failed to match Blu-Ray at any point for over a year. Toshiba dropped the ball in a big way when it came to playing on that brand and have admitted as much.



On a personal level, I'm mad at both Sony and Toshiba for even letting this happen in the first place. There was absolutely no reason for it. Shoveling money at different companies, bullying manufacturers, and outright under-performing with overall quality is by no means a guarantee for a win.
Don't disagree that both parties were as bad as each other, but it goes well beyond Sony and Toshiba, the BR Consortium and DVD Consortium consist of a lot more than they two companies.


While your opinion that Sony pushing the format in the PS3 had an effect is partially true, it is an extremely small portion of why the format had eventually succeeded. The formats were essentially even in performance (I'm not going to debate the capacity thing, its not worth it right now), the application/use of HD-DVD was better to begin with, but the problem was that Warner had millions of dollars thrown at them and they chose a side. It wasn't about sales or performance of the format, it was about the instant payoff. They had been planning to go to HD-DVD exclusively with 20th Century Fox in toe, and if that would have happened, this war would have been far from over.
You may want to ignore the capacity argument, but it has been a factor, most early adopters of HD formats have been die hard Home Cinema fans and the lack of capacity for 1080P picture and uncompressed audio on a number of key HD-DVD releases has been a significant issue (Transformers in particular).

The only pay-off of a studio that has been proven was from the HD-DVD side of the fence with the $150 million to Paramount, the WB and Fox move to HD-DVD being stopped by a pay off has never been anything more than internet speculation. However even if money did change hands the sales figures involved do show a consumer bias towards films on BR over HD-DVD, something studios are unlikely to simply ignore for a dollar sum.


But the truth in all of this is that Microsoft is right: Its digital distribution that will win out in the end, and having them bleed-out Sony should have interesting effects a few years down the road. Let this NETFLIX deal go through on PSN and XBL or have more people aware of what they can do with the Apple TV Take 2, and I'd be willing to bet a lot of people give up buying DVDs altogether.

Nothing that is currently on offer to download or stream offers the same bit-rate needed to match either a BR or HD-DVD movie, 30+MPS would be required for the video signal alone. A hell of a lot of countries simply are not even near having the infrastructure to deliver than kind of traffic, not to mention the scale of server farms that would be required to feed it. We are still quite a way from true HD content (as in 1080P and uncompressed audio) delivered down a line. That's also ignoring that a large number of people still very much like physical products, nothing on earth would ever convince me that a download of the Blade Runner films would be a better use of my money in comparison to owning the actual 5 disc boxed set with all the extras.

Its exactly this time frame that leads many people to believe the reason MS supported HD-DVD was to prolong the format war, had it lasted as long as the Beta / VHS one (a decade) it would have bought a lot of time for infrastructure to get put in place and storage costs to come down in price.

Sony shouldn't have tried to shove yet another format down our throats (UMD? Mini Disc?).
Slight correction here. Blu-ray as a concept existed well before HD-DVD (first shown at the CEATEC exhibition in October 2000) and was presented as a High Def format to the DVD Forum (as it was know at that time) before HD-DVD was even born. As late as 2002 the DVD forum were still looking at compressing HD content onto DVD-9's and it was not until August of 2002 that HD-DVD was presented as a solution.

Sony didn't shove another format down our throats, Toshiba and the DVD Forum did.


Scaff
 
Nothing that is currently on offer to download or stream offers the same bit-rate needed to match either a BR or HD-DVD movie, 30+MPS would be required for the video signal alone. A hell of a lot of countries simply are not even near having the infrastructure to deliver than kind of traffic, not to mention the scale of server farms that would be required to feed it. We are still quite a way from true HD content (as in 1080P and uncompressed audio) delivered down a line. That's also ignoring that a large number of people still very much like physical products, nothing on earth would ever convince me that a download of the Blade Runner films would be a better use of my money in comparison to owning the actual 5 disc boxed set with all the extras.
Agreed. I have a 7 meg DSL connection and I can still make the trip to *insert store of choice here* to pick up a movie faster than my TiVo can download the 3 gigs (somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 hours). God forbid the time it would take to download full HD with my connection.
 
How did UMD end up in the conversation? Lol, Sony did not "shove" it in anyones face and it was the best solution available.

Digital distro is not the future, its an option. Thats something that would have to be forced onto people and it would alienate millions of viewers. Millions of people don't even have broadband internet, cable TV or satellite. Yet they still rent or buy movies.

Agreed. I have a 7 meg DSL connection and I can still make the trip to *insert store of choice here* to pick up a movie faster than my TiVo can download the 3 gigs (somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 hours). God forbid the time it would take to download full HD with my connection.

Sounds like a step backwards if you ask me. So now men have to call their wives to have dinner and the downloaded movie ready by the time he gets home from work.
 
.
Sony shares surge on HD DVD demise
Blu-ray makers stock sees boost following Toshiba's back out of format war; analysts peg PS3 as new format war winner.


By Emma Boyes, GameSpot UK
Posted Feb 20, 2008 2:19 am GMT

Sony's shares gained nearly five percent today on news that Toshiba will be bowing out of the latest movie format wars, reports Reuters. The announcement that it will cease production of HD DVD players before the end of April leaves Blu-ray, which is integrated into the PlayStation 3 console, as the victorious format.

Sony's stock in the US hit a high of $47.07 in early trade on the New York Stock Exchange, before dropping slightly to $46.96, up $2.18 or 4.87 percent from Friday's close.

Analysts were in agreement that the demise of HD DVD was a boon for Sony and could ultimately be bad news for Microsoft's console. William Blair & Company analyst Ralph Shackart said that, "We believe Blu-ray's victory could drive market share gains for the PS3, as we believe consumers will now be more willing to pay up (versus 360) for the standard Blu-ray player."

Wedbush Morgan Securities' Michael Pachter told GameSpot that he agreed. He said, "Educated consumers who have been holding off buying on the format war to make a decision will now probably buy a PS3. Uneducated consumers who have no idea that there was a format war are likely to get pushed to buy a PS3 by sales clerks. Retail sales clerks being what they are, they are now really, really going to push sales of Blu-ray, and therefore the PS3."

Pachter believes that by the end of this year's holiday season, the PS3 is likely to now emerge victorious in the console war. He told GameSpot, "The real problem for the 360 is that very few people will buy a 360 and a PS3. So therefore, every PS3 sale will likely mean that person won't buy a 360, so this news will ultimately hurt 360 sales. But I don't think it will hurt the Wii. If I had to bet, I'd say Microsoft gets no more than 30 percent of the total install base, and Sony and Microsoft slug it out, and Sony will ultimately prevail."
 
Sounds like a step backwards if you ask me. So now men have to call their wives to have dinner and the downloaded movie ready by the time he gets home from work.
My TiVo's are networked so everything can be done online. No talking required. :D
 
I'm so glad I held out from buying the HD-DVD add on for the 360. I should have my PS3 next month, although I won't be buying many Bluray films straight away.

There was never going to be enough room for both of them in the market.
 
Thats why this has been such a relief for so many people, including myself. The links I posted in the other thread had a really interesting way of looking at the situation, probably the most entertaining being the theory that Microsoft just did this to piss Sony off. No real reason other than that...

Unless Sony magically releases a $120 Blu-Ray 2.0 player for Christmas, I'll likely get around to getting a PS3 sometime in the future to facilitate my High-Def DVD needs. Of course, I'll likely have to buy a 1080p capable TV, because 720p "just isn't enough."
 
Finally its over. I have been waiting so I could decide if I would get the HD DVD player or the Blue Ray player. Now I might actually have a good reason to get a PS3 unless they get a cheap Blue Ray player add on for the 360.
Glad I never bought the HD-DVD player.
 
G4 = super Xbox and HDVD fanboys. It's kind of gross.
 
Really? Because I had thought for a while that they were getting in bed with Sony for a bit...

I honestly don't watch it that often anymore. The BBC is on...
 
So when is Transformers coming to Blu-ray?

Of course, I'll likely have to buy a 1080p capable TV, because 720p "just isn't enough."

On smaller TVs 720p is just fine. Same as it is with computer monitors, smaller ones can run smaller resolutions but still look just as clear.

G4 = super Xbox and HDVD fanboys. It's kind of gross.

Haha really. How is an HDDVD more "user friendly" than Blu-ray? It's just a disc you pop in, what's the difference besides what player you buy?
 
HD-DVD Funeral Ceremony

Gawd that was
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hilarious, glad I tuned in. Good
censored1ap.gif
riddance.

Here's a going away present. :lol:

 
What are HD DVDs? Guess I won't know, because they're dead!

I am glad that madness is over. One can always achieve that blue finish for less by resurfacing a disc.

Edit: Ack! Those are different entities!
 
The argument that the HD-DVD name is easier to understand is ok but to most, Blu Ray sounds alot cooler and alot more high-tech than DVD with HD infront of it. I prefer the name Blu Ray over HD-DVD.

Also if you are looking for a cheaper BR player, Sony is selling a 40GB PS3 for $299.99, that is an amazing deal for a BR player right there and it also plays video-games, music, internet browser, I am surprised that they aren't already flying off the shelves. I do expect the sales of PS3's to go up now that they are one of the cheapest BR players and do alot more than just play HD movies.
 
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