DFP, and GT4 Specific Drifting Tips

This is a GT4 and Driving Force Pro specific drift tip thread. If you aren't familiar with drifting or want a broader view of the sport, go here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=57146 Also, go there for car set up and tuning advice. If you need tips on how to control a car in GT4, especially using a Driving Force Pro steering wheel, you're in the right place. This was made for noobies but it couldn't hurt someone who knows what they're doing already.

In this game the initiation technique that is most commonly used is fient. There are other techniques that could be used like e-brake, braking, let-off, powerover, etc., but they generally rarely used or used in conjuction with a feint drift. In other words, this is definately a feint game. Feint meaning turning left then right, or vise versa, to quickly to snap the car sideways into the corner. To do this while braking you have to turn right before applying brake, hit the brakes as you jerk to the left, then right again, or vise versa. (you can just go left, then brake as you slide right if you want to)

This isn't a wheelspin game. If you get massive wheelspin you're either going to end up getting alot of angle and stalling out (drift lost) or for some strange reason in this game you can get understeer because of it. (which one actually happens depends on your steering input)

It's all about car balance. If you get too much angle you'll stall out. If you don't have enough angle you'll get understeer. (either way, drift lost) And if you don't have angle coming into a corner, you likely won't have any through or exiting the corner. And if your speed is wrong (especially on entry), you're screwed. You have to use very precise throttle control and steer very smoothly to avoid overcorrection, or losing your drift. The thing I find to work is keeping constant preasure on the wheel in the direction of the turn. In other words, right hand turn, keep the preasure on the right side of the balance, or dead spot. Keeping preasure on the right of the balance would mean that the wheel is pulling you to the left and you are pulling it to the right. If you try to balance the wheel (or keep it in the dead spot), the car then becomes unbalanced and you'll either lose your drift or get the infamous "snap overcorrection". The best way to keep this balance is to stay smooth. Don't jerk the wheel, or jump on and off the throttle and brakes, just think ahead and predict what the car is about to do. Then respond to the situation as slowly and smoothly as possible.

Now a bit on ending a drift properly. The best way to avoid overcorrection on corner exit is to correct with your throttle, or some other way of reducing wheelspin to a point of non-existence. Up-shifting, or scrubbing the brakes, for example. If you correct by turning the wheel until it straigtens the car out, about 90 percent of the time you will get snap overcorrection and you just messed up. This is a great technique for link drifting, but horrible for ending a drift. Again smoother is better.

All that's left that I can say is practice, practice, practice. And if that doesn't work, practice some more.

The best way to improve is to take one car on one track and don't change either until your satisfied that you've made improvement or have done good. Then, change something, the car, the track, both if you want, and repeat. Also make it hard for yourself. The harder it is the more you learn. You learn best by making mistakes.

Something that can help you spot mistakes is by going to the Race options menu and turning the steering Display On.

Also if 15 lbs of force feedback are jerking the wheel from your hands you can turn down the force feedback strength by going into the Steering Settings in the options menu and changing Force Feedback Strength 1P form Strong to Mild.

Note: all things stated above are my opinion, not actual fact. You may find a different way of doing it, but this is a way that works for alot of people.

Also if anyone wants to add to this, feel free to do so.

I don't totally agree about the wheelspin bit.

The thing that kills drifts from wheelspin is bouncing off the rev limiter.

The Cobra for example, will drift beautifully as long as you keep feathering the throttle, trying to stay between 3k and 5.5k rpm works nicely....

Once it gets up and hits the rev limiter though, it proceeds to snap around, as do the BMW's.


I agree with the keeping it just a little off center, into the drift, and with turns like Tsukuba, I find myself kind of dialing it over bit by bit as I go in, then a mad scramble to get the wheel whipped back around to avoid snap back.

I noticed the Power Steering option is nice...it lets you have the full force feedback, but when you want to whip the wheel back around, it cuts it loose for the high speed rotation...

Very handy, and you don't get that terrible sounding (but harmless) gear grinding as much.

Onikaze

I don't totally agree about the wheelspin bit.

The thing that kills drifts from wheelspin is bouncing off the rev limiter.

The Cobra for example, will drift beautifully as long as you keep feathering the throttle, trying to stay between 3k and 5.5k rpm works nicely....

Once it gets up and hits the rev limiter though, it proceeds to snap around, as do the BMW's.

Click to expand...

This is long, but it needs to be because it explains the complex physics involved with wheelspin, and drifting.

O.K. I finally came up with a reply to this. WHEELSPIN IS THE ENEMY OF LONG DRIFTS Wheelspin is your best friend and your worst enemy. You HAVE TO have wheelspin in order to hold a drift, but you can't get too much or you will loose your speed and consequently you will loose your drift. The thing is that you want to have as little wheelspin possible to keep the car sideways, if you get any more wheelspin than that you will loose forward drive/speed and likely you will be unable to hold the drift for the whole duration of the turn. This is the most important thing to learn to be a good/pro level drifter. The best technique is to have 5-10mph of wheelspin, or around 1,000rpm of wheelspin. In other words, if you're going 60mph, your rear wheels would be going 65-70mph. Or in terms of rpm, if you would normally be at 4,000 rpm w/o wheelspin, then your target rpm would be between 4,500-5,000rpm (depending on gear ratio) with wheelspin. However you never really know how much wheelspin you've got, you just have to feel it. Feeling this wheelspin is the hardest part of drifting and you will know if you got it wrong, and after a while it will become second nature, just like it does with your steering input. This is why it is easier to drift with lower powered cars, (150-250hp) because it is easier to control your wheelspin and keep it in the 5-10mph range, it is also easier to feel how much wheelspin you have. I believe it was Taka Aono at the Infenion Formula D event who said, "horsepower is a handicap"

Rarely, you will need to have up to 20mph of wheelspin if you are about to loose your drift and need to get sideways again, or want to increase your angle, or to initiate a drift via power over. (this is the only time more power is an advantage) But, this should be brought back down to around 10mph of wheelspin as soon as possible so that you don't loose your speed, causing you to loose your drift.

This is the DFP's ultimate advantage over the DS2. You can not get the same level of throttle control with the DS2 as you can with the DFP. This means that a skilled driver will be able to hold longer drifts than someone using a DS2, 90% of the time. Example, the 270* uphill carousel turn at Autumn Ring Normal. Using my DFP I can hold a drift the whole way 'round that turn and link into and out of it using any rear wheel drive car with 250+ horsepower. Using a DS2 I am lucky to get more than half way before I loose my speed and my drift. I rarely see anyone else get more than 3/4 of the way before it happens to them. So what is my secret with the DFP? EXTREME THROTTLE CONTROL. Any one can make it all the way round any turn on this game with proper throttle control and, of course, perfect steering input and entry speed.

I just took up GT4 drifting again after a frustration induced hiatus and I've been taking it easy, learning some extreme throttle control for starters (I'm using DS2 buttons, but believe me you can get some crazy control with the X button).

One problem is that with that ideal rear wheel slip rate you're mentioning, I seem to be missing one key ingredient: smoke Especially in lower angle drifts, where I try to go for as long as possible just hanging the rear out there, I see very little or no smoke in my replays (even though I was definitely going sideways). So I guess there's got to be a compromise somewhere to make your sliding look good... At least for me, I've been forcing myself to overdo the throttle or engine power just to get some smoke and squeal.

Now for the disagreeing with the OP part:
As for exiting, I never really had any problem with that personally... And I find that (for me) unwinding the countersteering smoothly is the most crucial point here, though getting off the throttle smoothly will definitely help your exit speeds a lot. What I'm struggling with is nailing the entry (speed, angle, line setup etc).
On another note, for long big radius drifts I find flooring it in overpowered (450+ HP) machines (controlling it with cs) to be easy, but obviously you'll go a lot of directions if you try that on tighter turns.

What I'm getting at is: IMO, the big advantage with having a wheel is steering control. Of course, smooth throttle control is important, but the main reason I'm losing speed when d-pad drifting is because my front wheels are scrubbing when they should be following the line. And IMO, with a DS2 you can get just as good fine throttle control, but nowhere near as good fine steering control as you can with a DFP.

Keeping the discussion alive for now..

Ske

I just took up GT4 drifting again after a frustration induced hiatus and I've been taking it easy, learning some extreme throttle control for starters (I'm using DS2 buttons, but believe me you can get some crazy control with the X button).

One problem is that with that ideal rear wheel slip rate you're mentioning, I seem to be missing one key ingredient: smoke Especially in lower angle drifts, where I try to go for as long as possible just hanging the rear out there, I see very little or no smoke in my replays (even though I was definitely going sideways). So I guess there's got to be a compromise somewhere to make your sliding look good... At least for me, I've been forcing myself to overdo the throttle or engine power just to get some smoke and squeal.

Click to expand...

Smooth steering is definately important. I feel it's just as important as smooth throttle control. But the DS2 gets away with it somehow. But we have different styles and that's cool. Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.

As for the smoke. I'm afraid that that is a give and take. For short turns you want to get high wheelspin to get high angle since you can make it the whole way no matter how much wheelspin or angle you have. But for long turns, you're either going to get alot of smoky wheelspin and not make it to the exit of the turn, or you can sacrafice the smoke to be able to hold the drift all the way 'round. Your choice.

And if you can controll the throttle that well with the DS2 then you are doing something that very few people can do. Definate kudo's for that.

My post came off a bit wrong but it seems you got my point

But for anyone else (including me, doh)... What I was trying to say is that I agree that throttle control is extremely important (and it's all us d-padders have got since holding the wheels at a certain angle is VERY hard for us), but the point where I feel a DFP would give the most advantage over a pad is the steering dept. The response on the X button just feels a lot smoother than the pad (or maybe it's just cause I'm right handed, who knows). And again, I'm more worried about the looks of it (constant steering angle looks way better on replay than tapping/sawing motions, no doubt).

Since I've gotten to where I am with relatively little practice, I imagine that d-pad drifting CAN be just as "good", just not as good looking as DFP drifting. And since drifting is an exhibition/style sport after all, that goes a long way.

Excellent LSD guide, btw.. tuning that has been a headache for me ever since GT2, but that really cleared it up for me, props!

Ske

Since I've gotten to where I am with relatively little practice, I imagine that d-pad drifting CAN be just as "good", just not as good looking as DFP drifting. And since drifting is an exhibition/style sport after all, that goes a long way.

Excellent LSD guide, btw.. tuning that has been a headache for me ever since GT2, but that really cleared it up for me, props!

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I, too , need to fully understand drifting thru practice & have yet to clear a DFP w/ the Authorities , but i read in another post that the d-pad is slightly slower lock-to-lock than the joystick though ide have to agree both tend to overcompensate more than a wheel & become 'scrubby' . The x-button's fine !

Does anybody have tips for countersteering with the DFP, like how much is needed.

I have great throttle / brake control and very smooth and precise steering when im Gripping, but for drifting i have trouble once i need to go more than 140 degrees of countersteer. Any drift that doesnt need more than 140 degress of CS is easy. I guess its just foreign territory as in Gripping you dont go into lots of CS.

How did you guys get the 'feel' of the car to know how much Countersteer is needed?
I get to much, or not enough, or dont turn fast enough or sometimes i turn to fast. I can drift decently with DS2 but i would really like to be able to do it with the DFP.

Small_Fryz

Does anybody have tips for countersteering with the DFP, like how much is needed.

I have great throttle / brake control and very smooth and precise steering when im Gripping, but for drifting i have trouble once i need to go more than 140 degrees of countersteer. Any drift that doesnt need more than 140 degress of CS is easy. I guess its just foreign territory as in Gripping you dont go into lots of CS.

How did you guys get the 'feel' of the car to know how much Countersteer is needed?
I get to much, or not enough, or dont turn fast enough or sometimes i turn to fast. I can drift decently with DS2 but i would really like to be able to do it with the DFP.

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I find that when you get to high angle you need less countersteer. Your essentially letting the rear wheels and the leverage they produce straighten you out.

Don't think in countersteer so much as you think of momentum and your line you are trying to take in relation to it. Try to keep your eye's on the line and make your steering follow your eye's. If the line is going to the left then you will be looking to the left to see the line, and if you keep your steering proportional to your eye movement, then you will be correcting appropriately if your at teh right speed. If your back end is stepping out beyond your ideal balance to the left then your eyes will move left and your steering will follow and you will still be in balance. The only difference between grip and drift driving style should be the fact that you are initiating a drift at coner entry instead of trying to keep the car in the line at the limit and balancing it at an angle instead of balance at neutral.

.........I'll bet that's confusing.........so.......just look where your going and steer accordingly.

As for the "feel" you cannot accurately describe a feeling in words. But you know how the ff will pull you to a point that has no resistence in the steering?? That resistance will neutralize when the front wheels are carrying 0% of the turning force of the car. If you balance the car out like this you will overcorrect everytime in this game. So you need to "feel" where the appropriate amount of resistence is to keep the car sideways and on line. If you are not at enough angle you will want to be on the positive side of the balance (turning into the turn), if you are at too much angle you will need to go to neutral or maybe even negative. Sometimes you will need to resist the steering resistance more than others. Meaning you will need to turn with the front wheels in some turns more than others. Most of this "feel" is through the eye's though in the method described avbove. When you use both techniques to the fullest you will be in total control of the vehicle.

KEY IDEA: Think of no resistance as not turning the car.
Think of resistance pulling to the left as turning the car to the right.
Think of resistance pulling to the right as turning the car to the left.
That is what is meant by "feel" If you feel the way the car is going and use your eye/steering ratio properly then you will be in control and the car will do what you want it to do.

Sorry.............Nobody said it was easy. But it works.

heres the best piece of advice i can give. IMAGINE WHAT YOUR FRONT TIRES LOOK LIKE WHILE COUNTER STEERING. I dont mean to scream but after i imagined what my front tires look like during counter steer i could see how i would snap back or how i could do it with a nice a flow.

The main thing everyone should do first is read some advice like in this thread but start to look for cures within yourself for your drifting problems. Everyone will have his or her own way of drifting.

hmm i drift using the analog on the DS2 and my drifting seems to be really good on replays (depending on the car)
like not choppy n stuff since i use the right analog for gas/break and left analog for steering
if you can manage the to nail certen points in the gas/break/steering you can drift smoothly like 25%,50%,75% gas/break/steering using ds2 you can get more control to smooth the drift and make nice long turns hoding a drift

infact the only cars i cant drift smooth using the DS2 is light race cars with pro paint n stuff but factory cars im fine dirfting smoothly with

hence the reason im here

no matter what ive tryed i still cant drift nicly with race versions of my fav factory cars using DS2
(example would be a regular S15 silvia vs HKS race version S15) race versions seem to be REALLY responsive to very lil counter steer and throw me in a spin right into the wall >< like magor over correcting that i cant figger out how to fix

basicly what im looking for is info on how to make these race cars less responsive to counter steer so thay handle more like the factory cars without effecting there turn in to much

anyone know how to do this?

You know I dont really throttle control good at all. Thats not good but I'm saying that it's possible to manage a big part with steering. And for smoke you might need a rigidity upgrade if your using a second hand car.

If I drift and look at the RPM going high I just release throttle half a sec and go on again keeping at around 6RPM usually.