Serious business.

Okay, I'm not using "lazy" grammar at the moment. Happy, my beloved GT community?

I'd understand if flaming and bad language aren't allowed at all, but not capitalizing the "I"s deserves an infraction? I used to be a mod on wrestling and football forums, I've never seen this happen.

I've been a fan of GT since the first one on PS1, and there's a lot of cool members here. The forum overall is great. Why do you have to spoil it by being so strict? I mean, professors in college never commented on "lazy" grammar unless the subject is English. Why should you?


I don't see how that could worry you about the site's image either, nobody makes fun of youtube because of all the idiot users with unwanted comments.

I know it's an easy fix, I type a dozen lab reports every week and I've been writing in java a lot recently, which is a pain in the buttocks since I have to use the shift key often. This does not mean it's fair to ban a user for having bad language overall. What if English isn't my first language?

You were issued with an infraction not because you use lazy grammar, but because you consistently use lazy grammar. The forum's Acceptable Use Policy outlines our expectations of you when you use the forums. I direct your attention to the following line:

By using these forums, you agree to the following:

- You will post all messages in English.
- You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters.

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If for no other reason, we excpet decent grammar because not every member of the forum speaks English as a first language, and it's a common courtesy to be as accurate as possible because it makes their life easier. We are willing to forgive the occasional mis-spelt word or grammatical oversight, because we all make them from time to time. It's when you consistently make them and show no signs of improvement that we take issue with it. And by your own admission - in the very first line of your post - you are able to distinguish between lazy and decent grammar.

If you do not like the rules set forth by the AUP, the answer is simple: don't post. You either play by our rules or not at all. It doesn't matter if you were a member of another forum that did not take as strict a line on the rules of grammar as we do. They are not us; we have our own expectations of you. Your reputation on other forums or the length of time you have been a fan of the Gran Turismo series cannot be redeemed for a licence to pick and choose which rules you observe. You either follow them all, or you leave. There is no middle ground. But if you want to get really pedantic about proper grammar, I can oblige you. Trust me - I'm a high school English teacher. Even when you punctuate and capitalise properly, I can still rip your posts to shreds if you would like me to.

PS - I'd suggest changing your avatar. Posting with "troll-face" as your avatar creates a certain image about you. Namely, that you are a troll. And trolling will get you banned.

tdk

Okay, I'm not using "lazy" grammar at the moment. Happy, my beloved GT community?

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For now.

tdk

I'd understand if flaming and bad language aren't allowed at all, but not capitalizing the "I"s deserves an infraction?

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Not capitalizing an "I" will not earn you an infraction unless you do it repeatedly and you will receive at least one warning first. We know people make grammatical mistakes. We all do. What we expect is effort and posting in the best English you can muster. Not using the shift key is about as lazy as it gets and as such attracts the most attention because it's so prevalent here.

tdk

I used to be a mod on wrestling and football forums, I've never seen this happen.

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If that's how that forum was run, great. However, that has no bearing whatsoever on GTPlanet and how Jordan wants GTPlanet run.

tdk

The forum overall is great. Why do you have to spoil it by being so strict?

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I think, and I'm sure many others will agree, the reason GTPlanet is great is because we're so strict.

tdk

I mean, professors in college never commented on "lazy" grammar unless the subject is English. Why should you?

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I beg to differ. My wife if currently working on her Masters degree in Nursing and she's had corrections made to her papers.

tdk

nobody makes fun of youtube because of all the idiot users with unwanted comments.

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Yeah, we kind of do.

tdk

I know it's an easy fix, I type a dozen lab reports every week and I've been writing in java a lot recently, which is a pain in the buttocks since I have to use the shift key often. This does not mean it's fair to ban a user for having bad language overall.

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If it's such an easy fix, why the complaining when you're asked to do it?

tdk

What if English isn't my first language?

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Interestingly, non-native English speaking members often have better grammar than native speaking. Notice I said often, not always.

I don't have an issue with grammar but some of the people here are WAY to uptight and I don't mean the mods. It's like they've never cut loose on the weekend their entire lives. These people are the sources of my infractions

Other members cannot give infractions. Only moderators can.

Having five points is nearly meaningless. A lot of new users have five points. Some have warnings. Having both five points and a warning means you've already been warned yet continued to post unacceptably. Having ten points or more means that more than one moderator has noticed this.

There are more laid-back forums, but on forums with mixed membership and many foreigners, it's imperative that everything be communicated as clearly as possible. If only so that we don't give Babelfish conniptions during translation.

interludes

Trust me - I'm a high school English teacher. Even when you punctuate and capitalise properly, I can still rip your posts to shreds if you would like me to.

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Excuse me for asking, but what on Earth is that about?

You are saying that even if he posts properly like most of us here you can still...well...you can still what? I don't understand what you meant by this mate.

By no means do I dislike you interludes but I am going to be the one that says this. Are you perhaps, taking your new position too seriously? I never used to have a problem with you but lately you just seem to be bashing everyone around with your new position. I don't see why you cant just give the warnings, infractions or bans and just leave it at that without digging at other people. You just seem to be really up in your head or something.

Again, I am by no means hating on you but just wondering what has happened. All the time I am just seeing your comments relating to bans or use of your new moderating powers and they come out really snide and almighty and it is just bothering. I feel I have to watch my back all the time just to avoid getting in mega trouble for a little thing.

Now I may very well have just kicked up a stink and or earned a new warning/ infraction for saying this but hopefully you can just take a little look at your attitude/ posts and maybe understand where I am coming from.

Legendary

Excuse me for asking, but what on Earth is that about?

You are saying that even if he posts properly like most of us here you can still...well...you can still what? I don't understand what you meant by this mate.

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I mean that actual, proper grammar is not what you think it might be. Of course, super-accurate grammar is nigh on unreadable, ironically.

Legendary

By no means do I dislike you interludes but I am going to be the one that says this. Are you perhaps, taking your new position too seriously?

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No - some users give us more trouble than others. 80% of all the action I take is fine. It's conversational, even - I've had people thank me for giving them warnings because it makes them aware of things that are set out in the AUP. It's the other 20% who seem to think that if they can win an argument, they'll be allowed to do whatever they like. It's those 20% of people who take up 80% of my time, and I'm pretty sure the other moderators have had similar experiences. I've found the ones where I have to come across as a bit of a jerk are the ones that spill out into the public forum. Most of what we do takes place behind closed doors, but occasionally people will step out into the forum proper to get vocal about it. These are the only ones that you see, and I'm sorry that you do. But sometimes people object to the fact that they've done something wrong and they won't take no for an answer. It's unfortunate, but it happens. And since I'm in the middle of holidays with nothing much to do, I'm one of the more-visible moderators around here.

interludes

But if you want to get really pedantic about proper grammar, I can oblige you. Trust me - I'm a high school English teacher. Even when you punctuate and capitalise properly, I can still rip your posts to shreds if you would like me to.

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Define irony

I'm pretty sure you can't start a sentence with "but".

Anyway, I'm sure anyone can rip my posts to shreds . That's my point, who cares of I don't capitalize on "I"s or use the shift key at all? Those rules apply on the rest of the forums and I personally banned members who write in "1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l4ld". That, my friend, is "txt speak". As long as you can easily understand my post it should be fine and I can assure you everyone does, Even without the shift key.

Before you do it, I did understand what you're trying to say. I know you weren't referring "lazy grammar" when said you could rip my posts to shred.


Regarding the avatar, thanks for the heads-up but I'm aware of that. I'm just hoping people could develop a sense of humor rather than take everything so seriously.


@TB: Too many multi-quotes. I'll just bold instead.

For now.
'Glad.


Not capitalizing an "I" will not earn you an infraction unless you do it repeatedly and you will receive at least one warning first. We know people make grammatical mistakes. We all do. What we expect is effort and posting in the best English you can muster. Not using the shift key is about as lazy as it gets and as such attracts the most attention because it's so prevalent here.
I don't understand, how is that a big deal? If you can understand what I'm posting it should not be a problem at all. Sigh. I know I'm lazy, sometimes I need a break from writing and I need to get something over with quick on the forum before I have to leave. Not that posting this way takes up a lot of time, but it is truly annoying when I know I shouldn't have to.


If that's how that forum was run, great. However, that has no bearing whatsoever on GTPlanet and how Jordan wants GTPlanet run.
I think that's just a misinterpretation on your behalf. Let's wait and see what Jordan says. Scroll up and read the example I gave to Interludes. I think that type of posts is what the rule's aimed at, not mine.


I think, and I'm sure many others will agree, the reason GTPlanet is great is because we're so strict.
I highly doubt that. What makes the forum great is the number of active members who you can have an at least semi-intelligent conversation with.


I beg to differ. My wife if currently working on her Masters degree in Nursing and she's had corrections made to her papers.
That's completely different. Did you not read where I said I write proper lab reports? I'm not talking about writing pieces. When they ask us to define a scientific word or explain a theory, they don't look for perfect grammar. You can write exactly the way I did and you'll still get a perfect score.


Yeah, we kind of do.

I'm sorry, do you have a problem comprehending what I say, or do you just want to argue? In that very link, you do not make fun of youtube(the company), you make fun of idiot comments. It has nothing to do with youtube itself.


If it's such an easy fix, why the complaining when you're asked to do it?

Because it's mildly annoying to me, and I think for a lot of other people. Don't get me wrong, I correct grammar and spelling for foreigners on other forums as well but I do it with good intentions. I don't do it to make fun of them or try to get them banned, I just think it'd be great for them to learn proper English.


Interestingly, non-native English speaking members often have better grammar than native speaking. Notice I said often, not always.
I agree.

niky

There are more laid-back forums, but on forums with mixed membership and many foreigners, it's imperative that everything be communicated as clearly as possible. If only so that we don't give Babelfish conniptions during translation.

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Exactly. By any means, how are my posts difficult to understand? The whole idea of language is communication, the day I find someone bothered enough to tell me my posts aren't understandable, is the day I get a warning. Writing with "non-lazy" grammar should only be for professional purposes not an internet forum.




PS: Am I not even allowed to use "lol", or "rofl", etc?

Hey, tdk, keep it up. We think pinkies put to good use are happy pinkies. Is it really so hard to use the shift key?

When I first joined I complained about the rules too. Then I realized it was more work to complain than it was to just type appropriately.

Got me thinking Why is "I" always written with a capital letter? and googled it.

tdk

I'm pretty sure you can't start a sentence with "but".

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Under certain circumstances, you can.

tdk

That's my point, who cares of I don't capitalize on "I"s or use the shift key at all?

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The moderators do.

tdk

As long as you can easily understand my post it should be fine and I can assure you everyone does, Even without the shift key.

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The AUP does not say "if your post is readable, it does not matter how bad your grammar is". It says "decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of captial letters". These are the forum rules, the rules everyone is expected to follow. Why do you seem to think we are in the business of making exceptions on the grounds that you think it is okay for you not to follow the rules? You've already admitted that it is not a problem for you to use the shift key, and you've already demonstrated that you can do it. So why do you continue to argue?

tdk

Regarding the avatar, thanks for the heads-up but I'm aware of that. I'm just hoping people could develop a sense of humor rather than take everything so seriously.

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I just banned a guy who spammed that image across half a dozen threads. I'm more than willing to discuss issues regarding the rules with you, but when you have an avatar that has become a universally-accepted symbol of trolling, it's difficult to treat your posts as anything other than arguing for the sake of it.

tdk

I don't understand, how is that a big deal? If you can understand what I'm posting it should not be a problem at all. Sigh. I know I'm lazy, sometimes I need a break from writing and I need to get something over with quick on the forum before I have to leave. Not that posting this way takes up a lot of time, but it is truly annoying when I know I shouldn't have to.

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If we let you break the rules because you don't think they're a big deal, the when have to let everyone break the rules, and that will lead to anarchy.

tdk

I think that's just a misinterpretation on your behalf. Let's wait and see what Jordan says. Scroll up and read the example I gave to Interludes. I think that type of posts is what the rule's aimed at, not mine.

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The rules are aimed at preventing certain kind of behaviour. It is clearly stated that capitalisation is expected, and therefore, we ask you to capitalise.

tdk

I highly doubt that. What makes the forum great is the number of active members who you can have an at least semi-intelligent conversation with.

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A bit of both, maybe - I've seen forums where the rules aren't enforced as strongly as they are here and it has led to all manner of trouble.

I don't know why we have to explain every time someone becomes irked for recieving a warning/infraction and end up taking to the open forum.

@tdk,
You agreed to follow the AUP at the time of registration, right? In that case follow it, or stop posting.

Simple.

The end.