- 769
- Tampa, FL
- NingDynasty
A few weeks ago we had decided that one of the upcoming events for the Monday Night Endurance Club would be a Ferrari vs. Lamborghini Battle at Rome. I liked the idea so much that I thought I would do something special with my car of choice for the event the Ferrari F430 Scuderia. With that I present to you my tune review of the Ferrari F430 Scuderia as tuned by RKM Motorsports and Lion's Den Performance.
The Car
The specs for the race were pretty simple. Any non-racing Ferrari or Lamborghini would be allowed to compete and the max you could tune it was 600 Performance Points. Also you would be limited to only being able to use the hard racing tire compound. So I wrote up a list and went shopping.
As you can see I spared no expense. Also you may say to yourself Why did you purchase all of the available HP upgrades if you could only go to 600 Performance Points? Well thanks to one of the recent patches from PD my little friend the Power Limiter will take care of the excess HP without removing the torque we've gained!
Once I finished shopping I called on our good friend's Bob, Bob, Bob and Bob to break her in at the Laguna Seca 200 Miles event. Here are our final numbers once the break in was complete.
681 HP
1119kg
614 PP
The Tunes
With the car broken in and ready to go we set off to grab our tunes from their respective garages. You can find them here.
RKM Motorsports Ferrari F430 Stradista
Lion's Den Performance Ferrari F430 Scuderia GT1
Having a quick look at the tunes I noticed they had different downforce levels so that did give us a bit different horsepower output to get under the 600 PP limit. Here is how they looked HP wise.
Stock 603 HP
RKM Motorsports 603 HP
Lion's Den Performance 590 HP
With my tunes lined up I hit the track and ran about 4 tire stints with stock settings so I could get a good baseline on the car and the track. After getting familiar with both the circuit and the machine, I was so impressed with how the stock tune felt I decided I would add it to the upcoming testing. I then ran about 20 laps with each car to get a feel for them before I put them to the test.
The Qualifying/Time Trial Test
For the Qualifying/Time Trial Test I ran a 10 lap sprint race in my online lounge with the track edge set to real and the tire wear and fuel consumption on. The goal of this test was to see which tune had the best out right speed in a qualifying environment. I noted the fastest lap, fastest sectors, and some speeds through the different sections on the track. You can compare the results for each tune on the following graphic.
The Tire/Race Strategy Test
For the Tire/Race Strategy Test I was looking to see which tune would provide the best tire wear as well as keeping a consistent pace through out the tire wear cycle. As the Club's title states we do endurance races and I need to get my pit strategy down for the 76 lap event.
I ran this test from my online lounge in the pre-race practice session with the track edge set to real and the tire wear and fuel consumption on. To get a good read on how the tires were when they were cold I decided to run 1 lap and pit, that way the first lap on cold tires would be recorded and it would also give me a good gauge on how long an out lap would take. I ran each car until I couldn't complete another lap, however the data in the following graphic illustrates the number of laps it took before the average lap time started to decline. Keep in mind this does include the out lap, which in theory should tell us that once the average lap time starts to decline it's the optimum time to make a pit stop.
Since it's not in the above graphic here are the actual laps completed before I wore the tires off of each car.
Stock 25 Laps (Front Tires Worn)
RKM Motorsports 18 Laps (Rear Tires Worn)
Lion's Den Performance 30 Laps (Front Tires Worn)
Overall Impressions
Ok so I've shown you a few somewhat fancy graphics but I've yet to talk about how the cars handle. I'm not the best racer out there, though I like to think I can hold my own on the track. However when it comes to describing handling characteristics my abilities are somewhat lacking, but I'll give it my best shot.
Stock As I mentioned earlier I was very impressed with how the car felt right out of the gate. For being a street car the default setup is very stiff but still responsive and with that you get confidence. It was the slowest of the 3 but as you can see by the standard deviation in the Tire/Race Strategy Test graphic I was able to run the most consistent set of laps with this tune.
I noticed that this tune had a lot of mid-corner understeer at low speeds. Not so much in turn one but turns 3 and 7 you could tell. However for having 603 HP I didn't have to use all that much throttle control coming out of turns 3 and 7 which allowed me to get on the power quicker. The stiff setup allowed it to stick nicely in the high speed turns 2 and 5. There was the slightest power oversteer on the exit of turn one which actually was great as it helped setup for the transition to turn 2.
RKM Motorsports It felt like a completely different car, which was fast, but scary. The confidence I spoke about as I was describing the stock tune is completely gone and replaced with unpredictability. It definitely feels like it has 600+ horsepower now as I had to use a lot of throttle control even in turn number 2 where the stock tune it was floored. The gearing doesn't use 6th at Rome but it is well spaced so I actually got higher speeds on the straights.
On cold tires entering one I felt a slight bit of lift off oversteer as soon as I released the brake pedal, but it was manageable. It disappeared once the tires warmed up but would return in greater effect as the tires wore, pushing my braking points back farther and farther.
When the tires were at optimal temperature this thing will stick, not quite like the stock tune but enough to where you can get the power you need down. I was pretty amazed at the lap times I was getting during laps 2-6 as I had to be off the throttle more then I was with the other tune but my lap times were a second quicker.
By lap 6 though the car started to slide under no power in the low speed corners and also started sliding under power through turn number 2. By lap 8 the lift off oversteer in turn one I mentioned earlier became more noticeable and started becoming a real problem in turns 3 and 7. Around lap 10 I started getting more and more oversteer through the exit of turn 1, middle of 2 and even the exit of the chicane as the back end just felt lite. By laps 11-12 the lift off issue in 3 and 7 got so bad I started sliding heavily through both turns. Still with all the issues I was running under 1:10's at this point but the tires were really taking a beating and mistakes were becoming easier and easier to make.
By lap 14 it was becoming a crap shoot babying the throttle through turn 2 and the other highspeed turns. The slides through 3 and 7 became more and more damaging to the tires and by lap 18 I completely spun the car and couldn't complete another lap as the rears were gone.
Lion's Den Performance After leaving the pits and taking the car in to turn one I immediately had a sigh of relief as this car responded more like the stock tune. Very stiff, sticky, and quite a bit more responsive then the stock tune. The transmission setup on the car was not doing it any favors however as it felt like the slowest of the 3 down the straights.
The confidence was back however as I ripped off 1:07 after 1:07 after 1:07, 10 straight in fact. Granted the RKM Tune had several 1:06's, but there were also 1:08's mixed in there as well, so this tune was all about balance and consistency. In fact in my audio notes the only thing I have on there are lap times because there were no big mistakes or issues with the car.
There was a bit more throttle control needed than with the stock tune but it was very quick and only in the two low speed corners. The ride through the chicane with this car was a quick, sharp blast. By far the most responsive and predictable of the 3. Even if you happened to power oversteer it through a corner it was predictably controllable.
The tire wear on this car was also very balanced. By lap 12 it started to lose some front grip and understeer through 1 as well as a little bit of a wiggle on the exit of turn 7 but I was still able to consistently lay down 1:08's for another 4 laps after that. As the tires wore the only issue that I noted was the loss of front end grip which was manageable with lower entry speeds.
The tires continued to be consistent as laps 17-21 progressed through the 1:09's and 1:10's. On Lap 20 the wear was still very balanced with ¼ left of the fronts and 1/3 left on the rears. I did remark that it had become an adventure by lap 22 with the on-throttle oversteer on the exit of the slow corners. Laps 22-25 were in the 1:11 range and while I completed 30 laps 26-30 were merely a test of the tires and not of pit strategy ranging from 1:15-1:25. However there were no spins and only a few wall taps on exit on lap 30 when I had no front tires left at all.
Final Thoughts
First off I want to thank Kyle from RKM Motorsports, Paulie from Lion's Den Performance, their partners and all the other tuners here at GTP for providing us less knowledgeable folk with their great work. I truly enjoy driving/racing and these tunes make the drive that much more enjoyable.
Though it may seem like I was kind of down on the RKM tune for being so loose, attempts to master a tune like that when you know the rewards will be diminished lap times are one of the great things about driving in the GT Series.
With that I'll just state more of the obvious. If your looking to have a little track time by yourself and push the limits of a car then the RKM Motorsports Ferrari F430 Stradista is the one for you. It's definitely for the advanced driver and if you can tame it you probably won't be caught. However due to the handling characteristics and unpredictable nature of the tune I do not recommend nor would I race with it, especially in an endurance race.
Handling balance, responsiveness, predictability and consistent tire wear are exactly what I look for in a race car setup and that's just what Lion's Den Performance brings to the table here.
Monday Night Endurance Club - Ferrari vs. Lamborghini This Is War. Again.
March 7th, 2011 Rome Circuit Practice opened up a few minutes before 8 and I jumped in as soon as I could to get a few extra laps in before the race. You can never have to many laps under your belt before an event. I wanted to use the RKM tune for qualifying, but I decided against it because of the issues we've been having in the Suzuki Cappuccino RM Series where I've qualified 1st twice and started 14th and 3rd respectively. Since my tests the other day I've adjusted the transmission on the LDP-R F430 Sucderia to more suit the track and my driving style, so I'm looking forward to seeing what new time I can set.
Luckily there are only 2-3 cars on track so I got in a good 10 clean laps and set a new fast lap time for this setup , a 1:07.3xx, which was also good enough for pole position.
I'm surrounded by Lamborghini's at the start, but not for long...
What was that?!?! You should have seen my face when those 3 blasted right past me. They can't be that fast right? I mean I did get the pole right? My bewilderment lasted only until the first turn when all 3 of the Lambo's who got me off the start engaged in a 4 wheel slide through turn number 1.
As the Lamborghini Drivers battled their Bull's I picked them off one at a time and stalked the leader for 2 laps before overtaking him for the lead on lap 6. I never looked back either... sort of. The lead grew and grew up to 16 seconds by lap 19, my pit window. Low and behold my crew chief informs me that the 2nd place driver isn't planning on stopping till lap 25. The same 2nd place driver who has made his tires last and finished in the top 3 in almost every event we've had. So I lost focus, did not pit and engaged in a duel to see who would pit last. I knew I could go 30, but I also knew I didn't want to.
My lead kept fluctuating from 15-16 seconds as the laps ticked by till I hear that he pitted on lap 25. As soon as I get to turn 7 I enter pit lane. 26 Laps I think to myself not to shabby. Then I start calculating my lap times and the dread starts to set in as I see that 2nd place driver is now in 3rd because someone short stopped and passed him. I come out of the pits to find my lead is only 5 seconds. Blasted crew chief had to ruin my well laid out plans. Luckily with the new rubber and a lighter fuel load we were clicking off consistent low 7's.
The lead immediately started to jump back up. From 5 to 6 to 7, by lap 30 it was back up to 10 seconds and I started to relax a bit and recalculate my pit strategy wanting to make sure I didn't stay out longer then my pit window this time around. By lap 35 I had the margin back up to 16 seconds between me and my nearest competitor and a pretty good idea on my new pit strategy. Then it happened. Some people call it Mechanical Failure or Engine Failure. Either way I'm sure you know this story ends badly.
You have been disconnected from the server.
Rats.
***Amendment***
I redid the tire test for the RKM Motorsports tune a few days ago and I was able to get a much better result. The tire life only went for 2 more laps however the average time went down considerably. However this does not change my stance as for which car to race and which car to time trial with. The car even with 100 laps under my belt is still very unpredictable (and fun!) but I wouldn't want to fight with it over that amount of time.
-Brian
The Car
The specs for the race were pretty simple. Any non-racing Ferrari or Lamborghini would be allowed to compete and the max you could tune it was 600 Performance Points. Also you would be limited to only being able to use the hard racing tire compound. So I wrote up a list and went shopping.
As you can see I spared no expense. Also you may say to yourself Why did you purchase all of the available HP upgrades if you could only go to 600 Performance Points? Well thanks to one of the recent patches from PD my little friend the Power Limiter will take care of the excess HP without removing the torque we've gained!
Once I finished shopping I called on our good friend's Bob, Bob, Bob and Bob to break her in at the Laguna Seca 200 Miles event. Here are our final numbers once the break in was complete.
681 HP
1119kg
614 PP
The Tunes
With the car broken in and ready to go we set off to grab our tunes from their respective garages. You can find them here.
RKM Motorsports Ferrari F430 Stradista
Lion's Den Performance Ferrari F430 Scuderia GT1
Having a quick look at the tunes I noticed they had different downforce levels so that did give us a bit different horsepower output to get under the 600 PP limit. Here is how they looked HP wise.
Stock 603 HP
RKM Motorsports 603 HP
Lion's Den Performance 590 HP
With my tunes lined up I hit the track and ran about 4 tire stints with stock settings so I could get a good baseline on the car and the track. After getting familiar with both the circuit and the machine, I was so impressed with how the stock tune felt I decided I would add it to the upcoming testing. I then ran about 20 laps with each car to get a feel for them before I put them to the test.
The Qualifying/Time Trial Test
For the Qualifying/Time Trial Test I ran a 10 lap sprint race in my online lounge with the track edge set to real and the tire wear and fuel consumption on. The goal of this test was to see which tune had the best out right speed in a qualifying environment. I noted the fastest lap, fastest sectors, and some speeds through the different sections on the track. You can compare the results for each tune on the following graphic.
The Tire/Race Strategy Test
For the Tire/Race Strategy Test I was looking to see which tune would provide the best tire wear as well as keeping a consistent pace through out the tire wear cycle. As the Club's title states we do endurance races and I need to get my pit strategy down for the 76 lap event.
I ran this test from my online lounge in the pre-race practice session with the track edge set to real and the tire wear and fuel consumption on. To get a good read on how the tires were when they were cold I decided to run 1 lap and pit, that way the first lap on cold tires would be recorded and it would also give me a good gauge on how long an out lap would take. I ran each car until I couldn't complete another lap, however the data in the following graphic illustrates the number of laps it took before the average lap time started to decline. Keep in mind this does include the out lap, which in theory should tell us that once the average lap time starts to decline it's the optimum time to make a pit stop.
Since it's not in the above graphic here are the actual laps completed before I wore the tires off of each car.
Stock 25 Laps (Front Tires Worn)
RKM Motorsports 18 Laps (Rear Tires Worn)
Lion's Den Performance 30 Laps (Front Tires Worn)
Overall Impressions
Ok so I've shown you a few somewhat fancy graphics but I've yet to talk about how the cars handle. I'm not the best racer out there, though I like to think I can hold my own on the track. However when it comes to describing handling characteristics my abilities are somewhat lacking, but I'll give it my best shot.
Stock As I mentioned earlier I was very impressed with how the car felt right out of the gate. For being a street car the default setup is very stiff but still responsive and with that you get confidence. It was the slowest of the 3 but as you can see by the standard deviation in the Tire/Race Strategy Test graphic I was able to run the most consistent set of laps with this tune.
I noticed that this tune had a lot of mid-corner understeer at low speeds. Not so much in turn one but turns 3 and 7 you could tell. However for having 603 HP I didn't have to use all that much throttle control coming out of turns 3 and 7 which allowed me to get on the power quicker. The stiff setup allowed it to stick nicely in the high speed turns 2 and 5. There was the slightest power oversteer on the exit of turn one which actually was great as it helped setup for the transition to turn 2.
RKM Motorsports It felt like a completely different car, which was fast, but scary. The confidence I spoke about as I was describing the stock tune is completely gone and replaced with unpredictability. It definitely feels like it has 600+ horsepower now as I had to use a lot of throttle control even in turn number 2 where the stock tune it was floored. The gearing doesn't use 6th at Rome but it is well spaced so I actually got higher speeds on the straights.
On cold tires entering one I felt a slight bit of lift off oversteer as soon as I released the brake pedal, but it was manageable. It disappeared once the tires warmed up but would return in greater effect as the tires wore, pushing my braking points back farther and farther.
When the tires were at optimal temperature this thing will stick, not quite like the stock tune but enough to where you can get the power you need down. I was pretty amazed at the lap times I was getting during laps 2-6 as I had to be off the throttle more then I was with the other tune but my lap times were a second quicker.
By lap 6 though the car started to slide under no power in the low speed corners and also started sliding under power through turn number 2. By lap 8 the lift off oversteer in turn one I mentioned earlier became more noticeable and started becoming a real problem in turns 3 and 7. Around lap 10 I started getting more and more oversteer through the exit of turn 1, middle of 2 and even the exit of the chicane as the back end just felt lite. By laps 11-12 the lift off issue in 3 and 7 got so bad I started sliding heavily through both turns. Still with all the issues I was running under 1:10's at this point but the tires were really taking a beating and mistakes were becoming easier and easier to make.
By lap 14 it was becoming a crap shoot babying the throttle through turn 2 and the other highspeed turns. The slides through 3 and 7 became more and more damaging to the tires and by lap 18 I completely spun the car and couldn't complete another lap as the rears were gone.
Lion's Den Performance After leaving the pits and taking the car in to turn one I immediately had a sigh of relief as this car responded more like the stock tune. Very stiff, sticky, and quite a bit more responsive then the stock tune. The transmission setup on the car was not doing it any favors however as it felt like the slowest of the 3 down the straights.
The confidence was back however as I ripped off 1:07 after 1:07 after 1:07, 10 straight in fact. Granted the RKM Tune had several 1:06's, but there were also 1:08's mixed in there as well, so this tune was all about balance and consistency. In fact in my audio notes the only thing I have on there are lap times because there were no big mistakes or issues with the car.
There was a bit more throttle control needed than with the stock tune but it was very quick and only in the two low speed corners. The ride through the chicane with this car was a quick, sharp blast. By far the most responsive and predictable of the 3. Even if you happened to power oversteer it through a corner it was predictably controllable.
The tire wear on this car was also very balanced. By lap 12 it started to lose some front grip and understeer through 1 as well as a little bit of a wiggle on the exit of turn 7 but I was still able to consistently lay down 1:08's for another 4 laps after that. As the tires wore the only issue that I noted was the loss of front end grip which was manageable with lower entry speeds.
The tires continued to be consistent as laps 17-21 progressed through the 1:09's and 1:10's. On Lap 20 the wear was still very balanced with ¼ left of the fronts and 1/3 left on the rears. I did remark that it had become an adventure by lap 22 with the on-throttle oversteer on the exit of the slow corners. Laps 22-25 were in the 1:11 range and while I completed 30 laps 26-30 were merely a test of the tires and not of pit strategy ranging from 1:15-1:25. However there were no spins and only a few wall taps on exit on lap 30 when I had no front tires left at all.
Final Thoughts
First off I want to thank Kyle from RKM Motorsports, Paulie from Lion's Den Performance, their partners and all the other tuners here at GTP for providing us less knowledgeable folk with their great work. I truly enjoy driving/racing and these tunes make the drive that much more enjoyable.
Though it may seem like I was kind of down on the RKM tune for being so loose, attempts to master a tune like that when you know the rewards will be diminished lap times are one of the great things about driving in the GT Series.
With that I'll just state more of the obvious. If your looking to have a little track time by yourself and push the limits of a car then the RKM Motorsports Ferrari F430 Stradista is the one for you. It's definitely for the advanced driver and if you can tame it you probably won't be caught. However due to the handling characteristics and unpredictable nature of the tune I do not recommend nor would I race with it, especially in an endurance race.
Handling balance, responsiveness, predictability and consistent tire wear are exactly what I look for in a race car setup and that's just what Lion's Den Performance brings to the table here.
Monday Night Endurance Club - Ferrari vs. Lamborghini This Is War. Again.
March 7th, 2011 Rome Circuit Practice opened up a few minutes before 8 and I jumped in as soon as I could to get a few extra laps in before the race. You can never have to many laps under your belt before an event. I wanted to use the RKM tune for qualifying, but I decided against it because of the issues we've been having in the Suzuki Cappuccino RM Series where I've qualified 1st twice and started 14th and 3rd respectively. Since my tests the other day I've adjusted the transmission on the LDP-R F430 Sucderia to more suit the track and my driving style, so I'm looking forward to seeing what new time I can set.
Luckily there are only 2-3 cars on track so I got in a good 10 clean laps and set a new fast lap time for this setup , a 1:07.3xx, which was also good enough for pole position.
I'm surrounded by Lamborghini's at the start, but not for long...
What was that?!?! You should have seen my face when those 3 blasted right past me. They can't be that fast right? I mean I did get the pole right? My bewilderment lasted only until the first turn when all 3 of the Lambo's who got me off the start engaged in a 4 wheel slide through turn number 1.
As the Lamborghini Drivers battled their Bull's I picked them off one at a time and stalked the leader for 2 laps before overtaking him for the lead on lap 6. I never looked back either... sort of. The lead grew and grew up to 16 seconds by lap 19, my pit window. Low and behold my crew chief informs me that the 2nd place driver isn't planning on stopping till lap 25. The same 2nd place driver who has made his tires last and finished in the top 3 in almost every event we've had. So I lost focus, did not pit and engaged in a duel to see who would pit last. I knew I could go 30, but I also knew I didn't want to.
My lead kept fluctuating from 15-16 seconds as the laps ticked by till I hear that he pitted on lap 25. As soon as I get to turn 7 I enter pit lane. 26 Laps I think to myself not to shabby. Then I start calculating my lap times and the dread starts to set in as I see that 2nd place driver is now in 3rd because someone short stopped and passed him. I come out of the pits to find my lead is only 5 seconds. Blasted crew chief had to ruin my well laid out plans. Luckily with the new rubber and a lighter fuel load we were clicking off consistent low 7's.
The lead immediately started to jump back up. From 5 to 6 to 7, by lap 30 it was back up to 10 seconds and I started to relax a bit and recalculate my pit strategy wanting to make sure I didn't stay out longer then my pit window this time around. By lap 35 I had the margin back up to 16 seconds between me and my nearest competitor and a pretty good idea on my new pit strategy. Then it happened. Some people call it Mechanical Failure or Engine Failure. Either way I'm sure you know this story ends badly.
You have been disconnected from the server.
Rats.
***Amendment***
I redid the tire test for the RKM Motorsports tune a few days ago and I was able to get a much better result. The tire life only went for 2 more laps however the average time went down considerably. However this does not change my stance as for which car to race and which car to time trial with. The car even with 100 laps under my belt is still very unpredictable (and fun!) but I wouldn't want to fight with it over that amount of time.
-Brian
