Making it work - 5.1 Home Theater

Beerz · Feb 22, 2008

That's right.
Never gome beyond stereo speakers until now, and even those were a long time ago. I've been living out of TV speakers for way too long.

My living room is about 20m2 (about 215ft2), so it's a small room (it's a small apartment too - about 100m2). As such, huge power is unnecessary.
Budget isn't much, I was thinking of spending a max of 800 (about USD $1050) on it - a tad more, if it's worth it.
If anyone knows of a decent out-of-the-box combo for 400 or 500, great. I don't have to blow the whole budget. Or a separate set that I can buy, even if the A/V is from one brand, central speaker from another, etc... You guys know a lot better than me. 👍
Regarding prices, and for those living in the US, take the 800 as USD $800, as electronics is more expensive in EU (in comparison) and the EURO is pretty high, which doesn't help either.

My main doubts/questions (sorry if they're stupid, I really don't know):

Does the A/V receiver have to be equipped with HDMI for me to play/watch movies on the PS3 and view them in HD (I currently have a 32" SDTV, but will be getting a HD model in the nar future)?

Is a model that is capable of 7.1 worth it for the use I'm giving it, especially considering I'd have to buy 2 more speakers?

I've looked on a store near where I live, but I'm getting old and forgot the models and stuff, only thing I remember was these Pioneer CS-3070 frontal speakers that were very reasonably priced (although a bit bigger than I was looking for, but if those or any other that size are worth it, I'm all for it).

As you see, I'm completely lost and totally open for suggestions/advices.
Thanks in advance, guys. :cheers:

the Interceptor · Feb 22, 2008

It's 4 am, I just came home from work, so here's all I can give at the moment: a thread that'll probably help.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=101314

TB · Feb 22, 2008

First off I think we need to know which direction you're planning on going, if you know at this point in the game.

If you're planning on going incredibly simple and inexpensive, give one like this a look.

If something a bit more upscale is your thing, then there are even more options. I'm currently pretty enamored with numerous Onkyo systems, mainly this one.

As far as speakers, I'm not nearly up to date on those as I used to be, so I won't be much help there. What I can say is, in my opinion, the difference between 6.1 and 7.1 is pretty minimal. However, the difference between 5.1 and 6.1 is huge. I've had both and having that extra speaker directly behind you completely fills in the dead spot that 5.1 has.

Granted this is only a start, but hopefully it helps somewhat.

Scaff · Feb 22, 2008

Beerz

To answer your questions first off, the reciever does not have to accept HDMI for you to be able to get a HD or surround sound. Most set-ups in your price range would be looking at a HDMI link between the PS3 and the HDTV (taking care of the audio side of things) and an optical link between the PS3 and the amp (taking care of the audio side of things). You can get amps that will handle both audio and video via HDMI, but would almost certainly be outside the budget you are looking at.

In regard to 5.1 vs 6.1 vs 7.1, well in all honest the more the better, BUT that would spread any budget for speakers even thiner which at this stage is not a good idea. I would personally rate a well set-up 5.1 system with good speakers above a poorly set-up 6.1 or 7.1 with a poor speaker set-up. Given the size of your room a 5.1 set-up to start would be the direction I would take.

On the single box kit vs seperates I would always recomend the seperates approach, not only will you normally get a much better sound out of it, but it gives you scope to expand and upgrade in the future. The only advantage that single box kits (arguably) have is that they are easier to set-up.

800 euros works out at around £600, so I'm going to work with that figure, a couple of bits you could look at include...

Amps
Onkyo HTR 508 (£200)- http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3490
Sony STR-DG710 (£220) - http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3622
Onkyo TXSR505 (£250) - http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3350

The Sony I have and can vouch for the sound and build quality, its also supports 6.1, so you could add an extra rear speaker at a later date if needed. The Onkyo 505 has won many awards and could be expanded to 7.1 at a later date. Either of these two would be a great choice.

Speakers
Tannoy SFX 5.1 (£250) - http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3804
KEF KHT 1005 (£250) - http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=KEF-KHT1005
Wharfedale Diamond 9 (£400) - http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/2210

A few choices here from the very compact Tannoys and KEF's, to the mid-size Wharfedales.

Combined amps and speaker packages you effectively have a price range of between £450 (508 and Tannoys/KEF) and £650 (505 and Diamond 9's), and it should give you a few choices to think about, however keep in mind that you will need to budget for interconnects and speaker cables. Any cable that carries an analogue signal (speakers, phone to phone, scart, etc) will reward you with better quality for a better cable. Anything carring a digital signal (HDMI and Optical) is not subject to signal loss to the same degree at all and generally no difference will be seen between cheap and expensive cables.

If it was my £600 I would go for the Onkyo 505 and Diamond 9's package, the amp is one of the best around in its price range (and I wish it had been out when I bought my Sony) and the Diamond 9's have an excellent reputation as an entry level speaker (yes I know its over the budget - but its worth it).

Hope that helps get you started.

Regards

Scaff

Beerz · Feb 22, 2008

Ok, so I went searching (both on stores near my house and on the internet, but not in this order) and here are some preliminar results...

TB - When you mean 'which direction you're planning on going', you mean what use will I give this, or if I'm planning of upgrading in the future?

I searched for what The Interceptor suggested on one post on that link, and:
JBL Control 1X - I could only find the 'Control 1', not the 1X, and even these were only available on one store. They're €139,98 each pair.

JBL Venue 10" - Couldn't just find them anywhere here, even searching on national websites.

Yamaha HTR-5930 - Same as above... :rolleyes:

The system TB pointed out:
SONY HT-SS2000 - Same as last two above, couldn't find it anywhere nor on national websites. However,Amazon.com has it currently at $349,99.

As suggested by Scaff:
ONKYO HTR508 – See above (starting to see a pattern here...)

SONY STR-DG710 – Ok, found this one on a few stores (FINALLY!!!)
Cheapest one running at €260 (€289 with HDMI+optical cables) + €13,90 shipping

ONKYO TXSR505E – Also found this one (though only in one store), running at €271 (pretty cool, huh?) - the silver model, as the exact same model in black costs €365(!!!) + €18 for shipping

TANNOY SFX 5.1 – Absolutely nothing on these.

KEF KHT 1005 – Only one store carries these, at €562 + €19 for shipping.

Now, about the
WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 9 – First of all, there are A LOT of different designations, either for center speakers and especially for the pairs (9.0, 9.1, etc., etc, ad eternum)...
But these were actually the ones I could find more easily, as quite a few stores have them.
Scaff, which ones were you refering to?
I've found them individually (posting lowest prices):
9.CS - €118.16
9.CC - €102.85
9.0(pair) - €116,62
9.1(pair) - €169
9.2(pair) - €167,02
SW150(sub) - €245,52
Power Cube 8(sub, is it worth it?) - €157,83.

I also found this:
Pack WHARFEDALE AVI-9.0 - running at €575,60
which has:
Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 (x4)
Wharfedale Diamound 9.CS (x1)
Subwoofer SW150 (x1)

I'm still totally open to any advices or suggestions, mind you. Don't have my mind set on anything definite yet.
What do you guys make out of what is available, and pricing found?

Scaff · Feb 23, 2008

The WHARFEDALE AVI-9.0 pack you found is exactly the same as the one I linked to, it must just be know under that name in Portugal, its a first rate kit (the SW150 sub is a much better bet than the power cube - the SW150 actually got a budget sub award in the UK last year) and the price is still below the normal retail. In all honesty its a great set of speakers for the money, and from an excellent manufacturer. The price you found for the KEF's is expensive and certainly more than I would pay for them.

That the Onkyo 508 is not available doesn't surprise me, as its an older model. So between the 710 and 505, the prices on both are good,particularly for the silver 505. If you can live with the silver finish it a bit of a bargain at what would be £205, the price of the black 505 is over the retail price (£275 vs £250). If a black finish is a must then the Sony 710 would be well worth going for, but the 505 is a better amp and would give you more options for future upgrades and expansion.

At €846 (£636) for the Onkyo 505 and the Wharfedale AVI-9.0 pack you would be damn close to budget (of course you would have to look at cables) and would have a damn fine Home Cinema set-up. It would certainly be better than any single box set-up, and totally open up your film collection and most importantly (for you I know) give you that edge in COD4.

Regards

Scaff

TB · Feb 23, 2008

Beerz
TB - When you mean 'which direction you're planning on going', you mean what use will I give this, or if I'm planning of upgrading in the future?

Some people don't want the "hassle", if you will, of buying multiple items. They want decent sound, but only out of one box. Myself, I like buying everything separate. My question was presented to see which type of person you are, thus why I went with the two recommendations above - one from each category.

That said, in part, it could also be what you said - room for upgrades in the future. One box - not all that many options, obviously.

Beerz · Feb 23, 2008

Scaff
The WHARFEDALE AVI-9.0 pack you found is exactly the same as the one I linked to, it must just be know under that name in Portugal, its a first rate kit (the SW150 sub is a much better bet than the power cube - the SW150 actually got a budget sub award in the UK last year) and the price is still below the normal retail. In all honesty its a great set of speakers for the money, and from an excellent manufacturer. The price you found for the KEF's is expensive and certainly more than I would pay for them.

That the Onkyo 508 is not available doesn't surprise me, as its an older model. So between the 710 and 505, the prices on both are good,particularly for the silver 505. If you can live with the silver finish it a bit of a bargain at what would be £205, the price of the black 505 is over the retail price (£275 vs £250). If a black finish is a must then the Sony 710 would be well worth going for, but the 505 is a better amp and would give you more options for future upgrades and expansion.

At €846 (£636) for the Onkyo 505 and the Wharfedale AVI-9.0 pack you would be damn close to budget (of course you would have to look at cables) and would have a damn fine Home Cinema set-up. It would certainly be better than any single box set-up, and totally open up your film collection and most importantly (for you I know) give you that edge in COD4.

Regards

Scaff

So, the Wharfedale's are definitely better than those KEF's, right? I read many good things about the Diamond 9's, today I'm going to a store that has both and have a listen.

And yeah, that deal on that silver 505 is just too good to pass. In fact... WAS too good to pass, as I've just ordered it!

They only had 2 more available and although I'd prefer the black model, I didn't want to let this one slip as then I know I'd be pissed. I can live fine with the silver one, matches my cable signal decoder and JVC S-VHS beast I got.

About the cables, what do I need? I don't have a HD-TV yet.
Also, speaker cables. Is it a better deal to buy ready cables or go for buying them cut at measure and the plugs separately? Problem is, wouldn't know how to assemble them (unless it's easy, in which case I'd do it as I'm good at DIY).

Can't wait to have the system all done and ready playing that game.
Of course, I'll have to view my entire DVD collection again, to listen to all the different sounds and it will be almost like the first time I see them.

TB
Some people don't want the "hassle", if you will, of buying multiple items. They want decent sound, but only out of one box. Myself, I like buying everything separate. My question was presented to see which type of person you are, thus why I went with the two recommendations above - one from each category.

That said, in part, it could also be what you said - room for upgrades in the future. One box - not all that many options, obviously.

You're totally right, I forgot to post what I found about the Onkyo receiver you suggested. Here it is:
Onkyo TX-SR605 - €538,67 (about USD$800) cheapest one I found and still it's twice the price I got for the 505 on that one store.

And yeah, I'm definitely going for a separate set. Don't want to spend the money and get stuck with the exact same stuff until I want to change, and then have to buy everything from scratch to improve the system. 👍

EDIT: Do you guys think it'll make a whole lot of difference listening to the diferent speakers on some amp other than the 505? Can it be deceiving, sound-wise?

Scaff · Feb 23, 2008

Beerz
So, the Wharfedale's are definitely better than those KEF's, right? I read many good things about the Diamond 9's, today I'm going to a store that has both and have a listen.

And yeah, that deal on that silver 505 is just too good to pass. In fact... WAS too good to pass, as I've just ordered it!
They only had 2 more available and although I'd prefer the black model, I didn't want to let this one slip as then I know I'd be pissed. I can live fine with the silver one, matches my cable signal decoder and JVC S-VHS beast I got.

About the cables, what do I need? I don't have a HD-TV yet.
Also, speaker cables. Is it a better deal to buy ready cables or go for buying them cut at measure and the plugs separately? Problem is, wouldn't know how to assemble them (unless it's easy, in which case I'd do it as I'm good at DIY).

Can't wait to have the system all done and ready playing that game.
Of course, I'll have to view my entire DVD collection again, to listen to all the different sounds and it will be almost like the first time I see them.

You're totally right, I forgot to post what I found about the Onkyo receiver you suggested. Here it is:
Onkyo TX-SR605 - 538,67 (about USD$800) cheapest one I found and still it's twice the price I got for the 505 on that one store.

And yeah, I'm definitely going for a separate set. Don't want to spend the money and get stuck with the exact same stuff until I want to change, and then have to buy everything from scratch to improve the system. 👍

EDIT: Do you guys think it'll make a whole lot of difference listening to the diferent speakers on some amp other than the 505? Can it be deceiving, sound-wise?

Personally I would rate the Wharfedale's over the KEFs, the diamond 9's are going to offer you a 'fuller' sound that the satellite/sub combination of the KEFs. The sub is also a lot better on the Wharfedale package, however having a listen your self is important. In an idea world you would want to hear them on the same Amp as you are going to use them with (the 505). However if this is not possible I woudl still give them both a listen, because its at least going to give you an idea of how they compare.

Good move on the 505, that price certainly was too good to miss, the 605 you mentioned is the next model up in the Onkyo range, but its quite a jump in price (£250 vs £400 in the UK). I'm actually looking to upgrade to one later this year, as currently my speakers are overspec'd for my amp.

In regard to speaker cable, I have always bought it in bulk and then cut it to the size required, fitting banana plugs is very easy. As far as cable goes, do not buy the cheap 'bell' wire (very thin and looks like telephone line cable), go for a reasonable quality 79 strand to start off with, something like this...

...aim to pay around £1 a metre for it. Speaker cable can get silly in price (I run QED Silver Anniversary at £5 a metre) but to begin with some good copper 79 strand will get you started well enough. When buying cable keep in mind that you will need more than you think, as you will have to run it out of sight, and when cutting it to length always keep it the same length for paired speakers (so the front two and the rear two). You will also need a good length of single phono to single phono for the subwoofer and an optical cable for the PS3 to 505 link. Get a descent cable for the sub, but don't worry about the optical, its a digital signal so it either works or it doesn't.

Also take a look here...

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/articles/

...its an excellent source of information on Home Cinema set-up and equipment and will provide very useful when it comes to positioning speakers and the sub, etc.

One last thing when you set up the PS3 you will need to go into the system menu and tell it that you are outputing via optical, and also ensure that you go into the BD/DVD menu and set the optical output to Bitstream (if you don't you will not get full surround separation from DVDs).

Regards

Scaff

Beerz · Feb 23, 2008

Thanks for the info and link, Scaff.

Ok, I listened to both the KEF's and the Diamond 9's today, and it was really great.
The KEF's are actually pretty good for their size, I liked the sound they gave.
But... the Diamond 9's really exceeded my expectations. They don't need to be set at a high volume setting to completely fill the room with their sound, I quite liked that (especially because I really like to watch movies late in the night when I can't sleep, and my neighbours don't).
Also, the medium range on the Diamond 9's seemed richer than the KEF's offered.

So, I got home and ordered them right away.

I'll be picking them up Monday afternoon after work. It's less than an hour drive to their store (not the one I was today, those guys have the KEF's at €698,98 and the Diamond 9's at €779,99 - !!!). I called in, confirmed the availability, placed the order on their website and already got both e-mail and phone call confirmation they will be available from 3pm Monday onwards.

I've just done a quick preview of how I'm thinking of setting the speakers, but it may change. I don't know if I'll put them on stands, or have the front ones over the furniture thing... also, I was thinking of running the cables that go to the rear speakers under the rug. Is that ok? Or should I make them circle the wall all the way to the back of the couch?

Still on cables, I'll go do a search around tomorrow.
What does 'strand 79' mean? Is that a measure? I searched online and only found measures in mm.
Another thing, the Onkyo seems to have the back speaker output not ready for bananas, but for inserting just the copper part of the cable and screwing the knob (notice the highly evolved technical language... :dunce:

). Is it just like that?

TB · Feb 24, 2008

Beerz
Still on cables, I'll go do a search around tomorrow.
What does 'strand 79' mean? Is that a measure? I searched online and only found measures in mm.

Skaff might like a larger gauge (as it's called in the US), but it looks like 12ga (2.5mm) should suffice. The rule to remember - the lower the gauge number, the thicker the wire , or for you the higher the mm the the thicker wire. To a point, thicker = better as it carries sound better with less signal loss. As a designer for an electrical engineer, I know this principle all too well for power. We reguraly have to up size our feeders for electrical panels when the distance becomes too great to overcome the dreaded voltage drop.

Beerz
Another thing, the Onkyo seems to have the back speaker output not ready for bananas, but for inserting just the copper part of the cable and screwing the knob (notice the highly evolved technical language...). Is it just like that?

This should ease your mind.

Scaff · Feb 24, 2008

79 strand cable is quite posiably a UK thing, but something around the 2.5mm should do the job perfectly, and no bananas are not a requirement. The cables going under the carpet should be fine and the speaker placement looks good.

As far as stands go, I personally would go for them, the speakers will sound better on stands (isolation is good for speakers) and they will allow you to set them at ear height (as in ear height when you are sat down).

All looks good so far

Scaff

Beerz · Feb 24, 2008

TB
Skaff might like a larger gauge (as it's called in the US), but it looks like 12ga (2.5mm) should suffice. The rule to remember - the lower the gauge number, the thicker the wire , or for you the higher the mm the the thicker wire. To a point, thicker = better as it carries sound better with less signal loss. As a designer for an electrical engineer, I know this principle all too well for power. We reguraly have to up size our feeders for electrical panels when the distance becomes too great to overcome the dreaded voltage drop.

Thanks, TB. I've been looking around, and even on the 2.5mm, there's so many brands and diferent prices, all claiming to be 'purest copper' or 'highest quality'...

This should ease your mind.

Wow, it certainly did!
I just checked on the Onkyo's specs and it's there.

Scaff
79 strand cable is quite posiably a UK thing, but something around the 2.5mm should do the job perfectly, and no bananas are not a requirement. The cables going under the carpet should be fine and the speaker placement looks good.

As far as stands go, I personally would go for them, the speakers will sound better on stands (isolation is good for speakers) and they will allow you to set them at ear height (as in ear height when you are sat down).

All looks good so far

Scaff

Yeah, that would be my assumption too, as there's virtually nothing with that designation around here.
I was asking about the cables going under it, because I'm afraid that continuous stepping could eventually ruin them, and having to buy cables that would have to circle the room to reach the back would be more expensive.
As far as stands go, I won't be buying them just now, as I'll have to wait until the 21st (when I get paid), or even next month. But I'll be getting them for sure, it not only looks better, but as you said, to place them at ear height.

I'll be picking them up tomorrow after work, even heavy Lisbon traffic at that hour won't piss me off as much.
The Onkyo, I'm still waiting for tomorrow to get a confirmation on a ETA.
The cables, I'm probably buying tonight.

Can't wait to have it all here and ready!

Sniffs · Feb 24, 2008

man...am I the only one who did it on the cheap?

I bought an off-market floor model Pro-Logic unit about 10 years ago for the equivelant of €100 (then price, I'd say, oh, £90/$168 bucks with tax) from a soon to be dead department store, a la Simpsons. I allready had the speakers, everything but the sub-woofer (which I now have), and all I had to buy was the wires.
I've never had a foul up since I bought it.

Beerz · Feb 25, 2008

Sniffs - I searched a few used stuff stores and online, but I could either find just expensive crappy and old stuff (I know it was crappy because it was already overpriced for its quality back then when I understood something more about this), or really good but stupidly expensive stuff.
Besides, I'm thinking of this as an investment for the next few years. 👍

I've got news!
Just got home from picking up the speakers, and I'm drooling more than Homer up there on the other post. Seriously, these look 10x better than the ones I listened to on that store. The ones on the store were Maple, these are Black Ash.

Plus, the central speaker on the store was the 9.CC, this is the 9.CS, it's way bigger and the design works better in this size. Again, the black really comes into play with this, as it's jaw-droppingly gorgeous.
I took a few shots of them boxed and un-boxed with my phone, gotta try and find the USB cable that connects it to my PC, so I can upload them.

Speaking of cables, since I was on the store and they had them there, I got them.
they made me a discount on the speaker cable, it was marked for €3,5/m and they sold it for €2/m. It's a 4mm cable, pretty good and solid, highly pure copper, very thick and rubber isolation is also thick. Transparent with a single thin red stripe on the 'positive'.
I could barely get a 2,5mm for that price anywhere, let alone a 4mm one.
Also bought the RCA cable for use with the subwoofer, a Tech Link that I've seen on some other stores at much higher prices.
Overall, nearly €70 in cables, but all good stuff, or so I think.

Just missing the receiver, still waiting for the other guys to ship it (arrives within 24/48h after shipping).

How's it looking so far?

icelt · Feb 25, 2008

Hey, just watched the gametrailers review for CoD4 (again) and in it they mention that the sound programming was optimized for 6.1. So if you want to maximize the CoD experience you might want to think of adding one additional speaker for the center rear. I would have mentioned this earlier but I forgot all about it until I heard it again just a few minutes ago.

MustangSVT · Feb 25, 2008

Sniffs
man...am I the only one who did it on the cheap?

I bought an off-market floor model Pro-Logic unit about 10 years ago for the equivelant of 100 (then price, I'd say, oh, £90/$168 bucks with tax) from a soon to be dead department store, a la Simpsons. I allready had the speakers, everything but the sub-woofer (which I now have), and all I had to buy was the wires.
I've never had a foul up since I bought it.

A Pro-Logic unit is not 5.1 surround. Dolby Pro Logic takes Dolby Surround (stereo) and unfolds it in 4.0. Not the same thing as discrete 5.1 (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc.)

Scaff · Feb 25, 2008

Beerz
Sniffs - I searched a few used stuff stores and online, but I could either find just expensive crappy and old stuff (I know it was crappy because it was already overpriced for its quality back then when I understood something more about this), or really good but stupidly expensive stuff.
Besides, I'm thinking of this as an investment for the next few years. 👍

I've got news!
Just got home from picking up the speakers, and I'm drooling more than Homer up there on the other post. Seriously, these look 10x better than the ones I listened to on that store. The ones on the store were Maple, these are Black Ash.
Plus, the central speaker on the store was the 9.CC, this is the 9.CS, it's way bigger and the design works better in this size. Again, the black really comes into play with this, as it's jaw-droppingly gorgeous.
I took a few shots of them boxed and un-boxed with my phone, gotta try and find the USB cable that connects it to my PC, so I can upload them.

Speaking of cables, since I was on the store and they had them there, I got them.
they made me a discount on the speaker cable, it was marked for 3,5/m and they sold it for 2/m. It's a 4mm cable, pretty good and solid, highly pure copper, very thick and rubber isolation is also thick. Transparent with a single thin red stripe on the 'positive'.
I could barely get a 2,5mm for that price anywhere, let alone a 4mm one.
Also bought the RCA cable for use with the subwoofer, a Tech Link that I've seen on some other stores at much higher prices.
Overall, nearly 70 in cables, but all good stuff, or so I think.

Just missing the receiver, still waiting for the other guys to ship it (arrives within 24/48h after shipping).

How's it looking so far?

Beerz

It sounds like its all coming together very nicely indeed, don't worry about the amount you've spent on cabling, given your overall budget its fine. It is one area that you can end up getting very silly with, as an example I'm running...

finished off with one of these...

as my sub accepts a twin RCA input. £95/125 for the sub cables alone, topped off with 25meters of QED Silver Aniversary speaker cable (£125/167), which comes to £220/290). So don't worry about it at all, after all money spent on speaker cables is always worth it 👍

Scaff

Beerz · Feb 26, 2008

The SW150 also accepts twin RCA input, but I bought a standard RCA/RCA.
What are the differences in using a twin on the sub? More input?

Also, found a pic just like the one I got, exactly the same:

the gold on the shot is dulled out (as the chrome), looks better IRL

The speaker cable is also exactly this one:

4,mm Goldkabel

icelt - Don't make me slap you. :lol:

I'll probably get one in the future, but I'm already all out of funds for the next month or two...

Scaff · Feb 26, 2008

Beerz
The SW150 also accepts twin RCA input, but I bought a standard RCA/RCA.
What are the differences in using a twin on the sub? More input?

Also, found a pic just like the one I got, exactly the same:

the gold on the shot is dulled out (as the chrome), looks better IRL

The speaker cable is also exactly this one:

4,mm Goldkabel

icelt - Don't make me slap you.
I'll probably get one in the future, but I'm already all out of funds for the next month or two...

The speaker cable and RCA look to be of good quality and should do the job perfectly well.

In regard to the sub, using the twin RCAs will arguably give a more balanced input and therefore a better and more controlled sound. The RCA splitter I use is a QED Y-SW adaptor...

http://www.hificables.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/10854/

.. you can pick them up for £30 - £35, the are stunningly build cables (as all the QED stuff is - can you tell I quite like QED cables).

One question, have you picked up an optical cable yet? As you will need one to get the best sound out of the PS3 (no need to spend huge money here - digital cables don't give significant improvement with price). Also have you considered what other sources you will need to put into the AMP, how do you currently get you'r TV signal? Is it via cable or satellite, as you may want to take a look at the back of the box to see what audio output options it has (many here in the UK also use optical - my Sky+ satellite box does).

Regards

Scaff

icelt · Feb 26, 2008

Beerz
icelt - Don't make me slap you.
I'll probably get one in the future, but I'm already all out of funds for the next month or two...

You've already taken your first baby steps onto the black path, now you might as well give in fully to the dark side <extends devil horns>

Beerz · Feb 26, 2008

Scaff
The speaker cable and RCA look to be of good quality and should do the job perfectly well.

In regard to the sub, using the twin RCAs will arguably give a more balanced input and therefore a better and more controlled sound. The RCA splitter I use is a QED Y-SW adaptor...

http://www.hificables.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/10854/

.. you can pick them up for £30 - £35, the are stunningly build cables (as all the QED stuff is - can you tell I quite like QED cables).

One question, have you picked up an optical cable yet? As you will need one to get the best sound out of the PS3 (no need to spend huge money here - digital cables don't give significant improvement with price). Also have you considered what other sources you will need to put into the AMP, how do you currently get you'r TV signal? Is it via cable or satellite, as you may want to take a look at the back of the box to see what audio output options it has (many here in the UK also use optical - my Sky+ satellite box does).

Regards

Scaff

Yeah, I saw a lot of good things about QED material, even on some Portuguese forums I stumbled upon while doing research. I might think about a dual RCA for the sub in the future, as I'm sure that for now everything will sound all too good to change.

About the optica, I hadn't thought about it yet ( :dunce:

), but I checked on my cable TV receiver, and it doesn't have an optical output; only the standard TV sockets, 2x SCART, and an Ethernet connection.

icelt
You've already taken your first baby steps onto the black path, now you might as well give in fully to the dark side <extends devil horns>

I believe I'm fully on the dark side now, as looking back, I don't want to get back to the 'bright side'. :lol:

NEWS FLASH!!!

Receiver arrived JUST NOW!
And I mean it literally, as the guys from the transport company rang while I was typing this post.
Going to assemble and connect stuff now, will post again when it's all ready and running. :cheers:

TB · Feb 26, 2008

Nice!

We want a full report, with pictures.

Scaff · Feb 26, 2008

Excellent news, can't wait to see what you think.

If you haven't got an optical cable yet then you can still link the PS3 to the TV and amp by running the video lead to the scart block for the TV signal and then the two audio leads directly to an input on the amp.

If you currently connect using one of these (or something like it)...

...then just take out the audio leads and run them to an input on the amp.

However don't leave it like this long term, switching to an optical link between the PS3 and amp will make a world of difference (if you already bought the optical cable ignore the above and just use that).

This may also be an option for your cable TV box (if you can post up a picture of the back of the box and I will see what option you have).

Scaff

Sniffs · Feb 27, 2008

MustangSVT
A Pro-Logic unit is not 5.1 surround. Dolby Pro Logic takes Dolby Surround (stereo) and unfolds it in 4.0. Not the same thing as discrete 5.1 (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc.)

dude, you don't have to have a bleedin 8.1 for a thousand nicker for nothing but the basics. I use older electronics, including a nearly 20 year old TV. I bought that surround back around 96 or 7, so THEN it was only one step down. besides, 5.1 sounds so utterly gorgeous through it.

hehe...they still make wood grain print vinyl stickers on speakers

like I said...I have the old stuff. I am using 35-40 year old speakers at times, they work just fine. if I could keep a 78 Sharp 19 inch TV running untill 2000...

Beerz · Feb 27, 2008

Hey guys.

TB - I'm taking a few pics of the process, will post them as sono as I find the CD that came with my phone, the software is there. I found the cable and now I can't find the CD... :rolleyes:

Scaff - It's just those that I mentioned, except the Ethernet is a LAN. My mistake.

Ok, I need some help here, it's driving me nuts.
I went to dinner at my parents' house, or I probably could have asked earlier.

This is the situation:
All the cables are plugged in; all the speakers and the sub are wired onto the receiver, I've got the optical cable connected from the PS3 onto one of the optical inputs on the receiver (the one that says DVD, which is also currently selected as the input source on the receiver's screen).
I go on to my PS3 and change the setting on the BD/DVD sound output to Bitstream (on the optical menu, not the HDMI.

But... on the Audio Output definitions, the following happens:
1st, as soon as I enter this menu, there's a phrase at the bottom of the screen that says "turn on the power of the selected device".
This is the menu that shows the picture of all possible output means: HDMI, SCART, Optical, etc.
I proceed to Optical, as my preferred sound output, thus showing a menu with the various possible sound options: dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1, AAC, PCM linear 2 channels 44.1 kHz, PCM linear 2 channels 88.2kHz, PCM linear 2 channels 176.4kHz and PCM linear 2 channels 48kHz.
The ones I underlined are shown as selected and in grey, and I can't change that. Even if I choose any of the other options, it doesn't allow me to proceed in any form.

What am I doing wrong here? I'd really appreciate some help here, I'm completely lost right now, and geting pissed too.

EDIT: I've passed the pissed stage, as I'm too sleepy. It's 3:15am and I can't even think straight.
Just thought I'd clarify that the PS3 has the optical running to the receiver, but is still connected to the TV with a SCART. Don't know if that makes a difference or not, can't discard any possibility now...

Scaff · Feb 27, 2008

Beerz
Hey guys.

TB - I'm taking a few pics of the process, will post them as sono as I find the CD that came with my phone, the software is there. I found the cable and now I can't find the CD...

Scaff - It's just those that I mentioned, except the Ethernet is a LAN. My mistake.

Ok, I need some help here, it's driving me nuts.
I went to dinner at my parents' house, or I probably could have asked earlier.

This is the situation:
All the cables are plugged in; all the speakers and the sub are wired onto the receiver, I've got the optical cable connected from the PS3 onto one of the optical inputs on the receiver (the one that says DVD, which is also currently selected as the input source on the receiver's screen).
I go on to my PS3 and change the setting on the BD/DVD sound output to Bitstream (on the optical menu, not the HDMI.

But... on the Audio Output definitions, the following happens:
1st, as soon as I enter this menu, there's a phrase at the bottom of the screen that says "turn on the power of the selected device".
This is the menu that shows the picture of all possible output means: HDMI, SCART, Optical, etc.
I proceed to Optical, as my preferred sound output, thus showing a menu with the various possible sound options: dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1, AAC, PCM linear 2 channels 44.1 kHz, PCM linear 2 channels 88.2kHz, PCM linear 2 channels 176.4kHz and PCM linear 2 channels 48kHz.
The ones I underlined are shown as selected and in grey, and I can't change that. Even if I choose any of the other options, it doesn't allow me to proceed in any form.

What am I doing wrong here? I'd really appreciate some help here, I'm completely lost right now, and geting pissed too.

EDIT: I've passed the pissed stage, as I'm too sleepy. It's 3:15am and I can't even think straight.
Just thought I'd clarify that the PS3 has the optical running to the receiver, but is still connected to the TV with a SCART. Don't know if that makes a difference or not, can't discard any possibility now...

With optical outputs (which I used to run on my old amp) make sure the amp is switched on and the input is set to the correct one (the optical you have plugged into) and then head to the PS3 sound menu.

Select the optical option (it will still tell you to make sure the amp is switched on), once that is done the option screen will pop up, giving you the ones outlined above.

Dolby Digital 5.1
DTS 5.1
AAC,
PCM linear 2 channels 44.1 kHz
PCM linear 2 channels 88.2kHz
PCM linear 2 channels 176.4kHz
PCM linear 2 channels 48kHz

I would strongly recomend only ticking on the Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 options (the two PCM ones are defaults and will not take effect as you have Bitstream selected) and see what results you get off that.

Once these are selected (if I recall correctly you then has to press right on the controller to accept these setting and then X to confirm them.

I'm posting this from memory as I'm at work, but will take a look later today (I may be able to get back home this afternoon, I don't know 100% yet).

One final check you can do is when you are in the optical set-up screen, take the optical lead out of the amp and see if a red light is coming out of it (it should be).

Regards

Scaff

Beerz · Feb 27, 2008

Thanks, Scaff.

So, here's the thing: On the PS3, I've chosen the two options you said. On the receiver, I've got it set up to receive from the optical.
Now, I've managed to get the sound come through the receiver, but it only plays on both front left and front right + subwoofer. Central and surround speakers don't give any sound at all.
They're well connected, as when I did the auto setup with the provided mic, all of them emited sound.
I choose to play Digital on the receiver, but still no sound from central and surround speakers.
What am I still missing here?

Scaff · Feb 27, 2008

Quick question - what are you playing back, a DVD or a game?

Give both a quick go if you can and let me know what you get

Scaff

Beerz · Feb 27, 2008

It was a game (CoD4, what else?), as I didn't had time to try anything else, I was on my lunch break.
As soon as I get home from work, I'll try a few things and post results here. 👍

Making it work - 5.1 Home Theater

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