requests gone too far

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amar212
This one was always intrigued me.

Why are you asking PD to produce something comparable to Forza?

Do you wish that GT becomes Forza?

Why don't more people ask Turn10 to produce something comparable to GT? To produce game with actual day/night cycles, changeable weather, different types of surfaces, maintenenace/ownership philosophy, consequences for owning/driving the vehicle, B-Spec mode, integrated online lobbies, real-time damage, interior views when looking back/left/right, 60fps in mirrors, real-time spatial sound distribution, actual support for wheels that will not kill the FFB when countersteering, physical model that will equalise controller and wheel players, etc. You know, important things for actual racing game.

Because having additional cars in game that already have 1000+ cars is really not so important. Or spending valuable resources on producing "Livery Editor" with so much more important things for GT/simulation game to add/improve before that.

Why Forza does not have all above things that GT have? And still, amazingly, nobody actually talks/discuss about it?

Why? Just wondering.
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I will use this from your post.

day/night cycles, changeable weather
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The Xbox has it's limit. They can't do 60FPS and the physics with day/night cycle or weather. If everything from Forza 4 stay's the same.

They didn't integrate weather for another reason. They want to create it visual real and add realistic physics in rain.

They don't want do rush things or add incomplete features or content.

The rest of your post is interessting. I think they can learn from each other.
 
ch3ng
They don't want do rush things or add incomplete features or content.
Click to expand...

I think you just cracked the case. GT5 has loads of 80% done stuff that could use improvement, while Forza has everything in it 100% done, but is missing a lot of stuff. I personally would rather have an 80% done game with all those features than a 100% done game without them.
 
gamerdog6482
I think you just cracked the case. GT5 has loads of 80% done stuff that could use improvement, while Forza has everything in it 100% done, but is missing a lot of stuff. I personally would rather have an 80% done game with all those features than a 100% done game without them.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that. I do not compare GT with Forza. We shouldn't make this another Forza vs. GT thread.

I didn't and don't want to do this.

My statment was in general. They don't want to rush things.
 
gamerdog6482
while Forza has everything in it 100% done,
Click to expand...

No, it does not.

Just take interior views for example. Why can't I see interior of my car when using back/left/right button? It was a problem in Forza 3, it is still a problem in Forza 4. While you can pan only the partial interior view when you use the controller - and you can't with the wheel, so much about taking care of more dedicated players - there is no way to see the rear-interior in any model. So much about 100% things done.

City tracks? Oh, the great, real-life, backward-engineering-the-sun lighting engine can't be used to light the proper cities? That was the explanation, right? Perfect. So no city-tracks in Forza too. Great move from FM1/FM2/FM3, just great.

And mind you, I am an avid Forza player from the first game, and pretty serious one.

Forza 4 is full of inconsistencies and crazy design-decisions and holes in the both gameplay-design, in-game structure or integration of features/content. It just takes a few days with with game to discover and understand the actual scope of problems on too many fields which should be very important to any serious player.

Put weather/daytime-cycles aside (why should we really, but let's do it for the sake of discussion) - you're still left with crazy amount of things that are not done properly.

Why does not anyone addresses them in the same way everybody just love to criticise Gran Turismo? Why the hypocrisy? Why the double-standards? Not only regarding to Forza, but to all other games that are often highlighted in such comparisments?

Just wondering.
 
Of couarse, I want to point out all my Forza-related knowledge comes from this forum, I don't actually have an Xbox.
 
According to the "Virtual SLS" video, I think it was that one, Kaz said that it takes 1 month to model a premium car with a group of 6-10 people per car. They have like 50-60 car modelers according to the full credits (not when you finish the game) you can find in the in-game manual. All this is from memory so i could be wrong but i do remember the 1 month per car thing.

With this figures, PD should be able to model 600-1000 premium cars in the six years of development, thats only modeling, other stuff like physics must take some time.

My theory is that PD could not maintain the 50 car modelers at that pace, there was other work to be done and they decided to leave 200 cars as a finished product, we don't know exactly when did PD start modeling cars, maybe they do manage to model premium cars in less than a month but they don't keep a constant pace.

I think PD's problems have to do with organization, more so the lack of.
 
amar212
No, it does not.

Just take interior views for example. Why can't I see interior of my car when using back/left/right button? It was a problem in Forza 3, it is still a problem in Forza 4. While you can pan only the partial interior view when you use the controller - and you can't with the wheel, so much about taking care of more dedicated players - there is no way to see the rear-interior in any model. So much about 100% things done.

City tracks? Oh, the great, real-life, backward-engineering-the-sun lighting engine can't be used to light the proper cities? That was the explanation, right? Perfect. So no city-tracks in Forza too. Great move from FM1/FM2/FM3, just great.

And mind you, I am an avid Forza player from the first game, and pretty serious one.

Forza 4 is full of inconsistencies and crazy design-decisions and holes in the both gameplay-design, in-game structure or integration of features/content. It just takes a few days with with game to discover and understand the actual scope of problems on too many fields which should be very important to any serious player.

Put weather/daytime-cycles aside (why should we really, but let's do it for the sake of discussion) - you're still left with crazy amount of things that are not done properly.

Why does not anyone addresses them in the same way everybody just love to criticise Gran Turismo? Why the hypocrisy? Why the double-standards? Not only regarding to Forza, but to all other games that are often highlighted in such comparisments?

Just wondering.
Click to expand...

:tup:Maybe those Forza players are so in love with the game, they did not realize all the faults it has.
I've played Forza 4 for a 7/8 sessions of an hour or so each with controller, it did not leave great impression at all for me, visually it felt not right, cars are too polished/shiny or plastic ? I also can't describe the feel of the cars, loose, floaty ( visually ), the noise of cars were overdone ? I can't find a word for it ... I would still choose to play Grand Prix 3/4 or NASCAR 2003 or GPL than Forza 4. For me, the main attraction of FM4 was the car choices, but the rest are not that impressive, but I do still play them occasionally at my friend's place, it's the only racing game that he had.
 
mikecustom
According to the "Virtual SLS" video, I think it was that one, Kaz said that it takes 1 month to model a premium car with a group of 6-10 people per car. They have like 50-60 car modelers according to the full credits (not when you finish the game) you can find in the in-game manual. All this is from memory so i could be wrong but i do remember the 1 month per car thing.

With this figures, PD should be able to model 600-1000 premium cars in the six years of development, thats only modeling, other stuff like physics must take some time.
Click to expand...

If they ported premium cars and did no work whatsoever on them gor GT6, and started modelling the standards into premiums now, by the time GT6 comes out we might have them all and some another 5,000 standards...
 
amar212
No, it does not.

Just take interior views for example. Why can't I see interior of my car when using back/left/right button? It was a problem in Forza 3, it is still a problem in Forza 4. While you can pan only the partial interior view when you use the controller - and you can't with the wheel, so much about taking care of more dedicated players - there is no way to see the rear-interior in any model. So much about 100% things done.

City tracks? Oh, the great, real-life, backward-engineering-the-sun lighting engine can't be used to light the proper cities? That was the explanation, right? Perfect. So no city-tracks in Forza too. Great move from FM1/FM2/FM3, just great.

And mind you, I am an avid Forza player from the first game, and pretty serious one.

Forza 4 is full of inconsistencies and crazy design-decisions and holes in the both gameplay-design, in-game structure or integration of features/content. It just takes a few days with with game to discover and understand the actual scope of problems on too many fields which should be very important to any serious player.

Put weather/daytime-cycles aside (why should we really, but let's do it for the sake of discussion) - you're still left with crazy amount of things that are not done properly.

Why does not anyone addresses them in the same way everybody just love to criticise Gran Turismo? Why the hypocrisy? Why the double-standards? Not only regarding to Forza, but to all other games that are often highlighted in such comparisments?

Just wondering.
Click to expand...

Well I can't criticise Forza because I don't have it, but it's quite obvious that Gran Turismo players complain more because our game is worse, Forza might not be as great as I think, but hey, Forza has the basics a 100% done.

Cars
Tracks
Physics
Sounds

GT can't even succesfully complete that simple chart, physics is the only thing that it kind of does right.
 
I played Foraza 4 once and the only thing I can say is the physics aren't up to what GT is. Also, when I tried to play one simple race I found a lot of features that GT or any sim wouldn't have:
It brakes for you if you brake late
It steers for you if you don't steer
These things aren't realistic to me.
 
gamerdog6482
I played Foraza 4 once and the only thing I can say is the physics aren't up to what GT is.
Click to expand...

You only played once and you can say this? How are the physics not up to GT5?

Also, when I tried to play one simple race I found a lot of features that GT or any sim wouldn't have:
It brakes for you if you brake late
It steers for you if you don't steer
These things aren't realistic to me.
Click to expand...

Those are options that you can turn OFF. And if you're going to complain about that, why aren't you saying anything about GT5's fake Skid Recovery Force feature?
 
I've played both games alot and I've encountered problems in both series

Physics = This parameter is really interesting, FM4 players think their game has nailed the physics part ? Think again, I can list few things why.
Brakes = Game doesnt make ANY difference for Disc or Drum brakes
IF you turn OFF your ABS, the difference is so minimum it is so hard to get brakes to "lock" at all.
Fuel Consumption, in FM4 every car uses exact the same amount of fuel, no matter is the car a Datsun 510 or a Bugatti Veyron, Fuel = Weight = Physics.

Tires, they might have "Pirelli" data but they didnt put much effort on lifespan of the tires, meaning even the Slicks can handle 5-15 laps on Nurburgring without even heating up, not so right.

Tire deformation = Only way players did even heard about this is simple, T10 kept drumming about it so much people forgot how false the track surfaces really are compared to actual tracks.

BUT, I do give ++ to FM4 because of the carlist it has, even the cars itself arent made that well, and the track selection is good.

But just for physics, GT5 wins easily because it has so many areas covered just right.
 
Sampyla20plus
I've played both games alot and I've encountered problems in both series

Physics = This parameter is really interesting, FM4 players think their game has nailed the physics part ? Think again, I can list few things why.
Brakes = Game doesnt make ANY difference for Disc or Drum brakes
IF you turn OFF your ABS, the difference is so minimum it is so hard to get brakes to "lock" at all.
Fuel Consumption, in FM4 every car uses exact the same amount of fuel, no matter is the car a Datsun 510 or a Bugatti Veyron, Fuel = Weight = Physics.

Tires, they might have "Pirelli" data but they didnt put much effort on lifespan of the tires, meaning even the Slicks can handle 5-15 laps on Nurburgring without even heating up, not so right.

Tire deformation = Only way players did even heard about this is simple, T10 kept drumming about it so much people forgot how false the track surfaces really are compared to actual tracks.

BUT, I do give ++ to FM4 because of the carlist it has, even the cars itself arent made that well, and the track selection is good.

But just for physics, GT5 wins easily because it has so many areas covered just right.
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You know, simply repeating yourself in a different thread to avoid responding when people point out that you are wrong doesn't suddenly make what you are saying accurate.
 
What part of this not being a FM vs GT thread has not sunk in?

You want to discuss these aspects of it then take it to the correct threads. Fail to do so and you will find your ability to post comes to a temporary halt.
 
Sampyla20plus
Terrible sorry about that, I just dont have 24 hours per day to read & react on every single post that someone has pointed towards me, wish I'd be like you.

Sam
Click to expand...

You will find my reply here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7387568#post7387568

Now you claim to not have enough time to reply to every post, yet you have the time to keep posting the same points in numerous threads across the site?

Here's a tip, post you comments once and keep the discussion going rather than spamming the site up. The former will see you remain as a member, the later will not. This is not a point open for discussion.
 
amar212
Why does not anyone addresses them in the same way everybody just love to criticise Gran Turismo? Why the hypocrisy? Why the double-standards? Not only regarding to Forza, but to all other games that are often highlighted in such comparisments?

Just wondering.
Click to expand...

GT5 probably has more simulation/racing features, like chassis wear, time change, weather, etc, but the key is Forza has more fun features.

That's one of the main reasons requests have gone so far...GT5 is simply not fun, or at least not as fun as the previous titles.

I'm not trying to pit the two against each other, I'm not trying to make this Forza vs GT, but from what I see the complaints about the lack of fun features such as livery editor or market place are much more louder then complaints about rain or night racing.
 
Earth
GT5 probably has more simulation/racing features, like chassis wear, time change, weather, etc, but the key is Forza has more fun features.

That's one of the main reasons requests have gone so far...GT5 is simply not fun, or at least not as fun as the previous titles.

I'm not trying to pit the two against each other, I'm not trying to make this Forza vs GT, but from what I see the complaints about the lack of fun features such as livery editor or market place are much more louder then complaints about rain or night racing.
Click to expand...

Just a question you said because gt5 isnt as fun as previous titles do you think the dlc requests would have gone overboard if dlc existed say for gt4?
 
If DLC existed for GT4 the only thing I could remotely say is that people would be asking for more tracks not more cars. At least at the time it came out.

GT4 was a complete package not what looks like a half finished product.

Kind of like Sonic Generations the only thing most people ask for is more levels although it never happened I've never seen people go overboard like asking for levels that no one liked, or were poorly received.
 
SimonK
Manufacturer races.
Driving challenges.
Click to expand...

Really? We have loads of driving challenges! The "Special" events, and of coarse the seasonals! Manufacturer races are still here, obviously to a lesser extent but we do have Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Mini. They also brought back the one make/model races included in GT4's manufacturer races with the Vitz, Gallardo, TWO Miatas, Lupo, NASCAR, and FGT.
 
Manufacturer races
License's actually mattered
More Tracks to choose from
B-spec was an option not a chore
Longer Career Mode

GT5 may have more cars on the track and day and night cycles, but you hardly ever notice in the career mode. There are even a good bit of tracks in GT5 that don't get much love from the Career Mode altogether.
 
No. request didn't go to far. Most of them are not request. A lot of people wish something, bit i think they know that it'll maybe not happen.
 
thelvynau
Just a question you said because gt5 isnt as fun as previous titles do you think the dlc requests would have gone overboard if dlc existed say for gt4?
Click to expand...

Eventually, yes, only because the gap between it and GT5 was 6 years. I dont think DLC requests would have been as frequent as they are now with GT5 21 months after GT4 was released. All of GT4's cars were "premium" for the time and more relevant then GT5's car list when it was released.

gamerdog6482
Name one thing GT4 did that GT5 doesn't do.
Click to expand...

Sheer number of events. GT4 had 177 events, GT5 has 91, half as many. GT4 had 16 endurance races. GT5 has 9. 8/9 of GT5's endurance races were from previous GT games as well, making them feel even more stale.

As Zuku mentioned the 12 and rarely 16 car grids in GT5 dont matter because the game forces you to start midpack everytime. There might as well only be 8 AI in the race because you never see the others.

Theres alot of things like GT4 A-Spec points being immensly more satisfying then the level points in GT5

The problem with GT5 in a nutshell is that while it improved the simulation aspects of the game, like the physics, time change, and weather, it did almost nothing at all to improve the fun or racing aspect of it all.
 
GT4's career mode spanks GT5's behind until it's red and bleeding.

A very well-structured GT mode with a better sense of progression.

Its selection of rims is VAST and varied.
 
CorvetteConquer
GT4's career mode spanks GT5's behind until it's red and bleeding.

A very well-structured GT mode with a better sense of progression.

Its selection of rims is VAST and varied.
Click to expand...

So do you think the requests wouldnt have been extreme for gt4?
 
thelvynau
So do you think the requests wouldnt have been extreme for gt4?
Click to expand...


Not sure exactly what you're asking. Didn't post on forums much back during GT4's days.

As far as the future goes for GT mode, KY has said: If I can think of one (thing he'd like to fix), I think we should have made more A-Spec races. When you buy a car, it’s fun to be able to participate in a lot of races with that car, and I don’t think there were enough.- Kazunori Yamauchi.


From https://www.gtplanet.net/gtplanets-...cars-dlc-and-the-future-of-polyphony-digital/
 
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