Interior View: Camera TILTING need to be fixed

  • Thread starter HKS racer
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HKS racer

HKS racer

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Does anyone noticed it yet? When you use cockpit view and you look stright alongo the road you will notice some slightly bumbs on the camera, like someone is "tilting" the screen. This is clearly an artificial effect PD implemented to simulate the bumps on the road at high speed BUT in my humble opinion the need to work on it, expecially with fast cars this artificial thing can be annoying, i.e. Nascar or LM Group C running on Daytona Circuit or Monza the camera keep tilting every time, you can try it: If you swich on hood camera or bumper everything seems to be perfectly ok.. This problem is different from track to track too, so if you try it at the North you will probably find nothing wrong with it.
Do you remember GT5 Prologue? Driving with the cockpit view was nothing short than amazing, I hope PD recognyze this little mistake and come back to the original "fixed" view.

A "Conspiracy Theory" (lol) can find this sort of "camera tilting" a move by Poliphony to persuade people not using the interior view.. reducing the appretiaton differences between standard and premium cars.. (I'm just saying, don't want this trade become a flame war, I hope people understand this, we are just discussing about our favourite sim.)
Anyway I would like to thank Poliphony to give us the chance to personalize and remove HUD during race. the North without it is simply :drool:
 
PD did this on purpose, and Kaz even talked about it. Personally I find it a pretty cool and realistic touch, although it definitely is distracting, hence why I don't usually race from interior view. Ever driven a car at high speed or quickly around a turn? Even a surface that seemed smooth before will suddenly reveal bumps and vibrations that you never knew were there. Now in real life your eyes/brain automatically filter out the vibrations and smooth out your vision so you don't necessarily notice it, but if you watch in-car footage from a race you'll see it looks nearly identical. I think it's cool and wouldn't want them to remove it.
 
Somebody use the North too ;)
JTSnooks
PD did this on purpose, and Kaz even talked about it. Personally I find it a pretty cool and realistic touch, although it definitely is distracting, hence why I don't usually race from interior view. Ever driven a car at high speed or quickly around a turn? Even a surface that seemed smooth before will suddenly reveal bumps and vibrations that you never knew were there. Now in real life your eyes/brain automatically filter out the vibrations and smooth out your vision so you don't necessarily notice it, but if you watch in-car footage from a race you'll see it looks nearly identical. I think it's cool and wouldn't want them to remove it.
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I understand what you're saying can be true but does the PS3 have the hardware to do that? No, is not enough for shadows, is clearly not enough for this. They should implement it in an ultra uber definition PS4 console. What about Suzuka? All those white small square pixels tilting at high speed? I prefer GT5Prologue solution to be honest.
 
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I love how the interior view is portrayed in this game much better then any other racing game. although I admit I'm using the bumper cam more even with the premium cars because I've gotten used to it driving the many amazing standard model cars.
 
They added the dynamic cockpit camera because people complained that the cockpit view on Prologue was too still and didn't move at all. So for the GT Academy demo they introduced the dynamic camera. Of course, people then proceeded to whine about it, even though they asked for it to be added. makes sense... :confused:

In the Nurburgring 24h documentary, it was also mentioned that Kaz realised that you are shaken about a lot while driving a racing car. So he decided to implement it into the game.

It has also been revealed that the jagged shadows are due to "dynamic camera angles". I'm not sure if this means the cockpit camera you are referring to, but I'd happily take back the Prologue static camera for reduced shaky-ness :dopey:
 
I have to agree with the OP, I think it can be very distracting at times. Having a dynamic camera is great, but I would like to see G-Forces implied (camera moves back under accelaration and moves forward under braking) not these high-frequency bumps.

I really do not like this feature.
 
All that comes to mind for me is all the old threads complaining about GT5P's "Stiff" Camera. Everybody has a different opinion, Some like the realism aspect of the tilting camera, while others dont care for it.

The best thing to do to please everyone (hopefully) is to add an option for such effects, so it can be turned on or off.
 
sporkafife
They added the dynamic cockpit camera because people complained that the cockpit view on Prologue was too still and didn't move at all. So for the GT Academy demo they introduced the dynamic camera. Of course, people then proceeded to whine about it, even though they asked for it to be added. makes sense... :confused:
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Talking about myself I've never asked them to do this 👍
In the Nurburgring 24h documentary, it was also mentioned that Kaz realised that you are shaken about a lot while driving a racing car. So he decided to implement it into the game.
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True but there is NOT enough hardware to do that in the right way, we just got a ps3 not a NASA Computer.

It has also been revealed that the jagged shadows are due to "dynamic camera angles". I'm not sure if this means the cockpit camera you are referring to, but I'd happily take back the Prologue static camera for reduced shaky-ness :dopey:
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I think they developled GT5's engine with an high end hardware system (the have the engine ready for the future) and then they tried to adapt it to a ps3 hardware device.In real life you don't have the chance to switch the blu line on or off but they added it into the game, so it would be nice if they give us the chance to swich on/off this tlting camera too 👍
 
Everybody saying the tilting camera in GT5 is perfectly reproduced should watch this video:



This is iRacing, probably the best simulator available on the market, as you can see the bumps happen ON THE CAR not in the whole word outside, GT5 actually do it the exact opposite if you know what I mean. That's why PD system doesn't work perfectly and they need to imporve it, making the car tilting not the whole track outside, or of course give us the chance to switch it off that will be easier for them.
 
totally agree. I don't mind the shaking a little bit for a touch of "realism" such as it is but the amount that GT5 has is way too much. It's one thing to strive for realism but to have the screen bouncing around like that just makes the interior view not much fun to PLAY in. You know, since this is supposed to be a video game.. no need to go that far in trying to replicate real life by making people sick :ill:. I mean, how about restricting bathroom usage during the 24hr endurance races for the ultimate in realism! :sly:

(Also, bring back the GTPSP 3rd person camera! No, don't replace the one that's in there now since some people like it, just add in an "unlocked" 3rd person view so I can make turns without the camera acting like it's firmly attached to the back of the car)
 
CeeJay
totally agree. I don't mind the shaking a little bit for a touch of "realism" such as it is but the amount that GT5 has is way too much. It's one thing to strive for realism but to have the screen bouncing around like that just makes the interior view not much fun to PLAY in. You know, since this is supposed to be a video game.. no need to go that far in trying to replicate real life by making people sick :ill:.
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Maybe with the excuse to "add realism" to the game they intentionally did it in a way people get a bit annoyed in some tracks, persuading them switching to the bumper or hood camera. Doing this maybe people will stop complaining about lack of interior views in standard cars, but this is the wrong way, kinda dirty move by them if this is true. I hope not, probably Poliphony need to stop thinking they are the best developers in the world and start recgnizing what competitors are doing: iRacing is making the cars shaking/tilting/bouncing not the road track.

I mean, how about restricting bathroom usage during the 24hr endurance races for the ultimate in realism! :sly:
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lol and somebody tell them real life pro drivers don't drive for the whole 24 hours.

(Also, bring back the GTPSP 3rd person camera! No, don't replace the one that's in there now since some people like it, just add in an "unlocked" 3rd person view so I can make turns without the camera acting like it's firmly attached to the back of the car)
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Nice idea for those users.
 
Its okay....
I'd rather see the light exposure being fixed when looking left/right using the analogue stick. It is being recalculated and takes up a second for it to get to the right level. Annoying when you take a quick look in your mirrors.
 
The iRacing implementation looks very nice. I only use cockpit view, but looking at that video, I can now see how it's flawed.

Also ^^ agreed that the range of visible light is pure, pure annoyance. I guess someone at PD thinks it's "cool" to have this effect, which is just an inherent flaw of cameras which, in reality, our eyes are very good at countering. Maybe keep it for replays, which simulate camera views, but GT5's spectrum from searing white light to a veil of blackness is tiny.
 
HKS racer
Everybody saying the tilting camera in GT5 is perfectly reproduced should watch this video:


This is iRacing, probably the best simulator available on the market, as you can see the bumps happen ON THE CAR not in the whole word outside, GT5 actually do it the exact opposite if you know what I mean. That's why PD system doesn't work perfectly and they need to imporve it, making the car tilting not the whole track outside, or of course give us the chance to switch it off that will be easier for them.
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There is a video where Kaz said he is trying to reproduce the sensation of your body shaking and vibrating during bumps and slowing, they did a good job imo. iRacing could have added it but they didnt think of it, I think its a great touch.
 
^ The thing is, your eyes in GT5 behave like your head is pressed against the side window. I don't hate GT5's cockpit view, but I think iRacing have a more ergonomic one. Something halfway between the two would be nice :)
 
You cannot compare the drivers view within a race with installed cameras in cockpit. They are fixed at the roll cage or whatever and are rumbeling like the car does.

In my opinion, they did a good job to try to get a realistic feeling. But they should fix it in some way because you never have the feeling as you are the driver but you are the camera fixed at the seat.

Sometimes and at high speeds it is shaking, that you eyes hurt after a while and your eyes get totally stressed to filter the shaking screen to fix the view on track.

I think, thats not, how a driver feels. A better idea would be to get some body or head movement and less shaking.
 
You show us a good example of what I explained....a fixed camera in the car with a stiff view, which transfers the car movement 1:1.

But the human eyes can compensate most of this shaking. So your screen would never tremble that much, but the head would move a bit smoother.
 
Big Ron
You show us a good example of what I explained....a fixed camera in the car with a stiff view, which transfers the car movement 1:1.

But the human eyes can compensate most of this shaking. So your screen would never tremble that much, but the head would move a bit smoother.
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Yes, they do compensate a bit. But at high speed there is still a ton of shaking. Not as much as in GT5, but more than iRacing. Maybe, as was suggested, a compromise would be nice.

My first car was a '65 mustang (parents were too trusting), and at speed, that thing shook like crazy. And I did notice it in my vision, though not to the extent in GT5. I like GT5's shaking as it gives a good sense of speed, especially since wind noise is rather muted in GT5. It is just a style thing to me.
 
The camera shake is about the only thing truly giving a good sense of speed in the cockpit view. If they remove it, the cockpit view would be pretty boring. About the only thing that would make it better is if it only shook the outsides of the screen area, essentially your peripheral vision. Then have the center be somewhat stable since that's the part your brain would be focused on making stable.
 
HKS racer
Everybody saying the tilting camera in GT5 is perfectly reproduced should watch this video:



This is iRacing, probably the best simulator available on the market, as you can see the bumps happen ON THE CAR not in the whole word outside, GT5 actually do it the exact opposite if you know what I mean. That's why PD system doesn't work perfectly and they need to imporve it, making the car tilting not the whole track outside, or of course give us the chance to switch it off that will be easier for them.
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That's not realistic either.

At speed, your head moves. In the video you're showing, the virtual "head" (i.e. your point of view) is remaining absolutely still and the car is shaking around it. That's less realistic than what PD has done where they're simulating what happens during a real race where the driver's head is what shakes. Since the system can't shake the chair you're in, they need to "shake" the outside view in order to properly mimic the effect of the driver's head bouncing around.

Now, the PD implementation isn't perfect (though I place it well above what is displayed in the iRacing video); ideally both the car and the outside view would change and PD's seems to focus more on the outside world moving about. The best implementation I've seen so far is in NFS: Shift, but PD's implementation is still quite good though.

Then again, I've only driven real cars around a track at 150+ mph. What would I know.
 
shadders84
Yes, they do compensate a bit. But at high speed there is still a ton of shaking. Not as much as in GT5, but more than iRacing. Maybe, as was suggested, a compromise would be nice.

My first car was a '65 mustang (parents were too trusting), and at speed, that thing shook like crazy. And I did notice it in my vision, though not to the extent in GT5. I like GT5's shaking as it gives a good sense of speed, especially since wind noise is rather muted in GT5. It is just a style thing to me.
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Yeah, a compromise would be nice. I can understand, when you heads shaking that wild, when your racing at 300mph.

But it always hurts my eyes and you can´t concentrate on track. If this would be like real drivers feel, nobody would try to pass the 200mph mark.

Think about, how a NASCAR-driver could race withing 42 car when his view is shaking like in GT5.
 
Wow... Some of you seem to be confused how real life works. When you're driving over bumps at high speeds, its NOT just the car thats going to be shaking. YOU will be shaking as well. Human being don't have the strength to be perfectly still while what they are sitting in is bouncing around harder dogs in heat.

But yes GT5's isn't all that realistic as the driver should also be shifting from side to side (which they all seem to be duct taped to the seat)s, but I the intensity of it is really good.

Although experiencing it (The rumbling in the car at high speeds, NOT the Driver's view itself) in GT5 for a long period of time does for reason make my eyes feel heavy and makes me start to feel sleepy, so I can't play in that view for too long or I'd get the strong urge to stop playing.
 
The minority of people who complain about this are likely the same people who get motion sickness from watching movies like 'Cloverfield'.

I think the majority of people playing actually love when the car shakes at higher speeds in cockpit view.
 
^ And you seem to be confused about what some people are saying. It's not about exact realism, it's about ergonomics. In real life you have gravity and all kinds of spatial awareness and peripheral senses to feel what's going on, but you obviously cannot have that in a game, therefore it's important to find some way to visually communicate what is happening. Without a steering wheel, it is hard to feel when a GT5 car is bogging down, losing grip etc.. iRacing's view seems to help to communicate that.
 

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