GT6: potential savior of the franchise?
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Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
PS2 sales are distorted by GT3 spending a very large amount of time given away with every PS2 in the US.
It was a much longer period than typical for in pack promotions.
It was a much longer period than typical for in pack promotions.
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Can't be arsed to look up figures right now, but I suspect the biggest competition GT has would be Forza. I think we'd probably want to look at (x) amount of GT titles sold within a specific timeframe, as compared against (y) units of Forza sold, for the same timeframe.
I do realize it's two entirely different consoles, but that I'm aware of, there aren't any other PS racing titles (that aren't just arcade racers) that have sold nearly as well as GT.
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I think PDI would be quite happy with the direction sales have gone. Quite impressive GT5s performance in that regard. Attach rate is a lot higher, highest selling GT game in Asia, and it is quite likely it will become second biggest selling GT game in Europe, behind GT4. Sure GT3 sold well but given most of its sales advantage over rest of series is most likely due to being given away when PS2 was selling like hot cakes, and it shows in the advantage it holds in NA over GT4.
I think for GT franchise to remain successful, it is more dependant on platform success than what they are doing. GT5 going by customer reviews on many different shops online, it is mainly positive so I think it is likely that PD can build on what they got in a positive way, which is highly likely, they should be in good stead. There doesn't seem to be much competition for them on their platform at the moment but if that changes then that might affect them but it would require a huge effort and money invested in a development team to compete.
I think for GT franchise to remain successful, it is more dependant on platform success than what they are doing. GT5 going by customer reviews on many different shops online, it is mainly positive so I think it is likely that PD can build on what they got in a positive way, which is highly likely, they should be in good stead. There doesn't seem to be much competition for them on their platform at the moment but if that changes then that might affect them but it would require a huge effort and money invested in a development team to compete.
Scaff
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Since when is less sales good?
Yep it cost more to develop, marketing spend has gone up (GTA) and they have just moved offiec and expand, butthey are selling less. Exactly what you want in a business.
And lowest since GT3 in overall sales (which is what counts - its not just sold in Asia or just in Europe) by over 4 million units.
And can you provide figures to show the attach rate is that much higher (by say four million units) and it doesn't get over teh fact that sales wise this gen has been problematic to say the least for PD (50% down on the last and still down on the one before that).
So GT3 sold 4 million extra units because of bundles did it? What about the 2.5 million extra that GT4 did? What about GT5 being bundled to a massive degree as well?
Spin it all you like the raw figures are that this gen has been the worst to date for PD in terms of units moved, and units moved are what shareholders care about.
You are a lot, lot more optimistic than a hell of a lot of people on this. PD need to wake up and actually focus on this next title. As it stands previously loyal customers to both Sony (as in every console on launch day) and PD (as in every GT title on launch day) are changing that stance and the decline in GT units is an indication of that.
You may want to stick your head in the sand over it, but hopefully PD actually take a good hard took at it and put out a product that is worthy of the brand.
- 4,323
I am really expecting GT5 with more content - those tracks we have been wanting from previous games and some new game types. Hopefully a revamped online system but probably it will be just window dressing on the existing sytem.
I truly hope they make a really solid and in depth A Spec, brought in realistic damage modeling for all the cars (which might mean leaving out standards?) and tied that in with improved, in depth pit options to make long races really strategic... tweak the accessbility of lots of the menus and improved load time dramatically.
That would essentially make it what GT5 should have been in my book.
Of course toss in a bunch of eye candy, extra featuers etc (I would love to see the 3D settings made more accessible... like let me adjust in game live and also let there be a setting saved for each view as each view kind of needs it's own convergence settings etc)...
Oh yeah and this will rile some feathers - throw rewind in there. I got plenty of friends who never get to enjoy the driving experience of GT5 because they get frustrated with the steep learning curve. Shrink down that curve a bit...
I truly hope they make a really solid and in depth A Spec, brought in realistic damage modeling for all the cars (which might mean leaving out standards?) and tied that in with improved, in depth pit options to make long races really strategic... tweak the accessbility of lots of the menus and improved load time dramatically.
That would essentially make it what GT5 should have been in my book.
Of course toss in a bunch of eye candy, extra featuers etc (I would love to see the 3D settings made more accessible... like let me adjust in game live and also let there be a setting saved for each view as each view kind of needs it's own convergence settings etc)...
Oh yeah and this will rile some feathers - throw rewind in there. I got plenty of friends who never get to enjoy the driving experience of GT5 because they get frustrated with the steep learning curve. Shrink down that curve a bit...
- 178
- California
This is pretty much how I feel. I want it to move forward, show other games how to f'n make a badass racing sim AND and game, blow them out of the water, cater to all types of racing styles (drift, rally, drag, track racing) be on top of how to make a sim 'fun'.
Even though a lot of you know how I pin pointed all the faults and just unsatisfied with GT5 as a whole, it's only because I want it to be the franchise to remain successful, I want it to live, this game taught me about cars when I was 11 and thank PD for doing that.
Because of GT1 my older brother fell in love with Evos and 5 years ago bought his dream car he always wanted, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX (oh it's fast hehe).
I'm rooting for it inside SO MUCH but I have little hope it will be that game I just described...
- 6,694
- Mexico City
- MoLieG
I've said this quite a few times on this site....GT6 is probably going to make or break the future of the series.
Another poor title = lol uh oh. Another solid title = GT5, what? Let's move on.
Features I am going to keep an eye out for in GT6:
Livery editor?
Missing classic tracks added?
Different/new approach to A-Spec?
Improved online experience?
Improved sound design?
Strengthened A.I.?
Premium RUFs? (among other manufacturers)
I'd add:
Improved Customization Options (Rims, performance Parts, Aerokits, RM Cars, Engine swaps)
Improved car line up (less japanese cars, more modern cars, more manufacturers)
If GT6 is another "decent" game, I'm not even going to bother buying it...
- 4,539
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- racingheartruby
- RubyWooby
A bit of a digger, but I'd like to quote this.
Take it from a kid: many of my friends and their friends' friends are now into the FPS genre. If you'd go into a school, you can ask any kid what is their favorite game, and around 3/4 of the time, it'll be in the FPS genre. Even though video games aren't just played by kids ages 5-17, they make a considerable amount of the community. It could be different elsewhere or with older groups, but it's kind of safe to say that FPS dominates with the children, and has dethroned driving in most areas.
Take it from a kid: many of my friends and their friends' friends are now into the FPS genre. If you'd go into a school, you can ask any kid what is their favorite game, and around 3/4 of the time, it'll be in the FPS genre. Even though video games aren't just played by kids ages 5-17, they make a considerable amount of the community. It could be different elsewhere or with older groups, but it's kind of safe to say that FPS dominates with the children, and has dethroned driving in most areas.
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It clearly exceeded their expectations on the sales front. You have to be realistic and if you look in context, GT5 did an amazing job regarding sales.
That is happening for all the top franchises regarding expenditure. Look at GTA series for example. Sold less so far but development costs must have skyrocketed compared to PS2 days. GT is still number one selling Sony owned IP, it hits big numbers for every game released so far.
Well GT3 did do exceptionally well in NA compared to any other in the series, I wonder why...
It has been far from problematic, I think a lot of developers would love to have PDIs problems. Many well known development teams have been closed down this generation. This generation of consoles is also not over with yet, so we can potentially see a new GT game.
GT3 sold over 5.5million extra units by the way, not just 4 so don't know why you keep on saying 4 million.
GT5 is still selling, so might get closer to GT4 and go ahead of GT2. Anyway quite impressive when you consider how dominant the PS2 was compared to PS3 now is regarding market share and number of consoles sold.
I don't think shareholders view things in such a small scope, if they are that worried by what a bad job PDI are doing then I think we would see Kaz in less control now. I think Sony are quite happy with how well GT is doing as a franchise given how much of a struggle it has been for a number of their other development studios.
There is probably a lot more people more optimistic than me regarding next GT game. Next GT game would show us where PDI really are. There has been a lot of suggestions sent to PDI about GT. I think there is probably a number of people who want to see GT fail on here, but given the amount of fans feedback as well as getting a GT Academy Winner helping out on physics and stuff like that, I think I can be optimistic. They also already have done the base and with a bigger development team now working on evolving that, it could improve in big steps quite quickly.
PS4 success is more important to GT series future I think than some people who are going to jump ship. If Sony capture more people from the other side, then I think for a flagship franchise, it will mean more sales than a few people moving to a console brand that is in decline. Will have to wait a while to see how well the new systems do first however, but there is a lot of negativity around Microsoft's next console and that might be in a similar context to the next GT game to some people without knowing much about it. Both could do a good job to convince people who have gone off console / franchise to want it again. Might find out a lot more about console gaming future soon as next month.
Jubby
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I would respectfully argue a few points to the above data, Scaff.
1. The PS2 included 2 major titles when the GT series had a huge following whereas the PS3 has only had 1 major title.
2. The price point for these games were much lower for the PS2 and with the economy struggling, it is conceivable that it has accounted for a small and significant (material) loss in sales for the PS3. This would be either because people cannot afford the game, or are price pointed out of the console.
3. The amount of time lapsed is immense on GT3 (12 years) and large on GT4 (8 years) in a gaming sense. PS2 titles are still being sold as new so it can continue to build, albeit at an extremely slow rate. We see folks even within our community seeking titles from the PS2 today. (As an aside, I wonder if these sales figures includes used title sales at major retail outlets, but I suspect not). Sales per title per elapsed year builds a different argument.
I would say two titles at 25 million, 12.5 million per title over 6 years (conservatively) would not exceed one title at 9 million over the last 2.5 years in a down-turned economy.
To the point of the OP: I think GT6 will be a reclamation for Polyphony Digital in terms of money. Yes, they will be making a quality product (regardless of the faults), and yes, they'll be doing what they can, but I do not think that they will be making the same mistakes they made in GT5. In this way, they will not need to spend thousands of man-hours in "fixing" the product, making way for profits. I think it would be interesting to see the true figures of whether they made a profit or loss on GT5 overall at this point. Based on the way the gaming industry is and how many people have to have their hand in it (retailers for one) I wouldn't be surprised if they pushed up GT6 just to make a profit on this platform generation. It will be doubled (potentially falsely) as a reclamation project for us fans unless there are leaps and bounds made to correct the "wrongs" that consumers perceived in GT5.
I agree that if GT6 is not seen or perceived as a better title, the series could be looking on a downward trend as the casual or marginal fan will move away and the die-hard fan (including myself) may start losing faith or interest.
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GT5 is most likely one of the highest profitable games this generation.
I'm not surprised to learn this.
When I had teenagers, I was surprised to discover their lack of interest in obtaining a drivers' license, compared to when I was their age, and it didn't seem to be just them.
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That's how I see it as well, especially when reading some posts that's just want GT gone because they believe GT will never evolve... And the rest of what you've said, is excatly true, because Lucas himself said he was helping with GT6's physics and said something about helping with track choices as well.
Also. In Kazunori Yamauchi Tweets thread (which he's on Facebook now it seems) went to visit K&W which in fact is a suspension company posted by a GTP member who he shared some photos with us that Kaz himself posted. Kaz must have went to K&W to collect data to make a suspension model for GT6 probably. That's why I'm also optimistic about GT6 is going to be successful.
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- Jump_Ace
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Now adays, kids have facebook and twitter on their phone/everywhere they go. They no longer need to gather their friends in a car to go somewhere to talk and hang out. They do it all from their phones now...thats my hypothesis anyway.
As for GT6, well, I'm at a tipping point in the racing genre (especially true for GT) where I'm not as interested. I don't like racing on my computer because I have a small monitor and I hate it when the system restarts because of overheating (and of course I don't want to upgrade my 'old' dual-core desktop either). So iracing and the like is out. Forza is a great series, but there aren't too many tracks and the career mode championships are the same races over and over and over.
And like GT, racing online, I'm hit with the harsh reality that console drivers are casual gamers (usually) and don't take pride in their driving, resulting in dirtier races.
Then there's GT5 with SRF (even mandatory in license tests?!?) and it shortcomings we all know about....
I have to say that with GT6, it will be a big hit (imo) and I'll continue to love racing. Or, it will fall flat and likely lose interest in the seriies/genre for a very long time.
Jerome
- 178
- California
We don't want it 'gone' but we are wanting more than a prettier, better driving GT1. The only reason I bought GT5 was because how the driving physics improved or 'evolved'. I didn't know anything about the game outside the GT5 demo that showed off the graphics, premium cars, and amazing physics.
After I bought it I fell in love with it but that went away quickly after experiencing how shallow GT mode was. One thing after another just bugged me and after a month I quit. I didn't start playing until 3 months ago after my brother bought the steering wheel and the updates improved so much to the game but it's still lacking in a lot of area but I could play it longer than 1 month now.
GT6 can't survive on graphics and physics alone, the 'game' part needs to be the focus, it needs to 'evolve'.
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This. I fear that Kazunori allows his eccentric mind to focus too much on the simulation aspect (as other areas are ignored or untouched or even DOWNGRADED).
Yes, it's called the Real Driving Simulator. But damnit, it's also still a video game. Let's keep the physics top-knotch but also cater to other features that a car/racing VIDEO GAME should possess.
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Like what? Customizing? Livery Editor? I just want GT6 to be something like GT2 and GT4 in one with more Customizing, Livery Editor, Autolog-like feature, more cars, more tracks, better physics and better engine sounds. The final touch that PD needs to add for GT6, is make it fun. That's about it with everything hopefully improved.
That IMO, will evolve the series.
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Percentage-wise, I doubt it - something like Limbo or another small, indie shoestring-budget game would have a much higher return than a game that spent half a decade in production paying over one hundred employees.
...
It's no great secret GT5 has met with less critical success than the previous games, and that could arguably be just as much a product of increased competition as it is the state of the game itself. To "save" the franchise (in reality, just turn the tides back towards the increased level of critical acclaim the entire rest of the series enjoyed) is one of the main arguments I can see for a PS4 game next; wow folks in a way a PS3 game couldn't, especially on the year the new consoles hit.
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- maxpontiac
I see your point about the reviews and to be honest, I don't much care for critics and rarely do they influence my decisions.
It's obvious that millions of others don't depend on critics either.
If you want to take that route, you must realize that NOTHING is guaranteed. Now while I believe that GT as a series needs to be careful for the next game, they are in much better shape then most developers.
I believe GT6 will do fine on the sales front and that is because 9 million purchases is significantly higher then pretty much everything. Even if GT6 sold half as much, it would still be better than most if not all sim racing games.
So you say. Going by that logic, you might as well as say any studio that has a game that sells less 5 million copies is doomed. What about those games that sell only 1 million copies?
Fair enough, but consider the amount of unhappy players vs the total amount of games sold. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that most GT5 players don't post anywhere.
Yes, and Gran Turismo's history is littered with at minimum 9 million copies per full GT game as well.
Well, considering that there are only a FEW games out there that even come to close to 9 million copies sold each full game, how do you come to any conclusion other then one that is influenced by personal opinions? You can't.
Truth remains that Gran Turismo has dominated the sim-racing-game market for 15 years.
Yes, and competition for GT has become very serious. But yet, here we have an alledged "poor" GT game still dominating the charts.
Both the PS1 and PS2 featured two full GT games. Come back and see if the PS3 gets GT6.
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Most of that is not evolving, that's just adding stuff.
More cars in GT6 won't make a dent with gameplay, neither will more tracks, Livery Editor, sounds and customizing. Unless they do something else to immerse you with the actually racing then all that is just extra fluff.
GT6 could have 3000 customizable cars and 300 tracks but if the actual GT mode is still boring with no sense of accomplishment and the A.I. is still on rails with no brain then the extra stuff you want goes to waste and you lose interest quick.
With all that, the rep for PD goes down and the GT name starts to get known as the sim racing that used to be the best.
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All I got out of that are two problems, A.I. and a proper career mode.
Let's be real, there isn't much to evolve in a racing game other than those two aspects. However, having a proper career mode and initiative A.I are two huge parts so I'll agree to that.
I will disagree though on that other bit, because evolving a franchise shouldn't be restricted to just "gameplay." Adding customizations, a bunch of new cars, tracks, may be fluffs but they're important to the overall "experience." Imagine great "gameplay" without content... boring, like a demo.
Let's be real, there isn't much to evolve in a racing game other than those two aspects. However, having a proper career mode and initiative A.I are two huge parts so I'll agree to that.
I will disagree though on that other bit, because evolving a franchise shouldn't be restricted to just "gameplay." Adding customizations, a bunch of new cars, tracks, may be fluffs but they're important to the overall "experience." Imagine great "gameplay" without content... boring, like a demo.
- 178
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There a few good ideas (you made one) that can easily push the series forward and other games that do the simplest ideas that take advantage of all the tracks and the cars. I like how Grid is, there are many games out there that do racing better than GT5.Then what do you have in mind for GT6 to in evolve in?Other racing games has these type of ideas don't they? I attempted it and somehow failed?
Btw forgot about the A.I.
Maybe PD just needs to copy a feature or two from them and start creating new one (please no more level system). Anything can work but the thing I don't want is the same thing I've been playing since 1997 (1998?), I had enough...
Edit: daus26, the 'fluff' is important, everything should be important. Gotta remember it's still a game and I want to progress in one, GT5 didn't make me feel like I did at all.
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