Suspension Tuning Gains

  • Thread starter CSLACR
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CSLACR

CSLACR

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United States
United States
WrecklessAbandon
You read it right, I want to test exactly what cars will gain from changing "default" FC suspension settings to whatever settings you find best.

What You Need: Any car, on any track, with any level of modification you desire, must have FC suspension set to "default settings" for stock test.The only thing you cannot do is alter other settings after you have ran a "stock" test, unless you run the "stock" test again with the aforementioned changes still in place afterwards.

Please post all details on any car you test.
Driving aids, fuel/tire wear on/off, online or offline, HP, KG, All parts installed, what settings you have on any adjustable parts for the tests, default settings for suspension, and what you altered the suspension settings to in order to run a faster lap. Any otherwise unmodified cars may be listed as "stock" without a need for power/weight figures.

Any and all driving aids will be allowed in the interest of equal testing, and testing with various options in the game, since different people play different ways, all have a place here. They will be linked and listed/sorted by driving aids and options.

All tests must be done in a "solo mode". Whether offline practice, arcade practice, or online lounge/lobby free run by yourself.

I think that's it, I'll grab the first post for results, this is completely open ended, and the only criteria you need to meet to join is the AUP and the specs listed above.

Anyone feel free to let me know if I missed something or you have an "additional" idea that can coincide with this. :cheers:
 
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this seems akin to a gov't study into if smoking kills. we know the outcome.

how much faster will be interesting to see however.

i'd participate but i dont share my tunes.
 
esoxhntr
this seems akin to a gov't study into if smoking kills. we know the outcome.

how much faster will be interesting to see however.

i'd participate but i dont share my tunes.
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Well I'm not sure what secrets you could really hold in such an open world, but it's needed for exact changes to be verifiable, so anyone and everyone that wishes can double-check anyone's results to see how it works for them.

At this point I don't know that the integrity of the testing can remain in tact without sharing the changes that improved the time, sorry.
 
How about the Driving Option settings , tyres , grip settings and if Online , the Tyre/Fuel depletion setting ?


raVer
 
-raVer-
How about the Driving Option settings , tyres , grip settings and if Online , the Tyre/Fuel depletion setting ?


raVer
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Good question, I'll edit the OP in a second.👍

Any options can be used, I really don't care if someone uses SRF, as long as they use it for both the "stock" test and the "tuned" test.
Any aid or options settings must also be posted with the results of a test though.
 
I tested with 2 cars: DB9 and Integra R. Both bought from new can garage. Both fitted with FC suspension and racing hard tires only. No other mods were done.

Testing was done off line in practice mode, all aids off at Suzuka.

DB9 was 1.4 seconds faster with tuned suspension, the Integra was 0.6 seconds faster. I should have used a Civic instead of an Integra, an Integra has sporty suspension and after installing FC suspension, the spring rates are pretty decent.

The lap times of the cars on default settings really surprised me, I guess low camber works well at that track. I did notice it was no worse through high speed sections.

I also did laps with standard settings before and after the laps with tuned settings. If I didn't do this, the early laps would have been worse from lack of practice. I actually switched a fair bit between settings and now the results are fair and unbiased. If the laps weren't driven consistently there could be 1 second difference from a lap driven well to one driven badly on this circuit.
 
When i get around to tuning my FGT for the IRL league that Tom McD is working on i will post some results up
 
MrGrado
I tested with 2 cars: DB9 and Integra R. Both bought from new can garage. Both fitted with FC suspension and racing hard tires only. No other mods were done.

Testing was done off line in practice mode, all aids off at Suzuka.

DB9 was 1.4 seconds faster with tuned suspension, the Integra was 0.6 seconds faster. I should have used a Civic instead of an Integra, an Integra has sporty suspension and after installing FC suspension, the spring rates are pretty decent.

The lap times of the cars on default settings really surprised me, I guess low camber works well at that track. I did notice it was no worse through high speed sections.

I also did laps with standard settings before and after the laps with tuned settings. If I didn't do this, the early laps would have been worse from lack of practice. I actually switched a fair bit between settings and now the results are fair and unbiased. If the laps weren't driven consistently there could be 1 second difference from a lap driven well to one driven badly on this circuit.
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I agree, and it sounds like you know exactly how to do this properly.👍

If it's not to much to ask, can you edit this post with the "before and after" lap times and the track driven?
It will greatly help with the integrity of the tests having all the lap times and courses for each test.👍

After that I'll be ready to link this up as the first test in the OP, feel free to test as many cars as you like. :cheers:
 
It's crazy late here now. I might do some more with this later after some sleep. I don't have the exact lap times of the slower laps recorded anywhere but I have the fastest laps on ghost replays.
 
MrGrado
It's crazy late here now. I might do some more with this later after some sleep. I don't have the exact lap times of the slower laps recorded anywhere but I have the fastest laps on ghost replays.
Click to expand...

Fastest lap time for each car with each setup is all I need.👍
Don't worry about tonight, this is currently open-ended, edit it in when you have time and I'll link it then, no worries.
 
Online fuel/tire wear on, no aids, ABS 1

Formula GT
650bhp
725KG
Comfort Medium

stock: 1:23.236 But very inconsistent avg 1:.25's
Tuned: 1:21.905 much more consistent, avg 1:22.3
Difference: 1.331 seconds
 
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MemorableC
Online fuel/tire wear on, no aids, ABS 1

Formula GT
650bhp
725KG

stock: 1:23.236 But very inconsistent avg 1:.25's
Tuned: 1:21.905 much more consistent, avg 1:22.3
Difference: 1.331 seconds
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Went ahead and added both you and MrGrado to the list(s).

If you would edit into your post what tires you used, (so it's all in the same place) I would appreciate it.
Not to be a stickler, but someone might want to know in the future, it's just easier to have all the info in hand from the start.👍
 
I took a tune JG did for a Subaru legacy round deep forest.
16 laps first 8 with flat FC suspension second 8 with JG's FC suspension tune added.

the cars setup is as follows:

GfxJG
Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT SpecB '03
~400 BHP - ~480 Nm - 1400 KG - ~506 PP

​

GT Auto
Oil Change
Rear Wing
Optional Aero Parts

Tuning Shop
Weight Reduction Stage 1
Rigidity Improvement
Engine Tuning Stage 3
Sports ECU
Sports Intake Manifold
Racing Air Filter
Sports Exhaust
Sports Exhaust Manifold
Catalytic Converter: Sports
Fully Customisable Transmission
Twin Plate Clutch
Semi Racing Flywheel
Carbon Propeller Shaft
Fully Customisable LSD
Fully Customisable Suspension Kit

-------------------

Ballast
Ballast Amount: 66 KG
Ballast Position: 50

Aerodynamics
0/20

Power Limiter
96.1%

Transmission
1st Gear: 2.731
2nd Gear: 1.979
3rd Gear: 1.512
4th Gear: 1.201
5th Gear: 0.991
6th Gear: 0.835

Final Gear: 4.444
Max Speed: 280 KPH

LSD
Initial Torque: 10/10
Acceleration Sensitivity: 40/40
Braking Sensitivity: 20/20

Torque: 35/65

Suspension
Ride Height: -30/-30
Spring Rate: 6.3/9.8
Dampers (Extension): 6/6
Dampers (Compression): 5/5
Anti-Roll Bars: 3/3

Camber Angle: 2.5/2.0
Toe Angle: 0.00/-0.10

Brakes
Brake Balance: 5/6
Click to expand...


Driving Aids
Tuned with everything off except ABS at 1.


Info
Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT SpecB '03
400 BHP
1400 KG
Sports hard tyres
Offline
Tyre ware off
Fuel consumption off
DS3 controller


Results
Deep Forest Raceway
1:27.635 no suspension set up.
1:26.506 with suspension set up.

1.129 difference
 
Jeez, thanks for plagiarizing me while I was banned. At least no time was wasted!

My suspicions so far are confirmed. Very small gains. Not enough to matter in a race...

I'll keep checking my stolen thread, though. When I find something significant, I'll be sure to post all the data for y'all.
 
BradKinder
Jeez, thanks for plagiarizing me while I was banned. At least no time was wasted!

My suspicions so far are confirmed. Very small gains. Not enough to matter in a race...

I'll keep checking my stolen thread, though. When I find something significant, I'll be sure to post all the data for y'all.
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Yea, very small gains. Like 1.13 seconds. Want to know what a small gain is? 0.003 seconds should be small enough to demonstrate my point. And 'not enough to matter in a race'? How about you try setting off after someone in an online race 1 second after them and look at how big the gap is?

Anyway, ignoring his (I thought unplanned) return, I'll post some numbers as well on that custom track. I know it about enough to notice the time differences.
 
Onboy123
Yea, very small gains. Like 1.13 seconds. Want to know what a small gain is? 0.003 seconds should be small enough to demonstrate my point. And 'not enough to matter in a race'? How about you try setting off after someone in an online race 1 second after them and look at how big the gap is?

Anyway, ignoring his (I thought unplanned) return, I'll post some numbers as well on that custom track. I know it about enough to notice the time differences.
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Aerodynamics makes up for a 1 second difference in qualifying time. By far. Please stop arguing with common sense.

CSL, you get some good times at the trials. Good for you. That's hard work. Please understand that in real races, like I like to do several times a week... A one second difference in qualifying means absolutely nothing. This guy is wrong, and a newbie.

A time difference large enough to defeat the aerodynamic drafting advantage is something worth talking about. One point something seconds out of a 87 second lap is only 98% of the default FC suspension lap time. I suspect that you'll need much better 95% to defeat the aerodynamic drafting advantage.
 
Do you really think drafting is that large of a role anywhere outside of the ovals?

Hint: It isn't.

If I can shave a full second off my lap times just by retuning the suspension (there are some cases where the margin is much larger), why wouldn't I? Then, let's take something else into consideration.

Race at Trial Mountain. Guy with properly tuned car sets pole in qualifying, you're 2nd.

He pulls away to the tune of .2s through the first sector and another .2 between T1 and the back straight. Do you think your drafting advantage will allow you to catch and pass him before you run out of track? You might come close this lap. The next, he'll have a cool second over you going through the same area. Now, he gets to simply walk away with absolutely no fuss.

Mind you this is completely ignoring the fact that a proper suspension setup will not only decrease lap times but also increase consistency in almost all cases. Heck, there may be some cases where you don't gain much in terms of absolute best lap times but go from having laps within 2 seconds of each other to having laps within half a second of each other.

All else being equal, the car that is making the best use of its tires will win. Follow that up with making better use of what power is available and the guy who's simply thrown parts at the car has just lost. Badly.
 
Rotary Junkie
Mind you this is completely ignoring the fact that a proper suspension setup will not only decrease lap times but also increase consistency in almost all cases. Heck, there may be some cases where you don't gain much in terms of absolute best lap times but go from having laps within 2 seconds of each other to having laps within half a second of each other.
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this is what i found out when tuning the fgt, my times jumped around from 23.xxx's to 27.xxx, once tuned i was running within a 3rd of a second for each lap.

you will also see the biggest improvements in cars that are hard to drive like the pug 908 and the RUF yellowbird
 
BradKinder
Aerodynamics makes up for a 1 second difference in qualifying time. By far. Please stop arguing with common sense.

CSL, you get some good times at the trials. Good for you. That's hard work. Please understand that in real races, like I like to do several times a week... A one second difference in qualifying means absolutely nothing. This guy is wrong, and a newbie.

A time difference large enough to defeat the aerodynamic drafting advantage is something worth talking about. One point something seconds out of a 87 second lap is only 98% of the default FC suspension lap time. I suspect that you'll need much better 95% to defeat the aerodynamic drafting advantage.
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One second difference is the difference between 1st and 2nd in a time trial. And the drafting only comes into play when you're 0.5 or less seconds away from the car ahead. And 'this newbie' has been testing and comparing the differences between tuned cars and stock cars since day one. And when you've been at something for over 1000 times, each time getting a positive acknowledgment that the times are possible and within the tunes reach, I think I know full well the difference and that the one wrong here is you.

Test done at the Top Gear Test Track, online run:
Car: Honda NSX Type R '02 (450hp, 1051kg)
Tyres: Sport Soft
---------
Tyre Wear: On
All aids off, ABS 1
---------
Pre-suspension tune (Minute/Seconds/Milliseconds) - 1:18.436 (To be confirmed)
Post-suspension tune (Minute/Seconds/Milliseconds) - 1:16.133 (Confirmed through saved replay)
---------
Time split (Minute/Seconds/Milliseconds) - 2.303

Proof enough? Now shut your trap, you have no place here. Not with that attitude. And here's something for ya. Get on a track, and test it yourself.
 
Something else to keep in mind when talking about a time gap between two cars is the actual physical gap this represents. This is a factor of speed so the faster cars are traveling the greater the difference in distance between the two vehicles. 1 second at 60 mph may be almost negligible while that same 1 second at 200mph will be a very significant amount of real estate. I'll leave it to some math wiz to demonstrate the actual math but using RJ's example above that 0.4 second difference when you hit the straight and could conceivably catch a draft may mean that the lead car is already half way down that straight and your going to lose your draft long before you can catch him as he enters the corner ahead. As for racing on ovals the regular NASCAR racers would kill for a setup that guaranteed a 1 second per lap advantage without eating tires.
 
XDesperado67
Something else to keep in mind when talking about a time gap between two cars is the actual physical gap this represents. This is a factor of speed so the faster cars are traveling the greater the difference in distance between the two vehicles. 1 second at 60 mph may be almost negligible while that same 1 second at 200mph will be a very significant amount of real estate. I'll leave it to some math wiz to demonstrate the actual math but using RJ's example above that 0.4 second difference when you hit the straight and could conceivably catch a draft may mean that the lead car is already half way down that straight and your going to lose your draft long before you can catch him as he enters the corner ahead. As for racing on ovals the regular NASCAR racers would kill for a setup that guaranteed a 1 second per lap advantage without eating tires.
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It's not math; it's arithmetic :) I had a Math major working for me and she pointed things like this out to me (regularly).

Anyway, your 60 MPH example with 1 sec difference is about 80 feet of track, or 7-8 car lengths. I think that's a significant distance in a race.

So, .4 sec advantage is something like 32 feet of track (@60MPH), or at circuit race speeds of 120MPH twice that - 60 or so feet which is more than 5 car lengths.

I race NASCAR online pretty often and you have to be well under 2 seconds behind someone to catch the draft (I think it's about 1.7 secs at 220MPH).

I always check my cars out at default before making any changes, otherwise I can make a car worse without knowing it. And, consistency and comfort in driving means a lot in longer races - a car that's always on the edge runs a higher risk of making a mistake that eliminates any lap time advantage.

I was helping someone with an RM Vette setup on Suzuka and found his tuned car lap times were much slower than my default setup lap times (I'm not a fast driver). Resetting his car and making minor setup changes provided a substantial reduction in lap times for his car. Each person's driving style is different and tuning needs to take this into account.
 
BradKinder
Jeez, thanks for plagiarizing me while I was banned. At least no time was wasted!

My suspicions so far are confirmed. Very small gains. Not enough to matter in a race...

I'll keep checking my stolen thread, though. When I find something significant, I'll be sure to post all the data for y'all.
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1second is not enough?
Hell, what do you think what a F1 team would pay for 1sec improvement?

Hint: Enough money for the rest of your life.
 
dr_slump
1second is not enough?
Hell, what do you think what a F1 team would pay for 1sec improvement?

Hint: Enough money for the rest of your life.
Click to expand...
Leave it, he's lost this fight the moment he disregarded that 1 second. 1 second may not be a lot in 24 hours, but it's something to die for on a go kart track. Get your perspective on time fixed first Brad, then come back and try and lecture us. Otherwise, you're only going to make more of a joke of yourself.
 
@60 mph, 1 sec=88 feet
@150 mph, 1 sec=220 feet

In my experience, the draft kicks in right around the 1 second gap. On shorter straights it won't affect you much, but on a longer straight, like say at Grand Valley, assuming your car is as fast in a straight line as the guy you're following, you can usually make up the entire gap if you are around 1 second behind on the straight to begin with. The closer you are the more dramatic the draft effect appears to be, but I'm not sure if it actually is more enhanced, or if being so close to the car in front just makes it appear so.

Also in my experience, a 1 second difference in qualifying usually means game over, assuming it's a true qualifying lap and not a quick lap due to time constraints where someone can go faster but made a slight error. Sometimes guys can keep up in the draft, but because they are usually slower through the corners, they find themselves lagging at corner exit, and catching at corner entry, but rarely with enough gusto to get by.

One bobble on their part, they fall back 1 second or so, lose the draft and it's bye bye. The person who is 1 second faster, is smoother, makes less mistakes and is more likely to run a perfect race. Done it hundreds of times online. A qualifying gap of 2 seconds or more and it's not even a contest.
 
Onboy123
Leave it, he's lost this fight the moment he disregarded that 1 second. 1 second may not be a lot in 24 hours, but it's something to die for on a go kart track. Get your perspective on time fixed first Brad, then come back and try and lecture us. Otherwise, you're only going to make more of a joke of yourself.
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Sorry for the double post, but when I was kart racing, a second might as well have been an hour...lol. You outqualified the field by a second and they might as well just hand you the trophy before the race even starts. In a field of 15 or more drivers, it's pretty much impossible to be that much faster. You can usually drop a blanket over the top 5 or 10 in most competitive events.

There is drafting in kart racing as well, even in 4 stroke karting where we were doing less than 50 mph.
 

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