The Rally Experience: Point-to-Point Stages?

JohnBM01 · May 26, 2004

Nothing is more realistic in rally than point-to-point rally racing. With rally being the little-discussed aspect of Gran Turismo 4, it is time I ask for if you think point-to-point rallies should be in GT4.

Think about being able to race a few stages of Monte Carlo, Sweden, Argentina, Acropolis, Safari, German, Japanese (yet to be shown), or the high-speed Finland rally. Closed-circuit rallies are still fun, but with rally courses now being tighter and twister, do you think there will be a chance of having these more realistic rallies? Think of this as a rally championship. And this will add more courses to GT4, so if they wanted to pull this off, maybe 3 or 4 segmented stages should be implemented. The original Need for Speed demonstrated point-to-point racing best as you had a Start line, a checkpoint miles away, then a second course, then a third course with the finish line intact.

Should there be such races in GT4? Rally fans, sound off! And don't forget, this can also mean GT cars trying out such a race. And victory isn't guaranteed because you crossed the line at one stage in first place. Points would be handed if you complete all stages. If they do this, I would like to see a minimum of three stages, but MAYBE a maximum of 6 or 10.

Enough from me. Reply now. Sound off!

nael_scorpio · May 26, 2004

You beat me to it,,, :cheers:

I was going to start that thread,,, nice 👍
Well, I remember the Pikes Peak stage on GT2, and it was great to change the setting on the car depending on the track direction,,(up hill / down hill)

I hope they have more of the same on GT4, they had some that had different conditions depending on the direction of the track in GT3 (cant remember the name of the track)

But I loved the point to point tracks,,,

35mm · May 26, 2004

Obviously I would prefer point-to-point rally races (they are more challenging and, as you said, its adds to realism), but I understand that they are a limitation when it comes to making races with other opponents on track and even in Time Attack mode.

Oh, and ideally they would have to be really extense in order to work properly I guess.

But although it was strange to play in, I loved Pikes Peak in GT2 (the only course like that in the GT series, I guess) and I hope we can get a bunch of point-to-point rally courses in GT4.

Taowulf · May 26, 2004

Originally posted by JohnBM01
Nothing is more realistic in rally than point-to-point rally racing. With rally being the little-discussed aspect of Gran Turismo 4, it is time I ask for if you think point-to-point rallies should be in GT4.

Think about being able to race a few stages of Monte Carlo, Sweden, Argentina, Acropolis, Safari, German, Japanese (yet to be shown), or the high-speed Finland rally. Closed-circuit rallies are still fun, but with rally courses now being tighter and twister, do you think there will be a chance of having these more realistic rallies? Think of this as a rally championship. And this will add more courses to GT4, so if they wanted to pull this off, maybe 3 or 4 segmented stages should be implemented. The original Need for Speed demonstrated point-to-point racing best as you had a Start line, a checkpoint miles away, then a second course, then a third course with the finish line intact.

Should there be such races in GT4? Rally fans, sound off! And don't forget, this can also mean GT cars trying out such a race. And victory isn't guaranteed because you crossed the line at one stage in first place. Points would be handed if you complete all stages. If they do this, I would like to see a minimum of three stages, but MAYBE a maximum of 6 or 10.

Enough from me. Reply now. Sound off!

So basically, you want a rally series race. Not single races on the same track like in GT3.

livemusic · May 26, 2004

It would be great if they do that. Point-to-point races are better then Lap races.(in rally mode that is)

nael_scorpio · May 26, 2004

Originally posted by FatAssBR
It would be great if they do that. Point-to-point races are better then Lap races.(in rally mode that is)

i think so also,,

GT4 wants to be a profesional racing game,,,
point to point on other modes would be much like a street racing game,,,

i agree with,,er,, FatAssBR's point,,ahem,,

sinbad · May 26, 2004

Originally posted by FatAssBR
It would be great if they do that. Point-to-point races are better then Lap races.(in rally mode that is)

Unless of course, you like rally cross . Which is what I always assumed GT's "rally" mode was about anyway.
It is a strange blend between Special Stage timed rally events and rallycross however, you'd not be likely to find spectators jumping out in front to take a picture at a rallycross event, just as you'd never have more than one car on a special stage without at least 2 minutes to seperate them

It's like rallycross, on a widened and looped special stage with WRC cars. Would be an interesting addition to the WRC tour schedule to say the least

Eagle · May 26, 2004

Taowulf: We want rally stages ala WRC. One car by itself, 2 minutes between them, racing against each other via the clock. You race from one point to another ala Pike's Peak in GT2.

I'd love to see it. I think Rally Mode as it is is quite a let down, it's lame imo, I've never really enjoyed it. Some of the circuits like Tahiti Maze are pretty cool but some just bore me. It isn't rallying as most of us know and love it.

KSaiyu · May 26, 2004

I hope there will be point to point stages, I found Grand Canyon in Prologue boring after a while.

Greyout · May 26, 2004

One problem you face is the size of the tracks for a rally of any significant length.

How realistic would your rally racing be if your point-to-point races were 2-3 minutes long? By creating a closed circuit, you can have 15 minutes of rally racing without having to have 5 different tracks.

How much of the CD do you want to devote to rally racing? Because unless you want the whole rally series to take you 15 minutes to beat (maybe 30 minutes if you run the stages backwards) you'd have to create a lot of rally racing scenery and track layout.

Dave A · May 26, 2004

Originally posted by sinbad
Unless of course, you like rally cross . Which is what I always assumed GT's "rally" mode was about anyway.
It is a strange blend between Special Stage timed rally events and rallycross however, you'd not be likely to find spectators jumping out in front to take a picture at a rallycross event, just as you'd never have more than one car on a special stage without at least 2 minutes to seperate them

It's like rallycross, on a widened and looped special stage with WRC cars. Would be an interesting addition to the WRC tour schedule to say the least

Rlly cross tracks are quite different to GT's rally tracks. A rally cross track is a purpose built circuit and the off road sections are rather flat and the only scenery is mud bankings and fields and the grandstands when you get on the tarmac sections of track. They are usually built on the infields of larger road circuits like brands hatch and Silverstone.

Firestarter75 · May 26, 2004

I saw some rallycross racing on Speed and was most impressed. Very fun to watch and exciting racing. The transitions from pavement to dirt and vice versa were very difficult alone much less when fighting for position.

Sleek Stratos · May 27, 2004

Originally posted by Greyout
One problem you face is the size of the tracks for a rally of any significant length.

How realistic would your rally racing be if your point-to-point races were 2-3 minutes long?

It'd be realistic to an extent, some stages in the actual WRC are only 5-6 kms long, so they only last about 2-3 minutes.

Take one of the best games, Colin McRae 2.0 for instance. The longest stage (time wise) in CMR2 is about 3:25.xx-3:30.xx, the rest are about 2:00.xx-2:30.xx, some are even under a minute, but I wouldn't say it takes away from the game. If they're that short it means they can cram more of them in, plus as you said you could run them backwards too.

I've heard WRC3 has some 17 kms stages, which would take about 8-9 min (though I'm just guesstimating here) that's gotta be sweet.

ND4SPD · May 27, 2004

I think it'd be a great idea of having point to point, racing, I've always got annoyed from the fact that the rally races were on a closed course. GT2 had only one point to point race right? I believe it was pikes peak, That was fun, but why only rally, why not have a point to point race with normal cars on normal tarmac tracks?

livemusic · May 27, 2004

Originally posted by ND4SPD
why not have a point to point race with normal cars on normal tarmac tracks?

I think that if they did that it would become a little unrealistic as the rally mode is.

Dr. Bojangles · May 27, 2004

ive been thinkin about point-to-point since i started the rallying in gt3, and i think it would make the experience so much better, yet it would probly take a LOT more time and i want the damn game to come out already :banghead:

AP1 · May 27, 2004

I loved the Pikes Peak Hill Climb track back in GT2.

Eagle · May 27, 2004

I agree with Sleek, the stages wouldn't have to be all that long to still be reasonably realistic point to point events. We have the Nordschleife now so certainly some decent size stages would be possible.

Greyout is of course correct that you can get more racing from a smaller space doing lap based events. As ever it's a balancing act.

-}=Dr={-Devil-} · May 27, 2004

Point To Point Races is how rally is supposed to be!
Remember! This aint RallyCross... Its Rally.

Cant wait till GT4

JohnBM01 · Jun 28, 2004

I'm updating this topic as Eagle linked this thread. And in so, TheCracker made his points about a rally cross series. Now just last night, "Motorsport Mundial" had some glorious Rallycross Action at Knockhill. Seen an MG Metro 6BR (correct name?), a newer Mini Cooper, Ford Focus, and even the mid-engined Lotus Exige battle it out rallycross style. Now if GT4 wants to go the rallycross route, look to some of the CORR off-road tracks here in America. Or perhaps imagine a rally course in an indoor stadium, like "Wario Stadium" from Mario Kart 64 (Nintendo 64).

I see the rallying more as a regular rally in GTs 2 and 3. With GT4 to have more challenging rally courses (I'm actually intimidated), I mentioned the chances of a point-to-point rally system. So with this update, you can still reply about it. I mean, this is my way of saying "we are NOT running out of things to talk about. There's still plenty of discussion to be had." Because after all, times change. You'll want to keep up with things so that you can get a handle on what is going on with GT4. So in any event, mosey on with the replies.

phantasm · Jun 28, 2004

point to point would be great... but agreed as stated above may be an issue with tracks... easier to implement would be having some rally series (not just one off races) and having more competitors (maybe not necessarily on course with you, but at least have the minimum 6 car field, even if you're racing against their times ~ assuming the AI will put up decent times :scared:

~).

usernamed · Jun 28, 2004

Eagle
Taowulf: We want rally stages la WRC. One car by itself, 2 minutes between them, racing against each other via the clock. You race from one point to another ala Pike's Peak in GT2.

👍 Fully agrees. This would add a lot to the "entertaining" rally stages of GT3.

JohnBM01
And victory isn't guaranteed because you crossed the line at one stage in first place. Points would be handed if you complete all stages. If they do this, I would like to see a minimum of three stages, but MAYBE a maximum of 6 or 10.

That would be the greatest thing for GT4 rallying. I just recently completed the GT3 rally stages and let me tell you that it was some pretty boring stuff..(Especially in Smokey Mountain) Most of the stages included non-stop accelaration with a hint of the e-brake.

Transforming each lap at SM into different point-to-point stages of a course would really put the BANG back in the rally mode of the GT series.

den brakke · Jun 28, 2004

I love to see point-to-point stages in GT4, not only in rally but also in roadracing.
I'd love to do some hillclimbing in granturismo4.

Buggy Boy · Jun 28, 2004

I like the tracks as they are in GT2 and GT3. Wide, and close loop. I wouldn't mind racing against 5 opponents on them, must be a challenge, as long as they're wide enough.

Pikes Peak was great too however. Hope it returns.

Dave A · Jun 28, 2004

No point to point road racing, you don't see GT cars racing from Manchster to Liverpool. Maybe they could add something like goodwood where it's p2p but on a tarmac surface so you can use any car but nothing further than that.

phantasm · Jun 28, 2004

^ exactly live... this is Gran Turismo not Cannonball Run

Point-to-point for Rally is alright, cause that's how WRC does it and the courses are uber narrow.

Eagle · Jun 29, 2004

I found Sprint more enjoyable than normal racing in NFSU because it's more tense but also a longer, more varied race... I'm beginning to wonder about the logistics of a progress load system... Map in a huge track, 12k long, but only load section as needed... The access time and stream speed for the PS2 might be able to do it if memory is that tight... Having a system that actively discards parts of the track from memory would be hard though...

JohnBM01 · Jun 29, 2004

The reason why I mentioned road racing rallies is because since you have historically-significant cars, GT racing then began on long trails around Europe. If you have Gran Turismo 2, you can simply look up [some of] the history of Grand Touring. I heard races went from England to Rome, Italy... but I'm not sure, as I don't have a copy of that manual close to me. So that's why I mentioned P2P rallies.

Burnout 2 had point-to-point races as well. The tracks were at maybe no less than 3 miles. So, maybe a short racing series on city streets would be nice. Or imagine this. Imagine the Nurburgring Nords... (I'm going to call it "Nurburgring Nords" from now on until I can remember how to spell the other word), being broken up into a 5-race series. So one race = 1/5 of the Nurburgring course. And do it for the five divisions of the track. It's not a real rally race, but it may be an interesting way to compensate.

Or do you have your own ideas? That's why you think about topics then provide your commentary. Reply right away if you have your own ideas. Consider the history of GT racing when talking about the P2P races. Also, maybe imagine Targa rallies and that "Great American Race" (the real one, not the NASCAR ad for Daytona) featuring the vintage automobiles. Or maybe imagine a rally race along the (some of you might like this) Copacabana Beach in Rio de Janerio, Brazil (guess whose 'hood that is on GTPlanet). Don't prefer Rio? Then what about Bondi Beach in Sydney where my boy Eagle is from? Go for it, ladies and gentlemen!

JohnBM01 · Jun 29, 2004

So Eagle, based on what you posted, why do you think people often fussbudget with point-to-point races? I mean, why do you think that others would want P2P events like Pikes Peak?

yeti · Jun 29, 2004

From the pics we have seen... isn't Las Vegas a P2P track?

C.

The Rally Experience: Point-to-Point Stages?

JohnBM01

21 years!

nael_scorpio

35mm

~

Taowulf

livemusic

nael_scorpio

sinbad

Eagle

KSaiyu

Greyout

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life

Firestarter75

Sleek Stratos

ND4SPD

livemusic

Dr. Bojangles

AP1

Eagle

-}=Dr={-Devil-}

JohnBM01

21 years!

phantasm

usernamed

den brakke

Buggy Boy

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life

phantasm

Eagle

JohnBM01

21 years!

JohnBM01

21 years!

yeti

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