Clean Run Challenge #3- 07 BMW M3 at Nurburgring GP/D (no SRF)

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Clean Run Challenge #3 2007 BMW M3 Coupe at Nurbugring GP/D
Second Race in the Online A-Spec Challenge No.3 - 3 Laps

A NO SRF Hardcore Event!

The Goal: Your fastest Total Race Time.
The Race Events are basically Time Trials with moving obstacles(AI). Most are only 3-5 laps so think of it as a longer Time Trial but with other cars on track. Most races will only last 5-10 minutes. Winning the race is not the end goal-it's the Total Race Time like the latest GT5 Seasonal Overtake Challenges.

The Rules:

1. No Driving Aids. No TCS, ABS*, ASM, SRF, Active Steering. Driving Line and Transmission Choice are optional. *(If you are new to ABS OFF and having difficulty, you may use ABS1 but note that when submitting.) There will be a separate leaderboard. Experienced no assists drivers are expected to not use ABS. Thanks.

2. Tuning Prohibited. No added parts, ballast, weight or engine stages. Brake balance is the only adjustment.

3. Tires. Sport Hards.

4. Track Rules: Only fully clean runs. 2 wheels on track at all times. Rumble strips are part of the track. The white line is the track boundary otherwise. No wall contact. No initiated AI contact. This is what will make this a REAL challenge! Avoiding other cars may be the hardest aspect. No dive bombing! Approach the driving like it's a real life track day and you have no Auto Insurance!

Note: To be clear on what constitutes a "clean" pass, we will use this rule from the GTP OLR:
B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

So if you've made a clean pass according to this rule and the AI initiates contact, that is acceptable.
In some instances a pass may be accomplished by going inside the AI if they've left sufficient room. As long as you don't initiate contact, it's clean. Just use your best judgement, this is supposed to be fun!

5. 10 Maximum Clean Runs. Restarts or dirty Runs do not count toward the total. No need to get obsessive. Winning the race is not necessary for a submission.

Specs: 2007 BMW M3 Coupe. Sport Hards
No added parts

A new premium 07 came to 423 hp 1655 kg 491pp w/ initial oil change. This will go up of course.

This is the first of our non-SRF Events. We'll be using the M3 on it's home turf against a group of foreign intruders. There's multiple lineups with different "rabbits". A short, tricky technical track that demands smooth inputs.

ABS OFF Note: If you're new to ABS OFF, this will definitely be challenging. There's several tricky brake zones that can spin your car especially Turn 1. Brake in a straight line and keep a little throttle through that turn. If it gets too frustrating use the aid. Experienced no assists drivers are expected to not use ABS. Thanks.

Here's a great guide to ABS OFF. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=267564&highlight=GUIDE+TO+no+abs

I usually run 3/1 in FR Street Cars on Sports Tires. 2/0 has been recommended for this combo.


Good Luck Everyone!
 
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MadMax86 5:09.779
MustangManiac 5:11.207
NCRthree 5:13.115
Giulietta73 5:13.771
Hanibulll 5:16.xxx
no1pal 5:18.2xx
cbcvabch 5:19.626
Machinehead 5:20.870
Both Barrels 5:21.098
Ryk 5:21.108
Woodski_427 5:21.734





ABS:
Dalone 5:17.637
Ills1999 5:18.485
Haniballl 5:20.678
 
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This is fun. I think with a bit of practice I could get first in this one. Did 5.24 for second place, almost completely clean. Got into a side by side with one of the AI round a couple of corners and although I tried to give him room he didn't reciprocate so there was a bit of bumping. If I can do a clean P1 I'll be happy. I'm still locking up all over the place and keep shunting the AI up the rear when they brake too early.
 
Not too sure my Beemer Showroom is going to like me when I return the car they let me test drive.


3tsd3v.jpg
 
this is with no tuning at all, right? (transmission, lsd or anything?).

fun track and beemers are always nice. im game.
 
Just tried doing this and my brake pedal is locking in enough to absolutely spoil my lap time - I'm having to hook my foot under the pedal at all times lest it stay locked in at least to 30 percent.

My G27 should arrive this week though so if this is still running when that turns up I'll give it another shot - as it is my wheel is un-usable in a time attack situation sadly.
 
@Uriehusky-There's no cut off time for these.

Gave the field with the Lotus Esprit "rabbit" a try. Got a 5:17.979 following him over Start/Finish. Then an oil change later and faced the Nissan Skyline 02 lineup. Won that one but dropped to a 5:18.015.

It's amazing what a tight gap the M3 can squeeze through. The AI is mostly very alert to my faster presence, allowing some passes that could have been ugly. Funny when hot lapping it's great they'll slow up.

Very easy to lockup. Once I got the brake points sorted out it's no issue. Modulation is key. Threshold braking with full initial pedal then easing up to entry speed. Sometimes pumping is needed. It makes the M3 lively to say the least!
 
@Uriehusky-There's no cut off time for these.

Awesome sauce, it's always something with me hey? :lol:

I'll throw down some laps once the wheel arrives, like I said with my brakes sticking on as they are it's impossible to set a solid lap (Heck it's hard enough when I'm trying to pass someone mid-corner and my brakes suddenly lock up)
 
5:20. BL 1:25.5.

Now there was some contact but not by me bumping anyone.

What is the recommended BB? And I use ABS1.
 
5.13.771 DS3 M/T
BL 1.44.204

ABS-0 BB 2/0 - smooth, no lock ups - I was using 3/1 but it was too unstable - I gained 3 secs per lap when I switched to 2/0.

A great event NCR:tup:

Was able to pass 6th place just after tight chicane and slip 5th all the way down the main straight on really quick run - sadly I fluffed it at the end of the main straight!

Slow in, fast out. Hairpin at 1st corner - stay a car's width wide, overtake round the outside and nail them way before turn 2. Also using manual tranny helped stablising the car around some of the long corners by dropping down a gear and just - only just - red-lining it till the accelerating out from the apex.

Turn 3 - this for me was where time was won or lost - play it right and you can get the 9th place guy here on the inside.

Replay saved. Car in quarrantine!

I can't be that quick already?!:nervous: Where's Lewis??!

I repeated the event in another brand new M3 (checking all the stipulations again) and got 5.14.xxx on my first attempt. That replay is also saved.
 
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My first attempt proved to be clean, though I was tip-toeing around to get the feel of things and I did almost spin, narrowly avoiding the cones where the D/F courses diverge. Subsequent efforts resulted in DQs for running off or hitting the AI. I found (using DS) trying to get the jump on the AI out of a corner led to tail-happy behaviour and I clipped them a couple of times. Best to forget the one where I mercilessly ploughed into the MNP Skyline at turn one after a slight braking 'misjudgment' :ouch:.

First clean (but ragged run): 5:30.411

The M3 is a great drive and very respnsive on the Sports Hard tyres, good choice 👍. I was using DS3 (triggers) with BB 5/2 and was getting a fair bit of wheelspin and a couple of lock-ups. Hopefully I'll get a rare wheel session this week :dopey:.
 
The funny thing about my terrible 5:565.1 first run, as bad and all over the place as it was, all three laps were withing like 1-2 seconds of each other. Very consistent. :D
=====
Best lap 1:45.4
vs Evos
1. 5:56.1, 12th place, DQ (I swear this has never happened to me before!)
2. 5:22.9, 2.7 sec out, DQ
3. 5:20.5, 0.7 sec out, DQ
4. 5:26.0, 4.6 sec out, DQ
====
 
I had plans to play Hit Man today, but come across this thread on my way home from work... Decided to try a couple of runs. Ended up trying (and restarting)all evening:scared:

Took out my white pearl chrystal shine M3 with 580 km on the odometer: 431bhp/494pp
I set the BB at the recommended 2/0 which actually worked pretty good 👍
Had a lot of locking-ups, especially on the main straight in to turn one. Did a lot of over-shooting there.

My first whole clean run was 5:27,3
Then I settled around 5:23 for the next three runs. It was mildly frustraiting to choose either to do hazardous overtaking, which ended in chrashing in to the bobs or getting way off of the track. Or be patient behind and loose time:crazy:
I saw that the power and PP was getting lower, so I changed oil. Ended up with 435bhp/496pp

I ended up with a best run of 5:18,2
Pretty happy about that

Great challenge NCRthree 👍
 
Thanks for the B/B Giulietta! Was able to stand on the pedal with no lockup. Took me an hour, but dropped a 5:13.115. Ran the same lineup as last night-the 1st car in grid is a sharp looking yellow TVR Griffith. He yields to the rabbit Lotus Esprit at the chicane lap 2. I passed the Lotus into turn 1 for a solo lap 3. Got 4 more tries for a 5:12. Not tonight I'm worn out.

Glad you guys are digging this one. The 3 lapper is a good length for these.
 
Nice on NCR! I'm glad someone else got into the 5.13s - I was beginning to worry that I'd chosen the wrong car or something. My first Beemer I'd set up for photomode - super soft suspension, camber, ride height etc and although I used a new setting sheet and all the changes were greyed out I couldn't help wondering if it made a difference. That's why I re-did the race in a new car.
 
Did a 5:17.637 this arvo in 1st place. 2nd car was + 3.6 sec's behind.

Alas, when I checked the replay before posting my time I found I had ridden up on the last R/H chicane with my L/h wheels both well outside the white line and on the red stripes. Bugga.
 
Did a 5:17.637 this arvo in 1st place. 2nd car was + 3.6 sec's behind.

Alas, when I checked the replay before posting my time I found I had ridden up on the last R/H chicane with my L/h wheels both well outside the white line and on the red stripes. Bugga.

The rumble strips or candy canes are part of the track and yes they are behind the white line. The white line is the track boundary everywhere else. 2 wheels on track is legal. No reason to make this harder!
 
The rumble strips or candy canes are part of the track and yes they are behind the white line. The white line is the track boundary everywhere else. 2 wheels on track is legal. No reason to make this harder!

We (you) could also nail down the 'contact' rule. When a car makes an inside move, for example, and that car's momentum doesn't carry it into the AI but it is done in such a way that the AI does not avoid hitting you, who do you flag?

Is it all good for the player so long as the AI hits you with the bumper or front fender?

Do you consider the player to initiate contact if s/he gets a little tail-happy on the pass and tags the AI with the rear quarter panel, or do you place the onus upon the AI to avoid contact once the players front bumper passes the AI's front bumper?
 
We (you) could also nail down the 'contact' rule. When a car makes an inside move, for example, and that car's momentum doesn't carry it into the AI but it is done in such a way that the AI does not avoid hitting you, who do you flag?

Is it all good for the player so long as the AI hits you with the bumper or front fender?

Do you consider the player to initiate contact if s/he gets a little tail-happy on the pass and tags the AI with the rear quarter panel, or do you place the onus upon the AI to avoid contact once the players front bumper passes the AI's front bumper?

Good questions-
1.Your first example is clean. You make a clean inside pass and have your car ahead of the AI into the apex, then the AI hits you with his front bumper-that's clean. As long as you've gotten by cleanly then you haven't initiated contact. That happened to me on my fastest run here. I'd pulled fully past the Z on the last turn lap 1 then he tapped my back bumper.

This is from the GTP OLR:
B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

2. Second example-not clean. If you've lost some control then you're at fault and have initiated the contact.

Yes, this can be(is) frustrating but that's part of the challenge. Dive bombing is not acceptable of course. Timing your passes is where the skill lies. Car control and judging distances. Trust me, it's hard. I spent an hour last night and didn't get a single clean run. I know where I need to be in the field to better my time and then push a pass too hard.
 
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That nails it down quite a bit better, thanks. I'm going to consider it a pass when my door is at their front bumper.
 
Had a good go at this a few hours ago, almost managed a very clean race apart from a moment on the 3rd lap when I clipped the rear of an AI, my fault so I couldn't count it. Shame as I did a 5:16.8xx using a DS3 and ABS 1, not great but considering I did a 5:32.xxx the 1st run it was not bad. I'll give it another go tomorrow and get a clean run in, probably...
 
Well, on my 9th run I thought I beat my best by about 4/10ths, at 5:18.018, but it turns out I had cut the corner on turn 1 lap 2 about 8 inches too tight. Was a heck of a run and I don't think I'm going to beat the 5:18.485 time. :sigh:
 
Did a few more, as consistent as I seem to be I'm not sure where I would find 7 seconds, unless I'm facing a bad lineup, but I doubt it. Perhaps I'm so focused on handling SRF and ABS off, that I'm just satisfied to have done the turns decently, and not learning from each turn, and pushing myself properly.

I got a marginal run of 5:20.870, wherein I can't say who's to blame for the contact there, perhaps both of us, I don't know. Even though I have time I've lost interest for the day at least, so that my be the closest I get to a real time. Post it with an asterisk, or don't post it, either way.

I also turned ABS up to 1 to see the difference, wouldn't come close to locking at 3,1. Something's weird with those physics for sure. Still, I'd say I prefer ABS 1 as on-road racing without ABS just seems antiquated to me.

===
Best lap 1:45.4
vs Evos
1. 5:56.1, 12th place, DQ
2. 5:22.9, 2.7 sec out, DQ
3. 5:20.5, 0.7 sec out, DQ
4. 5:26.0, 4.6 sec out, DQ
vs Griffith, Espirit
5. 5:21.0, 1.1 sec up, DQ
6. 5:20.6, DQ
7. 5:20.870, marginal
8. 5:20.1, DQ
===
 
@Machinehead- Try a B/B of 2/0 if you're having lockup issues. That's what I'm using. It's working better for me than 3/1. That was a little too touchy. It's not easy and this is a tough track to learn on. A 5:20.xxx is awesome for your first time without aids.

ABS OFF requires a more refined approach to braking. For example, bringing a car down from a high speed into turn 1 requires some pedal modulation like in a real car using threshold braking. A solid initial pedal then easing off until you get your entry speed. If you're using a FFB wheel, feel if it's locking then ease off just enough to allow it to regain grip. Vary the pedal pressure. Listen to the tires and watch the indicator. Keep a little throttle on when turning in too. It took me a good month before all that felt natural.

Read through that guide that I linked in the OP. I don't want to go into why ABS OFF is a preferred setting for many drivers in this thread.

Also,with ABS on, you can run a much higher B/B. In fact lots of folks use a higher rear setting than front for quicker turn in.
 
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