British Car Insurance

  • Thread starter Sniffs
  • 65 comments
  • 2,458 views
Sniffs

Sniffs

2,568
we're waiting for the PS4
fishtailrook1 (?)
i'm screwing around with top gear vids on youtube, and run into a 17 year old's Insurance challenge. what amazed me was the fact that one quote came up over £8000! for a car that, in the US, would get you a major discount cause it's small, fuel efficent, and not a 2 door.

could someone give a basic explination on how insurance rates are set up there?

oh, if anyone else wants to compare for their country (and yarp (complain) about their setup while they're at it), feel free. I'll try to explain some of what I know of US insurance.
 
Cars comes in insurance groups. The group number, along with what side and how far away from 25 your are, is then used to work out exactly how hard they shaft you.
 
And your postcode/zip-code has a large influence depending on what the crime rate is like in your area. High crime rate = more expensive insurance.

Also, I think the crazy quotes like £8000 are just to ward you off going with that company as they obviously think you're too great a risk to take on.
 
There's no time for rates...







...when these adverts are flying around everywhere on your TV screens here. :lol:

We're so unfortunate... :(
 
okay, care to explain, if you know, how the groupings are set up? I heard something once about them counting the displacement of the engine in, as well.

I know they do the "time in" thing as well over here. however, since i got started late in driving, I didn't get a rate reduction till I was over 30, rather than at 25
 
Sniffs
what amazed me was the fact that one quote came up over £8000!
Click to expand...

It's the insurance groups way of saying they don't want your business. For example I was recently quoted £9000 from Asda to insure a 1999 1.2l Ford Fiesta worth £250. I then for a laugh decided to see how much insurance was on a Ferrari F40 and the only insurance company that would insure me wanted £9000.
 
Displacement is a factor, as is miles you drive, where it is parked, your job risks, etc.
 
Sniffs
okay, care to explain, if you know, how the groupings are set up? I heard something once about them counting the displacement of the engine in, as well.

I know they do the "time in" thing as well over here. however, since i got started late in driving, I didn't get a rate reduction till I was over 30, rather than at 25
Click to expand...

Everything about the car short of colour affects it's group. Also if you perform any modifications what so ever, by law they have to be declared and especially with younger drivers they affect insurance cost more than the group of a car.

Want to put alloys on, sports exhaust and lower it? That will typically put it higher than just buying the GTI or whatever model in the first place.

There are some odd things that affect it though. I have a car which is a special edition, the difference between it and a normal trim is it has sports seats, sports steering wheel, mud flaps, alloys and no ABS but it is one insurance group lower than standard.
 
okay. i got away with only 1000 bucks per 6 months for a 9 year old ford built saloon (imagine either a stretched Cortina, or a saloon version of a mustang), I could make payments on the insurance, and carried what they now call "state minimum" insurance (for use against Idiots that aren't carrying ANY insurance). does that sound like I got off easy?
 
Sniffs
okay, care to explain, if you know, how the groupings are set up? I heard something once about them counting the displacement of the engine in, as well.
Click to expand...

I think it's not so much the displacement of the engine as it is the output. So a Focus 1.6 with 110bhp would in theory be a higher group than a Focus 1.6 with 90bhp, provided they're identical in every other way. The rest comes down to potential repair costs, I'd imagine.

Of course the groups themselves can be completely disregarded by insurance companies - they're really just a guide. The cost of your insurance then comes down to some horridly complex combination of who you are, where you live, how many times a car similar to yours has been stolen... It's all quite statistics heavy I think. I managed to save £100 by parking my car on the road rather than the driveway, I kid you not, I'm guessing because there were more cars stolen from drives than roads over the last couple of years or something. Similarly, saying my car was worth £2700 earned me a cheaper premium than when I said it was £2500, but going over that magic figure meant I was charged more. Weirder yet, I was playing around last year and found that adding a year to the age of a car added a significant amount to the cost. As an example, A 2008 C4 SX worth £10k was something like £1200/year, while an absolutely identical model from 2004 worth £4500 would cost me £1500.
 
The last time I told someone on GTPlanet how insurance actually works in the UK, he told me he hoped my girlfriend crashed her car and died.

True story.
 
Jondot
I think it's not so much the displacement of the engine as it is the output. So a Focus 1.6 with 110bhp would in theory be a higher group than a Focus 1.6 with 90bhp, provided they're identical in every other way. The rest comes down to potential repair costs, I'd imagine.

Of course the groups themselves can be completely disregarded by insurance companies - they're really just a guide. The cost of your insurance then comes down to some horridly complex combination of who you are, where you live, how many times a car similar to yours has been stolen... It's all quite statistics heavy I think. I managed to save £100 by parking my car on the road rather than the driveway, I kid you not, I'm guessing because there were more cars stolen from drives than roads over the last couple of years or something. Similarly, saying my car was worth £2700 earned me a cheaper premium than when I said it was £2500, but going over that magic figure meant I was charged more. Weirder yet, I was playing around last year and found that adding a year to the age of a car added a significant amount to the cost. As an example, A 2008 C4 SX worth £10k was something like £1200/year, while an absolutely identical model from 2004 worth £4500 would cost me £1500.
Click to expand...

You really do have to shop around and try changing as many variables as you can. The age thing definitely rings true, I've been getting some quotes for MR-2s. A 1.6 Mk1 worth £1,000 doing 4,000 miles was £2,700 per year, a 1.8 Mk3 worth £2,500 doing same mileage was £2,300 per year.
 
When my dad switched insurance from a 330i with extensive modifications, to a standard old Ford fiesta 1.2 (I think it was that size engine anyway), the insurance company wanted to charge £50 per year more than for the said BMW.

Utter madness.

The variable thing is definitely true also, I also found parking on the road to be £100 cheaper than parking on your drive.
 
And yet, at the same time, it makes sense.

Who drives Fiestas - and in fact all hatchbacks? Young kids. Who has the most accidents? Young kids. Who has the biggest accidents? Young kids. Who drives mid-range BMWs? Reps. Who drive the most miles with the fewest accidents? Reps.

So data shows that small, pokey engined hatchbacks are involved in more accidents and more expensive accidents (property damage, multiple cars, deaths) than mid-range saloons and small hatchbacks become more of an insurance risk than mid-range saloons.

That's one of the ways it works - notice Sureboss quoting lower insurance prices for Mk1 and Mk3 MR2s than for hatchbacks, precisely for this reason...
 
I think that quote on the Mk3 MR2 was very attractive...

Also, I've had quotes on 1.3 Skoda Felicia's in the £1800 range. Amusingly.
 
Famine

Who drives Fiestas - and in fact all hatchbacks? Young kids. Who has the most accidents? Young kids. Who has the biggest accidents? Young kids. Who drives mid-range BMWs? Reps. Who drive the most miles with the fewest accidents? Reps.
Click to expand...
This is the true rape that insurance companies commit. Let's charge you extra because people your age get into accidents. Let's charge you extra because other people who drive the same car as you get into accidents. Oh, and don't forget...we have to charge you extra because you got a speeding ticket...which means you'll have an accident.

It's all "statistics", but insurance companies crunch whatever numbers they can to extract money from the people they insure, whether they're good drivers or bad drivers.
 
Famine
And yet, at the same time, it makes sense.

Who drives Fiestas - and in fact all hatchbacks? Young kids. Who has the most accidents? Young kids. Who has the biggest accidents? Young kids. Who drives mid-range BMWs? Reps. Who drive the most miles with the fewest accidents? Reps.

So data shows that small, pokey engined hatchbacks are involved in more accidents and more expensive accidents (property damage, multiple cars, deaths) than mid-range saloons and small hatchbacks become more of an insurance risk than mid-range saloons.

That's one of the ways it works - notice Sureboss quoting lower insurance prices for Mk1 and Mk3 MR2s than for hatchbacks, precisely for this reason...
Click to expand...

Well yes, it makes sense on the basis that 1.2 fiesta are involved in far more crashes than 330i's.

Where it fails, is because despite having all the driver info, it is unable to differentiate between a driver of 17 years of age and a driver 50 years of age. Being the only named driver on the car, its hard to see how it makes sense.

The only way I can it actually reflecting reality - if Dad lends (or the car is 'borrowed' of dad) the 1.2 fiesta too his son who isn't actually insured on it. The kid then goes on to crash the car, and dad takes the blame for the accident, to protect the son. Such an incident would be flagged up as 50 year old dads struggling to keep their Fiesta's on the road, but in reality, its not the case.

If such a scenario happens a lot in the UK, then I could certainly see why a 1.2 fiesta with just Dad on it warrants the higher insurance.

I'm more inclined to believe its just poorly interpreted data by the machine though.
 
so, because the kids can only afford sub 1.5 liter hatchbacks, they're labeled as the most dangerous on British roads? and I thought American Bureaucracy was stupid :P

there was a rumor floating around here, once, that they really do check your car's paint color for your insurance rates. one thing I can confirm is that they now check your credit score here, and can deny you insurance coverage for your "619" number (the general minimum credit score number is 620). one of my former insurance carriers was hit with a heavy class-action lawsuit for doing just that (canceling and changing people's policies) because of their credit score. what they weren't doing was telling customers they were doing it. when they got nailed for that, i wrote off any money they were due from me.
 
ireland is very similar to the uk when it comes to insurence for young drivers

my first quote was €4,500 as a named driver in a toyota avensis 1.6
 
Sniffs
so, because the kids can only afford sub 1.5 liter hatchbacks, they're labeled as the most dangerous on British roads? and I thought American Bureaucracy was stupid :P

there was a rumor floating around here, once, that they really do check your car's paint color for your insurance rates. one thing I can confirm is that they now check your credit score here, and can deny you insurance coverage for your "619" number (the general minimum credit score number is 620). one of my former insurance carriers was hit with a heavy class-action lawsuit for doing just that (canceling and changing people's policies) because of their credit score. what they weren't doing was telling customers they were doing it. when they got nailed for that, i wrote off any money they were due from me.
Click to expand...

No that's not how it works. You buy a little 1.0 and it's group 1, that means it's possible to get insured on it if you're under 25 and if you're over 25 it's cheap as chips. You get something in the 2.0 or more region and you're up to about group 15 or higher, and the under 25 year old is either not going to find insurance, or if they've scrimped a few years no claims and don't mind seriously bending over and taking it, can find insurance for it while the 25+ year old probably only pays a small amount more than the small economy car.

The fact is in the UK, insurance rates relative to the stats involved are quite fair. If you are young, it's expensive no matter what, you are effectively priced out of powerful cars because the statistics of being young coupled with a car being powerful mean you are almost certain to be a claimant.

You have to divulge more personal information for driving insurance than you do to work with children all in the fight for the lower quote. The result, low risk people pay a fraction less, high risk people pay magnitudes more.
 
An old person in a old 1.0 chav hatchback could get insurance for £50 a year.
So the car type in image terms is not much of a factor, unless it is in connection to an already at risk driver.
 
Stevisiov
Well yes, it makes sense on the basis that 1.2 fiesta are involved in far more crashes than 330i's.

Where it fails, is because despite having all the driver info, it is unable to differentiate between a driver of 17 years of age and a driver 50 years of age. Being the only named driver on the car, its hard to see how it makes sense.
Click to expand...

Try doing a quote with exactly the same details, but for a 17 year old driver. You'll see that it does differentiate between the two drivers - your dad can actually insure it, for example, without having to sell a kidney. It's just higher for him than a 330i because Fiestas are involved in more and bigger accidents than 330is are.


There's only three problems with the insurance industry in the UK. First, the premiums are about twice as high as they ought to be. Second, they're still making a loss (genuinely) because of all the ridiculous personal injury claims and "whiplash" from every incident. Thirdly, it's a cartel - you're legally required to buy this product if you're going to drive anywhere and almost all of the insurers are controlled (underwritten) by the same four companies. How it's actually calculated is largely sane - though there's the occasional surprise.
 
Try doing a quote with exactly the same details, but for a 17 year old driver. You'll see that it does differentiate between the two drivers - your dad can actually insure it, for example, without having to sell a kidney. It's just higher for him than a 330i because Fiestas are involved in more and bigger accidents than 330is are.
Click to expand...
that's how the guys at top gear pulled off the "car for a 17 year old" challenge
 
Thought I would throw my hat into the ring!

So I recently bought a Reliant robin for £350. If you dont know, the robin is a three wheel motor tricycle that can be insured as a car but can be driven with a bike license.

Anywho. I've tried insuring this thing and people really are taking the piss. Im 19, no convictions, no kids to look after, full time employment, safe place to park all the normal stuff.

I cannot get a quote lower than £2,700 at this time. 2,700 for a three wheel car that is 30 years old, has no modifications, passed every MOT and serviced regulary and they are looking basically £3000 out of my wallet. Yet I know a chick who is two years younger than me, has ruined a Renault Megane with sound systems and alloys and whatnot and she isn't even being charged half of my price. And look at what I'm losing out on!

However, there is light at the end of the tunnel. A work colleague pointed this out to me the other day to MY DELIGHT!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/feb/19/insurance-pensions-price-equality

It's hitting the European Court of Justice, and that could make a big difference for me and hopefully I can get on the road soon enough :)


EDIT: for what's worth. I used moneysupermarket.com which seems to be the only one that actually gets me the 2,700. I've tried ringing companies only to find that talking to them seems to get my insurance raised. And 9/10 they want me to pay £350 for Volentary access, which of course is how much I paid for the car, so it isn't worth it. How can the government / police not see that THIS is why so many people risk it and drive without insurance?
 
What I find odd is that pensioners don't get charged as much for insurance as young drivers, sure they have experience but that means sweet **** all when they can't react to it because they are old. Sure young drivers lack experience but at least they have the ability to react to a situation in time.
 
Don't get your own insurance until you are past 25. Just get an older relative to insure for you on a new policy, and have you named as the main driver, best way is to share a car then you don't have to be a main driver. If that is not possible, then when you are filling in the quote forms add as many old people as possible to the policy as named drivers, it should halve your premium.
 
No, they just got quotes as if they were 17 year olds. They didn't actually take those policies out - that would be illegal.

The fact is that there are three discreet factors taken into account with car insurance policies in the UK, all to do with the risk you pose to the insurer of them having to give you money.

* The car - the car is assessed for its innate risk. Faster, more powerful cars typically - but not always - present a higher risk than slower, less powerful ones. Collision rates for individual models - right down to trim levels - are included, so if you happen to get a trim level of car that's involved in more crashes than a higher trim level of the same car, you might find the basic quote is higher despite being a lower spec. Cars that are popular with groups involved in more crashes - the young and the elderly - are higher risk. Cars that are popular with groups involved in more expensive (personal injuries/death, multiple vehicle collisions) crashes - the young - are a higher risk. Cars attractive to thieves - poor security or culturally significant - are high risk too. How much your car costs to repair or replace is a big factor - if there's loads of them made out of shared parts, they'll be less of a risk than a limited-run model with lots of bespoke bits. If it's new and expensive, it'll be more of a risk than something old and cheap - though new will be easier to source parts for than very old.
* The location - you don't have to be driving your car for it to be an insurance risk. If you live in an area where there are often crashes with parked vehicles or thefts from motor vehicles, your insurance will be higher. Where you keep your car is important too - there are more thefts from garages now than from driveways, so a seemingly secure garage may pose a higher risk than a driveway even if your car isn't attractive to thieves. How you use it too - driving only for pleasure is less of a risk than commuting, because more crashes occur in rush hour. However, keeping it home during the day is more of a risk than keeping it in a workplace carpark - these are often secured, compared to unattended homes with cars outside which are attractive to thieves.
* The drivers - Kinda self-explanatory. If you've got a speeding ticket, you're more of a risk (you've been caught disregarding the rules of the road). If you've had a crash, you're more of a risk (stats say that if you're involved in one crash, you're likely to be involved in another in the next 5 years - regardless of whose fault either crash was). If you're inexperienced, you're more of a risk (inexperienced drivers run out of talent more often). If you're old, you're more of a risk (senses and reflexes diminish with age). Girls have more crashes that involve little expense; boys have more crashes that involve lots of expense, so boys are more of a risk. The longer you've gone without a crash - "no claims bonus" - the less of a risk you are. Crashes are like buses - you'll either wait ages for one, or they'll come thick and fast.

A lot of this should seem obvious when you read it, though insurance quotes can seem opaque when a kid can get a lower quote for a 1.8 litre, 140hp Mk3 Toyota MR2 than 1.2 litre, 65hp Mk5 Ford Fiesta. The reality is that the MR2 poses less of a risk - less commonly nicked, less commonly crashed, crashes are less expensive (20mph front-end in an MR2 doesn't involve any vital parts - in a Fiesta you involve the entire powertrain and drivetrain) - and it shouldn't be hard to see why it might be the case.

I'm surprised a 52 year old guy finds a Fiesta more expensive than a BMW 330i but I can easily see how it can be the case. Especially when you factor in that insurance companies take the piss.


Incidentally, if I were 17 again, I wouldn't buy anything newer than 1972 as my first car. Cheap insurance, cheap (£0) tax, easy to work on (learn about cars) and way cooler than almost any stamped-out, two-box PoS they churn out these days.
 

Similar threads

Jimlaad43
Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021
28 29 30
Replies
883
Views
48K
Kermit_2142
Kermit_2142
Spock
Buying car insurance for my roommate
Replies
5
Views
912
Duke
Duke
Eunos_Cosmo
The impending automotive shakeup - Crystal ball predictions?
Replies
2
Views
712
Eunos_Cosmo
Eunos_Cosmo
Anathema
Advice needed for a first car.
Replies
24
Views
1K
TheBook
TheBook
G.T
Puzzled with a couple of insurance company assignment questions
Replies
9
Views
2K
G.T
G.T

Latest Posts

Back