B-Spec "Scientific" Study

Earlier today, about an hour ago, I wanted to test out how B-Spec works with lap times. In this test, I wanted to answer the following questions:

*Does the number matter for B-Spec times? That is, will a car racing on 5 get better times than 3 when left in its position for one whole lap?

*Will lap times differ if I use the same number long enough?

*Does traction control (TCS) and active stability management (ASM--Skid Control) affect lap times?

I decided to first answer the latter. I used a stock Jay Leno Tank Car with new oil for each run. For a course, I "drove" on the Nurburgring to see if the car would make the same mistakes over and over again.

20/20/10 (ASM-U/ASM-O/TCS) "3"
Time: 9'00'244

Oddly this was a pretty boring lap time. Usually there's something other than "00" on the time, but it was surprising to see that the Tank Car did a 9 minute-even lap. Since ASM and TCS were on, I expected that the time will change if I left one of them off.

20/20/0 "3"
Time: 9'00'244

Again, this was quite odd, but it does answer one of my questions. Either the B-spec driver knew exactly when to let off the gas, simulating traction control, or the B-spec driver automatically shuts off all systems.

0/0/0 "3"
Time: 9'00'244

Well, this proves that the traction systems are shut off no matter what setting you put them on. Three consecutive laps, three different settings, and the Tank Car did the exact same lap time each and every time. It also proves, when I viewed the race in real-time as opposed to X3, that the driver does the same mistakes over and over again. For example, the car will turn in too much on the last small turn before the finish line and hit the wall separating the racetrack from the pit stop lane. Also, the car will slide out onto the grass right before the finish line, too.

0/0/0 "1"
Time: 9'18'857

After much use of number three, I tried to use B-spec with the number one setting, meaning that B-Spec Bob, Betty, Burt, (or whatever name you call this dude ) would potentially slow down and take his/her time while racing. Despite being careful, it also took a toll with lap times, slowing B-Spec Beavis, Butthead, Ben, Beatrice by almost 19 seconds. This proves that you could possibly make a few screw-ups in B-spec with a higher number and still get better lap times.

0/0/0 "5"
Time: 9'20'317

Though a number that's higher may post better lap times, a much higher number, like 5 as opposed to 1, will slow down the driver dramatically. As you see, number 5 made the lap time almost three seconds worse than that from 1, and nearly 21 seconds worse than in 3. This time might just prove that 3 is the better number for those who want to do a full lap without changing settings.

0/0/0 "3" with Overlap
Time: 9'00'244

Back at square 1, I tried to see if it was true that the "Overlap" feature actually quickens lap times in order to see if the AI driver can search for a place to pass. This test was done in Photo Mode, mind you, so I have further testing to do with the Overlap theory. But if my hypothesis is correct, lap times do not improve with Overlap left on, but might possibly in an actual race. However, it would not make much of a difference if you were in first place and you have no chance on gaining up on the 6th place competitor.

Overall--Testing concludes that:

*Traction control and active stability management does not improve or worsen lap times in B-spec.

*"Overlap" does not improve or worsen lap times in B-spec mode unless probably you're behind another driver and need to take pole position. Again, further testing is needed.

*The number is everything--Just because you use #1 does not mean that you'll get a better time with 5. In most cases, #3 is the best number to use on a race where you'd easily win but would not want to change the settings of your B-spec driver. I have yet to test #2 and #4, so stay tuned. However, if my feelings are correct, you might, just might, improve lap times with #4 but, depending on different variables like weather, car, B-spec skill and course, it may make lap times worse.

have you read up on B-spec mode? 5 is push hard and 3 is normal, so it will come off on 5, especially on the faster corners where understeer is a problem. and its overtake, it just tells the B-spec to overtake any cars in the way when it gets the chance. but the traction control i didnt know of

I haven't done any scientific testing, but my B-Bob seems to do his best driving when left alone on "4" + overtake. He is currently a 9400point 100/99/99 driver. Left on "5" he tends to run off course in the tighter corners.
You'll probably do best times if you direct him, changing to "5" on the straights "3" or "4" before tight corners.
Once you're in pole position "overtake" has no meaning, but if it's an enduro, you'll probably catch up, and then you'll need "overtake" again for faster passing.

Great job! However, I have one question about this study. Did you reset the game after each run so B-Spec Bob wouldn't learn everything?

Duck7892

Great job! However, I have one question about this study. Did you reset the game after each run so B-Spec Bob wouldn't learn everything?

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Never thought about doing that. Then again, B-spec "dude" hasn't learned anything for the past month. However, there were no differences between times using the same number over and over again, so there was no bias or inequality in the tests.

I chose the Jay Leno Tank Car because you can actively hear the control systems like ABS, TCS and ASM with a lot of chirping noises and stuttering when trying to get the most traction. This would allow me to hear if ASM was working in the corners. Only ABS worked.

I knew what 1-5 meant during races, but I wanted to get rid of the myth that 5 is quicker than 1 etc.

Epinionator89

I knew what 1-5 meant during races, but I wanted to get rid of the myth that 5 is quicker than 1 etc.

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fair enough, just making sure you knew

Epinionator89

...I wanted to get rid of the myth that 5 is quicker than 1 etc.

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Myth? Please elaborate, because I've done a lot of B-Speccing just to collect and test cars, and I sure don't see any mythology in "Push" being a ton faster than "Slow down".

B-Spec a DTM car around Opera Paris first on 5, then on 1, and tell us what lap times you get on the two settings. See how far up the finishing order your driver gets when B-Speccing that DTM event on "1". Then try him again on "5".

Myth? I don't understand what you're referring to at all.

If you take Bob to different tracks and with different cars, you'll find that he gets his best lap times at one of those numbers 1-5. Sometimes he's best at 1. Sometimes he's best at 5. Sometimes he's best somewhere inbetween.

Generally, you're just trying to find the point at which Bob starts having problems with leaving the track. Generally, he's faster and faster up until that point. And remember that a number that works for him while his tires are green may have him sliding off the track every couple of feet when his tires are worn. He can get into a state where he's so screwed up on the last lap before pitting that he falls way behind even though he was winning.

- Skant

i heard that running special cars around tracks increases bobs skilll.....specail ie...nike.....motor carriage.....add that to study....does he in fact gain more skill if you run those cars on tracks?

Skant

If you take Bob to different tracks and with different cars, you'll find that he gets his best lap times at one of those numbers 1-5. Sometimes he's best at 1. Sometimes he's best at 5. Sometimes he's best somewhere inbetween.

Generally, you're just trying to find the point at which Bob starts having problems with leaving the track. Generally, he's faster and faster up until that point. And remember that a number that works for him while his tires are green may have him sliding off the track every couple of feet when his tires are worn. He can get into a state where he's so screwed up on the last lap before pitting that he falls way behind even though he was winning.

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Exactly, but is that the "myth" he's talking about? I didn't get that impression.

hispeed

I haven't done any scientific testing, but my B-Bob seems to do his best driving when left alone on "4" + overtake. He is currently a 9400point 100/99/99 driver. Left on "5" he tends to run off course in the tighter corners.
You'll probably do best times if you direct him, changing to "5" on the straights "3" or "4" before tight corners.
Once you're in pole position "overtake" has no meaning, but if it's an enduro, you'll probably catch up, and then you'll need "overtake" again for faster passing.

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I agree.

👍 Interesting!

Zardoz

Exactly, but is that the "myth" he's talking about? I didn't get that impression.

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I used the term loosely. I meant that some people are probably confused about the numbers, so I wanted to prove that 5 does not always mean you'll get the fastest lap times.

Epinionator89

I used the term loosely. I meant that some people are probably confused about the numbers, so I wanted to prove that 5 does not always mean you'll get the fastest lap times.

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But the way you presented it, you made it sound like 1 is faster than 5 all the time. You also made no mention as to why your lap time with 5 was slower than with 1. To a rather inexperienced b-spec user, this would be quite confusing.

You failed to mention the most important variable in b-speccing, driver skill. A good b-spec driver can do laps faster than one that has never been used. When I started using b-spec, every time I put it on 4 or 5, the driver would try to take every corner about 15 mph too fast, winding up in the runoff or pinned against a wall. When I use my b-spec driver now, I can keep him on 4, and depending on the track, sometimes 5.

As for your "overtake" theory:

Your b-spec driver will not pass another driver with overtake turned off. Overtake does not in itself make your lap times faster, but if you come up behind someone you should easily pass, you won't pass them with it turned off.

The solution: Leave overtake on. Unless you think passing isn't conducive to winning. Then by all means, turn it off.


The lesson here is to not put the word "scientific" in your post topic unless you actually put some significant research into it. A good example of it would be
"A pseudo-scientific test: Comparing the LeMans cars on Sarth II".

I notice that when starting the Super Speedway race the computer spins the tires just before you take over. Also it does it just after you get off the air jacks.

B-Bob will pass other cars with "overtake" off, it just takes him longer to do so.

hispeed

B-Bob will pass other cars with "overtake" off, it just takes him longer to do so.

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can be over a lap, with overtake off he stays on the line and doesnt attempt to overtake unless he's going considerably faster than the other car. most of the time B-spec driver just rams him

hispeed

B-Bob will pass other cars with "overtake" off, it just takes him longer to do so.

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I guess I should have been clearer. B-spec will not go out of his way to pass with overtake off. If the car in front deviates from b-spec's desired racing line and b-spec is traveling faster, then he will overtake. Otherwise, no. He will just ram his opponent (which will sometimes cause them to travel outside the racing line, with b-spec then passing).

Either way, overtake does not result in faster lap times unless there is a car slowing b-spec down.

I think your testing of TCS and ASM is flawed somehow. Try a Le Mans car and see what time he does.

In my B-Spec use I think ASM and TCS do make a difference - at least to tyre wear.

Generally I find that B-Spec Bob likes low ASM numbers - for Bob I use 2-5. For TCS I use 7-10 as my main aim is to have as much time between pitstops so I come back every 12 minutes instead of every 7 or 8 monitor his stops and put it back on 3x.

I may do some testing tonight as I am trying to find a car that can do 6 laps on the Nurb 24 hour with a lap time around 7.15 or better.

The tyres on the Pescarolos will last but the fuel will not. I may try the Suzuki.

hmm... didnt think asm/tsc setting effected b-spec.

thanks fort e reoprt

ving

hmm... didnt think asm/tsc setting effected b-spec.

thanks fort e reoprt

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But the Fiat doesn't go fast enough for them to kick in anyway.

I may be wrong. If I get a mission out of the way quickly tonight I may have enough time to do some testing before a 24 hour run at the nurb.

If damage modelling was in the game I would have plenty photos showing the end result of driving a very big car around Seattle - around being the operative word. I sincerely hope that I am braking for too long in the Superbird because if not then I am stumped.

Back on topic I thought Zardoz used TCS in his B-Spec testing of the Le Mans Cars. He seemed to think it made a difference.

Zardoz

Exactly, but is that the "myth" he's talking about? I didn't get that impression.

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No....the myth i heard was that if you take your special cars....nike or motor carriage (Ford) around tracks.....bob's skill increases.....anyone know about this?

You're right that a car will have an optimal setting in b-spec if you're just going to leave it and exceeding that will slow lap times down. The fastest lap times in b-spec are only achievable through adjustment for different corners. Each corner (or series of corners) itself has an optimal value that yields the fastest line. You'll have to experiment at different tracks to find these values and they will change based on tire wear and set-up. It's worth noting that changing the value after the braking point for a corner will change the line for the next corner and not the current one. The settings do not affect how they accelerate on straights.

I'll have to look into ASM and TCS settings for LMP cars and such. I'd found early on that there wasn't a difference, but that may have been due to the slower cars I was using.

Azhur

...The fastest lap times in b-spec are only achievable through adjustment for different corners...

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Very true. You can nurse Bob around to better lap times by varying the speed setting over the course of a lap. Some sections he can take at "5", others only "3", etc.

Kinda defeats the purpose of B-Spec, of course...

Zardoz

Very true. You can nurse Bob around to better lap times by varying the speed setting over the course of a lap. Some sections he can take at "5", others only "3", etc.

Kinda defeats the purpose of B-Spec, of course...

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Funny, I thought that WAS the purpose of B-Spec, managing and directing a driver. Not 'set it and forget it' and come back to some prize money and a new car. That's not really a game, is it? In the interest of full disclosure, though, yes, I have done just that with the 24hr races.💡

full_wick

...'set it and forget it' and come back to some prize money and a new car...

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Guilty as charged. For me, the real (or only) value of B-spec is using it in the enduros to get the prize cars.

And yes, to me the Formula GT series is a set of 15 endurance races. Some day I'll A-Spec it, but it will be a while before that happens...



.

hispeed

B-Bob will pass other cars with "overtake" off, it just takes him longer to do so.

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Yeah, that's right, because of B-spec have to try to stay on LINE all the time... He'll STILL pass... when other car in front slide off track or line...💡

i let Bob race a lot, and i think he is better driving a Japanese race cars than any other country's car, maybe im wrong. and also, does Bob really get better at certain if he spent a lot of time on it???

yes that's why his skill increases...

what's your personall fastest and best way to increase bob's skill?

I'm quite sure that if you take different cars, i.e. compact/small car, special car, tuned car and race car, perhaps FF/FR/RR/4WD/MR, on Nurburgring, that would be the quickest start to gain big B-spec points and skill.

My b-spec driver ratings are 94/84/84 but he STILL screws up the hairpin on Infineon. If I run the Minolta on anything other than level 3 during the race, he's going WAY off line and "stalling" on the tight turns. Level 3 with a fully tuned Minolta won't keep the lead in the Infineon endurance race. Any ideas?

Is it proven that if I use different levels of cars [economy, sports, super] on a single track will improve b-spec skills?