stock tires not true-to-life?

Bluebit · May 31, 2012

just a small observation.
here's an example

I just bought a new corvette ZR1, And it came with Sport/Hard tires.

turned TCS off (I presume it doesn't have any anyway

)
... and have you tried driving a Zr1, TCS off, on S/H ?

Terrible.

So my conclusion, is that either Chevrolet does not care for it's customers,
or that in GT5, newly bought cars just don't wear the actual tires they use in real life.

it's a shame, really. I don't like stuffing all of my cars with R3. but rather, the tires it really uses in real life.

Samus · May 31, 2012

In a word, no.

Goshin2568 · May 31, 2012

I don't know how it is with the supposed new grip levels, but for like 85% of road cars before 2.06, they needed comfort soft to be more realistic.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

The ZR1 comes with two tire options from the factory. Michelin Pilot Sport Cup ZP - a 80 treadwear R-compound DOT tire or the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP runflat - 220 treadwear Summer tire. Your GT5 counterparts are Sports Hard/Medium for the R-compound tire, or Comfort Soft for the Summer tire. 638hp and instant Supercharged Torque with TC off requires a little bit of throttle control.

GTPorsche · May 31, 2012

The tires in GT5 are generic, so in a way none of the tires are "true to life" other than the fact that they are rubber and attack to wheel rims.

gt5fanatec · May 31, 2012

I've been wondering this myself. My example would be a 458. S/H? Really? I put S/S on it and it felt like that would be more true to real life than S/H.

Vegard · May 31, 2012

The true test would be comparing real life lap times with GT5 lap times.
In my opinion most cars in GT5 have too much grip with stock tyres.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

The 458 comes with Michelin Pilot Super Sport - treadwear 300. Comfort Soft or maybe, MAYBE sports hard since it's not a runflat.

If it's not a R-compound tire, then I leave it on Comforts. I say that R-compound tires are in the GT5 "Sports" catagory.

Take a stock 458, run it arould Laguna Seca on Comfort Softs. You goal is to get a 1:36.22 +/- 1 second.

MustangManiac · May 31, 2012

What makes you think the ZR1 doesn't have TCS? The new Vette employs what is called PTM: Performance Traction Management system. This would include TCS, ABS, active steering and throttle/engine brake control. Actually, you would be hard pressed to find a road car made in the past decade that did not have TCS and ABS. Active steering/throttle and braking is getting more common every day, especially with high powered sports or high dollar luxury cars. So I find it rather amusing all those that crow about not using any driving aids to be more realistic when the truth would actually be the opposite.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

MustangManiac is right... the ZR1 does have all that.

But... here's the thing about TCS/PTM and such. They may use brakes to keep you in line. Personally, I don't want the brakes to be activated unless my foot is on the pedal. If your aids are working overdrive to keep you in line, then they may be overheating the brakes. Overheated brakes while on a track is a bad, bad thing.

Johnnypenso · May 31, 2012

Everyone likes to talk about realism or lack therof in tires, and yet I rarely see anyone in one of these threads comparing real life track times to GT5 track times, in the hands of a skilled driver. And of course with whatever aids come with the car in question. These discussions are a complete waste of time without some kind of comparison.

McClarenDesign · May 31, 2012

This topic has been covered.

Famine
There is no reference point in real life for what a Racing Hard tyre is in Gran Turismo. If you believe otherwise, please tell me the exact tyre make, grade, friction coefficient and wear coefficient of a GT5 Racing Hard compound.

Basically this. Without a reference point, there's nothing to compare it to. It's like saying the ammo in Call of Duty isn't realistic. Of coarse it isn't, it's a game.

Exorcet · May 31, 2012

Johnnypenso
Everyone likes to talk about realism or lack therof in tires, and yet I rarely see anyone in one of these threads comparing real life track times to GT5 track times, in the hands of a skilled driver. And of course with whatever aids come with the car in question. These discussions are a complete waste of time without some kind of comparison.

Comparisons are great, but laptimes aren't the end all way to settle what's realistic and what's not.

This has been discussed before, there is a large thread on the subject that can be found using search. The criteria used was lateral grip and the basic conclusion was Comfort Soft for sports car, Sports Hard for street legal R compound.

But again, this is based only on lateral grip. The big issue is, GT5 is not perfectly accurate and the tire model is simple, so nothing you pick will recreate a real world car. The best you can hope for to get close to some measure of performance that was recorded by the real car.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

While not perfect... here is your refrence point. The Motor Trend's Best Drivers Car 2011.

Stock cars, around Laguna Seca with Randy Pobst. Use the GT-R, LFA, 458, Vette, Evora, SLS and R8. If your times are better than what Randy did, then you more than likely need to back the tires in GT5 down a notch or two to mimic the real life counterparts.

Samus · May 31, 2012

Bottoz
While not perfect... here is your refrence point. The Motor Trend's Best Drivers Car 2011.

Stock cars, around Laguna Seca with Randy Pobst. Use the GT-R, LFA, 458, Vette, Evora, SLS and R8. If your times are better than what Randy did, then you more than likely need to back the tires in GT5 down a notch or two to mimic the real life counterparts.

No. It means you can drive around a virtual representation with a virtual car quicker than he can. It doesn't mean the tyres are too grippy, it's the other variables + lack of fear etc.

Goshin2568 · May 31, 2012

What you have to understand is that without TCS, most cars are much more slidey than you would expect. Go find a car, and watch it's top gear review (good example because they aren't afraid to slide around in their reviews) and notice how easily it slides around. Then go to GT5 and put sports compound tires on the car, and see if it slides around as much. It won't. Not even close. Then try with comfort softs or mediums.

Sports tires in GT5 have WAY too much grip, unless, as people have mentioned, the real car has semi-slick or R compound tires.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

It's not perfect... but it's as close as we can get as a comparison.

Scaff · May 31, 2012

Vegard
The true test would be comparing real life lap times with GT5 lap times.
In my opinion most cars in GT5 have too much grip with stock tyres.

Johnnypenso
Everyone likes to talk about realism or lack therof in tires, and yet I rarely see anyone in one of these threads comparing real life track times to GT5 track times, in the hands of a skilled driver. And of course with whatever aids come with the car in question. These discussions are a complete waste of time without some kind of comparison.

Bottoz
While not perfect... here is your refrence point. The Motor Trend's Best Drivers Car 2011.

Stock cars, around Laguna Seca with Randy Pobst. Use the GT-R, LFA, 458, Vette, Evora, SLS and R8. If your times are better than what Randy did, then you more than likely need to back the tires in GT5 down a notch or two to mimic the real life counterparts.

Lap times are not a measure of how accurate tyre selection is, nor is it a measure of how well the physics function in a title.

For this reason......

SimonK
No. It means you can drive around a virtual representation with a virtual car quicker than he can. It doesn't mean the tyres are too grippy, it's the other variables + lack of fear etc.

....and many others. People matched lap-times back in GT4! A great fuss was made by many of a youtube video showing a guy lapping his real car and a GT5 car at close to exact times, problem was it was pre-2.0 and the physics overhaul.

You can match real world lap times in just about any game with the right track and car, doesn't mean the title is even a sim.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

For the 3rd time. IT'S NOT PERFECT, BUT IT IS AS CLOSE AS WE CAN GET.

Scaff · May 31, 2012

Bottoz
For the 3rd time. IT'S NOT PERFECT, BUT IT IS AS CLOSE AS WE CAN GET.

You may want to calm down a little.

MSTER232 · May 31, 2012

Slightly off topic, but if anyone here has played GT4, then you will know that you could buy aftermarket parts from different manufacturers including tyres. However, they all had the same effect on your car. I was thinking that we could bring this feature back into GT5 or GT6 but this time, different parts from different manufacturers will affect your cars performance in different ways (as well as different prices). I think this would be more realistic to be honest.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

So my post was deleted about how to test tires? Awesome... it had lots of helpful suggestions. Thanks Scaff, or whoever. :/ Nice use of mod power.

Scaff · May 31, 2012

Bottoz
So my post was deleted about how to test tires? Awesome... it had lots of helpful suggestions. Thanks Scaff, or whoever. :/ Nice use of mod power.

You post was deleted because you chose to respond to a polite and straight forward request from a member of staff with a veiled Nazi jibe.

The staff are not exactly big fans of those.

Should you wish to keep your posts in place in future I would strongly suggest that you ensure it keeps to the AUP.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

And you reacted appropriately per the comment. Hey, maybe I'm German? You wanna put back my suggestions... or do I have to type it all out again?

Scaff · May 31, 2012

Bottoz
And you reacted appropriately per the comment.

Given that I could have both deleted the post and issued a formal warning then I think the reaction was quite tame. Your reaction is certainly making me think that was a mistake.

Bottoz
Hey, maybe I'm German?

Please don't try and be smart with this.

Oh and even if you or I were German the AUP would still pose an issue for you:

AUP
You will post all messages in English.

Bottoz
You wanna put back my suggestions... or do I have to type it all out again?

So let me get this right, you imply that my moderation action (which was polite in the extreme) is comparable to the actions of a genocidal dictatorship that led the world to war and then expect me to fix the situation when you fail to even acknowledge you did it or show the slightest bit of regret for it.

I think you can guess the answer.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

Keep flexing your mod power over a little jab.

Anyways... what I said was...

I don't have the time to do extensive testing, but the Motor Trend data has corner entry MPH, Lateral G, Braking G and total lap time. Someone could use that data, and use GT5s lap analyzer to get similar statistics. If one were to recreate total lap time and match up the Gs, I'd say that the tire choice between game and real life would be close.

It's not perfect (wind resistance, barometric pressure, temp, fuel load), but it could be close.

MOTORTRENDmitch · May 31, 2012

Bottoz
While not perfect... here is your refrence point. The Motor Trend's Best Drivers Car 2011.

Stock cars, around Laguna Seca with Randy Pobst. Use the GT-R, LFA, 458, Vette, Evora, SLS and R8. If your times are better than what Randy did, then you more than likely need to back the tires in GT5 down a notch or two to mimic the real life counterparts.

This would have been my first thing to say as well. However they are right that it doesn't represent tires completely. It certainly does a good job though. Another way to tell if your tires are giving the right amount of grip, look at the G meter, the ZR1 should be getting about a 1 G average around a turn. With sport hard tires you actually get more then that, but your average may be around 1. People just think they don't have enough grip because they can't floor it out of the turns. Trust me - a professional race car driver does not floor a ZR1 out of any corner unless he wants to have fun. Many cars in this game have been given way to much grip, the Toyota GT86 for instance. When Chris Harris tested it, he said it had the same rubber as a Prius to make it fun. The Prius in GT5 has CM I believe. The GT86 has SH. Which is FAR to much grip. I just put the tires that I believe provide the appropriate grip level for the car.

Scaff
You post was deleted because you chose to respond to a polite and straight forward request from a member of staff with a veiled Nazi jibe.

I believe you meant "your" post in that context. Just wanted to clear it up in-case anyone was mislead.

Scaff · May 31, 2012

Bottoz
Keep flexing your mod power over a little jab.

Seriously you need to drop this.

I have flexed nothing at all, you lost you temper and then made an inappropriate comment when asked to calm down. Either acknowledge you made a mistake and move on or you will find I take moderation action that will make you notice.

You were in the wrong, you got asked to stop, be sensible and move on, or not. The choice is yours.

Bottoz · May 31, 2012

Temper not lost. Caps were used becuse everyone kept thinking my testing was foolproof. I said over and over that it wasn't. Humor was used, and predictable actions resulted!

Here's the Vette with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup ZP, 80 treadwear R-compound tires.

2011-best-drivers-car-chevrolet-corvette-Z06-track-map.jpg

I would guess that GT5's Sport Medium tires could reproduce this lap time and G forces. Who wants to try it and look at the data with GT5s lap anaylizer?!?!

MOTORTRENDmitch · May 31, 2012

Bottoz
Here's the Vette with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup ZP, 80 treadwear R-compound tires.

I would guess that GT5's Sport Medium tires could reproduce this lap time and G forces. Who wants to try it and look at the data with GT5s lap anaylizer?!?!

That's pretty cool, apparently MT's First Test: Corvette ZR1 - Lateral G average was a bit under estimated?
Awesome picture.

stock tires not true-to-life?

Bluebit

Samus

Goshin2568

Bottoz

GTPorsche

gt5fanatec

Vegard

Bottoz

MustangManiac

TeamJaguarUSA

Bottoz

Johnnypenso

Well known double poster

McClarenDesign

Insightful, but bollocks.

Exorcet

Bottoz

Samus

Goshin2568

Bottoz

Scaff

Bottoz

Scaff

MSTER232

Bottoz

Scaff

Bottoz

Scaff

Bottoz

MOTORTRENDmitch

Scaff

Bottoz

MOTORTRENDmitch

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