Wallbanger's "Tons of Fun"(Final Round Underway)

Praiano, you've got Digitalbaka with an 8.5/10 ahead of Wildheart and myself with a 9.0/10. Is that what you intended or is the 8.5or the order incorrect?

By the way I reran the Schultze Time Trial last night...you've got a bit of work to do...:cheers:
 
Praiano, you've got Digitalbaka with an 8.5/10 ahead of Wildheart and myself with a 9.0/10. Is that what you intended or is the 8.5or the order incorrect?

By the way I reran the Schultze Time Trial last night...you've got a bit of work to do...:cheers:

Hello my friend,the note is for my driving sensation and the driver choice include the Gran turismo spirit of the car. MR for me and above all , so much oriented performance supercars , have to recieve this note for what they are, awesome bolids, but this is out of the contest spirit for me.

The Schultze Time Trial is great , now you're 400"" faster, i'll try to go there today :) ,we are 2 and 3 position on my friend list. But now i saw Madame CSLACR lovato with 1".500 less at 2.00"460. World ranking 31 :crazy::crazy:. Magic is magic.
 
I got the FR added last night sheep, for some reason I didn't see it before then. :yuck: Glad to see that my car is hold its own so far in driving feel but it's getting murdered on the track. :embarrassed: Guess that PP disadvantage is hard to overcome...
 
Do we have the final list of test drivers settled? If there are more than 6 I have some work to do on the scoresheet.

As far as the Gran Touring feel goes, I feel a little misled. The rules were any car over the weight limit, and Desperado even hinted that a NASCAR could be entered. I almost entered a GT-R Shulze and still went for the crazy Veyron. The points system favored speed over feel, even though Driver's Choice was one category. This Grand Touring concept evolved over time, it was not set at the beginning. Otherwise we would not have seen the Lambos, the GT-R, Corvette, Audi R8, Viper and two Veyrons. These cars, other than the Veyrons, did well in the Driver's Choice in the first round. It is too bad the definition keeps changing. I don't think those of us who entered these cars would have done so if we had known it was going to turn out this way. :ill:
 
Do we have the final list of test drivers settled? If there are more than 6 I have some work to do on the scoresheet.

As far as the Gran Touring feel goes, I feel a little misled. The rules were any car over the weight limit, and Desperado even hinted that a NASCAR could be entered. I almost entered a GT-R Shulze and still went for the crazy Veyron. The points system favored speed over feel, even though Driver's Choice was one category. This Grand Touring concept evolved over time, it was not set at the beginning. Otherwise we would not have seen the Lambos, the GT-R, Corvette, Audi R8, Viper and two Veyrons. These cars, other than the Veyrons, did well in the Driver's Choice in the first round. It is too bad the definition keeps changing. I don't think those of us who entered these cars would have done so if we had known it was going to turn out this way. :ill:
I removed Dragonthing and Onboy from the list of test drivers. Unless I missed someone else it looks like we have 7 test drivers for the final round.

The drivers choice ranking is an individual choice and the criteria each test driver uses to determine it is up to them.

As for what car is a Gran Turismo, Grand Touring, GT car that is difficult to pin down. I suggest you read the entire Wikipedia entry regarding Grand Tourers.

Specificly look at the following sections: GT abbreviation, Grand tourers in racing, Examples of grand tourers.

I believe many of you may be surprised by the various cars listed in those sections.
 
Indeed, but it was very unoriginal which is why I went for the LP640. However that hasn't seemed to have worked.
Considering no one entered an 8C it would have been very original.:lol:

Hey folks we have a real dog fight going on in the photo poll for the finals. Make sure you all vote before the deadline.👍👍
 
XDesperado67
Considering no one entered an 8C it would have been very original.:lol:

Hey folks we have a real dog fight going on in the photo poll for the finals. Make sure you all vote before the deadline.👍👍

I would have entered the 8C but for some reason I cannot bring myself to buy another one over my Amaranth Pearl beauty...
 
Ok, I'll be starting my testing tonight, it's going to start from midnight over here and end sometime in the early hours of 3 AM as I'm out watching MI:3/4/5/whatever the new film is and my phone's screen is glitchy so i can't post the template. Hopefully, the time over in the states isn't that late...
 
Ok, I'll be starting my testing tonight, it's going to start from midnight over here and end sometime in the early hours of 3 AM as I'm out watching MI:3/4/5/whatever the new film is and my phone's screen is glitchy so i can't post the template. Hopefully, the time over in the states isn't that late...
Uhm I thought you had asked to be taken off the list of official test drivers...:confused:

Go ahead and test and I'll see if madmyk can add your results back in.:drool:
 
Complete Test Results

Times: Nürburgring GP/D

3 Time attacks of 5 laps. Total 15 laps.
01:28.690 - ACSR421
01:28.783 - Johnnypenso
01:29.120 - krenkme
01:29.826 - wildheart90
01:30.587 - madmyk
01:33.758 - DigitalBaka
01:33.558 - XDesperado67
01:34.950 - praiano63

Times: Madrid Mini (Reverse)
2 Time attacks of 10 laps. Total 20 laps.
00:45.997 - madmyk
00:46.371 - ACSR421
00:46.485 - Johnnypenso
00:47.001 - krenkme
00:47.383 - wildheart90
00:49.670 - XDesperado67
00:50.063 - DigitalBaka
00:50.136 - praiano63

Drivers Choice
This will be decided on driving feel and enjoyment on the above tracks.

#1 ACSR421 Lamborghini Murcialago LP670-4 SV '09 "Bodacious"
I picked this car as number one mainly because I was able to achieve the fastest lap at Nurb GP. I will for sure be purchasing this car and applying the setup because it is so easy to drive.

#2 Johnnypenso Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro '09
2nd place I choose this car. This for me was the most enjoyable and could easily of been #1. This car's suspension is very good and it absorbs the bumps on the road very well

#3 praiano63 Maserati Gran Turismo S '08
3rd place is hard to choose, its either this or the Ferrari. But because this car is more GT and handles more like a road car I pick this over the Ferrari.

#4 DigitalBaka Ferrari California '08 GT "Solar Flare"
This car was also one of my favourites, I have not drove many Ferrari's in the game but I bet this is a good example of one. It was very easy to drive didnt have any problems with it. More of a track car than a Gran Tourer though.

#5 krenkme Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09
Although this car was hard to be consistent with, the laps that were good I enjoyed. Its a very quick car and maybe with a few adjustments it could be more driver friendly.

#6 wildheart90 Lamborghini Murciélago LP 640 '09
Good easy car to drive, not quite sure which class this car could be, I wouldn't choose is for track racing. For me its too big and heavy, its also quite jumpy on the bumps. Suspension maybe a bit soft.

#7 XDesperado67 Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08 "Isabella"
Not really a big fan of this car, nothing personal just I prefer old American muscle to new. I did find it a lil bit tricky to drive sometimes. You got to be really carefull with your foot otherwise you can easily spin it.

#8 madmyk Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09
Again not really a fan of the veyron, its very fast and has plenty of bhp but its not too good for racing on closed technical circuits.

Comments
XDesperado67 Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08 "Isabella"
Nurburgring GP/D
Another good car I think, slightly harder to drive than the Maserati though. Maybe slightly softer ARB's in the rear, or some +Toe, to keep the rear in a bit. Braking is very good though and so is turn-in.
Madrid Mini Reverse
Fast on the straights, not so fast around the hairpin though. I definately lost time on this part of the track, just couldnt get it right.

krenkme Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09
Nurburgring GP/D
Very fast car, at first I thought it was on higher grade tyres because it was much quicker around the track than the cars testest so far, so after the 1st time attack I checked, but they were on Sports Softs. This car is quick but also inconsistent. The times varied from 1:30 to 1:35's. The car does handle well but after 3laps the tire wear kicks in forcing you to be slower around the track. The car also becomes unstable at high speeds.
Madrid Mini Reverse
Quickest car testest here so far, acceleration out of corners is good. On some occasions on corner entry the car would oversteer a bit too much. Again the car was unstable on the long straights and under heavy braking.

Johnnypenso Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro '09
Nurburgring GP/D
This car is very quick and enjoyable to drive, tire wear is not as bad as some of the other cars either. Turn-in was good acceleration good, all in all a very well balanced car, and one of my favourites so far. Didnt really have any trouble with the track and I was able to do consistent fast laps.
Madrid Mini Reverse
Again nothing I can pick at here, the car does what it supposed to. Its very quick, good grip and good braking.

wildheart90 Lamborghini Murciélago LP 640 '09
Nurburgring GP/D
All in all a good fun car, took me a few laps to get used to it though. Good grip on corner exit, amazing acceleration, braking can be an issue sometimes as the rear end kicks out which I dont like. I think you have to be precise with your steering with this car, sometimes I would turn to much on corner entry and hit the curb which is not good for lap times. Theres pretty much no understeer, and I like how the LSD is set up for on throttle corner exiting.
Madrid Mini Reverse
The car was less enjoyable here, I found it to be a bit unstable on the last high speed part of this track. The part of the track where you can take that left turn full throttle at the top top of the hill, If this car hit the small curb on the right, before the jump, the car would jump off of that little curb first, sometimes making me crash into the barriers. Apart from that the car was good, but I think I could've made mid 46's if it wernt for the jumpyness of the car. (Think I just made that word up haha).

praiano63 Maserati Gran Turismo S '08
Nurburgring GP/D
Very nice car, enjoyable drive and good fun if you like drifting. I found that sometimes on corner exit there was mild understeer. Also I think the LSD could do with a slight adjustment, on some occasions the rear inside tyre would spin, indicating that the torque is going to the wrong tyre.
Madrid Mini Reverse
Again really enjoyed the ride, didnt have any issues with the handling here, the car performed beautifully, nice work. I managed to take the hairpin before the finsh line perfectly with this car.

ACSR421 Lamborghini Murcialago LP670-4 SV '09 "Bodacious"
Nurburgring GP/D
Top tune here, very stable, I like everything about this, cant make it any better for my driving style. Didnt expect to get the fastest lap here with this car, I honestly thought the R8 had that covered.
Madrid Mini Reverse
Very fast, very stable. No bad point at all, the tune works very well. I think I could've maybe beat the Veyron's time here as my lap was not perfect.


madmyk Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09
Nurburgring GP/D
This car is hard to drive, although it has over 1000bhp and more pp than the other contenders its not the fastest around this track. It takes quite a while to slow the car down to enter a corner. You also have to take it slow through the corners otherwise you will get understeer and end up in the grass. Once you are through the corner though and can see the straight then you can put your foot down and rocket to the next corner. This is also the only car that I couldn't go full throttle through the long right turn before the chicane.
Madrid Mini Reverse
Very good on the straights, but be carefull when coming up to a corner, you have to be aware and time your braking perfectly to bring you to the right speed for the corner. I found myself many times leaving the braking too late and hitting the barriers.


DigitalBaka Ferrari California '08 GT "Solar Flare"
Nurburgring GP/D
Very easy car to drive, for a car with over 600hp it grips really well on corner exit, I was surprised at how far you can put your foot down without the car spinning. Very good tune mate, well done.
Madrid Mini Reverse
Same as above really, although I found myself braking to late and running wide, so would've been able to knock a few tenths off if I had more time. Not sure what the LSD Decel settings are but when I released the throttle the car didnt turn in as much as i'd like it too. Lower LSD Decel values could fix this?

Completed my results and have a two short replays of my choice for the Driver Choice Awards.

Well done to all the tuners that made it this far, and good luck to whoever wins. I have enjoyed being a test driver for this shootout and I believe I have improved my driving skills too. Thanks to all who made this happen. 👍
 
Complete Test Results
#5 krenkme Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09
Although this car was hard to be consistent with, the laps that were good I enjoyed. Its a very quick car and maybe with a few adjustments it could be more driver friendly.

krenkme Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09
Nurburgring GP/D
Very fast car, at first I thought it was on higher grade tyres because it was much quicker around the track than the cars testest so far, so after the 1st time attack I checked, but they were on Sports Softs. This car is quick but also inconsistent. The times varied from 1:30 to 1:35's. The car does handle well but after 3laps the tire wear kicks in forcing you to be slower around the track. The car also becomes unstable at high speeds.
Madrid Mini Reverse
Quickest car testest here so far, acceleration out of corners is good. On some occasions on corner entry the car would oversteer a bit too much. Again the car was unstable on the long straights and under heavy braking.



My results:

krenkme - Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09
Very fast car but difficult to make regular fast laps , unstable. Eat a lot of tires and show oversteer exit corner. A lot of central rotation ,
good for evolution but sharp, not good for a GT car. Very good fun car on Madrid. 7.5/10.

Thank you very much for the feed back. I made it farther then I'd planed. I think I need to scale back to power and rework the suspention, and maybe it would be more enjoyable to drive. Thanks for your time. :dopey:
 
Okay folks we only have about 3 1/2 hours left until the Test Drivers deadline.

It's shaping up to be a very tight finish here so looking forward to seeing how it all shakes out.:gtpflag:
 
Completed my results and have a two short replays of my choice for the Driver Choice Awards.
#1 ACSR421 Lamborghini Murcialago LP670-4 SV '09 "Bodacious"
I picked this car as number one mainly because I was able to achieve the fastest lap at Nurb GP. I will for sure be purchasing this car and applying the setup because it is so easy to drive.

ACSR421 Lamborghini Murcialago LP670-4 SV '09 "Bodacious"
Nurburgring GP/D
Top tune here, very stable, I like everything about this, cant make it any better for my driving style. Didnt expect to get the fastest lap here with this car, I honestly thought the R8 had that covered.
Madrid Mini Reverse
Very fast, very stable. No bad point at all, the tune works very well. I think I could've maybe beat the Veyron's time here as my lap was not perfect.
Glad you enjoyed the car and that the tune worked well for your style. A big thanks for the replay videos also. :cheers:
 
My results : Thanks to whomevers template I copied hope you don't mind.

Times: Nürburgring GP/D

01:28.487 - ACSR421
01:29.221 - Johnnypenso
01:29.234 - krenkme
01:30.271 - wildheart90
01:29.207 - madmyk
01:33.933 - DigitalBaka
01:32.649 - XDesperado67
01:33.787 - praiano63

Times: Madrid Mini (Reverse)

00:46.028 - madmyk
00:46.892 - ACSR421
00:46.895 - Johnnypenso
00:47.356 - krenkme
00:46.702 - wildheart90
00:49.397 - XDesperado67
00:49.699 - DigitalBaka
00:49.851 - praiano63

Drivers Choice
Based on how well the cars suited my driving style

#1 ACSR421 Lamborghini Murcialago LP670-4 SV '09 "Bodacious"
Feels like it was tuned just for me.

#2 Johnnypenso Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro '09
Felt very similiar to my own Lambo. Audi owns Lamborghini and the two
Lambos in this event share the same chassis and drivetrain as the R8
its easy to see why they all feel alike. A little longer braking distance
with this one but it also did some things I liked better than mine.

#3 XDesperado67 Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08 "Isabella"
Really like this car and would be number one but I can't get the power
down on exit like I want resulting in too many spins and lost time. An
easy LSD adjustment would cure it but I have to put it in third as is.

#4 wildheart90 Lamborghini Murciélago LP 640 '09
Liked the feel at Madrid but a little too loose and soft to push harder at
GP/D. Great fun to drive when hoonin' around though.

#5 krenkme Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09
Good handling though a little loose overall. Plenty fast but had longish brake
distances for me. Fits my driving style well otherwise.

#6 DigitalBaka Ferrari California '08 GT "Solar Flare"
I really enjoyed this car and could easily of been my top choice based on feel.
I think some time retuning it for these two tracks would have helped. A little
understeery at times mainly because of the forementioned locations.

#7 praiano63 Maserati Gran Turismo S '08
Very similiar feel to the Ferrari and would have also liked it tuned specifically
for these last two locations. I think it would work even better for me.
I enjoyed it very much overall and will build my own with these settings.

#8 madmyk Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09
Very good job on the Veyron I have tried tuning my own with little success in the past and know the cars braking and turning limitations. I like this one and will try these settings on mine. I think the Veyron suffers in the fun factor category when faced with smaller quicker handling/stopping cars. The acceleration and top speed is always a rush with this car though.

I would like to say great job to everyone who took part in this Shootout. Ranking these cars in order was not fun for me but had to be done. Difficult to find anything I didn't like about them just different varieties of great cars. I'll be building and keeping one of each in my garage.

Thanks all and happy holidays -AC
 
Hope you don't mind Praiano, I copied and pasted your format.

Times: Nürburgring GP/D
1.33.064 XDesperado67 - Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08 "Isabella"// 580pp
1.28.316 krenkme - Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09//610pp
1.27.906 Johnnypenso - Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro '09//629pp
1.29.442 wildheart90 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP 640 '09//612pp
1.32.848 praiano63 - Maserati Gran Turismo S '08//564pp
1.28.359 ACSR421 - Lamborghini Murcialago LP670-4 SV '09//621pp
1.28.151 madmyk - Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09//659pp
1.32.660 DigitalBaka - Ferrari California '08 GT "Solar Flare"//578pp



Times: Madrid Mini (Reverse)
50.123 XDesperado67 - Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08 "Isabella"// 580pp
46.692 krenkme - Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09//610pp
46.494 Johnnypenso - Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro '09//629pp
46.940 wildheart90 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP 640 '09//612pp
50.012 praiano63 - Maserati Gran Turismo S '08//564pp
46.545 ACSR421 - Lamborghini Murcialago LP670-4 SV '09//621pp
46.295 madmyk - Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09//659pp
49.664 DigitalBaka - Ferrari California '08 GT "Solar Flare"//578pp

Drivers Choice:
1. DigitalBaka - Ferrari California '08 GT "Solar Flare"
2. Johnnypenso - Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro '09
3. praiano63 - Maserati Gran Turismo S '08
4. wildheart90 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP 640 '09
5. ACSR421 - Lamborghini Murcialago LP670-4 SV '09 "Bodacious"
6. krenkme - Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09
7. XDesperado67 - Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08 "Isabella"
8. madmyk - Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09

Overall I have to say this was an excellent group. For me the first choice was pretty clearcut, but 2 through 6 were extremely close and ultimately came down to feel and driving comfort more than anything else. If it was allowed I probably would have had a couple of ties in there it was that close.

Comments:

XDesperado67 - Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08 "Isabella"
I'm not sure if it's me or the DFGT or what it was, but I really struggled to keep the back end under control even with fresh, warm tires. Handling was good, predictable and balanced on both ends, but I really struggled to run consistent laps and get the power down even when the car was only slightly off balance. 7.5/10

krenkme - Nissan GT-R SPEC V '09
Ultimately a fast ride but inconsistent for me. My fastest lap was not one of many fast laps but one of few. Good turn in, but some understeer on exit of some corners. 8/10

johnnypenso - Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro '09
Well balanced, good braking, good grip without being overdone at either end. Smooth in, fast out, able to easily run consistent, fast laps with little drama. 9.5/10

wildheart90 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP 640 '09
Well balanced and improved cornering for me compared to the first round. Touch of lift off oversteer came in handy to get the car to rotate and line up for entry sometimes. Only real downside to this car was the lack of a tuned gearbox which would have helped with laptimes considerably. 9/10

praiano63 - Maserati Gran Turismo S '08

The only one of the entrants I didn't have the chance to drive in the first round. Very well balanced, carves through corners well in and out. Balanced and precise. Good braking. Only downside for me was that the gearbox could have been better tuned for the tracks and a slightly higher rear LSD to take out the inside wheelspin on some corners. 9.3/10

ACSR421 - Lamborghini Murcialago LP670-4 SV '09 "Bodacious"
Another well balanced car for the most part. Good entry and exit, good braking. Only real downside was that the rear seemed a bit too active out of some of the tighter corners, something you expect to be easily tuned out with a 4wd car.
8.8/10

madmyk - Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09
I really wanted to like this car. Not sure if the tune was adjusted or not for this round I didn't see the before and after, but it felt as if it was turning better for me on both tracks. Difficult to be consistent, tires shredded quickly. Too much power and weight to feel comfortable with it but overall a very good tune for a Veyron. 7/10.

DigitalBaka - Ferrari California '08 GT "Solar Flare"
Not the fastest car but for me, the best of the bunch. I liked everything about the car from corner entry to exit to getting the power down to braking. I would change nothing about this car. 10/10
 
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The Schultze Time Trial is great , now you're 400"" faster, i'll try to go there today :) ,we are 2 and 3 position on my friend list. But now i saw Madame CSLACR lovato with 1".500 less at 2.00"460. World ranking 31 :crazy::crazy:. Magic is magic.
I'm going to give a second pass myself tonight.
Noticed you and Johnny have some pretty nice times up there, top 10 on my friends list, both of you.👍
 
wildheart90 - Lamborghini Murciélago LP 640 '09
Well balanced and improved cornering for me compared to the first round. Touch of lift off oversteer came in handy to get the car to rotate and line up for entry sometimes. Only real downside to this car was the lack of a tuned gearbox which would have helped with laptimes considerably. 9/10

Thanks for your feedback, what exactly do you mean by lack of a tuned gearbox? As I am still a noob at tuning can you please let me know how exactly it can be improved?
 
How will the work the sum of the points ? weight + madrid time + Nurb time + driver choice + photo ??
I think the sum of the 2 tracks will be unfair for slower cars like mine. Fair will be (madrid time + Nurb time) / 2 . This is just my opinion.
 
How will the work the sum of the points ? weight + madrid time + Nurb time + driver choice + photo ??
I think the sum of the 2 tracks will be unfair for slower cars like mine. Fair will be (madrid time + Nurb time) / 2 . This is just my opinion.
Scoring for the Final Round works exactly the same way it did for the first round.

Johnnypenso
XDesperado67 - Dodge Challenger SRT8 08’

I’ve really only driven this car out of the recommended garage and I always liked it’s handling and was hoping it would be much the same. It did not disappoint. Turn in was both sharp and balanced at Monza and exit was smooth and fast. The car was predictable and balanced all over the track. Tire wear was slightly higher than average but even as the tires wore the car remained balanced, a hallmark of a good tune. In London again the car was smooth and predictable but I felt the LSD was a bit too active although it was controllable if you were conscious of it. It was particularly good in the esses. Tire wear was about average here but you really had to take care of the back end after the first few laps. Overall a very good ride and great lap times for a RWD non-supercar. Could probably be improved a lot for me personally by toning down the Accel LSD. 9.0/10

XDesperado67 - Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08 "Isabella" I'm not sure if it's me or the DFGT or what it was, but I really struggled to keep the back end under control even with fresh, warm tires. Handling was good, predictable and balanced on both ends, but I really struggled to run consistent laps and get the power down even when the car was only slightly off balance. 7.5/10
I'm a little confused here about the wild difference in your scoring between the First Round and the Final Round.

Your main concern about "Isabella" in the First round was what you felt was a slightly high LSD. My main changes to her was to reduce the LSD slightly and adjust the transmission for the tracks. Only other thing I can figure that might account for your difficulties would be the reduction of rear downforce, although in my testing the original setting for the rear downforce created a slight tendency towards understeer at mid corner and on corner exit...:odd:
 
Still need Final Round results for sheephead99 and GoSpeedGo88. Also for Onboy123 if your going to submit them.

Great job everyone and I will hopefully have the Final results tallied in a bit.:gtpflag:
 
Still need Final Round results for sheephead99 and GoSpeedGo88. Also for Onboy123 if your going to submit them.

Great job everyone and I will hopefully have the Final results tallied in a bit.:gtpflag:

Sorry guys, couldn't make it. But still, congratulations to everyone for making it to the end of Harvey's wild dreams! :D
 
Scoring for the Final Round works exactly the same way it did for the first round.

That's it, so , laps times count more than the others criterions . total points = 40% speed + 20% driver's choice + 20% picture + 20 % weight .

Also , i think it would be better the next time to send this result to the organizer by PM and he'll publish all the tester results at the same time, like this nobody will vote depending of how the other judge his car.
 

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