Downforce and drag

  • Thread starter Grimmeh
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Grimmeh

Grimmeh

274
In GT4, no matter how high you set the downforce, the drag never increased and never affected the top speed. Is it the same for GT5? Yes, I know I could test it myself, but I ask for a broader consensus. I will test this myself later.


  1. First results
 
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Grimmeh
In GT4, no matter how high you set the downforce, the drag never increased and never affected the top speed. Is it the same for GT5? Yes, I know I could test it myself, but I ask for a broader consensus. I will test this myself later.
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I thought the famous Suzuki Escudo wheelie trick from GT4 was about downforce, or wind resistence??

I'm sure there was wind resistence in GT4, and in answer to your question, yes, downforce makes a difference in GT5 too.

Just go to a fast track like Indy in a fast racecar and play around with the aerodynamic settings and you will see for yourself..

👍
 
Denilson
What?
Click to expand...

Thank you for your terribly insightful response, I am much obliged.

:rolleyes:

If I was not clear, I will reword my question. If I put a spoiler on a car and set the downforce to maximum, will it limit the top speed as opposed to the stock car?


Highlandor
I thought the famous Suzuki Escudo wheelie trick from GT4 was about downforce, or wind resistence??

I'm sure there was wind resistence in GT4, and in answer to your question, yes, downforce makes a difference in GT5 too.

Just go to a fast track like Indy in a fast racecar and play around with the aerodynamic settings and you will see for yourself..

👍
Click to expand...

In GT4, it didn’t make a difference. No matter how high or low you set the downforce, the top speed was unaffected (unrealistic). The Escudo was a bit of a glitch/exploit on the game’s physics and really isn’t related to my question.
 
Also the glitch originated in GT3 since I used it many times lol, nothing like going 350+ mph haha. Sorry I haven't tested the downforce myself, but may do so tonight on my lam.
 
thesynergy87
Also the glitch originated in GT3 since I used it many times lol, nothing like going 350+ mph haha. Sorry I haven't tested the downforce myself, but may do so tonight on my lam.
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I hit over 2,000 mph, if not more, using that glitch when you used two Escudos and used them to draft and push each other. In GT3, you could also use the Toyota GT-One. 👍
 
Grimmeh
Thank you for your terribly insightful response, I am much obliged.

:rolleyes:

If I was not clear, I will reword my question. If I put a spoiler on a car and set the downforce to maximum, will it limit the top speed as opposed to the stock car?




In GT4, it didn’t make a difference. No matter how high or low you set the downforce, the top speed was unaffected (unrealistic). The Escudo was a bit of a glitch/exploit on the game’s physics and really isn’t related to my question.
Click to expand...

I asked because I did not understand the Q.. nothing else.. And now, when you mede the Q more understandable I will try to answer.

So if you put a spoiler on a car (i guess you are talking about the spoiler you could by in GT auto) and tune the downforce to maximum, it will affect your top speed as long as your gear ratios allow it. So it is possible that if your ratio is to low, the power of the car will still help it reach its top speed as the gear ratio allows. However, if you set the ratio so you can't reach the revlimiter in top gear without downforce, you will see that the top speed is lower with maximum downforce compared to no downforce. But a spoiler fitted in GT auto is only capable of wery low downforce numbers (10 or somethin compared to the race cars spoilers capable of around 50-80) so i guess you wont see any difference. On a racecar however, you sertainly can. In GT5 that is the way it works.

Hope you understand some poor english..
 
Grimmeh
Thank you for your terribly insightful response, I am much obliged.

:rolleyes:

If I was not clear, I will reword my question. If I put a spoiler on a car and set the downforce to maximum, will it limit the top speed as opposed to the stock car?




In GT4, it didn’t make a difference. No matter how high or low you set the downforce, the top speed was unaffected (unrealistic). The Escudo was a bit of a glitch/exploit on the game’s physics and really isn’t related to my question.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but the bit where I said that downforce does make a difference in GT5 and maybe you should go to a track like Indy and try it for yourself DID answer your question...
 
Yeah, no. Go back and test it.

Varying levels of downforce affected cars then in GT4, and affects them now in GT5.

There is a noticeable increase in speed, and decrease in aerodynamic grip, in a car with minimum downforce.

There is a noticeable decrease in top speed, and increase in aerodynamic grip, in a car with maximum downforce.
 
OP..

Take the FGT and go to the Indy oval … set the down force to the lowest setting’s and set the ride height to the highest, and do a some laps.. trust me in A-spec you can run flat-out no brakes.. and note your lap times.

Next max the down force and lower the ride height to the lowest and run your laps.

Raised -up and low down force is a low drag set-up, and lowered and max down force is high drag…

What set-up ran faster?
 
And so I’ve verified, somewhat, that it in GT5, there is a downforce vs. drag change. I took my ZR1 RM, set the gearing to maximum, set the downforce to maximum (35 and 60, front and rear, respectively), and went flat out on SS7. Consistently, throughout the lap, hit a terminal speed of 372 km/h. I then exited and changed the downforce to minimum (15 and 30, front and rear, respectively) and attained a terminal speed of 382 km/h consistently throughout the lap. I then switched back to maximum downforce and consistently attained the same terminal speed as the first trial. This would make a 52.6% decrease in downforce equating to a 2.7% increase in terminal speed, at least for this car. The ratio could vary with different cars.

I did a quick Google search with confirmed that in GT4 this was not the case, as increased downforce would not affect the drag and overall top speed because of drag.

Terraplane
OP..

Take the FGT and go to the Indy oval … set the down force to the lowest setting’s and set the ride height to the highest, and do a some laps.. trust me in A-spec you can run flat-out no brakes.. and note your lap times.

Next max the down force and lower the ride height to the lowest and run your laps.

Raised -up and low down force is a low drag set-up, and lowered and max down force is high drag…

What set-up ran faster?
Click to expand...

This wouldn't work. There would be more variables here, such as my cornering consistency, mistakes, etc. not to mention I’m testing terminal speed and not lap times (I also don’t have a Formula GT car). I’d like to see more people replicate my exact experiment to determine ratios and see if there is any consistency. If anyone has a ZR1 race car with all modifications, please try this. Please post your max. power, max torque, and weight figures as they can vary with car mileage, oil change, etc.
 
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Grimmeh
And so I’ve verified, somewhat, that it in GT5, there is a downforce vs. drag change. I took my ZR1 RM, set the gearing to maximum, set the downforce to maximum (35 and 60, front and rear, respectively), and went flat out on SS7. Consistently, throughout the lap, hit a terminal speed of 372 km/h. I then exited and changed the downforce to minimum (15 and 30, front and rear, respectively) and attained a terminal speed of 382 km/h consistently throughout the lap. I then switched back to maximum downforce and consistently attained the same terminal speed as the first trial. This would make a 52.6% decrease in downforce equating to a 2.7% increase in terminal speed, at least for this car. The ratio could vary with different cars.

I did a quick Google search with confirmed that in GT4 this was not the case, as increased downforce would not affect the drag and overall top speed because of drag.




This wouldn't work. There would be more variables here, such as my cornering consistency, mistakes, etc. not to mention I’m testing terminal speed and not lap times (I also don’t have a Formula GT car). I’d like to see more people replicate my exact experiment to determine ratios and see if there is any consistency. If anyone has a ZR1 race car with all modifications, please try this. Please post your max. power, max torque, and weight figures as they can vary with car mileage, oil change, etc.
Click to expand...

If you set the gear ratios to hi, the difference will not be as big. try setting the ratio so that when you run on the lowest downforce it almost hits the rewlimiter.. then put ful downforce and see what happens.
 
Why would it matter? It shouldn't, but I will try anyway. The only difference could be the absolute effect of the drag on the car based on speed rather than the change between high and low downforce settings.
 
Terraplane
Face - palm

dude?


downforce is drag
Click to expand...

Thank you for that brilliant deduction. I’m well aware of that; it’s the very reason I pose the question. Drag is indeed often a byproduct of creating downforce (in the case of the X2010, they used an alternate method to create downforce without a drag byproduct).
 
They use a fan at the rear of the car, much like the Chaparral 2J and the Brabham BT46B, to blow air out from underneath the car. Think of it as a sort of vacuum under the car that sucks it to the ground. This doesn't have any effect on the drag but produces enormous downforce (even at low speeds), allowing the car to be streamlined (i.e. void of any, or many, wing elements) to minimize drag. This is what separates it from Formula One cars; just as much downforce, if not more, especially at low speeds, and very little drag.
 
the X1 still has wings though, and those still creates drag and make downforce like traditional F1 cars, the fan just gives it a drag free level of extra base downforce at all speed, in addition to the wing generated force.
 
Dude I understand sucker cars , but even sucker car down force IS still drag….

To answer your original question …Yes GT5 has fixed the drag issue that GT4 had…
 
OP

The most aerodynamic shape is a boat tail bullet or in a larger scale a drop tank off of a military plane..

Any time the air is forced to turn.. it creates drag…. and drag is force.. up down or what ever direction

all of the skirts and body work on a sucker car still create drag , but the extra traction from the low pressure under the car makes the car faster in the turns due to that extra traction.
 
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Although it sounds convincing, I’m skeptical. The air is not being forced to change direction, it’s all moving around the side or over the top, now. The shape you are thinking of is a long-tailed tear shape (a raindrop, but flatter and longer), much like the old, long Bonneville top speed cars. In this case, you have half of that shape simply sitting on the ground. Drag will always exist simply from the fact that it is something going through the air, but you can create minimal drag in a confined size.
 
Some more results:

1. ZR1, max. downforce (35 & 60), max. gearing (298 mph)
1.1 372 km/h
1.3 374 km/h
1.4 373 km/h

2. ZR1, min. downforce (15 & 30), max. gearing (298 mph)
2.1 382 km/h
2.2 383 km/h
2.3 381 km/h

3. ZR1, max. downforce (35 & 60), lower gearing (255 mph)
3.1 373 km/h
3.2 370 km/h
3.3 374 km/h

4. ZR1, min. downforce (15 & 30), lower gearing (255 mph)
4.1 378 km/h
4.2 378 km/h
4.3 379 km/h

1 mean: 373 km/h
2 mean: 382 km/h
1–2 percent change: 2.413%

3 mean: approx. 372 km/h
4 mean: approx. 378 km/h
3–4 percent change: 1.613%

The three listings are the fastest of four sections I could complete through one full lap of Special Stage Route 7.

With the lower gearing, on the low downforce setup, the lower speeds may be because the engine was just below the rev limiter, but never hit it (power might drop at that point).
 
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Grimmeh
Some more results:

1. ZR1, max. downforce (35 & 60), max. gearing (298 mph)
1.1 372 km/h
1.3 374 km/h
1.4 373 km/h

2. ZR1, min. downforce (15 & 30), max. gearing (298 mph)
2.1 382 km/h
2.2 383 km/h
2.3 381 km/h

3. ZR1, max. downforce (35 & 60), lower gearing (255 mph)
3.1 373 km/h
3.2 370 km/h
3.3 374 km/h

4. ZR1, min. downforce (15 & 30), lower gearing (255 mph)
4.1 378 km/h
4.2 378 km/h
4.3 379 km/h

1 mean: 373 km/h
2 mean: 382 km/h
1-2 percent change: 2.413%

3 mean: approx. 372 km/h
4 mean: approx. 378 km/h
3-4 percent change: 1.613%

The three listings are the fastest of four sections I could complete through one full lap of Special Stage Route 7.

With the lower gearing, on the low downforce setup, the lower speeds may be because the engine was just below the rev limiter, but never hit it (power might drop at that point).
Click to expand...

Intresting! I'll try some tests on my own as well and post in here.. But it's time for me to sleep a few hours first.. 👍
When it comes to tests like this I really miss the test course oval from privious games..
 
Denilson
Intresting! I'll try some tests on my own as well and post in here.. But it's time for me to sleep a few hours first.. 👍
When it comes to tests like this I really miss the test course oval from privious games..
Click to expand...

Indeed, although I don’t mind SSR7. :) Volkswagen’s Ehre-Lessien test track would be even better if it made it into GT5!

I also wish I had an X2010 to test with…
 
If I was not clear, I will reword my question. If I put a spoiler on a car and set the downforce to maximum, will it limit the top speed as opposed to the stock car?




yes , it will affect it.
 
Grimmeh
In GT4, no matter how high you set the downforce, the drag never increased and never affected the top speed. Is it the same for GT5? Yes, I know I could test it myself, but I ask for a broader consensus. I will test this myself later.


  1. First results
Click to expand...

Yes, the higher you set your down force the slower you'll be.
 

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