What spring rates for the Skyline GTR R33

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Ibonibo

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So basiclly what the title says:

I want full adjustability (stiffness and height)

My choices so far are:
Tein Mono Flex
Bilstein PSS9
Buddyclub
Cusco 2e
MeisterR

Are there others along these, that are equal or better
Recommendations??

Help greatly wanted ;)

Thanks
 
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I've only heard good things about Bilstein shocks. I was considering getting some custom valved models over the Koni's in my car.
 
I've only got experience with TEIN and they seem good, they are definitely reliable at least if nothing else. The roads in my country are comparable to those of a third world country. I have a 5 year old set of TEIN superstreet, that I bought new that are still perfect. I have a 10+ year old set of superdrifts, that are still going well with no leaks.
The superstreet don't go low enough would be my only complaint.
 
Thanks guys.

I opened threads about this on 4 forums :D, so I get the most opinions.


So keep your opinions coming...

Tomorrow or so I will look at the result and then will make my choice.
 
Koni's? I'm not really sure what a BCNR33 but I'm guessing it's some sort of R33 Skyline, but I would have to imagine they'd make something for your car. I think Koni makes something for every application under the sun. If not that I've had several pairs of Bilstein's over the years and I've never had any complaints of the quality or life span.
 
BCNR33 was pretty much the actual chassis name for the R33 Skyline, but of course most people shorten it to R33. S3 Racer's is a GT-R V-Spec, correct me if I'm wrong.

I've only had experience with TEIN as well and it wasn't on my car; only a couple of short drives on B-roads in SIC EM. However several users on Skylines Australia recommend Bilstein and Ohlins; TEIN Mono Flex was said to be alright as well, but I'm pretty sure "alright" wouldn't really cut it for that kinda machine :D . Most of the guys on there also run NISMO swaybars with their setups.
 
Thread title seems to be confusing, so changed it.

@Joey: Konis aren't available for the Skyline. it's really hard to find something German made. Even KW suspension have nothing in their portfolio.
But if I would really want it, they make them on special request but that doesn't come cheap.
I have Bilstein PSS9 (now B16) in the S3 and they rock. Perfect setup from very comfy to really rock solid hard. Only complaint is the setup dial is underneath the car.

@Murcie:
Yeah, you got it right. I even think BCNR was only the GTR and the R33 is the only one with the C in it (for apparently a wierd japanese legislation to declare the 4*4?!). BNR32 or BNR34 otherwise.

Yeah that's about it what i read about Tein too most of the time. And most people defend their setup with their life, but never have tested another maufacturer.
A low budget alternative is a no go for me, that eliminates all the taiwan or chinese products (D2, Bc, Ksport,...) and the japanese counterparts seems to be way to harsh for european roads.
That leaves us with the few european counterparts:
Bilstein (DE)
meisterR (UK) (new adaptive dampers only available in a few months :()
Ohlin. (SE/NO?)

It's probably gonna be Bilstein. Great product, great service, good durability, tested on the Nür.Ring, Gas dampers instead of oil, TUV approved (even if it comes without it, which is due to market reasons, costs too much for such a little market of grey imports)

Still, come on with your opinions
 
Of those, the Bilstein and Cusco products are your best bet. German and Japanese damper tuning philosophies are vastly different; I'll already assume that the Cuscos have much stiffer spring rates and therefore stiffer damping. Most Japanese companies don't tune their dampers for rough road use because the roads and tracks their products are used on are rather high quality. German companies typically have a better damper tune for general use, whereas Japanese companies seem to focus on smooth surface performance, thus less-than-ideal damping curves for dumpy roads and often very stiff spring rates.

You get what you pay for in the end. You should give us some numbers to work with - I'm counting on the Bilsteins being a better choice for daily use than Cusco. Cusco might be a more appropriate brand for the car's personality - it is a Japanese company engineering parts to make a Japanese car perform how Japanese drivers want it to.

Give us some pictures and spring rate info and damper graphs and stuff to work with. Maybe some prices too, because you're talking about $2500+ coilovers here, and that's a serious drop in the bucket.

I can already tell you that the Bilsteins don't have ride-height adjustable lower mounts, which means that you won't be able to lower the car very much with helper springs to keep the spring seated. With Bilstein's design, spring preload is not a separate adjustment from ride height, as is the case on the vast majority of Japanese designs. So already, Cusco is winning the adjustability game. Keep in mind that you'll likely not be adjusting ride height anymore once you get it dialed in, but adjustable lower mounts are nice to have so you never have to worry about the spring wobbling on the perch during droop.
 
^
1st§: That is what I have been reading for days now. Everyone warns me that japanese suspension are very very stiff and hard. They all come with pillow-ball upper mounts which again increases stiffness (though Pillow-ball mounting rocks). In Luxemburg the roads are fairly good, but being a little country I often go abroad. But the question I keep asking myself is: are cuscos, or BClub really that hard on a soft setting?

2nd§: That's the choice I am riddled with! :( or :D? Depends. German suspension, I have some experience with but as you said. Cusco comes good in a GTR (or other)

3rd§: With conversion to € that is quite a good estimate. Will add info below.

4th§: That why at the very beginning I was asking for prices for the japanese suspension, but got kind of afraid by the comments I got about their stiffness. That's why I was again more attracted by the bilstein.
True once you got a good height I rarely change it (exception maybe change rim / tire size, so never).
Stiffness I change for track days, depending on the tracks.

Infos (some are really hard to come by)

-Cuscos Zero 2 :
http://www.cusco.co.jp/en/catalog/sport.html
5 level stiffness adj.
Front 12kg/mm Rear 10Kg/mm

- Buddy Club Junior spec:
15 level stiffness adj.
Front 12/200, Rear 10/240

-MeisterR zeta R
32 level stiffness adj.
MeisterR_Front.jpg

MeisterR_Rear.jpg


- meisterR SRV (only coming out in June)


-Bilstein:
9 level stiffness adj.
PSS10ALL.jpg
 
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So no suspension experts anymore here???

I thought the last days I would go with bilstein (as they were installed stock on the R400 and the R35, it would not go completely against the ethos of the car) but ....
so many choices and no idea, I have the feeling when I choose the Bilstein I will regret not taking others.
And vice versa.

And for the Prices:
Tein +- 900
Bilstein +- 1000
MeisterR +- 1000
BuddyClub +- 1200
Cusco +- 1300

All without postage, install and wheel alignement

because the bilstein are the only ones without pillowball mounts, I would change all the mounting points for PU (powerflex or nismo counterparts)
 
I want to mention, Buddy Club is made by HSD on Korea. Same guys that make Stance, DG5, Driftworks, though not necessarily to the same specifications, and not necessarily crap either.

I would vote Bilstein PSS9, but iirc they have progressive springs, which is "street compliant" but often not the best performing, and they don't have much ride height adjustability.

EDIT: MeisterR look like generic Taiwan coils.
 
^
1st§: That is what I have been reading for days now. Everyone warns me that japanese suspension are very very stiff and hard. They all come with pillow-ball upper mounts which again increases stiffness (though Pillow-ball mounting rocks). In Luxemburg the roads are fairly good, but being a little country I often go abroad. But the question I keep asking myself is: are cuscos, or BClub really that hard on a soft setting?
Your question implies a fundamental misunderstanding of suspension tuning.

The damper adjuster adjusts the damping rate, not the spring rate. Stiff spring rates are stiff, that's just the way they are. Basically, for any given spring rate there is one damper tune that absorbs spring oscillation the way it's supposed to. You can adjust the car's ride "quality" or the handling balance by adjusting the damper rates, but it's not the correct way to change those characteristics from an engineery point of view. The proper way to change a car's ride or handling balance would be to change spring rates and damper tunes togther, to make sure that the two things are compatible with one another.

When you get your coilovers you might be like me and spend weeks driving on all sorts of roads and all sorts of surfaces at various speeds to find damper settings that absorb bumps the best in most situations. Then you'll leave it there, because at that point you've found the sweet spot as far as those dampers are capable. Adjusting from that point to effect ride or handling balance might "work", but it's the wrong way.

Infos (some are really hard to come by)

-Cuscos Zero 2 :
http://www.cusco.co.jp/en/catalog/sport.html
5 level stiffness adj.
Front 12kg/mm Rear 10Kg/mm
12k/10k spring rates are stiff, but considering the weight of the R33, they're not too stiff. The heavier the car, the heavier springs it needs to hold it up. I lean a bit on the hardcore side of these issues, but I would be comfortable with those rates.

What I can tell you is that the Bilstein dampers will have a better tune, and the adjusters should be more effective. What I mean by "better" is that it will not only control body motion effectively but will also absorb high speed bumps a bit better than the Cusco dampers. Japanese damper tunes typically are quite stiff over quick bumps (typical bumpy roads, sadly) because, as I said before, such rough surfaces aren't really common in Japan where their coilovers are intended to be used. That contrasts the US especially, because our roads are freaking terrible.

But the Bilsteins will probably be more expensive also. And they're less adjustable and probably won't go very low. Speed Junkie's Miata is on Ohlins coils and at full low it's still only moderate, whereas the Cuscos will damn near be able to put your GT-R on the ground if you want it.

Honestly, I vote Cusco. You're as close to being German as you can get and yet you've gotten yourself a Japanese sports car. Embrace your inner Japanese motorsports enthusiast and get some Japanese parts. High-end Japanese products like Cusco are just as highly engineered and perfected as anything coming from Europe, though their philosophies may be slightly different.

EDIT: Ah, I see the Cuscos are more expensive than the PSS9s. After looking into it, Alex is right when he suggests that PSS9s are relatively entry-level coilovers. Hell, if you want progressive-rate springs just get some Eibach lowering springs for $250. :lol:

Cusco all the way. For only 300 more you get a fully adjustable real coilover. Plus, the PSS9s use stock top mounts, which is lame. You can use aftermarket ones like you suggested but that costs even more money, probably pushing the total price over that of the Cusco pieces which are a bolt-on affair.
 
I should also have mentioned that the car has a cage in it. So with too much stiffness overall I would need a lifetime suscription to a chiropractor.

PB: Thanks for clearing me up on what and where they come from 👍

Keef:

Cuscos are available in different spring loads. So could them get lower but that would probably take some time for delivery and then I won't get my car for summer :(.
What I fear about the cuscos are not the springs (those you can always change later if undrivable), it's the "only" 5 step adj. of the dampers.
I fear that even their soft setting could be too harsh for road use (we have crappy roads too, not all but they are there) and then you have a car that is too stiff to drive on normal bases and that would spoil the fun of driving the car.

Also found finally some numbers on the Bilsteins:
"The threaded body allows accurate adjustability of the front and rear progressive rate
springs to achieve the vehicle ride height, center of gravity and level of performance
handling desired."

Spring rates are 7k front 8 k rear.

I would love to have pillowballmounts as you can adjust the wheel alignement to your likening.

On lowering the car, I won't slam it down. Probably -10mm on the current state (look at pictures in the thread, it's already sitting nicely on the 18" enkei). I don't want ripped off oil and diff pans :D (probably the front splitter would go first)
So regarding Bilstein, that is in their suggested area.


But damn it Keef! I nearly made my choice for Bilstein, now I am again off looking through the web for the cuscos. ;)

Also a point to consider (not very likely though to needing it) is the warrenty: Bilstein 2 years, Cucso 1year
 
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Sorry didn't get a chance to read it all. but what are you goals and plans for the car.. daily driving, occasional racing etc?
 
No worry.

the car has a cage, and should be useable as daily driver (will be used if weather is good) and track days. So hard is ok, but too hard is not good as even the road for getting to the tracks are in bad condition.

I was now thinking about this setup up:
Bilstein suspension and springs
Cusco pillowball-mounts
Nismo or powerflex buschings

??
 
With whatever you run, you just want a happy medium for spring rates. If this car will split roles, whatever you get should have damper adjustments and should be able to adjust body height independent from the coil preload.

My R33 is a GTS-T which I modified strictly for drifting in relation to my alignments, spring rates, dampers etc.

Ill ask my GT-R buddy who time attacks what he thinks. I have never set and tuned suspension for a R33 GT-R so I cant offer real factual advice.

Ill get back to you bro.
 
If it makes any difference, most dampers, especially Japanese ones, have a more "proper" damper curve when set stiffer, so if given the choice, I'd opt for slightly softer springs and run the dampers stiffer than stiffer springs and have them turned down t full soft.
 
Thanks Biggamehit. Ask about Cusco's

Pb: yeah, I am again at 0. Both Cusco and Bilstein are still in.

My importer couldn't find the Bilsteins, they aren't on the site, and I even rang and the secretary couldn't find them either (3 weeks ago). But I knew they exist and found the serial finally, with the part number I am able to find them in their shop, they are listed in the Uk catalogue. Rofl. Why that is so, I have absolutly no clue.

Now gave my importer the part number, now he should be able to get them. But still undecided. I asked how long it's gonna take for softer springs on the Cusco's. If it's too long I gonna get the setup above (Bilstein, PB-mount, bushings).

I want to drive the car this year :D
 
Now gave my importer the part number, now he should be able to get them. But still undecided. I asked how long it's gonna take for softer springs on the Cusco's. If it's too long I gonna get the setup above (Bilstein, PB-mount, bushings).
If you change spring rates on the Cuscos, I'd go with 10 front 8 rear to keep a similar proportion to stock rates. 10/8 is common on cars like Civics and Miatas, and its stiff, but you should keep in mind that those cars are much lighter than your GT-R and therefore the effective spring rate will be softer on your heavier car and it will ride smoother.

I wouldn't worry too much about the number of damper clicks. It should still have a fairly wide range of adjustment, just bigger gaps in between. My Stance coils have 32 clicks but you can't hardly feel a difference between each one so when I adjust it I go 4 clicks at a time.

As Biggamehit said, having ride height adjustable separate from spring preload is important. The Cuscos have that and the Bilsteins don't. My $1400 Stance coils have it while Speed Junkie's $2200 Ohlins coilovers don't. Pretty much all Japanese or Japan-inspired coilovers do it, and I really don't know why the European companies don't do it more often.

My FC has 9 front 7 rear spring rates, and my dampers are tuned on the stiff side. Not too stiff, because then you feel the "too hard" type of bounce, but somewhere on the stiff side.
 
keef, keef , keef.

Now i am seriously considering the Cuscos Zero 2E again, though on the pricing it's steeper than I though (2400€ installed :nervous::scared::crazy:)

Only thing that still concerns me is that it is a twin tube design.
i know that a good twin tube can be better than a crappy mono, but how do I know if these are??
There are the zero 2R which are mono, but are even costier and harder to get (didn't find them for the sky) and a lot stiffer.

Waiting on the last bits on info from the garage and then it's decision time.

I will come out of the suspension story with an ulcere :yuck::sly:
 
So spring rates?? ;)


What spring rates would you take?
Standard spring rate is
R33 Vspec - F/R - 4.0/5.0
Std - F/R - 3.2/3.2

Cusco std : -F/R- 12/10

I'm stuck between -F/R- 10/9 or 9/9 kg/mm or keep the V-spec ratio with 8/9 (too oversteering?)
I think the Bilstein are around 7/8
 
Well after a talk with my tuner now, I take them as they come 12/10
There were 3 sets of springs that wouldn't delay, any other spring would need a custom one, and then the wait goes up from 2 weeks to 1+1/2 month.

Only softer available was 11/9, the rest were stiffer.

Now the waiting continues.
 
Well after a talk with my tuner now, I take them as they come 12/10
There were 3 sets of springs that wouldn't delay, any other spring would need a custom one, and then the wait goes up from 2 weeks to 1+1/2 month.

Only softer available was 11/9, the rest were stiffer.

Now the waiting continues.
I think you'll be satisified. If the springs are too stiff you could always order from Switft or Ground Control (or Cusco I suppose) and swap them out.
 
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