A new interview with KY!
- Thread starter alba
- 27 comments
- 2,665 views
very good read.
I guess it now settles the Car Damage/manufacturer's choice; finally.
I must admit i feel a bit uneasy about the whole "some cars will not support damage. I somehow do not understand this... since they support damage in other driving games? (TD:U, FM2, NFSseries...) we're even talking Ferrari, lambo, Astin Martin, Porsche, Audi, Mercs... which car companies are we talking about here?
I guess it now settles the Car Damage/manufacturer's choice; finally.
I must admit i feel a bit uneasy about the whole "some cars will not support damage. I somehow do not understand this... since they support damage in other driving games? (TD:U, FM2, NFSseries...) we're even talking Ferrari, lambo, Astin Martin, Porsche, Audi, Mercs... which car companies are we talking about here?
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Since Gran Turismo deals with many more cars than any other series they also deal with many more manufacturers. Some manufacturers build their reputation around safety. Also, some have a limit to what they will allow. I can see others, like say VW, that have a huge focus on how much it will protect the driver in an accident that they may want crashes on their cars to be designed to reflect their safety features. But of course, how much fun is it to have a chain reaction accident and find yourself surround by airbags from every conceivable side?
Kaz said that he is trying to find a balance between realism and fun. The point he is trying to reach might not be as agreeable with some manufacturers as other games.
- 2,576
- Australia
- J-PaP
while its true most in most other series all other cars are shown to have damage no other game looks so realistic. so manufacturers may feel firstly that with a game that looks arcady damage will not matter as much compared to one that looks realistic.
personally i'm not to worried if damage is not included even as an update in gt5. i'm more so concerned that the damage will not look real/work realistically and ruin the game as kaz has mentioned. however i think if damage is to be implemented and limited in what cars can be damaged it might be best to limit it to only race cars.
Yeah indeed, damage on only a few cars sucks. If you implement damage in your game, every car should be able to get damage. The car manufacturers should have more respect for games, and see it as free advertisement for ther cars.
At the moment the gamestudio's have to ask the car manufacturers and in most cases pay a ****load of money. It should be the other way around, car manufacturers should pay the gamestudio's to get ther cars in a game. And if they wont want damage on the cars than they should be refused.
- 46
- Pop_Is_Dead_UK
- PopIsDeadUK
Im not bothered about a damage model that allows us to see damage to the car. I would much prefer a proper damage model that affects the cars handling, acceleration, top speed, etc!
That where the realism is, not how the car looks. Forza boasts it has a damage engine, but its not very good at all. You can slam into walls and nothing happens to the car, bar a small dent and a light pops.
Not realistic at all.
That where the realism is, not how the car looks. Forza boasts it has a damage engine, but its not very good at all. You can slam into walls and nothing happens to the car, bar a small dent and a light pops.
Not realistic at all.
- 7,588
- Whateversville
- Flerbizky
You think ? ;-)
- 6,098
- Simcoeace
For me most important thing is collision physics - how the car reacts when it contacts other cars - this is what makes the racing feel realistic & discourages overly aggressive driving. Secondly, the mechanical effects of damage on the car's performance - also punishes overly aggressive driving. Thirdly, visible damage - it always looks strange when the car hit things & doesn't show any signs of damage.
Although it would be nice to have "realistic damage" - major crashes, roll-overs etc., I think the limited Forza model is acceptable. F1:CE features many race-ending impacts, but with practice it leads to more cautious, realistic driving. It is important, however, that the AI is also programmed to drive in a realistically cautious way.
Although it would be nice to have "realistic damage" - major crashes, roll-overs etc., I think the limited Forza model is acceptable. F1:CE features many race-ending impacts, but with practice it leads to more cautious, realistic driving. It is important, however, that the AI is also programmed to drive in a realistically cautious way.
I totally agree with your Forza comment. Although mostly visual (although it does affect the car's behavior as well), i think the important aspect of the car damage is to be able to judge if the car in front of you is beat up or not; which in turn will affect your strategy in overtaking it or dealing with it in corners and stuff. I don't think PD are aiming at a "Burnout (the game)" level of damage. Something similar to FM2 would be good enough.
Spoilers flying off, scratches, bent doors and broken lights is good enough to "show" that the car is actually damaged. Most of the damage only needs to be internal anyways (read: car behavior).
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
If He-Man taught us anything it is that damage does not have to be realistic if we have imaginations.
Nice interview. You gotta love when he gets asked about realisim, and immediatly reffers to realisim in the form of damage (the interviewer)... cause you know, car handling physics are perfect... -_-;
I'd much rather see PD spend time making the perfect driving experience than worrying about car damage at this point, in the future they'll go hand in hand once we get 100% realistic physics, but we're not there yet.
I gotta say i'm a bit worried that he thinks 1080p is so important... it's not.
All you have to do is look at crysis in 720p and compare it to say.. bioshock in 1080p.
Crysis still looks a LOT better than bioshock even if it's running at half the res.
if PD used that extra fillrate on more shaders, GT5 could look even better than it does right now. (though i doubt the RSX is powerful enough to make lightning effects as realistic as the ones in Crysis even at 720p.)
It is surprising that it's been 4 years since GT4 came out... i hadn't thought of that at all, maybe they DID take a break after GT4.
He does seem to be under Sony's pressure though, with his comment about how 1080p is next gen and 720p on the 360 isn't...
that's a pretty bad comment, the Wii comment is well founded as it's an obsolete piece of hardware that is being sold as if it's something new. But the 360 can hold it's own just fine against the PS3, the Cell is the only real advantage Sony has over the 360, and thankfully PD is using it very well.
Man, it'd be awsome to go on one of those tours to their offices.
I'd much rather see PD spend time making the perfect driving experience than worrying about car damage at this point, in the future they'll go hand in hand once we get 100% realistic physics, but we're not there yet.
I gotta say i'm a bit worried that he thinks 1080p is so important... it's not.
All you have to do is look at crysis in 720p and compare it to say.. bioshock in 1080p.
Crysis still looks a LOT better than bioshock even if it's running at half the res.
if PD used that extra fillrate on more shaders, GT5 could look even better than it does right now. (though i doubt the RSX is powerful enough to make lightning effects as realistic as the ones in Crysis even at 720p.)
It is surprising that it's been 4 years since GT4 came out... i hadn't thought of that at all, maybe they DID take a break after GT4.
He does seem to be under Sony's pressure though, with his comment about how 1080p is next gen and 720p on the 360 isn't...
that's a pretty bad comment, the Wii comment is well founded as it's an obsolete piece of hardware that is being sold as if it's something new. But the 360 can hold it's own just fine against the PS3, the Cell is the only real advantage Sony has over the 360, and thankfully PD is using it very well.
Man, it'd be awsome to go on one of those tours to their offices.
That's an interesting comment... although a bit inaccurate. The reason Shaders exist is to simulate effects and "fillrate" (so to speak). It creates effect where there is not enough rendering power to make them native off the engine. That's how Quake3 introduced so much EyeCandy from their engine at the time.
As for Crysis and Bioshock, i think Bioshock looks a lot better in terms of textural detail then Crysis. Don't be fooled by the super nice beaches and cool ocean effects... the engine can't render more then 3-4 lights at one time and the Texture memory is so sparce it needs to stream content every so seconds. Bioshock is based of Unreal and loads its whole package in one lot, allowing for far more memory usage on the cpu. It can run close to 30 lights at the same time, plus perhaps a few dynamic lights here and there (which Crysis cannot do). Its all EyeCandy and "Magic" rather then pure engine power.
As for 1080p vs 720p... there's a hell of a difference in image quality and surprisingly, not that much processing power is needed to go up to 1080p. Usually its the engine that just doesn't take it well. The main difference comes from how well the console actually runs it out of the box. The 360 doesn't do 1080p Native, while the PS3 does. So i totally understand what he means by the PS3 being superior.
Anyways, i'm glad of their decisions, its the right ones so far.
That's a nice interview. I really like it. I especially love those places were Kaz admits that he is a perfectionist (as we all know it's true). He's brilliant! Some people hate but I really admire perfectionists and I have to mention that Kazunori Yamauchi is my idol! Hopefully some day I can be half as good as he is. I am quite sure it's not possible to be as passionate about and concentrated on sth like Kaz is when it comes to Gran Turismo. He has been dealing with this series for 15 years and he is not losing interest, willing nor passion at all. He already knows that there will be GT6 and I guess he has an image of it in his mind already. Gran Turismo is almost his life!
Some time ago I was a bit disappointed in Polyphony and Gran Turismo because of the delays but now I completely understand them. It's not possible to create sth perfect within a short period of time, in process like game development you must take your time...after developing, designing and all that stuff there is testing and during the testing time there are not only mistakes to eliminate but some new ideas might pop out of your head (this might happen already during the development) and you just need to use them. Of course the development process itself might take much longer than it seems at the beginning. And when one car model takes half an year to create and one course twice as much (for one designer) then it's obvious that huge game like Gran Turismo 5 can't be completed in a couple of years (at least not with the human resource that Polyphony has - ~90 people).
Some time ago I was a bit disappointed in Polyphony and Gran Turismo because of the delays but now I completely understand them. It's not possible to create sth perfect within a short period of time, in process like game development you must take your time...after developing, designing and all that stuff there is testing and during the testing time there are not only mistakes to eliminate but some new ideas might pop out of your head (this might happen already during the development) and you just need to use them. Of course the development process itself might take much longer than it seems at the beginning. And when one car model takes half an year to create and one course twice as much (for one designer) then it's obvious that huge game like Gran Turismo 5 can't be completed in a couple of years (at least not with the human resource that Polyphony has - ~90 people).
- 302
I think that damage part in the interview is pretty much the same things Kazunori has been repeating in nearly every interview all along the past year. He has said many times already "there will be damage", but the evidence is still missing so all quiet on the Western Front.
- 1,238
- RocketPunch1221
- RRoD? no thanks.
I like how he talked about realistic damage and how he need to think of a way to achieve balance. It is very easy for people to yell and moan about not having realistic damages, yet those are probably the exact same cry babies that will scream and curse when they crash into a wall an ended their race in turn one. However good GT5 will be, developer will have to find the balance to determine a level of gameplay that pleases their most hardcore customers yet be accessible enough for more casual gamers.
A very simple solution would be the level of damages is adjustable and can even be tie into the existing modes like in simulation mode for the most realistic damage.
A very simple solution would be the level of damages is adjustable and can even be tie into the existing modes like in simulation mode for the most realistic damage.
- 177
- Darth Turismo
not entirely.... at least this time he has been more forthcoming with the reasons he is procrastinating over it..... i thk he is right... u do need to get a good balance between fun and frustrating with realism (not just visual) in order for the playing to be satisfying yet enjoyable.
Having said that he should have a setting.... one for hardcore and the other for user friendly.... if hardcore setting totals your car when u bump the walls of daytona at 300kph then so be it.... if u chose hardcore setting u know what you're getting yourself into!!
just like others here, id love to be able to visit them and see their testing... provide user feedback!
Honestly in my own opinion, i'm so used to GT not having damage..that I don't even want it in GT5. I know its cool, its "realistic" because I like to drive into walls.
I think damage will cause more frustration then enjoyment.
You start off a race and you get bumped by a car into the side railings, there goes your front end you have to restart or repair.
I think that Kaz is doing a bang up job with his vision on the series. I find it amazing that it takes so much time to model a car. If each car takes 6 months to model by one person, and you assign a staff of lets say 60 people to design a car....well no wonder it's taking time to release the final game.Kudos to them.
I think damage will cause more frustration then enjoyment.
You start off a race and you get bumped by a car into the side railings, there goes your front end you have to restart or repair.
I think that Kaz is doing a bang up job with his vision on the series. I find it amazing that it takes so much time to model a car. If each car takes 6 months to model by one person, and you assign a staff of lets say 60 people to design a car....well no wonder it's taking time to release the final game.Kudos to them.
i agree with you, a man devoted 15 years to racing gameswow
and i thought it was 100 people in the team
but one question, how come he wont employee a bit more handful of talented workers to speed up the progress. other companies have 200 workers and still make good games.
To be honest I have no idea...
But as you know general rule is that more employees you have more salaries you have to pay. It normally shouldn't be a big problem for Polyphony Digital, at least not to hire only a handful of talented designers...
However, Polyphony hadn't released any full games after Gran Turismo 4 (and Tourist Trophy) till GT5P's launch last week so they might not be in a best financial condition right now. Fact that their capital is only 10 million Yen ($88339, 61497, £44299) as it's said on Polyphony Digital Inc.'s web site only alleges that. But yeah, I guess it's worth more in Japan than it is here...and they are also probably suported by Sony.
Last but not least, happy birthday to you, Krzysztof!!!
Your comments about 1080p and 720 confuse me... the PS3 doesn't have enough fillrate for 1080p unless they sacrfice a lot of fillrate that could be better used elsewhere, it's one of the reasons it's 1280x1080 and not 1920x1080, in my opinion they should've just gone the extra mile, squeezed more effects out of the RSX and just stuck to 720p entirely.
the RSX isn't really superior to the Xbox 360's ATi chip. (i think it's slightly better at shaders the RSX, but kinda defeats the purpose if you sacrifice so much fillrate just increasing the resolution.)
The big difference between the ps3 and xbox 360 is the CPU, they are pertty evenly matched on the video chip.
Sure, we could have 1080p for any engine that isn't heavy on truly next-gen shaders, but it's not worth it, you can get a better looking engine sacrificing resolution.
MagpieRacer
Premium
- 17,525
- Wymondham, Norfolk
- Seagull_Racer
I would settle with a simalair damage model to Forza 2. Its not brilliantly realistic or anything but it can stuff your races up, and gives you quite a satisfying crunch when you lose the back at 200mph on the nissan speedway!
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