4 Weeks Of Results With A New System

First off and most importantly,
Look over these results closely and compare each set from each week.

GoKents: Week 91

Division 1
0'56.204 GT3mich
0'56.251 icemanshooter
0'56.279 Thurzo
0'56.316 Luxy FTO LM
0'56.452 Tuff240 FTO LM
0'57.065 TehBorderican
0'57.786 RacyBacy Impreza LM
0'57.799 hellnback Impreza LM
0'58.853 Smallhorses Impreza LM
0'58.940 Monty Impreza LM
0'58.984 flat-out

Division 2
0'56.920 mrdpunto
0'57.076 NielsG FTO LM
0'57.258 Touge Master FTO LM
1'00.555 k2racer

Division 3
1'03.687 SpeedZoner-T
1'07.604 dub c Impreza LM

Click to expand...

Week 91: The New Way
Gold Times
0'56.204 GT3mich
0'56.251 icemanshooter
0'56.279 Thurzo
0'56.316 Luxy FTO LM
0'56.452 Tuff240 FTO LM
0'56.920 mrdpunto

Silver Times
0'57.065 TehBorderican
0'57.076 NielsG FTO LM
0'57.258 Touge Master FTO LM
0'57.786 RacyBacy Impreza LM
0'57.799 hellnback Impreza LM
0'58.853 Smallhorses Impreza LM
0'58.940 Monty Impreza LM
0'58.984 flat-out

Bronze Times
1'00.555 k2racer
1'03.687 SpeedZoner-T
1'07.604 dub c Impreza LM

GoKents: week 90

Division 1
1'08.380 Tannis
1'08.442 Thurzo
1'08.933 Luxy
1'09.339 icemanshooter23
1'09.617 tuff240
1'09.628 RacyBacy
1'09.934 Smallhorses

Division 2
1'09.239 Touge Master
1'09.409 NielsG
1'09.525 jadaman
1'09.579 Michael K
1'09.645 foolio
1'09.946 flat-out
1'09.952 sjaak68
1'10.140 AmsevenCrx
1'10.413 hellnback
1'10.630 Jeankepler
1'11.242 k2racer

Division 3
1'09.995 Don Mejillone
1'10.393 Firestarter75
1'10.504 mrdpunto

Click to expand...

Week 90: The New Way
Gold Times
1'08.380 Tannis
1'08.442 Thurzo
1'08.933 Luxy

Silver Times
1'09.239 Touge Master
1'09.339 icemanshooter23
1'09.409 NielsG
1'09.525 jadaman
1'09.579 Michael K
1'09.617 tuff240
1'09.628 RacyBacy
1'09.645 foolio
1'09.934 Smallhorses
1'09.946 flat-out
1'09.952 sjaak68
1'09.995 Don Mejillone

Bronze Times
1'10.140 AmsevenCrx
1'10.393 Firestarter75
1'10.413 hellnback
1'10.504 mrdpunto
1'10.630 Jeankepler
1'11.242 k2racer

GoKents: week 89

Division 1
1'17.990 Luxy
1'18.229 RacyBacy
1'18.424 hellnback
1'18.538 GT3mich

Division 2
1'18.415 tuff240
1'18.930 eghybrid
1'18.981 jadaman
1'19.027 NielsG
1'19.032 Sjaak68
1'19.598 AmsevenCrx
1'20.313 Jeankepler
1'20.335 k2racer
1'20.943 Pink the Floyd
1'21.986 flat-out

Division 3
1'19.790 Don Mejillone
1'19.878 Firestarter75
1'19.934 mrdpunto

Click to expand...

week 89: The New Way
Gold Times
1'17.990 Luxy
1'18.229 RacyBacy
1'18.415 tuff240
1'18.424 hellnback
1'18.538 GT3mich
1'18.930 eghybrid
1'18.981 jadaman

Silver Times
1'19.027 NielsG
1'19.032 Sjaak68
1'19.598 AmsevenCrx
1'19.790 Don Mejillone
1'19.878 Firestarter75
1'19.934 mrdpunto

Bronze Times
1'20.313 Jeankepler
1'20.335 k2racer
1'20.943 Pink the Floyd
1'21.986 flat-out

Gokents: week 88

Division 1
1'32.942 Thurzo
1'33.512 Herman
1'33.643 Tomski
1'33.944 GT3mich
1'34.521 Barbol

Division 2
1'33.733 Luxy
1'34.620 jadaman
1'34.946 tuff240
1'34.948 Sjaak
1'35.029 hellnback
1'35.331 NielsG
1'35.432 RSCosworth
1'35.912 Jeankepler
1'36.292 markprichard
1'36.604 K2racer
1'37.423 flat-out
1'37.904 AmsevenCrx

Division 3
1'34.250 antihero
1'36.856 Don Mejilone

Click to expand...

Week 88: The New Way
Gold Times
1'32.942 Thurzo
1'33.512 Herman
1'33.643 Tomski
1'33.733 Luxy
1'33.944 GT3mich

Silver Times
1'34.250 antihero
1'34.521 Barbol
1'34.620 jadaman
1'34.946 tuff240
1'34.948 Sjaak
1'35.029 hellnback
1'35.331 NielsG
1'35.432 RSCosworth
1'35.912 Jeankepler

Bronze Times
1'36.292 markprichard
1'36.604 K2racer
1'36.856 Don Mejilone
1'37.372 Firestarter75
1'37.423 flat-out
1'37.904 AmsevenCrx

Now that you have seen the system...

Now,
Look at how much movement there is and how much room there is for movement.
Take note of the new ordering... All times are listed fastest to slowest.
Also look at how racers are given credit for their race regardless of how well they did the week before. (and of course, the fastest racer each week will still get respect for being the pace setter).

This system gives us flexibility to do well one week and poorly the next without any consequence.
This also gets rid of divisions to worry about, but still allows us to race against rivals (sometimes pushing us to get that gold and not the silver ).

Let's look at a fact, "the podium" is the 3 fastest finishing spots in a race regardless of division (so try and get that "everyone wins mentality out of here) .

Now, with that said, using this system will allow all of us to keep track of how we do beyond just the podiums.
With this system you can keep track of your record through your accumulated medals... (3 golds, 2 silvers... bragging rights bragging rights).

The specifics of this system are subjective.
Yes, I said they are subjective.
Each week I will take the range of results times and establish Clear-Cut boundries between Gold, Silver and Bronze. (always using even amounts of time between categories... 1 second, 1.5 seconds, 2 seconds, etc.)

Overall I believe this system works better.
I know there are other racers who also feel like this and I am sure you will all feel the same.

Please leave you thoughts in a reply and try to be constructive if you can.
This has not become the system yet, but based on feed back and my thoughts over the next few days a perminant decision will be made.

I look forward to hearing back from all of you.
Also, I thank you for reading such a long post.

And please don't quote this unless you must and in that case, please only quote what you must.

btw, this will also get rid of our "caste system"... All of will be racers in the WRS, not d1, d2 & d3 racers who deserve different levels of prestige, honor and respect.

GoKents

using even amounts of time between categories... 1 second, 1.5 seconds, 2 seconds, etc

Click to expand...

Personally, I think this is a good idea but I think there will be people who will have problems (those who are VERY competetive and have had to share first place). I think it will level the playing field more also as no-one will run away with points etc - [sentence doesn't make sense - sorry but hopefully you get what I mean]

Will there be a new table to show amount of races, Golds, Silvers, etc - maybe as a sticky at the top of the WRS thread?

Chris

I think this is an excellent idea! no more divisions just straight racing for a gold silver or bronze 👍 Kent wouldn't have to worry about moving people up and down divisions and people would be trying their best to get a gold time each week, making it more competitive.

It would mean I'd have to re-do the stats on a medal basis from when the change started but I don't mind doing that, it will be much easier

Good idea Kent

Well already changed my signature.....

I like the idea, I will try harder now if I'm just over an expected borderline...

example: a 1.10.004 now probably means you have a different color around your neck

And to be honest, I was always comparing where my time would fit in among others in other divisions, now this is easy..

Let's try it!

k2racer

Well already changed my signature.....

I like the idea, I will try harder now if I'm just over an expected borderline...

example: a 1.10.004 now probably means you have a different color around your neck

And to be honest, I was always comparing where my time would fit in among others in other divisions, now this is easy..

Let's try it!

Click to expand...

And when people get a 1'09.999 and it is a silver time will that give the same satisfaction as a high div.2 rank?
Frankly,I like it as it is now.

Good idea. It's always good to get gold

Is there any chance of splitting up the results for a given week if there are a choice of cars? e.g. Week 91 - a choice between the Impreza and the FTO.

The FTO was the faster car to choose and in this respect someone who races the slower car doesn't get a gold because there are people ahead of them in a faster car. I know that in some WRS races the choice of cars have made a really close finish but in 91 the gap was bigger - 0'56.204 - GT3mich and 0'57.786 - me!

Just a thought - maybe a selfish one since I would probably get a gold medal in 91 for driving the Impreza with a good time!

But if the ultimate point of this new system is to split all submitted times in to a Gold / Silver/ Bronze category then I will always have to pick the faster car in the future since there would be no point driving the slower one.

This was not -yet- about satisfaction, I meant that I think I would have submitted that 1.10.004 before. Now I might try to get it under the 1.10

In terms of satisfaction:

Let's use your example , sjaak, and say that 1.10.004 get's you a bronze "podium"...
The 1.09.999 would let you have a low silver rank...

To me the time itself is the satisfaction, if it were to be a slow div2, silver, or bronze / div3 podium time. (I am way out of div1/gold, so no comparison for that)

Looks like a good system to me. It never hurts to improve something, and improving something as good as the WRS can only make it that much greater 👍.

I like it but can you state which people are in which division.

There are no divisions in this system. Gold/Silver/Bronze placement is based on the lap time from the race.

Oh o.k got confused for a minute

Thanks everyone.

To address a few points...
First would be the issues sjaak68 brought up.
I feel K2racer did a good job in responding to those issues.
I also feel that there is another point to be made in that; a d1 last place of 1'09.999 is still faster than a d2 podium of 1'10.000.

On that same note though, I would imagine a great deal of satisfaction comes to the racer who edges out a gold over his once rivals who could only manage silver.

Next on the list of issues to address... Racybacy's comments.
Very good point my friend.
In fact, it is one of the elements of this system I had not thought through.

It could take some time to find a reasonable answer to your question, however, I will still give it a try.

When 2 cars are in use I would like to leave the results as 1 list unless there is a major difference in car selection (ie road car vs race car).

The reason I feel like that is the best way to go is because of the fact that we are already using 1 list to show results...

-------Using the recent fto vs impreza race as an example----------
The results came out with clear markers for who drove which car, this wouldn't change in the new system.
The only change would be in the place an individual driver would be listed on the results page.

With the current system we are listing the times for each division seperately.
In week 91 d1 drivers of the impreza were already listed as being slower than d1 fto drivers.
However, d1 impreza drivers were also listed higher on the page than all of the d2 fto drivers who managed to beat them.

So under the current system just being labeled as d1 will instantly make it appear as if you are a better driver than any of the d2 or d3 drivers.

Even with all of that said...
I will not say that 2 list of results on 1 page is out of the question, it can be the best answer to problems like this sometimes.

For now I think that's about it.
Flat-out's stats wouldn't be changed by this at all (in fact he already uses the top times regardless of division to establish points).

Any way,
Like I said earlier, keep the feed back coming.

I really appreciate all the support and just the same I appreciate the criticisms.

Thanks again,
And for all you who are stopping by and not posting... Please post, I would really like to hear your thoughts since I want to hear from as many racers as possible.

Later.

I like it. It simplifies the results for Kent,makes the results table easier to read, it's in the spirit of the license tests of the GT series, provides goals each week to accomplish, and provides a trackable reward system. Drivers now are able to move "up and down" based on their performance each week. Neat idea, Kent:tup: At least when we fail to beat Ron every week we can have something to be happy about

The only problem is my neck will be tired from lugging around all these virtual medals

I prefer D1/D2/D3.

Well at least someone is thinking about the WRS system as well, I've been tinkering but it's still a W.I.P...

Personally, I think that the Division system is a slightly better system than the new one mooted. The reason I tend to say this that it gives the lower Division racers something to shoot for as they themselve would probably be first to say they can't do the pace of guys like Tannis, Thurzo, Mr P... heck not many can...

Meanwhile a DivIII racer can aim for their respective podium, get consistent on placing and then hopefully a promotion if consistently quick enough.

I agree that sometimes depending on the combination of either Track/Car or both, you can see some discrepancies of the system, but thats how it works the world over, a Premier League side can get beat by a lower Division team in the F.A.Cup on a given day.

Your 'Arcade' weeks are probably a better indication of peoples levels as in these weeks everyone is driving the same car, thus their pace in respective to each other is clearer.

Personally, I think the WRS need some slight tweaking in the Division system in that we see the top guys pretty much clear each week, some DivI & DivII guys intermingle and this repeats down (to the guys/girls improving each week)...

Maybe more Divisions???

Premier... these guys are pretty much known, each week are pretty much clear of rest...
DivI... rest of old DivI and the top DivII racers that intermingle DivI consistently
DivII & DivIII for the moment seem ok, but maybe split them II thru IV...

(Maybe a month of 'Arcade' races with differing machinery (ie fast, medium, slow) at different 'race' (Apricot, Grand Valley, Midfield etc) tracks??? To be able to determine peoples true pace...)

In this system I see myself as DivI, as I'm not quite as quick as the Prem's on a consistent basis (yet), but normally compete with the other DivI's and the very quickest DivII's of the week... I prefer 'Arcade' weeks over those where set-up needs work...

I'll keep thinking of another system though, such as
1)accumulated time system,
2) a system comparable to flat-out's,
3) a 'mean-based' points system (mean=100pts, quickest=200 slowest=1, and pts inbetween dependant on how many racers for the week)

plus a couple of others... like I said W.I.P...

Waugh. That's a tough one, Kent.

This suggestion has been up before. The difference is that you've done a great work getting your point though. 👍

Here's some of mine comments:

The Division system:

-Been working fine in 92 weeks.
-I have been proud of my division placement and never felt them as a "caste system". More like a realistic view of my racing skills.
-I have always liked the "everyone wins mentality". Those division podiums has given me something to race for, even when I was slower than my current slowness. 👍 Actually the division system was the reason I joined the WRS a year ago.
-In his system I've moved from mid div. 3 to mid div. 2 in one year.


The Gold-Silver-Bronze system:

-Would end the a long time problem with a "thin" div. 3.
-I would lose my "WRS Div. 2" signature. "Silver racer" ain't cool. 👎
-Would have given me a faster promotion to race side by side with the racers I've compared times with.
-We don't necessarily need to lose the "everyone wins mentality" in this system. A "podium" silver would be better than a fifth silver. And the chance for a gold would of course be totally superior.
-This system would be easier to work with for the race administrator and all the stats and leader-board volunteers.👍
-In this system I would have moved from last bronze to mid silver in one year.



Conclusion:

Some pro and cons for both systems. Overall I think it's rather equal. And the last 4 weeks results transformed to the new form doesn't seem to change much either.
Caught in the dilemma between "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and "The one who doesn't venture, doesn't win"(danish saying), I'll say, let's take the chance and go for it. 👍

The div. system is a lot of work for kent 👍 ,so if he wants to change it,no problem for me.
But I have some thoughts to share with you all.

-Week89.Suppose Niels and Sjaak ran a 1'18.999.Will there be nine golds and four silver?

-Week 88, 1'34.250 gets the same reward as a 1'35.912
In theory a gab of 1.999 can happen.All the racers get the same price,silver.

-Kent has to decide the amounts between the colours.It changes from week to week. I think sometimes racers won't agree.That can cause problems.

-A div. win is a win.With silver you always lose.

-In future we are racing against times instead of people.( 1'10.000,if I try more and get a 1'09.999, and if the chances of a 1'08.999 is zero,I can stop racing.Why invest in time anymore?I reached my goal.

-The "caste"system will always remain.(Some will always get gold and some will be never able to reach that)

My felling on this is that if Kent decides who gets Gold, Silver and Bronze each week, there are going to be questions like "Why did you make the Gold cut there? " or "My Sliver time should have been a Gold time" At least with the Divisions, everyone knows where everyone is sloted. There are times when I submit a run that I only had 30 minutes to run it but it will still be in Div1. I wanted to support the WRS so I submitted. With the new system, I won't be doing that anymore. Like Niels said, "If it aint broke".
Maybe after GT4 is released, you could try something new.

I've decided what shall be done.

We will stay with the current system.

For every person who would like to run in the new system there is another who would rather run in the old.

Not sure I really want to say anything more than that.
Thanks for all the replies and feedback.