Play devil's advocate on M's next car

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
  • 150 comments
  • 3,900 views

Which car should I get?

  • BMW 330i ZHP Performance Package

    Votes: 16 27.6%
  • Infiniti G35 Coupe 6MT

    Votes: 16 27.6%
  • Mazda RX-8 GT

    Votes: 16 27.6%
  • None of the above (specify)

    Votes: 10 17.2%

  • Total voters
    58

///M-Spec

Staff Emeritus
4,928
I was going to post this in Cars, but its not general enough to put there since its specific to me, so here it is.

I'm trying to decide on a car to replace my M3 sedan this summer. Its been a wonderful car, but its getting on in the years and its time for me to move on.

The requirements are simple. In order of priority, the new car must have four seats with ample space for a child seat, offer enough practicality to use as a daily driver and long distance tourer, offer top drawer handling and be a minimum mid 14 second car. After much debate on whether to go new or used, I decided it needs to be brand new. Price cap is USD $40,000.

The three finalists, in order of price: Mazda RX-8 6MT Grand Touring Package, Infiniti G35 Coupe 6MT Premium Package, BMW 330i 6MT M-Technic/ZHP Performance Package. Honorable mentions inlcude Lancer Evolution, A4 3.0 Quattro and Mustang Mach 1.

The wife HATES the RX-8. She told me it was ugly little kid's car. As many of you know, I'm rather fond of the 8. I like the G35, but feel it is the weakest of the three in the driving experience dept and it doesn't offer much of a space advantage over the 8. It does have a very polished GT feel to it and is the quickest one of all three --in a straight line.

I told myself I was going to take a break from BMW for a few years and try something new, but I've heard and read so many overwhelmingly positive things about the 330i ZHP package I felt compelled to consider it. (the ZHP has 235 horsepower, more aggressive M-Technic suspension tuning, bigger wheels, shorter gearing and unique interior trim)

In fact, despite it being almost 10 grand more expensive than the 8 and right up against the price cap, the ZHP is both my wife and my first choice. It has the most room by far, highest level of build quality, does the GT job just fine, yet has enough suspension moxie to tumble with the RX-8 in the twisty stuff. It even has a trick Alcantara (suede) interior.

Play devil's advocate. Talk me into something else. Show a flaw in my logic. If you were in my seat, which would you choose? Comments definately welcome. Please try to make them constructive.


M
 
Originally posted by DQuaN
How about a Subaru or Audi S3

I thought about a WRX STi, but decided the Evolution was more to my liking. I drove one and loved it --for about 15 minutes. Then the choppy ride quality made me wonder if I was willing to put up with it on a daily basis. Amazing car in every other regard, though.

If you factor in the fact that my wife and I regularly take long trips out of town by car, the Evo and Scooby are not realistic propositions for us.

As for the S3, we don't get that one here.


M
 
Or how about an sti wagon? I dont know if the ride is any better but it is more practical without sacrificing much performance.
 
Originally posted by DQuaN
Or how about an sti wagon?

Sadly, we don't get that here either. A regular WRX wagon is available, but I doubt it can keep up with the other three in the handling dept.


M
 
hmmm....you don't get much do you, the S3 is a peach of a car. Where are you anyway? US?
 
Originally posted by DQuaN
hmmm....you don't get much do you, the S3 is a peach of a car. Where are you anyway? US?

Yep. Our choices are limited, unless you're talking about SUVs, which seem to be all my countrymen want these days.

We do get the S3's cousin, the VW Golf R32. I am not fond of the Golf/Jetta platform as a performance driver's car, however. My wife has a Jetta 1.8T. It is a fine daily driver and good value for the money, but has a lot of shortcomings as a focused driver's car.


M
 
I am not fond of the Golf/Jetta platform as a performance driver's car,

W8 Passat, TL, IS300???

I don't know if any of those can do the quarter mile in less than 14. I think that the AMG C55 is out the price range, and the C320 is probably too slow.

What about 2-door 3 series? Ever consider the dodge magnum?
 
Hmmm. . . The Devil inside me says an Evolution RS. . . But that will fall into little kids car. . . Possible a Pontiac GTO, but I don't believe that it would fit the requirements needed by you. . . Out of the cars you chose, I would say the 330. . . It is a tough decision. . .


*Below* Auto. . . WTF are you smoking???

If that is the way M I loss all respect :lol:
 
If you don't mind the extra cash spent, I'd go the 330. I drove one with m-package and auto transmission and it handles like a dream while being the most practical of the 3. If cost is an issue I'd go with a G35 sedan, as there's not much difference in terms of handling and performance when compared to the 2 door version.
 
So, are we looking at a price range in the low 30s?

If so, I would love it if you bought a Hemi Magnum (as danoff mentioned), or a Hemi 300C. Their interiors are a bit low grade, but everything else I've heard about them has been great. :)👍 I want my dad to get a Magnum, but our Outback's too new for replacing.
 
How about an Acura TSX?

Seriously, if you like the BMW, then get it. You'll pay up-front for your scheduled service intervals, but that will be nice for you down the road.

And I didn't even mention Lexus in the whole post. (Ooops.)
 
I'd say go with another BMW. They just flatout kick arse.

Did you test drive an STi? I believe Car and Driver said the ride was more comfortable... Or was that the Evolution? Damnit, they're so close to the same I forget which is better at what.
 
Thanks everyone for you input. It is appreciated.

Originally posted by milefile
I would get the G35 out of the options you have listed above.

On paper, the G35 just blows everything else away. It is quicker than the BMW and Mazda in the 1320, larger, better looking and better built than the Mazda, less expensive than the BMW but has more power and includes a limited slip diff whereas the 330i makes due with an open diff and DSC.

Something about how it drives, though. It is heavy and ponderous feeling. The chassis is capable, but rather inert and devoid of dynamic charm. It does not cope with mid-corner bumps well; it clomps over them rather than absorbing them like the BMW and Mazda does. It is rather like a Mercedes-Benz in that regard.

Originally posted by danoff
W8 Passat, TL, IS300???

I don't know if any of those can do the quarter mile in less than 14. I think that the AMG C55 is out the price range, and the C320 is probably too slow.

What about 2-door 3 series? Ever consider the dodge magnum?

The W8 Passat will exceed my price cap by several thousand (when equipped with a manual). It is also much larger car than I want (weight is the enemy).

The TL is another great package on paper. But it is FWD and I hate ---no, loath with an unholy passion-- torque steer.

Yes, all the AMG cars are out of my price range. As well as current new M cars. :( I could get a used 2000 or 01 M3... but I don't want to spend 40 large for a used car... even that car.

IS300. Very good little car. Maybe I should take another look at it. I forgot about this one. Thanks, danoff.

3-Series Coupe. ZHP equipped Ci is just out of my price range. Regular ZSP (sports package) cars just are not aggresively tuned for me. The E36 M3 has spoiled me forever with its legendary ride/handling compromise.

Dodge Magnum. Now THAT'S an intriguing option. Are they out yet?


M
 
Originally posted by miata13B
Possible a Pontiac GTO, but I don't believe that it would fit the requirements needed by you. . .

*Below* Auto. . . WTF are you smoking???

If that is the way M I loss all respect :lol:

The GTO looks pretty hot. Do I have to wait till fall to try one? 3800 lbs, though... that doesn't bode well for the handling.

And yes unfortunately, BMW does offer the ZHP with an automatic tranny. Fortunately, I will never, ever order one so equiped. Stick all the way.


Originally posted by jpmontoya
If cost is an issue I'd go with a G35 sedan, as there's not much difference in terms of handling and performance when compared to the 2 door version.

Both coupe and sedan sit comfortably in my price range. I won't consider the sedan while the coupe is there. The coupe is just too damn sexy looking. The coupe is rated at 280 hp, while the sedan rates 260. The sedan is also a little heavier. Coupe wins.


M
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
The GTO looks pretty hot. Do I have to wait till fall to try one? 3800 lbs, though... that doesn't bode well for the handling.
M
I believe they are in the dealers now and possibly be able to test drive them. . . Not 100% sure though I haven't been by a Pontiac dealership sober in a while - It is on my way home from downtown when I go out. . . I thought I saw one. . . :odd: not sure though. . . Taxi rides blow monkey dong btw. . .
 
Originally posted by Sage
So, are we looking at a price range in the low 30s?

Yes. Looks like $31k (RX-8) to $40K (ZHP) seems to be my split.

300C. I don't know much about this car. Is it out yet?



Originally posted by pupik
How about an Acura TSX?

Seriously, if you like the BMW, then get it.

And I didn't even mention Lexus in the whole post. (Ooops.)

TSX .... can't... stand... torque... steer... ugh....;)

Does Lexus have an L-Tuned IS300?


M
 
What about getting a used IS300 and a GS 430 engine. . .hmm. . . oh wait that has been done :lol:
 
Oops, you have 40K to play with. If you haggle, you might get yourself into a GS300, with leather and a sunroof.

By what I see at work, GS300's have a lot less problems than the IS300. No, it's not going to be as sporty as the IS, but you'll have a nice rear-drive sedan with great reflexes and a very smooth power delivery. Don't expect limit-breaking 0-60 times, but you'll have no trouble with leg room. Bulid-quality is excellent, workmanship of materials in the IS defenitely a notch below the GS, in my opinion. Attracts less attention, which may or may not be a bad thing. Plus, you might talk a salesman down when you mention the new GS due to arrive in early-to-mid-2005...

I still think from what you want, the BMW's the best choice. Although, I'd prefer the RX-8 because it's something different.

People with kids in child seats have told me that "ease of entry into the rear seats" is quite an advantage, if you've got a kid....4 doors might be more your thing.
 
Originally posted by miata13B
*Below* Auto. . . WTF are you smoking???

If that is the way M I loss all respect :lol:

I wouldn't choose auto, nor the owner, he just got a really good deal on a BMW driving school car with less than 3K miles on it. Still this auto tranny has a very good response... for the price he paid I wouldn't mind.


and yes, the G35 Coupe is way more sleek than the sedan, it all depends on your priorities... without kids I'd go for it.
 
Originally posted by Goomba
Did you test drive an STi?

Nope. Not yet. I probably will, but I'm afraid to. When I drove the Evo, I tried to talk myself into one.


Originally posted by milefile
I would take a look at a 300C as well. Ever consider an M45?

I think I'll head over the Chrysler's website about the 300C...

M45. Too pricey. No manual transmission. (I should have stated that was a requirement)


M
 
Originally posted by milefile
My dad had a coupe when my sister and I were little kids. It's doable, little kids can squezze in anywhere.

I know, used to do 10+ hours trips in the back of a Tran-Am as a kid. :irked: (or worse, a YJ) But rear doors + child seats doesn't sound practical to me... maybe I'm a bit lazy.
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Dodge Magnum. Now THAT'S an intriguing option. Are they out yet?
I'm not positive, but if they're not out yet, they should be within several weeks.

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
300C. I don't know much about this car. Is it out yet?
Ditto Magnum comment. ;)

The 300C Hemi starts at $32,995, and the Hemi Magnum starts at $29,995, both with 340HP and 390 LBS torque, rear-wheel drive.
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Nope. Not yet. I probably will, but I'm afraid to. When I drove the Evo, I tried to talk myself into one.

Come the way of the Subaru. :D

I haven't take corners hard in the WRX, but handling is crisp and I haven't encountered understeer. Yet. I'll tell ya how it goes after the 18th (next autocross)
 
I have recently driven my firend's g35 coupe from san francisco to sacramento, a good 2 hour drive. It was at night and the made a boring ride seem even more droll... It is not so much the power, but the interior of the car that affected me... the dash adn controls were just glaringly orange it really makes the car seem horribly hard to drive after long stretches... Maybe its just me... But its not like crappy interiors have ruined my driving experience before. I used to drive a eclipse GS which doesnt have the best of all interiors, but I hasnt affected in the same way... I cant really put my finger on it but that is how the car made me feel... sleepy heavy and bored...
 
Originally posted by Sage
The 300C Hemi starts at $32,995, and the Hemi Magnum starts at $29,995, both with 340HP and 390 LBS torque, rear-wheel drive.

Well it looks like a contender in the large sedan segment and certainly has the power to give pause to a 545i or M45. On paper, the car looks very impressive. Kudos to Chrysler for going back to a RWD platform.

But it looks like it weighs closer to 4000 lbs than 3000 lbs. That's really a much larger and heavier car than I'm looking for.

Plus, no stick.


M
 

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