G27 clucking noise fix.

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nMd_pRo
Hi guys,

i know there are a lot of topics about this issue but i haven't seen anyone so far that thruly tells us if there is a fix or not aout this problem that i belive affects everyone that owns this wheel.

So, i kept thinking about this, and the best idea i got so far was to replace the plastic flywheels that connect the FFB engines to the wheel axel, by some metal Flywheels, although i'm a bit affraid that my G27 FFB engines will blow up cause the wheel will make much more strong moves and the metal flywheels will never let them slip while turning left or right like it those.

So what do you guys think of this?
 
I haven't open up my G27 to see exactly what the cause of the noise but I have a theory. First every motor I have seen has some small play up and down it's shaft. Second helical gears are cut in a slant which allows the gears contact more smoother than standard gears. The down side is it adds more pressure up and down the axis of gears and motor shaft. When the motor turn left and right very rapidly it will cause it's axis to rattle rapidly up alone it's shaft. If true the only way to solve this would be double helical gears which are harder to manufacture.
 
I haven't open up my G27 to see exactly what the cause of the noise but I have a theory. First every motor I have seen has some small play up and down it's shaft. Second helical gears are cut in a slant which allows the gears contact more smoother than standard gears. The down side is it adds more pressure up and down the axis of gears and motor shaft. When the motor turn left and right very rapidly it will cause it's axis to rattle rapidly up alone it's shaft. If true the only way to solve this would be double helical gears which are harder to manufacture.

so you think all that racket is caused by endplay in the motors? I don't think those little motors would have enough to make all that noise. I do agree, there is some end play in the shaft of any given motor, but thats a pile of pounding to be coming from the motors.... I don't know mind you, but my guess is that this noise is related more to the gears themselfs... I know they are helical cut gears, but that only reduces whining while in movement... any slack between the teeth themselfs can still make a racket. Once again, I'm only guessing, as I have never taken mine apart.
 
If you notice, the wheel makes a lot more noise when you turn left, and when you do it in a hard ground or some dirt, it will make a awful nois, like if the gear teeth are failing to grab on each other, thats why i said to take does plastic gears and replace them by some metal gears, cuz metal wouldn't make the teeth to slip on each other, but the dual engines would make a lot more effort to still give that force and im affraid that it would possible damage the engine or ths shaft
 
Best solution is to get used to it.

I bet that if you buy a ferrari and when you reach 60mph it will become unstable and you wouldn't be able to keep accelarating, i bet you would make an effort to get it well, thats what im trying to do with my wheel.
 
Fanatec and Logitech wheels are not Ferrari. That would be the $2600 ECCI ffb wheel. You would be lucky to get a Ferrari with no motor for $300.
 
Fanatec and Logitech wheels are not Ferrari. That would be the $2600 ECCI ffb wheel. You would be lucky to get a Ferrari with no motor for $300.

And so, when i'm not happy with something i try to make it be better and you should do it to, and thats the reason why i created this thread, cuz i wanted to know a way to make it better ;)
 
Well, do you think it's a "broken" clunk or a "normal operation" clunk? I only ask because all Logitech wheels have that "clunky" sound, especially in off road situations... so if it's not actually broken, you probably don't wanna go screwing around with your gears too much.
 
Well, do you think it's a "broken" clunk or a "normal operation" clunk? I only ask because all Logitech wheels have that "clunky" sound, especially in off road situations... so if it's not actually broken, you probably don't wanna go screwing around with your gears too much.

Yeah sure, but i don't understand why does it makes all that noise, my thoughts were that the gear theeth were failing grabing on the shaft but i actually don't make any idea about what makes that song.
 
No best solution is to ask an exchange without this problem :ill:

Sure i would that, the only thing is that all G27 have this problem, and i think that in long terms the clunkicg noise will become a bit louder and it will disturb a lot more.
This cluncking noise is a good FFB sense but makes too much nois, and i would like to keep the FFB feel but improve by lowering the noise it makes.
 
I don't think you need to worry about it getting louder, in fact, as you get used to it, it kinda disappears... I remember at first i was SUPER ANNOYED with the gear whine of my DFP, but later on I just didn't even notice it...
 
Maybe i will, but i really really want to get it fixed, maybe logitech should make part to be sold for this G27 noise fix.
 
Dirt3 developers speak about this problem here (at around 8mn):
http://insidesimracing.tv/videos/view/410/0/Inside-Sim-Racing-Episodes

He doesn't really address the problem (or even what damage was done to the wheel) but many G27 owners who play Dirt 2 was concerned how much wear and tear that game was doing to the wheel. I assume they put this wheel to a real test to see how much it could take so G27 owners does have to worry about destroying their wheel. That was he's whole point, Dirt 3 will not destroy the G27.
I have no doubt G27 can take a lot more punishment than the cheap X360 wireless wheel yet he didn't mention it and probably didn't put it to the test like G27.

@ nMd_pRo
My guess is the talking to "Logitech for a fix" probably has more to do with software and not the G27 wheel noise. More likely they are burning up the ffb motors and making software changes to keep this from happening. (again he didn't say , only my guess) I know my G27 can get pretty hot if I race the X2010 in Gt5 for a long period of time.
 
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yes sometimes it gets hot, but i don't know what you think but for 300€ i think it doesn't should make this noise when hitting a wall/curb/dirt/etc
 
Yeah sure, but i don't understand why does it makes all that noise, my thoughts were that the gear theeth were failing grabing on the shaft but i actually don't make any idea about what makes that song.

If informations from those links I've posted are right, that noise is made when shaft moves thanks to axial clearance of the motors (due to thrust from helical gears) and poorly engineered counter bearings. You can increase strength of the spring (under counter bearings) or add some foam but that can create more pressure on bearings in the motors and as result you can wear them down more quickly.
 
If informations from those links I've posted are right, that noise is made when shaft moves thanks to axial clearance of the motors (due to thrust from helical gears) and poorly engineered counter bearings. You can increase strength of the spring (under counter bearings) or add some foam but that can create more pressure on bearings in the motors and as result you can wear them down more quickly.


Thats what i was thinking i belive that the linkage between the motors and the shaft is to poor in relation with the motors rotation-force, and the shaft gear is not holding that force what happens when the engines counter-rotate is that the shaft gear fails to grab to the motor gears and makes that clunking/slipper noise.
My belives is that if we would replace those gears by some stronger ones the motors would wear out faster, just like you said.
 
Thats what i was thinking i belive that the linkage between the motors and the shaft is to poor in relation with the motors rotation-force, and the shaft gear is not holding that force what happens when the engines counter-rotate is that the shaft gear fails to grab to the motor gears and makes that clunking/slipper noise.
My belives is that if we would replace those gears by some stronger ones the motors would wear out faster, just like you said.

My English is far from perfect but I don't think we talk about same thing.

G27.jpg


At least that what I was thinking after reading this page http://www.jlvrh.de/G27_UK.htm
 
Like I posted before the only way to prevent this by chancing gears is with double helical gears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_helical_gear
Like helical gears, they have the advantage of transferring power smoothly as multiple gear teeth engage and disengage simultaneously. Their advantage over the helical gears is that the side-thrust of one half is balanced by that of the other half. This means that herringbone gears can be used in torque gearboxes without requiring a substantial thrust bearing.

Precision herringbone gears are more difficult to manufacture than equivalent spur or helical gears and consequently are more expensive. They are used in heavy machinery.
 
My English is far from perfect but I don't think we talk about same thing.

G27.jpg


At least that what I was thinking after reading this page http://www.jlvrh.de/G27_UK.htm


Oh sorry, maybe i have expressed my self wrong, my english is a bit poor a belive.

So back to topic.

See those two "yellow(gold)" thing on top of the motors, they are transmiting all the power to the wheel gear (the big black gear), what i was trying to explain is that the conection between those to things is very "slipery", and because of that each time that those grabing teeth fail doing what they should, it makes a clunck noise, and since that fail keep going for a few times it makes all that clunk noise.

Hope you can now understand.


@Zoom!Zoom!- Do you think is possible to replace the G27 Helical gears by some double helical gears?
 
My "best" practical solution would be to replace the helical gears with standard ones like DFGT or G25. There will be only a residual axial movement in that case which will be totally handled by the G27's soft spring loaded counter bearings. No more axial pressure on the motor's rods while turning in a specific direction. That's of course just a quick theory.
I personally have a DFGT (very few hours of operation) and I also have the same rattling issue at high frequency FFB spikes, but it's not so prevalent as it is in the G27's and more important it's not unidirectional or vastly pronounced in one direction since there's no angular push from the gears. So I can just assume that the rattling in DFGT's and G25's are there from the residual axial movement, thus I will attempt to open my wheel at some point and try to put some load on the motor's rod, something like the G27 has "by default". I really hope that it will fix it once and for all. It really bothers me a lot.

EDIT: Just opened my DFGT and applied some pressure on the motors rod. No go. There's no axial movement there to be fixed. It seems like the rattling it's simply from the gears themselves having some gap between them maybe a tenth of a mm or even less. Basically there's a "deadzone" between the cogs and at the right frequency and amplitude it goes all harmonic resonance. It even does the rattling while I'm slightly but fast shaking the wheel with my hands. So, no fix for DFGT... And there seems to be and intermediate wheel in the DFGT's chain, while in the G25/27 the motor directly drives the wheel if I'm not mistaken. In DFGT there's the Motor cog wheel > Intermediate cog wheel > Wheel cog wheel...

Yeah, clearly locking the motor's rod in place and slightly shaking the wheel, moves the intermediate wheel for about ~3 tenths of a mm, while the motor cog wheel it's standing still.
So, in the most part, the "deadzone" it's between the small (plastic) motor cog wheel and the intermediate wheel while there seems to be almost no "deadzone" between the intermediate cog and the final wheel cog.

Sooo... I've ended up just greasing the cogs and sticking two pieces of adhesive foam on the full lock ends as there were slamming plastic on plastic at calibration.
Greasing the cogs just slightly helped with the grinding noise about ~15% as a roughly approximation, but now I've learned why Logitech didn't just filled these wheels with grease... Those motors are spinning reeeealy fast... so... they tend to throw grease allover the place... luckily enough, there's enough coverage from the plastic cogs casing to keep most of that grease in one place...
The two pieces of foam really did the trick though. No more slamming on the full lock. Very good damping.
 
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