The Downfall of Sony

Sier_Pinski

Sier_Pinski

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United States
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XizangM1
"Sayonara Sony: How Industrial, MBA-Style Leadership Killed a Once Great Company"
alt1040.com.files.2010.03.sony-vs-wii.jpg


"Who can forget what a great company Sony was, and the enormous impact it had on our lives? With its heritage, it is hard to believe that Sony hasn’t made a profit in 4 consecutive years, just recently announced it will double its expected loss for this year to $6.4 billion, has only 15% of its capital left as equity (debt/equity ration of 5.67x) and is only worth 1/4 of its value 10 years ago! [...] And now, in a nod to Chairman Stringer the new CEO at Sony has indicated he will react to ongoing losses by – you guessed it – another round of layoffs. This time estimated to be another 10,000 workers, or 6% of employees. The new CEO, Mr. Hirai, trained at the hand of Mr. Stringer, demonstrates as he announces ever greater losses that Sony hopes to – somehow – save its way to prosperity with an Industrial strategy.

"Sony was once a marketplace creator, and leader. [But now] Sony’s Industrial Strategy [is] cost-cut first, products are less meaningful. [...] A 'me too' product strategy with little technical innovation that puts all attention on cost reduction would not be a fun place."

I don't exactly know what will happen with the PS4 or the future of Sony's gaming division, but I can guess at this point that the inevitably approaching new generation of gaming may not go too well for Sony. Again.
 
Sony is heavily intertwined with Hollywood, which is probably what's dragging them down. Hollywood is the least forward-thinking industry on the planet. Sony is a Japanese company which means they inherently want to plan and innovate, but when so much of your money comes through such a stubborn place like Hollywood it seems you might end up digging a hole for yourself.
 
I was under the impression that Sony's struggles are due to: 1) Koreans 2) Microsoft

Japanese automakers suffered through the same thing. Except they didn't have to deal with auto-giant equivalent of Microsoft. :scared:

Before Hyundai caught up with the Japanese, surpassing them in a handful of segment, Samsung had already been there done that with the Japanese electronics manufacturers.

I don't believe Sony have much to worry about, as long as they have a game plan. They still have unbelievable amount of assets to make things happen, turn the tide. Personally, I think they need to go into an offense in the electronics segment. Study the rebuilding of the Ford Motor Company under Alan Mulally. Make the cuts, there is no way around it. But you better make sure that it's a part of a pretty darn good plan.
 
In my opinion they need to refocus their assets. There was once a time when I went looking for Sony products because they were the best of the best. Now there is always a better option whether it's a TV, laptop, or whatever else.

The one area I think they got right was the PS3, it was innovative, better hardware than the 360 and they had a pile of high end exclusives.

They need to keep that up with the rest of their products. Get back to basics, make less SKU's and bring costs down by making more of the high end products.
 
Sony today reminds me a lot of GM, honestly. That slack, pseudo-arrogance that seems to permeate, which is alright when the company actually has the products to back it up but just seems sort of sad when the only reason they are sticking it out it because they are trading on past, rapidly-shrinking goodwill.


Toyinster
This very interesting, could we see Microsoft clear up here or perhaps Nintendo fill a void?
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What void of Sony's (an absolutely massive consumer electronics company) could Nintendo (a videogame company) fill?
 
Wow, I always thought their TV's held up nicely against the competition. But it seems they're losing out there to. In my opinion I'd still have a Sony TV over a Samsung TV.
 
Yeah and some aren't bad but as a whole the product lineups of a number of TV manufacturers are usually a better bang for the buck.
 
gorsad
Wow, I always thought their TV's held up nicely against the competition. But it seems they're losing out there to. In my opinion I'd still have a Sony TV over a Samsung TV.
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The joke is that Sony HDTV panels are manufactured by Samsung.
Heck, most of the components are produced by others; Sony just brands them.
The more you know :lol:
 
When I started to claim that Sony is in severe trouble, the whole idea was laughed off. I'm just curious to see whether Sony can recover and what the're going to do in order to achieve that.

And, obviously, what impact it has on the video game sector. Sony's hardly going to be able to go for the same strategy they used with the PS2 and PS3...
Toronado
What void of Sony's (an absolutely massive consumer electronics company) could Nintendo (a videogame company) fill?
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Well, they're being out-done on a few markets, anyways. Which means that there isn't much void for Nintendo to fill, outside of the gaming market. That's my take on it, anyways.
 
Sony isn't going anywhere, at least the Playstation isn't. The Playstation is Sony's only profitable part of their business, if I'm correct. If Sony were to do anything, they'd liquidate their other markets and products in favour of those that are still making them money, i.e. the PS3. So don't worry about the PlayStation. it's not going anywhere.
 
CMvan46
The one area I think they got right was the PS3, it was innovative, better hardware than the 360 and they had a pile of high end exclusives.
Click to expand...

The PS3 is where they went completely wrong though and they've really benefitted a lot lately from having the most up-to-date console and its blu-ray player more than anything else. But the rest of the console is all wrong:
-High royalty fees...this used to be what got Sony success with the PS1! Nintendo and Sega used to have high royalty fees for software released on their consoles and Sony came along and offered lower royalty fees to tempt developers and publishers. Now they have the highest fees for anyone combined with my next point:
-Complex architecture and long development times, the PS3 is reportedly the most difficult for developers to work on. This increases the amount of time it takes to create software and hence increases the cost of development. The PS1 was also great because it was very simple and easy to develop for...
-Vastly inferior interface and design layout. Look at XBox Live, look at how easy it is to communicate with friends and join games and lobbies. Now look at the mess on the XMB. I like the XMB, I like having a simple, straight-forward interface. But they really dropped the ball with the community side of things. As a multimedia device, the XMB is great..as a multiplayer gaming tool..not so much.

And there are a few other niggly issues but those three are the big ones. I don't think anyone can honestly say the PS3 is something Sony has done right. The PS1 and PS2 were fantastic, the PS3 lacks all of the things that made its predecessors great and fails to really do a good job on the new things it brings in (e.g. the PSN).
Not to mention being completely behind the competition with motion controls and backing technology nobody was going to buy into (3d). As well as completely missing the whole point of portable gaming. Then there's the completely pointless PlaystationHome.

I think the main thing Sony has done wrong is spend, spend, spend on new technology without really thinking how best to implement and use it. Basically the typical boardroom "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if...?" decision-making which leads to loads of fancy gadgets that end up being limited to a novelty.

If anything the PS3 is the only thing lately that Sony has produced that hasn't been a flawed mess.

And to think people still like to call me a Sony-fanboy. If Gran Turismo was on another console I really wouldn't have a PS3, sadly. I wouldn't have said that 7 years ago.

And despite all that, the Playstation side of Sony is still the most profitable side if I recall correctly! And not only that, SCEE in particular is the most successful part. But does the money go back into SCEE? Nope!
 
The not-entirely-thought-through "we'll gamble everything on Blu Ray to be a success" thing didn't really help things, either. They blew a ton of money getting that to pay off, but it doesn't seem to me that they took into account the fading consumer confidence in Sony's electronics that Blu Ray winning was supposed to act as a sorta-complimentary good for; since people are buying more of the stuff Blu Ray was supposed to benefit, but they aren't buying that stuff from Sony.
 
Juiposa
Sony isn't going anywhere, at least the Playstation isn't. The Playstation is Sony's only profitable part of their business, if I'm correct. If Sony were to do anything, they'd liquidate their other markets and products in favour of those that are still making them money, i.e. the PS3. So don't worry about the PlayStation. it's not going anywhere.
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The problem is that one of the PS3's selling points has been that it's a relatively cheap Blu Ray player that can do a lot of other stuff that stand alone players can't do. I know a few people who bought a PS3 for that reason alone and haven't even bought a game for it(This was closer to launch). I know that if it weren't for the Blu Ray functionality I would have sold my PS3 and games awhile ago.

This leads to a problem for the PS4 as by the time it comes out there will probably be Blu Ray players selling new for $100(You can get them used for that already). So you have very affordable players plus I wouldn't be shocked if the new Xbox also has a Blu Ray drive, both of those could very well put a big dent in PS4's sales.

I just hope they don't mess up like they did with the PS3, even though it has made a recovery a slow start is never a good thing. I think as long as it's about the same price as the new Xbox and they have one or two of their existing franchises they may get ahead.
 
Sony has lost its “cool” a long time ago. They should at least stop selling their name alone and rethink of their pricing. They still have some awesome products and assets, though. I'd still buy a Sony over other brands. But most of the time, Panasonic and other brands seem more reasonable. I think Sony has two options in order to survive 1.) stay high-end but operate on a much smaller scale (like BMW compared to Toyota), or 2.) concentrate on core products with friendlier pricing in order to compete with Samsung, Panasonic, etc. more. I'd personally go for the latter then pop out some high-end or pro stuff once in a while. Sony's exit to S-LCD Corporation was inevitable. They also sold a couple of factories or plants, I'm not sure what was the reason for selling those, but they should lessen outsourcing and subcontracting and build more home-grown, pure-Sony products (even Samsung is guilty of this with Chimei and AU Optronics, and a whole lot more of other companies do the same thing).
 
Keef
Hollywood is the least forward-thinking industry on the planet.
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I don't know, the music industry is pretty bad too and Sony had their hands in that as well. They need to realise the traditional way of obtaining music is long gone since there are many other options out there now where you can get music for free, like Spotify and Pandora.
 
I meant the whole lot of them when I said Hollywood. They're both so lame it's not worth mentioning them separately. :lol:
 
As long as Sony continues to support the RIAA and legislation such as SOPA, I will continue to avoid their products to as great an extent as possible. When browsing for some new gadget I automatically skip right over the Sony products.

You can buy a new blu-ray player now for less than $100, by the way.
 
Sony can make money if they want cause I still remember 3 of their ads campaigns from years ago.

Sony Bravia, Color like no Other.

I remember those ads with the bouncy balls bouncing down a street in San Fransisco(most remembered & best in my view), or the paint cannon one(another nice one) and who can forget that clay-motion rabbit one?

These ads were a nice thing from Sony and I am sure they helped sales.

They could get gains from ads like these if they wanted to.
 
Sony is a long way from dying:

Sony was always succesful when a national CEO was on board. This is finally the case again. Who is better to understand the philosophy of a japanese company than a Japanese? Stinger was an bad manager and CEO. He is mainly responsible for driving Sony agaisnt the wall

Sony during Stinger drift away from consumer and tried itself in the more B2b business which fonctionned not well due to the complicated structure of Sony that built up since the 80's (a structure so complicated it hindered Sony itself).

Sony will rationalize itself (layoffs, closure of sector, reunite in a more efficent structure,...)

Harai knows Sony needs a future driving product, and they are heavily rumored to work on the next generation of TV (more than just 4k Oled displays).

And the layoffs, i have absolutely no problem with that. In some countries their customer support is absolutely horrid due to sub companies (call centers) involved. fire them.

My hope lays on Harai, who is an sympatic and intelligent man

(on the sony only rebranding, it's only partielly true, the hole industry trades parts between them, and Sony beeing a global player in hhigh quality semi conductors; and Samsung also recieves Panels of Lg for exemple)
 
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*ibo* S3 Racer
Sony is a long way from dying:

Sony was always succesful when a national CEO was on board. This is finally the case again. Who is better to understand the philosophy of a japanese company than a Japanese? Stinger was an bad manager and CEO. He is mainly responsible for driving Sony agaisnt the wall

Sony during Stinger drift away from consumer and tried itself in the more B2b business which fonctionned not well due to the complicated structure of Sony that built up since the 80's (a structure so complicated it hindered Sony itself).

Sony will rationalize itself (layoffs, closure of sector, reunite in a more efficent structure,...)

Harai knows Sony needs a future driving product, and they are heavily rumored to work on the next generation of TV (more than just 4k Oled displays).

And the layoffs, i have absolutely no problem with that. In some countries their customer support is absolutely horrid due to sub companies (call centers) involved. fire them.

My hope lays on Harai, who is an sympatic and intelligent man

(on the sony only rebranding, it's only partielly true, the hole industry trades parts between them, and Sony beeing a global player in hhigh quality semi conductors; and Samsung also recieves Panels of Lg for exemple)
Click to expand...

I hope this becomes a reality.
 
Ardius
The PS3 is where they went completely wrong though and they've really benefitted a lot lately from having the most up-to-date console and its blu-ray player more than anything else.
Click to expand...

Ok and how is that alone not a good thing?

With the PlayStation they popularized a new disc format in Blu rays which is the rest of Sony ws pulling its weight would stand to make massive profits from.

Who cares how hard it is to develop for and how high royalty fees are? If you ask me the PS3 has the better exclusives line up, I've also never heard of a company saying they went 360 exclusive because the PS4 ws hard to develop for...

The user interface is purely personal preference. I like the PS3 because it's simple and there is no moving in and out of tabs to find things.

I save $60 per year because PSN is free and Xbox Live is not. So far I'm up to $180 in savings since I sold my 360.

They are still having strong console sales despite launching a year after the 360 and having a higher price.

I don't see how anybody could say the PS3 was a flop. It's the best gaming system out there today as what your quote says and that is what I'm talking about. They need all their products to be innovative and have a better price to performance ratio.


Oh and this all comes from somebody who is selling their PS3 as soon as fall semester ends and moving to pc gaming.
 
The PS3 wasn't and isn't a flop but it cost way too much to make and a result Sony lost a lot of money on every one sold and for a good few years too. The PS3 isn't the main reason for their struggles though, infact there isn't really a main reason, it's a multiple of things which is why it won't be solved quickly either.
 
If I'm not mistaken their new focus will be Gaming, imaging (Cameras) and the Smartphone markets. I read this a few weeks ago when the new CEO was appointed. Will see if I can dig up the article.

Edit:
Not exactly the same article I read, but basically says the same.

http://www.deadline.com/2012/03/son...ctronics-businesses-and-will-oversee-tv-sets/

But the company says that it is “positioning digital imaging, game and mobile as the three core pillars of its electronics business, and going forward aims to concentrate its resources in these areas to further reinforce the businesses.
Click to expand...
 
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Well, I think with Sony's new range of XPERIA phones, I think Sony may just turn this thing around. Those phones (all from my Mini Pro to the new Xperia Solo and P are amazing!)
 
CMvan46
Ok and how is that alone not a good thing?

With the PlayStation they popularized a new disc format in Blu rays which is the rest of Sony ws pulling its weight would stand to make massive profits from.

Who cares how hard it is to develop for and how high royalty fees are? If you ask me the PS3 has the better exclusives line up, I've also never heard of a company saying they went 360 exclusive because the PS4 ws hard to develop for...

The user interface is purely personal preference. I like the PS3 because it's simple and there is no moving in and out of tabs to find things.

I save $60 per year because PSN is free and Xbox Live is not. So far I'm up to $180 in savings since I sold my 360.

They are still having strong console sales despite launching a year after the 360 and having a higher price.

I don't see how anybody could say the PS3 was a flop. It's the best gaming system out there today as what your quote says and that is what I'm talking about. They need all their products to be innovative and have a better price to performance ratio.
Click to expand...

I didn't say the PS3 was a flop.

The PS3 is the most up-to-date console because it came out last, not because of any better technology it happens to have or a better design. The 360 is very old now and the Wii is based on much older hardware. So I'm basically pointing out here that PS3 sales are helped more because of the timing of its launch than anything its design does any better than any other console because a direct specs-comparison isn't entirely fair.

The Blu-ray player point is (as someone else in this thread has also said) about the fact that very soon Blu-ray players will be much cheaper than a PS3 with a much faster read speed. While it was a good (and very lucky all things considered) decision to build it into the PS3, again, its exaggerated sales because people were buying PS3s just for the Blu-ray player rather than for gaming.

Which brings me back to the royalty fees and development costs. Why should we care? Why does it matter? Because it very much affects the quality and quantity of the games and software that is released for the console. The PS3's main objective is to be a games console...so if its really quite lacking in areas that would help produce more games at a better standard, its obviously not going to be such a great games console.

As for the XMB. I agree that somewhat there is personal taste. And as I stated earlier I actually like the XMB because its simple. All general interfaces should aim to be simple and not too fancy. But, the way the XMB works and loads during games is very slow and clunky when it comes to online community functionality such as text chat, voice chat or basically just using the XMB while in-game.
XBox dashboard/Live is a far superior piece of software when it comes to the community side. This isn't personal taste, its a very distinct difference. You can't honestly sit there and say you really like the clunky loading times of the XMB?

Basically:
XMB - simple and easy to use when not in game but complicated and slow when in-game trying to communicate.
Dashboard/Live - too flashy and busy generally but remarkably quick and simple when in-game trying to communicate.

Therefore the XMB ends up being great as a general media interface but terrible as a gaming interface. And the opposite for the Xbox dashboard/Live.

Is the PS3 the best console at the moment? Well, yes, but why? Because its compeition are very old - it says more about how well produced and supported their rivals are than it does about how good the PS3 is. When the PS3 first came out I wouldn't have agreed it was the best console, for the past few years the 360 has had the far superior line-up of games.
Only now is the PS3 starting to build up a decent library of games for itself but to me its too little too late.
 
I've heard something about the PS4 not being able to play pre-owned games, is this true?
 
My dad was a Sony man, so I grew up one. Sony always did two things great, quality and innovation. Sorry to say but Sony haven't done that in a long while and it's now catching up to them.

Cut things down, get back to making items in Japan, not Korea, China, Taiwan and Mexico, get back to innovating things we actually want or need and they should go back to their formal glory. It's not the end of them.
 

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