The Australian Car Rules & Regulations Thread.

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mafia_boy

mafia_boy

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Since we were destroying the censorship thread and thanks to Turbo Lag's suggestion, I too feel that we should have somewhere to discuss all the draconian laws that are made up through the various states in Australia.

Now to start off, let's continue our discussion about prohibited vehicles for P platers. Here is the PDF of the whole list of prohibited cars for NSW.

Linky to NSW Prohibited Car List for P1/P2 Drivers.

Let's continue this at will. 👍
 
First of all, I present you with a 'letter' I wrote a bit of a time ago.

As a 13 year old car fanatic, I find the new car restriction laws pointless and wasteful. The Government is simply too lazy to find a good solution to keep people safer on roads. One of the biggest problems is a lack of general knowledge and intelligence. A test could be held for the L-Plate drivers; for instance an I.Q test. Obviously the higher you get results in you being able to drive more powerful cars at an earlier age. Sometimes people these days make stupid mistakes which usually end up costing an innocent person’s life. This must be dealt with immediately.
The generalization about Commodore’s is in my opinion, fairly correct. When the ‘hoons’ usually pick a car, they look for sedan/coupe in rear wheel drive; usually something a 6 cylinder older Commodore or equivalent Ford. Notice both these cars are Australian built. Read the new car restriction laws more closely, you’ll find a few cars which do not apply to the usual slogan of the Government; “Speed Kills”. A few new cars which are being built; the Holden Commodore SV6, and Ford Falcon XR6 have a high power rating and they are rear wheel drive. There are also a few others that fit in this ‘loophole’, for example the Lotus Exige. After studying these laws, I find that the car restriction law is simply there to help Aussie manufacturers, since they are the only not applicable to these certain cars. An old HSV Commodore with a V8 produced less power than a newer base model “Omega” Commodore. Also, safety ratings should come into play. All 5-Star models should be made legal as long as it dosen’t produce “x” figure.
I’ve been waiting to get hold of my driving licence since I found out about it at an early age. Our family will probably get a new car soon, since I know my cars well I have chosen a Subaru Liberty (4GEN) as first choice. It has a 5 Star Safety rating, tested by numerous countries. It is 4WD standard, which I think is the ‘safest’ drive type for a new driver. The top model’s produce about the same powers as a legal VE Commodore, yet this is turbocharged. So this family friendly, safe and quiet sedan is illegal to drive for a new driver. Only a few lower models of the Liberty can be legal for a new driver. Another example I have is the VW Golf GTI MkV. It too has a 5-star safety rating, equipped with a 2.0l Turbocharged engine producing about 200hp or thereabouts. This car has won countless awards for it’s overall status. Yet this hatchback is made illegal. The Government should rethink it’s laws and make them simply E.g. Nothing over 200kW.
I understand the new laws, I agree with the result the new laws are supposed to have. The problem is, the Government is simply attempting to make revenue out of an issue which the public is interested in.
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The laws might have changed from then, but I'm not too sure. I've also changed my POV a little.

EDIT: Now that I read it again, I may have been a bit biased.
 
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No, the laws are still the same. You can get 200Kw full of FWD Aurion or AWD Rav4 V6 power without a worry, but 50Kw of turbo 3cyl. are illegal. It just illustrates that the governments of this country have no idea of how to be more fair and appropriate with their handling of these issues in particular.

Atleast in NSW in 67 minutes our laws will change for speeding which makes it a bit more fairer to the normal person, where if you're just over the limit (1-10km/h now) it's back down to 1 point on your licence. They've done it in 10km/h blocks up to 30km/h now and give you 1, 3 & 4 points respectively and 30-45 is now 5 points and the same still applies for 45+ being 6pts. + automatic DQ + nearly $2k in fines.
 
In Vic, it's apparent that crushing the hoon's cars might become reality. Although I think it's better to auction off the car, and the proceeds going to earlier victims or charity.
 
After looking through about... 26 pages of that pdf file. It almost makes me wonder what you CAN drive in Aus. How hard is it to find your first car if you're a P Plate driver?
 
Come to South Australia, drive any car you wish and get your full license at 19.
 
It's still pretty easy, but you get reduced to certain options and have to gain performance in other ways via the NA route. And these days, it's so much easier and cheaper to slap a snail on the cars to make them go fast or more cost effective to do engine swaps that the youngin's just wait with the stocky motor until they're allowed to drive turbos. Some examples of what still can be driven are:

Supra SZ-R
Silvia Q's
Civic Type R & Integra Type R

For OLD SCHOOL lovers you have the following:
Torana XU1
Charger E38 & E49
Capri V6

And if you're rich, like I said in the other thread....you could even drive an E46 M3 CSL LEGALLY!! Also, the rules don't state that you can't modify the NA motor, you just have to stay under the noise and emission limits. ;) And for cars like the old schoolers which were released before ADR's were introduced so they can be worked to be absolute monsters and are all legal!! The XU1 is the funniest to be legal since it's more powerful than the 253ci Torry, but the 253 is banned cause it's a V8. :lol:

*added bit* Just do what Jay said, go to SA. It's Australia's version of Amsterdam. :P
 
I personally think it should be judged on power to weight.

Then big cars like 4WDs that are safe as houses are legal.

And all P-Plate cars must be fitted with a mobile phone signal jammer that operates when moving.

And bring on mandatory ESC and Curtain Airbags.
 
I know I don't live in Oz and I might be a bit more biased if I did, but am I the only person who thinks it's a good idea that most of those vehicles aren't available to younger or less experienced drivers? Young drivers kill themselves pretty easily in cars without a lot of power so that doesn't exactly bode well for giving them a V8 Commodore or something. It might seem a bit draconian but once you grow up and you're able to drive something a bit more fun you'll thank yourself that you had that opportunity because you didn't kill yourself from inexperience early on...

I agree there are some odd "banned" cars there (such as the aforementioned turbo 3-cyl) but you have to admit there is a lot there that has a place on that list.

bergauk
After looking through about... 26 pages of that pdf file. It almost makes me wonder what you CAN drive in Aus. How hard is it to find your first car if you're a P Plate driver?
Click to expand...

I dunno... something which isn't a V8?

waggles
I personally think it should be judged on power to weight.

Then big cars like 4WDs that are safe as houses are legal.

And all P-Plate cars must be fitted with a mobile phone signal jammer that operates when moving.

And bring on mandatory ESC and Curtain Airbags.
Click to expand...

This is more sensible. A lumbering 4x4 is probably likely to be driven in a more sedate manner than a V8, RWD sedan. At the same time though, any accident is probably going to be a whole lot more expensive and destructive in 2+ tonnes of off-roader.
 
HFS, I agree with you, that it is a good idea restricting 'learner drivers' from hi-po cars. However, it's the way the rules are placed that I don't agree. The Government has to rethink this law, and cut out all the loopholes. What I don't see is how this law is currently placed. I personally think that there should be some type of consideration for power/weight and safety. And ofcourse a simple power limit aswell, maybe 250hp.
 
HFS, I see more the need for education. Advanced driver courses are the best thing for a young driver since sliced bread and personally I feel that they should be made mandatory as part of the licencing scheme. That way, regardless of what type of car the young driver gets into, they already have the knowledge of what it's like to be in various cars with various power levels on various surfaces, learning how to control being out of control and things that will save 10 times more lives than the laws of getting a P plate licence by learning to reverse park, hill start and 3-point turn.

It's not hard to get guys in my area with a low powered Pulsar or Corolla to go flogging it around with 4 mates in the car, risking everyone in sight. And they only get worse when they graduate to the high powered cars because they haven't been educated in the first place. When they lose it, they don't know how to gather it back up and that's why most cars are wrapped around telegraph poles and dead young drivers are popping up everywhere. That's why it doesn't matter about the power of the car, it's the person driving it that makes it the deadly weapon due to inexperience and lack of education.
 
I have no problems at all with the current Power/Weight Ratio limitations on cars in Victoria, and think that it is a sensible system that makes sense, easy to understand for everyone, and makes everyone safer.

Case in point, I see 100s of P-Platers driving V6 VT Commodores lighting it up around every corner and even one yesterday that drove straight off the road. A person, (Hell, pretty much a male) who wants a V8 Supercar or GT-R when they first get their license is only going to do one thing with it, and that's showing off to your mates and seeing what you can do with the car. I have no problem with no limits on learner cars, as often the case is the parents only own cars over the P/W limit, the learner has to drive with a parent in the car, and I'm betting the parent will have a pretty tight leash on his kid driving his 911.

Everytime you hear on the news that a fatal accident has involved young drivers, almost certainly I can make out some kind of Falcon or Commodore which has been hotted up to some degree, it's not a coincidence, young drivers just don't have the ability to do the things they think they can do, which while is a fact for all cars, is made more dangerous when given cars which are larger, with more power and higher speed for accidents.

At least in Victoria turbos are not illegal, I had a Turbocharged car when I was still on my P-Plates (About 10 days ago), it's just P/W (They used to have Litres/Weight too but I'm not sure now). And at 125kw/ton, that is more than enough to have some "fun" in, and plenty fast too, especially for someone who has never driven solo before.

But regardless of what car you drive young drivers are still going to be idiots. I drove my 66kw FWD Cordoba off the road and through a paddock when I first got my license, but had I had a V8 Commodore and another 70km/h speed I probably wouldn't be typing this post now, minimising the risk is something that should be done, not just too the P-Plate drivers but other drivers on the road, a lot of maturity comes between 18 and 21, and limiting people for those 3 years to something they are less likely to kill themselves and others in definitely is not a bad idea.
 
Well tbh, people who can't control the car when it's a little out of hand shouldn't be driving anyway. Mafia, I like your idea and would like to see it implemented.
 
Turbo Lag
Well tbh, people who can't control the car when it's a little out of hand shouldn't be driving anyway. Mafia, I like your idea and would like to see it implemented.
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95% of the time it's out of hand because they're being knobs. Driver training does not equal maturity.
 
I <3 America. Turn 16/17, get your license after 1 year of a learners permit, then drive whatever the hell you want. Insurance/gas are all that stops you.
 
Restrictions to what P platers can drive is still new to QLD, and the rule was that if you got your Ps before the new laws they didn't apply to you.:D Although I'm less than a year away from my full license now anyway at age 20, I can still drive what ever I like, although I'd like to go and get some training before I step in anything too powerful on the road.
 
Turbo Lag
And ofcourse a simple power limit aswell, maybe 250hp.
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Power limits? Probably sensible. 250bhp is still rather a lot of power though. In the UK that would include most of the top hot hatches and older variants of things like Mitsubishi Evos and Subaru Impreza Turbos. These are still all cars that are very much not suitable for new drivers. 250bhp is over four times the power that my current car (which was also my first car) has (60bhp) and whilst probably by now I'd like to be driving something with more oomph I'm very glad I didn't when I started. I consider myself a fairly sensible driver but in my first year or so I did a few things which might not have ended up well had I been driving something quicker, simply due to inexperience.

Re: Advanced driver courses - a good idea, but the ones who really should be using them are the ones who believe they don't need them...

I still think it's not that much of a hardship to drive something a bit wheezy for a year or two before moving to something better.
 
Re: Advanced driver courses. Since the learners have a chance to 'relax' there a little, why not actually make a free land where learners could just drive around cars and get used to it? Basically it'll give the learner a good feel of the car when they know they have nothing to worry about there.
 
I like what Mercedes do-every owner gets two free courses in defensive driving for their kids.

Just shows how safe-minded MB is.
 
CHEVROLET CAMARO LT 2D COUPE 8 5735 cc CARB 3A 1974 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO RS 2D COUPE 8 5012 cc CARB 3A 1979 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO RS 2D COUPE 8 5012 cc Multi 4A 1984 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO RS 2D COUPE 8 5735 cc CARB 3A 1981 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO SS 2D COUPE 8 6588 cc CARB 4M 1971 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 2D COUPE 8 4089 cc CARB 4M 1969 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 2D COUPE 8 5012 cc CARB 3A 1983 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 2D COUPE 8 5012 cc CARB 4M 1983 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 2D COUPE 8 5012 cc Multi 3A 1982 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 2D COUPE 8 5012 cc Multi 4A 1984 8 Cylinders
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 2D COUPE 8 5012 cc Multi 4M 1982 8 Cylinders
Click to expand...
So A '78 Camaro is ok?, just so long as it's not an '82?
Australia sounds super cool these days.
 
homeforsummer
Power limits? Probably sensible. 250bhp is still rather a lot of power though. In the UK that would include most of the top hot hatches and older variants of things like Mitsubishi Evos and Subaru Impreza Turbos. These are still all cars that are very much not suitable for new drivers. 250bhp is over four times the power that my current car (which was also my first car) has (60bhp) and whilst probably by now I'd like to be driving something with more oomph I'm very glad I didn't when I started. I consider myself a fairly sensible driver but in my first year or so I did a few things which might not have ended up well had I been driving something quicker, simply due to inexperience.

Re: Advanced driver courses - a good idea, but the ones who really should be using them are the ones who believe they don't need them...

I still think it's not that much of a hardship to drive something a bit wheezy for a year or two before moving to something better.
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It's tough to find a "wheezy" car in America nowadays, because everone and their mother has a huge ass SUV or is just a tool. Not to mention the fact that nobody wants to drive one, so mostly all that are left are rusting out piles of crap. Driving something with, let's say 60bhp here, isn't a very smart move in this country. If you do drive one, you're more of a hazard to yourself than with a 200bhp car, because the lower powered can't get out of it's own way, let alone the way of that ginormous Suburban that's bearing down on you.
TrievelA7X
So A '78 Camaro is ok?, just so long as it's not an '82?
Australia sounds super cool these days.
Click to expand...

Well of course. The '78 is a classic, the '82 is a 3rd gen. :P

Big difference. I like both though.
 
Turbo Lag
Well tbh, people who can't control the car when it's a little out of hand shouldn't be driving anyway. Mafia, I like your idea and would like to see it implemented.
Click to expand...

Casio
95% of the time it's out of hand because they're being knobs. Driver training does not equal maturity.
Click to expand...

No, but it does equal a driver being more educated and thus thinking twice about it. Regardless of maturity, knowledge is power and I know when my son gets to 16-17 and gets to drive my 1JZ Cressida that I would want him to be extremely educated about cars and their handling physics before he gets behind the wheel and to know how dangerous it can be if you get into trouble but also to be able to get out of those situations so even if he's in a position where he's losing the car, he has the ability to try and adjust and bring the car out of that slide. He'll go to a proper driving school (Ian Luff's is really good) and get taught proper car control by proper racing drivers.

And even then, some things are just taught from driver error, where you attempt something, misjudge and then never do it that way again because it caused you to go up a gutter or something. It's not like it was 15yrs ago though....we pretty much could get away with murder on the roads in Sydney with the amount of street racing that used to go on, these days all you need is a chirp of the tyres and your car gets impounded for 3mths and crushed on the 2nd offence and some cars have really grabby clutches. :crazy:

Looking at that ad for METEC, it looks like something for all classes, from beginners to advanced. Luffy's is different, he goes from intermediate and up and uses himself, Aaron McGill and a couple of other racing drivers as trainers. A few mates of mine have done the course over the years and it's taught them the respect they should have for their cars (which by the way were pumping 320Kw+@engine) and they don't drive 1/10 as crazy as they used to before they went to the courses, it really calmed them down. 👍
 
mustangGT90210
It's tough to find a "wheezy" car in America nowadays, because everone and their mother has a huge ass SUV or is just a tool. Not to mention the fact that nobody wants to drive one, so mostly all that are left are rusting out piles of crap. Driving something with, let's say 60bhp here, isn't a very smart move in this country. If you do drive one, you're more of a hazard to yourself than with a 200bhp car, because the lower powered can't get out of it's own way, let alone the way of that ginormous Suburban that's bearing down on you.
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I wasn't specifically saying everyone should drive around in 60bhp cars, but there are still sensible limits. I know for a fact they sell things like Corsas (Barinas), MINIs, Fiestas etc over there. These are all models that are probably a whole lot more suitable than a V8, RWD saloon.

As for small or lower powered cars being a hazard that's pretty much just wrong. That depends much more on how it's being driven than how much power it has. I doubt Smart would have released the Fortwo into America if they thought something with circa 70 horsepower would be a liability, and you still have plenty of cars on the market with around 100bhp.

I've certainly met people who are much more of a hazard in more powerful cars in this country. Like the 🤬 in a BMW who almost lost it in front of me the other day on a dry road, on a corner that I could quite safely take quicker than they almost didn't manage.

Anyway, I'm not out-and-out saying that everyone must drive a low powered car for the first couple of years, but you'd have to come up with a pretty good reason for advocating otherwise before I'd think that allowing powerful cars to inexperienced drivers is a good idea.
 
mafia_boy
No, but it does equal a driver being more educated and thus thinking twice about it. Regardless of maturity, knowledge is power and I know when my son gets to 16-17 and gets to drive my 1JZ Cressida that I would want him to be extremely educated about cars and their handling physics before he gets behind the wheel and to know how dangerous it can be if you get into trouble but also to be able to get out of those situations so even if he's in a position where he's losing the car, he has the ability to try and adjust and bring the car out of that slide. He'll go to a proper driving school (Ian Luff's is really good) and get taught proper car control by proper racing drivers.

And even then, some things are just taught from driver error, where you attempt something, misjudge and then never do it that way again because it caused you to go up a gutter or something. It's not like it was 15yrs ago though....we pretty much could get away with murder on the roads in Sydney with the amount of street racing that used to go on, these days all you need is a chirp of the tyres and your car gets impounded for 3mths and crushed on the 2nd offence and some cars have really grabby clutches. :crazy:

Looking at that ad for METEC, it looks like something for all classes, from beginners to advanced. Luffy's is different, he goes from intermediate and up and uses himself, Aaron McGill and a couple of other racing drivers as trainers. A few mates of mine have done the course over the years and it's taught them the respect they should have for their cars (which by the way were pumping 320Kw+@engine) and they don't drive 1/10 as crazy as they used to before they went to the courses, it really calmed them down. 👍
Click to expand...

I don't disagree on Driver Training at all, in fact I think it's a good idea, the now in place 120 hours required as a learner is a great step. However, there is no reason at all that driver training cannot be used as well as a power limitation on new drivers, one does not counteract the other.

And as I said before, the current limit in Victoria is 125kw/ton, (167hp/2200lbs), that is pretty fast, and everyone isn't forced to drive 1.8L Corollas like many of you may think, my car has about 90kw/ton is does mid 8s to 100. Brand new Golf GTIs are still only 110kw/ton, and do low 7s, so I think having that limit in place is perfectly reasonable enough.

homeforsummer
Anyway, I'm not out-and-out saying that everyone must drive a low powered car for the first couple of years, but you'd have to come up with a pretty good reason for advocating otherwise before I'd think that allowing powerful cars to inexperienced drivers is a good idea.
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I think we agree on everything here 👍. Even if it's only for the first year. You can have as much driver training as you like before you get your licence, but none of it is as good as real world experience in real life situations. Not being allow to drive a super powerful car for the first year or so of driving solo on the road I think makes perfect sense.
 
Casio
I don't disagree on Driver Training at all, in fact I think it's a good idea, the now in place 120 hours required as a learner is a great step. However, there is no reason at all that driver training cannot be used as well as a power limitation on new drivers, one does not counteract the other.

And as I said before, the current limit in Victoria is 125kw/ton, (167hp/2200lbs), that is pretty fast, and everyone isn't forced to drive 1.8L Corollas like many of you may think, my car has about 90kw/ton is does mid 8s to 100. Brand new Golf GTIs are still only 110kw/ton, and do low 7s, so I think having that limit in place is perfectly reasonable enough.

I think we agree on everything here 👍. Even if it's only for the first year. You can have as much driver training as you like before you get your licence, but none of it is as good as real world experience in real life situations. Not being allow to drive a super powerful car for the first year or so of driving solo on the road I think makes perfect sense.
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The driver training we definitely can agree on, but the 125Kw/ton rule is stll a bit too much in a sense and you guys down there are lucky in that aspect. :nervous: From that logic, most WRX's are legal in that aspect as our early models were only 155Kw/1250Kg which JUST scrapes in under the limit at 124Kw/tonne and as they got more powerful they got just as fat which kept the PTW in check. Same with the S14 Silvia (147Kw/1230Kg) and VL Turbo (150Kw/1300Kg), VN SS (165Kg/1450Kg) and several other performance cars that we couldn't touch with a 10ft pole in NSW.
 

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