GT Series Major Dissapoint in Tuning&Modifications Through Releases

Benjamin S · Sep 16, 2011

I am a big fan of Gran Turismo, as I have owned all of the releases from 1 to 5. I have quite a few gripes about the last release 5 but this gripe/rant is very disappointing and no one has brought light to it anywhere as far as I know. It's like the developer has forgotten why we like the series. I have noticed a trend that is disconcerting, and I am let down that they keep doing this- so if Sony is reading this- PLEASE STOP doing this from one release to another...

The realistic trend is diminishing as far as I have noticed that the ability to mod cars is diminishing with every edition. This is particular trend is very disappointing, especially when you have set up a car with settings, power and aero a certain way and you know what times you can run on a certain track. You know what cars you can beat. Then you buy the next release with shiny new graphics and physics but it has no ability to, at the least, match where you left off, but actually lose the ability to make the same car match the last release and match and beat your times. The feel of the older cars is getting worse and unrealistic too.

For example, Toyota Supra 93-98 max hp figures:
GT1: don't remember
GT2: 1071hp
GT3:900ish hp
GT4:850hp
GT5:725hp

In real life, the opposite is happening with the Toyota Supra 93-98-
1997- 500hp
1999-1000hp
2005- 1500hp
2011- 2000hp

I had to wait to level 27 to even buy this car when I was looking for it after every race from the start. Why? Things like this really dampen my opinion of the game where one of my all time favorite cars keeps getting demoted in rank, hard to find, crappy physics and modeling, when in the real world the car is still one of the top cars in the world. A Supra set the world record for the standing mile and quarter and time attack in 2008-2011. It's like the "premium car" manufacturers are forcing you to demote some of the older faster cars to keep the premium cars from getting smoked and not played with. You call it a sim but it has no simulation of the development of the cars in real life. Its not hard to find the best tuned most powerful cars in any make in the real world, you just go to that particular car's forum; they usually have them posted somewhere with dyno sheets. All the time they took with GT5 they could have spent 5 min on each car platform and done some research on the platforms to see where they are really at.

I have a modded Supra in real life that I track, and it handles awesome compared to anything under $500K and the GT5 rendition of the physics of that particular car is garbage to apples in comparison of real life. The braking is horrible in the game compared to my car, the turn in is crap, the roadholding ability under power is crap, the powerband itself is not realistic, no cockpit view, tires are not widenable to realistic standards... Forza has a Supra, you can widen the tires, paint it any color you want, put on racing stickers and vinyl, mod it over 900HP, you can put rims on it, and it has cockpit view!!! Honestly I expected more, a lot more from this franchise and it let me down. Gran Turismo 2 could even do most of those things! Even compared to other standard cars the modeling/graphics were disappointing on this car too, the front end looked cartoon like, the body panel gaps looked like they were pulled off of Gran Turismo 2, the back was not proportional, the roof line was too high and the molding around the windows looked like you drew it on with crayon.

My other car SC400, similar story. Car too narrow, lights not proportional or spaced correctly, window glass wrong size(too big), angle for windshield wrong, taillights wrong, ect ect. Many others too. MR2 Turbo, WRX, EVO, GS300... How is it I can have a 971hp Mercedes Benz SL65 and my Supra is 725? How does that work? Really?!? Corvette ZR1 and Viper ACR both more power too? Since when did this happen? Where have you been?

I like GT5, some of the cars were amazing like the MP4-12C and 458 Italia, although I was expecting a few cars that were not in the game: Please put them in Release 6.

Bentley GT Super Sport
Bentley Flying Spur Speed
Aston Martin One 77
Aston Martin V12 Vantage
Aston Martin DBS
Aston Martin Rapide
Aston Martin Zagato
Porsche 997 GT2RS
Porsche 997 GT3RS 4.0
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S- with dirt tires for rally
Porsche Panamera Turbo S
Porsche 911 Turbo S
Porsche 918Spyder

Forza managed to get most of those in there...

My last rant is the tracks. I expect with each release- especially being a "driving sim" focused only on tracks, to have more real tracks. Honestly I was hoping you could get most of F1 tracks on there releasing more with each release KEEPING the ones from the last release. You got one or two now but I am disappointed each release with no new slew of F1 tracks to rip up. This can be easily remedied by basing off of other sim tracks like IRACING and such where you can get the whole track downloaded after a purchase of it. Buy the rights to use it from them and mod it to your level. Do something. Outsource it to another company. It is not acceptable not to include them. We buy these games a lot of the time to enjoy driving yes, but some to experiment with setups and learn real tracks with hopes to drive a tuned car close to the one we tuned on that same circuit one day. The more real tracks the better IMO. OK done ranting for now...

my $2.02

Furinkazen · Sep 16, 2011

Benjamin S
I am a big fan of Gran Turismo, as I have owned all of the releases from 1 to 5. I have quite a few gripes about the last release 5 but this gripe/rant is very disappointing and no one has brought light to it anywhere as far as I know. It's like the developer has forgotten why we like the series. I have noticed a trend that is disconcerting, and I am let down that they keep doing this- so if Sony is reading this- PLEASE STOP doing this from one release to another...

The realistic trend is diminishing as far as I have noticed that the ability to mod cars is diminishing with every edition. This is particular trend is very disappointing, especially when you have set up a car with settings, power and aero a certain way and you know what times you can run on a certain track. You know what cars you can beat. Then you buy the next release with shiny new graphics and physics but it has no ability to, at the least, match where you left off, but actually lose the ability to make the same car match the last release and match and beat your times. The feel of the older cars is getting worse and unrealistic too.

For example, Toyota Supra 93-98 max hp figures:
GT1: don't remember
GT2: 1071hp
GT3:900ish hp
GT4:850hp
GT5:725hp

In real life, the opposite is happening with the Toyota Supra 93-98-
1997- 500hp
1999-1000hp
2005- 1500hp
2011- 2000hp

I had to wait to level 27 to even buy this car when I was looking for it after every race from the start. Why? Things like this really dampen my opinion of the game where one of my all time favorite cars keeps getting demoted in rank, hard to find, crappy physics and modeling, when in the real world the car is still one of the top cars in the world. A Supra set the world record for the standing mile and quarter and time attack in 2008-2011. It's like the "premium car" manufacturers are forcing you to demote some of the older faster cars to keep the premium cars from getting smoked and not played with. You call it a sim but it has no simulation of the development of the cars in real life. Its not hard to find the best tuned most powerful cars in any make in the real world, you just go to that particular car's forum; they usually have them posted somewhere with dyno sheets. All the time they took with GT5 they could have spent 5 min on each car platform and done some research on the platforms to see where they are really at.

I have a modded Supra in real life that I track, and it handles awesome compared to anything under $500K and the GT5 rendition of the physics of that particular car is garbage to apples in comparison of real life. The braking is horrible in the game compared to my car, the turn in is crap, the roadholding ability under power is crap, the powerband itself is not realistic, no cockpit view, tires are not widenable to realistic standards... Forza has a Supra, you can widen the tires, paint it any color you want, put on racing stickers and vinyl, mod it over 900HP, you can put rims on it, and it has cockpit view!!! Honestly I expected more, a lot more from this franchise and it let me down. Gran Turismo 2 could even do most of those things! Even compared to other standard cars the modeling/graphics were disappointing on this car too, the front end looked cartoon like, the body panel gaps looked like they were pulled off of Gran Turismo 2, the back was not proportional, the roof line was too high and the molding around the windows looked like you drew it on with crayon.

My other car SC400, similar story. Car too narrow, lights not proportional or spaced correctly, window glass wrong size(too big), angle for windshield wrong, taillights wrong, ect ect. Many others too. MR2 Turbo, WRX, EVO, GS300... How is it I can have a 971hp Mercedes Benz SL65 and my Supra is 725? How does that work? Really?!? Corvette ZR1 and Viper ACR both more power too? Since when did this happen? Where have you been?

I like GT5, some of the cars were amazing like the MP4-12C and 458 Italia, although I was expecting a few cars that were not in the game: Please put them in Release 6.

Bentley GT Super Sport
Bentley Flying Spur Speed
Aston Martin One 77
Aston Martin V12 Vantage
Aston Martin DBS
Aston Martin Rapide
Aston Martin Zagato
Porsche 997 GT2RS
Porsche 997 GT3RS 4.0
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S- with dirt tires for rally
Porsche Panamera Turbo S
Porsche 911 Turbo S
Porsche 918Spyder

Forza managed to get most of those in there...

My last rant is the tracks. I expect with each release- especially being a "driving sim" focused only on tracks, to have more real tracks. Honestly I was hoping you could get most of F1 tracks on there releasing more with each release KEEPING the ones from the last release. You got one or two now but I am disappointed each release with no new slew of F1 tracks to rip up. This can be easily remedied by basing off of other sim tracks like IRACING and such where you can get the whole track downloaded after a purchase of it. Buy the rights to use it from them and mod it to your level. Do something. Outsource it to another company. It is not acceptable not to include them. We buy these games a lot of the time to enjoy driving yes, but some to experiment with setups and learn real tracks with hopes to drive a tuned car close to the one we tuned on that same circuit one day. The more real tracks the better IMO. OK done ranting for now...

my $2.02

Porsche are not in GT or Forza. EA has the license. And yes they nerfed tuning, kinda like the tuner cars have a stage 4 upgrade.

Benjamin S · Sep 16, 2011

Porsche is in forza, I was playing it a month ago, I bought a Cayenne Turbo S and had it up to 880hp. I also had a Carrera GT at 800+. They also had a GT3RS although I never got the chance to buy it

28GT5492 · Sep 16, 2011

Benjamin S
I am a big fan of Gran Turismo, as I have owned all of the releases from 1 to 5. I have quite a few gripes about the last release 5 but this gripe/rant is very disappointing and no one has brought light to it anywhere as far as I know. It's like the developer has forgotten why we like the series. I have noticed a trend that is disconcerting, and I am let down that they keep doing this- so if Sony is reading this- PLEASE STOP doing this from one release to another...

The realistic trend is diminishing as far as I have noticed that the ability to mod cars is diminishing with every edition. This is particular trend is very disappointing, especially when you have set up a car with settings, power and aero a certain way and you know what times you can run on a certain track. You know what cars you can beat. Then you buy the next release with shiny new graphics and physics but it has no ability to, at the least, match where you left off, but actually lose the ability to make the same car match the last release and match and beat your times. The feel of the older cars is getting worse and unrealistic too.

For example, Toyota Supra 93-98 max hp figures:
GT1: don't remember
GT2: 1071hp
GT3:900ish hp
GT4:850hp
GT5:725hp

In real life, the opposite is happening with the Toyota Supra 93-98-
1997- 500hp
1999-1000hp
2005- 1500hp
2011- 2000hp

I had to wait to level 27 to even buy this car when I was looking for it after every race from the start. Why? Things like this really dampen my opinion of the game where one of my all time favorite cars keeps getting demoted in rank, hard to find, crappy physics and modeling, when in the real world the car is still one of the top cars in the world. A Supra set the world record for the standing mile and quarter and time attack in 2008-2011. It's like the "premium car" manufacturers are forcing you to demote some of the older faster cars to keep the premium cars from getting smoked and not played with. You call it a sim but it has no simulation of the development of the cars in real life. Its not hard to find the best tuned most powerful cars in any make in the real world, you just go to that particular car's forum; they usually have them posted somewhere with dyno sheets. All the time they took with GT5 they could have spent 5 min on each car platform and done some research on the platforms to see where they are really at.

I have a modded Supra in real life that I track, and it handles awesome compared to anything under $500K and the GT5 rendition of the physics of that particular car is garbage to apples in comparison of real life. The braking is horrible in the game compared to my car, the turn in is crap, the roadholding ability under power is crap, the powerband itself is not realistic, no cockpit view, tires are not widenable to realistic standards... Forza has a Supra, you can widen the tires, paint it any color you want, put on racing stickers and vinyl, mod it over 900HP, you can put rims on it, and it has cockpit view!!! Honestly I expected more, a lot more from this franchise and it let me down. Gran Turismo 2 could even do most of those things! Even compared to other standard cars the modeling/graphics were disappointing on this car too, the front end looked cartoon like, the body panel gaps looked like they were pulled off of Gran Turismo 2, the back was not proportional, the roof line was too high and the molding around the windows looked like you drew it on with crayon.

My other car SC400, similar story. Car too narrow, lights not proportional or spaced correctly, window glass wrong size(too big), angle for windshield wrong, taillights wrong, ect ect. Many others too. MR2 Turbo, WRX, EVO, GS300... How is it I can have a 971hp Mercedes Benz SL65 and my Supra is 725? How does that work? Really?!? Corvette ZR1 and Viper ACR both more power too? Since when did this happen? Where have you been?

I like GT5, some of the cars were amazing like the MP4-12C and 458 Italia, although I was expecting a few cars that were not in the game: Please put them in Release 6.

Bentley GT Super Sport
Bentley Flying Spur Speed
Aston Martin One 77
Aston Martin V12 Vantage
Aston Martin DBS
Aston Martin Rapide
Aston Martin Zagato
Porsche 997 GT2RS
Porsche 997 GT3RS 4.0
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S- with dirt tires for rally
Porsche Panamera Turbo S
Porsche 911 Turbo S
Porsche 918Spyder

Forza managed to get most of those in there...

My last rant is the tracks. I expect with each release- especially being a "driving sim" focused only on tracks, to have more real tracks. Honestly I was hoping you could get most of F1 tracks on there releasing more with each release KEEPING the ones from the last release. You got one or two now but I am disappointed each release with no new slew of F1 tracks to rip up. This can be easily remedied by basing off of other sim tracks like IRACING and such where you can get the whole track downloaded after a purchase of it. Buy the rights to use it from them and mod it to your level. Do something. Outsource it to another company. It is not acceptable not to include them. We buy these games a lot of the time to enjoy driving yes, but some to experiment with setups and learn real tracks with hopes to drive a tuned car close to the one we tuned on that same circuit one day. The more real tracks the better IMO. OK done ranting for now...

my $2.02

#1. No Porsche in GT5. It's RUF(rip off of a Porsche)

#2. A supra with 2000HP is B$

Highlandor · Sep 16, 2011

There is an official GT5 rant thread somewhere (I know, I had my rant there a while back - made me feel so much better)..

I understand, you and 100,000+ others have been tearing their hair out over this game, but the comparisions to Forza and mentioning the 'P' brand of cars is like flogging a dead horse.

I totally understand your frustrations, I'm a Vdub fan, I can buy a twin turbo Audi TT & Golf Mk4 in GT5, but I can't 'charge the R32 in the game - but there's hundreds or maybe thousands of 'charged R32 in the real world.

Totally understand your reasons for ranting, but don't be surprised if the mods decide to maybe call this thread a day, as there's been so many rant threads and it mentions the 'P' cars..

Best medicine for rants - find some like minded guys who race fair and clean, start something with them or join a decent race series that puts a smile on your face and try and forget the 'real world', suddenly, the game starts (finally) to come to life...

Oh, that's if you can stay connected to the Polyphony's (ahem...cough cough) "online" service... (that was my rant)....

Best of luck amigo...

DEATHSARTHE · Sep 16, 2011

Often times people overlook the absurdity of 2,000hp or even half that much and how much redesign, planning, fabrication, reinforcements, man hours, and work it takes just to get that much HP out of a car and then down a drag strip -let alone a corner. Tens of thousands of dollars in custom fabrication, special racing fuel, nitrous, gigantic radials and wheelie bars just aren't in Gran Turismo.

Any car in the game could have 2,000hp with the appropriate amount of tuning, which is far beyond the tuning GT offers. The intention isn't to make dragsters - its to simply make GT cars out of some of our favorite production cars.

The way any driving/racing game is set up, there are different classes of cars as to keep races competitive. PD put the Supra in the same class as the Camaro and Mustang Cobra R, which I agree is where it should be. 720hp is what my Supra has and functions perfectly with that. It isn't intended to have any more HP because then it would completely overpower its class but yet still have no place among Enzos, McLaren SLRs, and Paganis.

Benjamin S · Sep 16, 2011

DEATHSARTHE
Often times people overlook the absurdity of 2,000hp or even half that much and how much redesign, planning, fabrication, reinforcements, man hours, and work it takes just to get that much HP out of a car and then down a drag strip -let alone a corner. Tens of thousands of dollars in custom fabrication, special racing fuel, nitrous, gigantic radials and wheelie bars just aren't in Gran Turismo.

Any car in the game could have 2,000hp with the appropriate amount of tuning, which is far beyond the tuning GT offers. The intention isn't to make dragsters - its to simply make GT cars out of some of our favorite production cars.

The way any driving/racing game is set up, there are different classes of cars as to keep races competitive. PD put the Supra in the same class as the Camaro and Mustang Cobra R, which I agree is where it should be. 720hp is what my Supra has and functions perfectly with that. It isn't intended to have any more HP because then it would completely overpower its class but yet still have no place among Enzos, McLaren SLRs, and Paganis.

You missed my point completley.. My point was not to offer 2000hp Supras, it was that the mod level keeps diminishing from release to release, so I cannot keep the same level of performance from one release to another.

If I had 1071hp in one release and this release has 725hp, then the overall setup is too different to compare the same car with the same mod level. That being said, the real cars were doing the opposite of what happens in each release.

If I choose to mod it past to the level that class has, then that is my choice, and I accept the concequences. That is the point, I choose whether or not the car is balanced or not. In GT2, I had three different Supras with different setups in each. a 440hp small track, a 650hp big track one and the monster 1071hp one. That is the point of a racing sim like this; to build and choose what car and how far my setup goes.

With technology it is now possible to track these monster cars, like boost by gear and boost by speed, Racelogic Traction Control, and 2-step launch control I can taylor my Supra to handle corners and unleash 1000hp on the straights when I can use it. I should be able to imitate that in the game if I choose.

If the game focus is modding and tuning cars for racing realistically then it should allow me to do just that according to real life tuning and modding...

chuyler1 · Sep 16, 2011

As mentioned above, stop wallowing over specs and car looks and start driving.

Race online with other GTP members and you'll start spending more time practicing your driving line and tweaking your suspension and power options to get the most out of each car...and less time writing posts that criticize moot points about the game.

Braking, turn-in, road handling, can usually be resolved with tuning. Tire sizes cannot be altered, but the various grades of tire pretty much cover that. Think outside the box (ie don't expect real world tuning tactics to be your only option) and study some of the posts in the tuning section to figure out how to get the car to handle like you want. Also keep in mind that you probably brake a lot later and drive a lot faster in the game than you do IRL.

Benjamin S
With technology it is now possible to track these monster cars, like boost by gear and boost by speed, Racelogic Traction Control, and 2-step launch control I can taylor my Supra to handle corners and unleash 1000hp on the straights when I can use it. I should be able to imitate that in the game if I choose.

What you are describing, is not a Supra, but a super car in the shell of a Supra. Just drive a GT-R and pretend when you are behind the wheel that it is a supra.

Scaff · Sep 16, 2011

Benjamin S
Porsche is in forza, I was playing it a month ago, I bought a Cayenne Turbo S and had it up to 880hp. I also had a Carrera GT at 800+. They also had a GT3RS although I never got the chance to buy it

You will not be able to in FM4, as they no longer have the Porsche licence for Forza.

28GT5492
#1. No Porsche in GT5. It's RUF(rip off of a Porsche)

#2. A supra with 2000HP is B$

Point 1. Ruf is not a Porsche rip-off, they are a manufacturer in their own right, and that's a conversation for another thread (a number of which already exist).

Point 2. Don't try and get around the swear filter again, the AUP exists for a reason and ignoring it is not a wise move. Either refrain from swearing or use the 🤬 smilie.

Scaff

Exorcet · Sep 16, 2011

DEATHSARTHE
Tens of thousands of dollars in custom fabrication, special racing fuel, nitrous, gigantic radials and wheelie bars just aren't in Gran Turismo.

Race Mod

The way any driving/racing game is set up, there are different classes of cars as to keep races competitive. PD put the Supra in the same class as the Camaro and Mustang Cobra R, which I agree is where it should be. 720hp is what my Supra has and functions perfectly with that. It isn't intended to have any more HP because then it would completely overpower its class but yet still have no place among Enzos, McLaren SLRs, and Paganis.

What classes? The point of tuning is be able to get a car from one class to another. It wouldn't matter if the Supra could get 2000 hp and other cars couldn't, if you're going to be competitive you need performance restrictions anyway. The issue would take care of itself.

Scaff · Sep 16, 2011

Benjamin S
I have a modded Supra in real life that I track, and it handles awesome compared to anything under $500K and the GT5 rendition of the physics of that particular car is garbage to apples in comparison of real life.

Benjamin S
With technology it is now possible to track these monster cars, like boost by gear and boost by speed, Racelogic Traction Control, and 2-step launch control I can taylor my Supra to handle corners and unleash 1000hp on the straights when I can use it. I should be able to imitate that in the game if I choose.

Please do not take this the wrong way, but we have a standard policy here at GT Planet that anyone claiming to own a car considered 'unusual' will be asked to provide proof of ownership.

We even have a thread dedicated to it......

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61433&page=85

....in which it would be greatly appreciated you provide proof.

As I said this is not me stating you don't own the car, simply asking you to show us that you do. We are very wary of these kind of claims, as the thread in question and the fact we had someone claiming to own a modified R34 this week that turned out to be less than true.

If you own it, then kudos and we would love to see it, if you don't then coming clean now is the wise thing to do.

I look forward to hearing from you in the linked thread.

Regards

Scaff

MrFish · Sep 16, 2011

Benjamin S
I should be able to imitate that in the game if I choose.

I appreciate what you are saying, but I think you need to lower your expectations of what the game can give you. Sure, the tagline is "the real racing simulator", but it doesn't pretend to be the last word in racing simulators. With current technology, it is simply not possible to simulate every possible tuning variation of every car, with any real accuracy. PD would like to, I'm sure, but their ambition outstretches their reach.

Accept GT for what it is, and there's a lot of enjoyment to be found. But I sense you're expecting more than the game (let's just remember that) can realistically deliver.

iamjajo · Sep 16, 2011

OP I'm glad you like and are satisfied with Forza. I like GT5.

Flaws and all; to me it's the best driving game for the PS3.

Scaff · Sep 16, 2011

Benjamin S - I have moved you post to the correct thread, simply follow the link above.

Scaff

Benjamin S · Sep 16, 2011

MrFish
I appreciate what you are saying, but I think you need to lower your expectations of what the game can give you. Sure, the tagline is "the real racing simulator", but it doesn't pretend to be the last word in racing simulators. With current technology, it is simply not possible to simulate every possible tuning variation of every car, with any real accuracy. PD would like to, I'm sure, but their ambition outstretches their reach.

Accept GT for what it is, and there's a lot of enjoyment to be found. But I sense you're expecting more than the game (let's just remember that) can realistically deliver.

Why would I lower my expectations? It doesn't have to be the last word, just what it has already done it needs to maintain. When Gran Turismo 2 gives me 80% of this?!!!! Forza gives me 90% of it! You shouldn't go backwards in terms of what you bring to the table, especially on the core features of your platform.

It's like this: You have a car. This car keeps getting better with every release of it. But over the years the Manufacturer adds so many bells and whistles to the car, that the core reason why people bought that car gets lost and no longer is a part of the car anymore. Now the car is only bells and whistles and no longer has the core original qualities that I liked it in the first place for.

That is like GT5. It's new, looks slick, feels slick but it lost some of the core reasons I liked it in the first place. To MOD CARS and RACE THEM on real tracks.

It is entirely possible to emulate the real cars performance on every car- how else do you think they got it to where it is now? By imagining it? They got it by driving all of those cars and getting it right. Like I have stated before, it only takes 5-10 mins to find a dyno sheet on the internet for a particular model and base that car models tuning level off of that... they could even post on evey car forum to submit a dyno sheet and pic of your car of the most powerful setups and go from there. Whatever car forum you are on, they will know who has the best setups and submit it to show their best example of their favorite car.

MrFish · Sep 16, 2011

Benjamin S
Why would I lower my expectations? Especially when Gran Turismo 2 gives me 80% of that?!!!!

Ok, so what are you saying? That GT2 on the original Playstation was a better game, no, simulator than GT5? And that your Supra was more realistically represented in a game released 11 years ago? Riiight....

It is entirely possible to emulate the real cars performance on every car-

I don't dispute that, but you are wrong to think that the GT5 engine is capable of producing real-life simulations. No amount of clever programming is going to overcome the technical limitations of a games console and turn it into anything truly comparable to real-life.

how else do you think they got it to where it is now? By imagining it?

Absolutely. It's their interpretation, expressed through their game.

I understand that you feel that GT5 doesn't quite live up to your expectations, and that's fine; I feel the same way myself. And you feel that your love of tuned Supra's isn't represented as well as you seem to it remember it was previously... well, Ok, but given the choice, I'd still rather be playing GT5 than GT2 to be honest.

jaycee_xr3 · Sep 16, 2011

GT5 is for me a source of entertainment, fun and relax ... ¿Why sad people keep playing GT5?
Please, give your GT5 copy to some "kid" (may be a grown-up kid like me) that can still enjoy it, "mr. pro"

Never forget: it's a game, it's about joy and fun. If you don't enjoy it, the it's not for you.

DLR · Sep 17, 2011

Benjamin S
I am a big fan of Gran Turismo, as I have owned all of the releases from 1 to 5. I have quite a few gripes about the last release 5 but this gripe/rant is very disappointing and no one has brought light to it anywhere as far as I know. It's like the developer has forgotten why we like the series. I have noticed a trend that is disconcerting, and I am let down that they keep doing this- so if Sony is reading this- PLEASE STOP doing this from one release to another...

The realistic trend is diminishing as far as I have noticed that the ability to mod cars is diminishing with every edition. This is particular trend is very disappointing, especially when you have set up a car with settings, power and aero a certain way and you know what times you can run on a certain track. You know what cars you can beat. Then you buy the next release with shiny new graphics and physics but it has no ability to, at the least, match where you left off, but actually lose the ability to make the same car match the last release and match and beat your times. The feel of the older cars is getting worse and unrealistic too.

For example, Toyota Supra 93-98 max hp figures:
GT1: don't remember
GT2: 1071hp
GT3:900ish hp
GT4:850hp
GT5:725hp

In real life, the opposite is happening with the Toyota Supra 93-98-
1997- 500hp
1999-1000hp
2005- 1500hp
2011- 2000hp

I had to wait to level 27 to even buy this car when I was looking for it after every race from the start. Why? Things like this really dampen my opinion of the game where one of my all time favorite cars keeps getting demoted in rank, hard to find, crappy physics and modeling, when in the real world the car is still one of the top cars in the world. A Supra set the world record for the standing mile and quarter and time attack in 2008-2011. It's like the "premium car" manufacturers are forcing you to demote some of the older faster cars to keep the premium cars from getting smoked and not played with. You call it a sim but it has no simulation of the development of the cars in real life. Its not hard to find the best tuned most powerful cars in any make in the real world, you just go to that particular car's forum; they usually have them posted somewhere with dyno sheets. All the time they took with GT5 they could have spent 5 min on each car platform and done some research on the platforms to see where they are really at.

I have a modded Supra in real life that I track, and it handles awesome compared to anything under $500K and the GT5 rendition of the physics of that particular car is garbage to apples in comparison of real life. The braking is horrible in the game compared to my car, the turn in is crap, the roadholding ability under power is crap, the powerband itself is not realistic, no cockpit view, tires are not widenable to realistic standards... Forza has a Supra, you can widen the tires, paint it any color you want, put on racing stickers and vinyl, mod it over 900HP, you can put rims on it, and it has cockpit view!!! Honestly I expected more, a lot more from this franchise and it let me down. Gran Turismo 2 could even do most of those things! Even compared to other standard cars the modeling/graphics were disappointing on this car too, the front end looked cartoon like, the body panel gaps looked like they were pulled off of Gran Turismo 2, the back was not proportional, the roof line was too high and the molding around the windows looked like you drew it on with crayon.

My other car SC400, similar story. Car too narrow, lights not proportional or spaced correctly, window glass wrong size(too big), angle for windshield wrong, taillights wrong, ect ect. Many others too. MR2 Turbo, WRX, EVO, GS300... How is it I can have a 971hp Mercedes Benz SL65 and my Supra is 725? How does that work? Really?!? Corvette ZR1 and Viper ACR both more power too? Since when did this happen? Where have you been?

I like GT5, some of the cars were amazing like the MP4-12C and 458 Italia, although I was expecting a few cars that were not in the game: Please put them in Release 6.

Bentley GT Super Sport
Bentley Flying Spur Speed
Aston Martin One 77
Aston Martin V12 Vantage
Aston Martin DBS
Aston Martin Rapide
Aston Martin Zagato
Porsche 997 GT2RS
Porsche 997 GT3RS 4.0
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S- with dirt tires for rally
Porsche Panamera Turbo S
Porsche 911 Turbo S
Porsche 918Spyder

Forza managed to get most of those in there...

My last rant is the tracks. I expect with each release- especially being a "driving sim" focused only on tracks, to have more real tracks. Honestly I was hoping you could get most of F1 tracks on there releasing more with each release KEEPING the ones from the last release. You got one or two now but I am disappointed each release with no new slew of F1 tracks to rip up. This can be easily remedied by basing off of other sim tracks like IRACING and such where you can get the whole track downloaded after a purchase of it. Buy the rights to use it from them and mod it to your level. Do something. Outsource it to another company. It is not acceptable not to include them. We buy these games a lot of the time to enjoy driving yes, but some to experiment with setups and learn real tracks with hopes to drive a tuned car close to the one we tuned on that same circuit one day. The more real tracks the better IMO. OK done ranting for now...

my $2.02

1. What in the name of all that's holy would PD be thinking if they included a 2000+HP Supra in a game under the category "Simulation".

2. EA owns Porsche licenses. If you want them in GT series, go harass EA.

3. I would much rather have more Italian supercars or American Muscle cars than more Astons. They're fat, heavy, lack character and pretty much all the same.

Benjamin S · Sep 17, 2011

MrFish
Ok, so what are you saying? That GT2 on the original Playstation was a better game, no, simulator than GT5? And that your Supra was more realistically represented in a game released 11 years ago? Riiight....

I don't dispute that, but you are wrong to think that the GT5 engine is capable of producing real-life simulations. No amount of clever programming is going to overcome the technical limitations of a games console and turn it into anything truly comparable to real-life.

Absolutely. It's their interpretation, expressed through their game.

I understand that you feel that GT5 doesn't quite live up to your expectations, and that's fine; I feel the same way myself. And you feel that your love of tuned Supra's isn't represented as well as you seem to it remember it was previously... well, Ok, but given the choice, I'd still rather be playing GT5 than GT2 to be honest.

Its like Im speaking egyptian, I enjoy the game plenty- as I'm playing it right now. I am saying, "The ground it has already taken it needs to maintain" what is so hard to understand about that? It needs to keep the ground the previous releases have already taken. Otherwise the new bells and whistles will not mean as much.

Yes GT2 has more functionality of MODDING than GT5 does, especially with the standard cars like the Supra. Why couldn't they at least carry over those features from those previous iterations? Obviously its not that hard since they did that 11 years ago with archaic tecnology and fit it all on a CD.

So what are you talking about "the technical limitations of a console" when PS1 and a CD did what I was asking the PS3 and a Blue Ray Disc to do?

Does any of this make sense?

DLR · Sep 17, 2011

Benjamin S
So what are you talking about "the technical limitations of a console" when PS1 and a CD did what I was asking the PS3 and a Blue Ray Disc to do?

Does any of this make sense?

GT1: One car = Roughly 300 Polygons

GT5: One car = 500,000+ Polygons

Does THIS make any sense?

shirakawaa · Sep 17, 2011

Before enabling tuning to ridiculous hp/liter levels, PD should first include realistic modeling of the effects of performance parts on engine drivability and torque/power curves (something they somehow managed to program in GT1 and GT2), then realistic mechanical damage due to wear, tear and engine abuse. Only then, you would understand that for circuit driving the power levels you're seeking are useless, and to some extent unrealistic too.

MrFish · Sep 17, 2011

I understand you perfectly. I haven't got a GT2 cd or Playstation handy, so I guess I'll have to take your word for it then that they got it all right 11 years ago.

So what are you talking about "the technical limitations of a console" when PS1 and a CD did what I was asking the PS3 and a Blue Ray Disc to do?

Does any of this make sense?

Yes. You're bemoaning the fact that you used to be able to tune a Supra to over 1000hp, but you can't do that in the current version of the game. My point was in reference to your real-life experience of tuning and driving a Supra, and comparing it to a video game. As I said in my first reply, your expectations are too high if you thought it would be just like the real thing.

xSNAKEx · Sep 17, 2011

If the engine can be made to put out that much hp in real life then it should be able to in gt5. I agree with OP.

All those saying that much power would not be appropriate for racing, let the physics sort that argument out.

Doing anything else would be bias.

Tenacious D · Sep 17, 2011

I would also recommend that the OP make these requests in the "Update" and any other wishlist threads. I agree with both sides on this issue.

If it can be done in real life, it should be in Gran Turismo 5.
It should also have realistic performance and issues experienced with real life modifications. Making every car blow the rest of the field away in Forza by adding an AWD drivetrain is lame.
As GT5 stands now, this is what we have, so enjoy what you have. It's really pretty darn amazing, all things considered.

shirakawaa · Sep 17, 2011

xSNAKEx
If the engine can be made to put out that much hp in real life then it should be able to in gt5. I agree with OP.

All those saying that much power would not be appropriate for racing, let the physics sort that argument out.

I wouldn't have any problem with that if the game dealt with the consequences of such extreme tuning. However it already fails to do so for mildly tuned engines. Look at the "Tuner" cars, which are based on real world data. Most often they have peaky and narrow powerbands, quite unpractical for racing and even more so for normal driving, but realistic. Using "GT" parts on the normal cars instead you can instead have race-tuned engines that are as drivable as they are stock. This is without even touching the topic of mechanical damage and failures due to wear/tear/abuse or other details of engine and drivetrain dynamics.

To me, this is the major disappointment in tuning and modifications after 5 iterations of this game, not that engines can't reach 1000-1500-2000 hp. It's Its failure to innovate itself, and the lack of recovery so far on tuning dynamics after the stepback it suffered in GT3.

Mubble · Sep 17, 2011

Benjamin S
I have a modded Supra in real life that I track, and it handles awesome compared to anything under $500K.

I find that hard to believe. Unless you'd spent untold amounts of money undoing the chassis flaws of the original set up. The JZA80 (if that's the Supra you're refering to) is what, 15 years old now. Chassis technology has evolved massively since then. There's no way you can compare it to a Ferrari 458, 430 Scuderia, Nissan GTR, Porsche 911 GT3 etc. It won't be on the same page.

Supras have never been rated for their handling. It may feel 'awesome' to you, but give it to an expert who has driven all sorts of cars (an automotive journalist for example), then tell him to compare it with the best cars under $500k and I would bet my house on it that he wouldn't compliment the Supra's handling.

Ok, so I don't know what tuning you've done, but have you driven anything over $100k, let alone $500k?

To say "my Supra handles well", or "awesome" even, then fair enough. To compare it to half-million dollar supercars... then no. Sorry.

hypnotron · Sep 17, 2011

It might be too little too late.....But if anybody played NFS ProStreet, you could actually manipulate the aero kit/parts you added on your car...making your wing longer equaled more drag, changing the angle changed the downforce, so on and so on. I've always felt like the tuning in this game doesn't allow you to tune a car to it's full potential. Changing the setup on the ECU, tuning the turbo, changing the diameter of the tires, being able to choose the amount of lbs of boost for the supercharger, changing the angles of the wings. How difficult would it be for PD to add these features?

Tenacious D · Sep 17, 2011

SHIRAKAWA Akira
This is without even touching the topic of mechanical damage and failures due to wear/tear/abuse or other details of engine and drivetrain dynamics.

Frankly, I'm unaware of very many games even covering what Gran Turismo does, in that your car suffers degradation over time which must eventually be refreshed. In all my other games, leaving a race after I kill my car magically restores it to like-new condition. At least that I recall. I haven't done a career in rFactor and can't see myself giving it a go.

Tornado · Sep 17, 2011

Porsche Unleashed had performance degradation of about a dozen different things, as an FYI.

MrFish
Ok, so what are you saying? That GT2 on the original Playstation was a better game, no, simulator than GT5? And that your Supra was more realistically represented in a game released 11 years ago? Riiight....

GT2's performance tuning was much, much, much more realistic than that of GT5. GT5's is better than GT3 and GT4, but the series faceplanted hard when GT3 came out so that doesn't mean much.

shirakawaa · Sep 17, 2011

Tenacious D
Frankly, I'm unaware of very many games even covering what Gran Turismo does, in that your car suffers degradation over time which must eventually be refreshed.

My point was that especially when performance tuning is one of the core features of the game (is it in those of yours?) and when it's possible to tune an engine to levels that would be almost impractical for circuit driving, the next step should be introducing mechanical damage and failures due to (mis)use. The concept of engine degradation introduced in GT4 is cool, but in the end still very limited, both in scope and realism. "Maxing out" a car brings no appreciable difference to engine durability, let alone reliability.

In all my other games, leaving a race after I kill my car magically restores it to like-new condition. At least that I recall. I haven't done a career in rFactor and can't see myself giving it a go.

Yes, but in GT5 you can't kill the engine or the transmission by abusing it (like it's possible to do, for example, in LFS. Clutch damage by the way would have solved the "powershifting" problem gracefully in GT5, but PD chose instead to nerf clutch control on wheel/pedal sets that have it), so whether such damage is retained or not after a race has not (yet, at least) much relevance in GT5.

Toronado
GT2's performance tuning was much, much, much more realistic than that of GT5. GT5's is better than GT3 and GT4, but the series faceplanted hard when GT3 came out so that doesn't mean much.

By the way, now that I remember, PD kind of partially reintroduced more realistic performance tuning in GT5 Prologue (through the quicktune function), in that the more powerful the engine got (by adjusting the slider), the more torque got shifted up to high rpm, losing bottom-end juice and in general becoming peakier. For some reason this effect disappeared in GT5 where the only way to significantly alter the engine drivability is by fitting forced induction kits on cars that allow them (but even on those, there aren't always significant differences. This often happens on standard cars).

GT Series Major Dissapoint in Tuning&Modifications Through Releases

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