The speed difference between the PAL and NTSC versions.

RogsR34UK · Sep 2, 2005

I took the Toyota Caldina GT-Four (4WD to make sure that wheelspin played no part) and ran the 1000 metre standing start.

Results for four versions of GT4:

Korea - 124mph/27.275 seconds
Japan - 200kmh/27.275 seconds
USA - 124mph/27.275 seconds
PAL - 124mph/27.253 seconds

The PAL version is actually faster, though not by a huge amount. I ran it twice and the times were identical. It is only around a .08% difference.

sumbodycool · Sep 2, 2005

Interesting... I wanted to test this out myself, but the only version I own is the NTSC/US
good stuff rogs

Moloch_horridus · Sep 2, 2005

At that speed the difference would be 1.2195 metres or 4.0011 feet! :eek:

They have to make it faster for us PAL users - we would get too bored crawling around at the lesser speeds of other versions

niky · Sep 2, 2005

Hmmm... only have access to two NTSC versions... what markets get the PAL? I think I'll start a new save and join the WRS... :lol:

RogsR34UK · Sep 2, 2005

PAL is basically Europe, Australia and, I think, New Zealand.

I will repeat the test with a faster car to confirm that the difference is constant.

ving · Sep 2, 2005

yup, us ausies are all ADD. we need the extra speed to keep our attention

ferrari_chris · Sep 2, 2005

PAL here in New Zealand.

We like it faster down here - :sly:

gibus · Sep 2, 2005

Very interesting.. but how can you be sure that your tests were done the same way all the time. Did you have them reving at the same RPM's when begining? Automatic transmition?

eddi

RogsR34UK · Sep 2, 2005

I used Auto Transmission (hence all the NTSC versions getting the same time). I held the X button right in when I pressed X to start and didn't touch the steering at all for the duration of the run.

kennythebomb · Sep 2, 2005

Keep doing this with more cars, all different drivetrains and such, and get back to us

RogsR34UK · Sep 2, 2005

I intend to try a few more cars of varying power so that is likely to lead to different drivetrains.

Alfaholic · Sep 2, 2005

gibus
Very interesting.. but how can you be sure that your tests were done the same way all the time. Did you have them reving at the same RPM's when begining? Automatic transmition?

eddi

I'd be bloody impressed that he managed three identical times in four attempts if he was not employing a digitally consistent technique :lol:

Are all the specs for the car identical on both platforms? i.e. mass, power, torque, gearing (does it change up at exactly the same speed)

Were they all the same colour or was one red? You know of course that red cars are faster :sly:

EDIT: oooh and is the time gap between entering the event and actually getting the green light the same? When the car is bouncing off the limiter, if the PAL version takes slightly longer or shorter to get from loading the track to starting the run, the engine may be at a slightly different place in its bouncing cycle when you set off. If, for instance, you only put the accelerator hard down when the counter is at 2, you will sometimes notice that the car will get a faster or slower launch than if you hit the button at counter 3. It seems to depend on where the revs are precisely, and whether they are climbing or dropping perhaps. The difference in launch is small, as is the difference in time you experienced. Gibus may be on to something!

elctrk! · Sep 2, 2005

wheelspin or not...
i think you're wrong and you just had a better launch w/pal

niky · Sep 2, 2005

Actually, not. If you've got a lower powered AWD car, a full-throttle launch with the AT on will give you consistent times. It's only with cars that have poor traction on launch that you'll get any variation on the launch.

slotcarrod · Sep 2, 2005

The reason PAL is faster is to help PAL users with their lack of driving skill.

Now time to run and hide! :scared:

Alfaholic · Sep 2, 2005

slotcarrod
The reason PAL is faster is to help PAL users with their lack of driving skill.

Now time to run and hide!

Wotcha talking 'bout? we PAL users are given more power because we can cope with it :sly:

Famine · Sep 2, 2005

elctrk!
wheelspin or not...
i think you're wrong and you just had a better launch w/pal

Yet managed identical launches on three other versions?

agent kri · Sep 2, 2005

Maybe a b-spec test on all the versions?

spykerdriver · Sep 2, 2005

agent kri
Maybe a b-spec test on all the versions?

That would be great except you would need the exact same B-spec level on each release.

Oh, and you can't run b-spec on the 1000m.

Diego440 · Sep 3, 2005

slotcarrod
The reason PAL is faster is to help PAL users with their lack of driving skill.

Now time to run and hide!

whatcha talkin' 'bout, willis? It's because the air in Europe, Australia and NZ is less polluted and therefore, allows for a smoother cruising.

Brock5000 · Sep 3, 2005

Famine
Yet managed identical launches on three other versions?

indeed, that makes it interesting

I'm with Kenny, more testing required 👍

RogsR34UK · Sep 4, 2005

It gets better. Each of these times was done with two runs. Looks like some cars are faster on the PAL version. I just did the comparitive tests on the Japanese version as that was the only other 100% save I had. Cars were identical colour (!!!!) bought before the run. TCS and ASM were as the game defaulted them. Auto Transmission:

Jaoanese Version
BMW M3 - 24.59seconds/220 km/h
F1 (250 miles) - 16.3seconds/335 km/h
F1 (New) - 16.3seconds/335 km/h
Toyota Vitz/Yaris Turbo - 30.346seconds/177 km/h
Chevrolet Corvette C5R - 19.047seconds/262 km/h
Ford GT '05 - 20.006seconds/274 km/h

PAL
BMW M3 - 24.645seconds/138 mph
F1 (750 miles) - 16.367seconds/206 mph
F1 (New) - 16.322seconds/208 mph
Toyota Vitz/Yaris Turbo - 30.354seconds/110 mph
Chevrolet Corvette C5R - 19.027seconds/175 mph
Ford GT '05 - 20.135seconds/170 mph

Mostly slower. Varying drivetrains and power ratings.

chinko · Sep 4, 2005

you do realise the F1 doesnt suffer from Engine wear, so its the same at 0 miles and 5436974845436482 miles? :lol:

ZAGGIN · Sep 4, 2005

famine
Yet managed identical launches on three other versions?

whilst the games might seem different visually, i doubt whether they are indeed three completely different versions of the game. as far as i know, japan, america, and probably taiwan all use NTSC. the mathmatics could quite easily be the same, just the language and content different.

many moons ago, when the megadrive (genesis) was at the height of its powers, there was a difference in frame rates between PAL and NTSC versions of games. generally, NTSC games ran much faster. we all know that GT4 is a hardware intensive game. could that speed be its hinderencs now? hence the aparent faster PAL time.

my theory is this. since NTSC can run at a faster frame rate, maybe it takes NTSC versions slightly longer to display all the frames it displays, compared to PAL versions which displays less frames. i believe that this difference maybe throwing out the clock. the clock can only display what the frames will let it.
also, could this time difference be something to do with the 50hz/60hz frequency that separates NTSC versions from PAL versions? the fact that all cars crossed the line at the same speed indicates that something is amiss.

Mt. Lynx · Sep 4, 2005

ZAGGIN
whilst the games might seem different visually, i doubt whether they are indeed three completely different versions of the game. as far as i know, japan, america, and probably taiwan all use NTSC. the mathmatics could quite easily be the same, just the language and content different.

many moons ago, when the megadrive (genesis) was at the height of its powers, there was a difference in frame rates between PAL and NTSC versions of games. generally, NTSC games ran much faster. we all know that GT4 is a hardware intensive game. could that speed be its hinderencs now? hence the aparent faster PAL time.

my theory is this. since NTSC can run at a faster frame rate, maybe it takes NTSC versions slightly longer to display all the frames it displays, compared to PAL versions which displays less frames. i believe that this difference maybe throwing out the clock. the clock can only display what the frames will let it.
also, could this time difference be something to do with the 50hz/60hz frequency that separates NTSC versions from PAL versions? the fact that all cars crossed the line at the same speed indicates that something is amiss.

Do you realize what this means?? Any times submitted as fastest times can in no way count as a fastest time! If you want it legit, then different sheets for NTSC and PAL has to be constructed! :nervous:

niky · Sep 4, 2005

Oh God... no... :ouch:

I was thinking about this after the first post, actually... but we won't know how bad this would be unless we did extensive A-Spec/B-Spec testing... that would take weeks! :nervous:

RogsR34UK · Sep 5, 2005

That thought had crossed my mind. A simpe 0-1000 on the car in question on an NTSC and the PAL version should be sufficient to show any discrepancy.

Ezz777 · Sep 5, 2005

RogsR34UK
That thought had crossed my mind. A simpe 0-1000 on the car in question on an NTSC and the PAL version should be sufficient to show any discrepancy.

well no, not really. slightly off topic, but i have seen instances where the physics models seem to differ between the two. Eg PAL cars driving into the wall more often on Sarthe II.

My Theory: - Becauase PAL refreshes at 60Hz while NTSC at 50Hz (opp. of what Zig Zaggin said), there are more calculations required to display the images in PAL. Rather than unsync the graphics and physics side, they simply slowed down the physics as well. Because PAL will make more calculations on physics it is therefore an substantially different physics model. Making comparisons not all that valid. While times can be roughly equalled out by saying that 50 or 60 calcs = 1 second depending on version - the difference in accuracy would have to be significant.

My personal feeling, and i know this has been discussed at length elsewhere, that the whole difference in M34 between PAL and NTSC is not as significant as all the NTSC users want to believe - given that they are using a simpler physics model.

Ikari_San · Sep 5, 2005

I believe they adjusted the timing by 17% to match the speed of the NTSC (60hz) version, so they should be the same.

RogsR34UK · Sep 5, 2005

AS for those F1 times, they admittedly surprised me which was why I re-ran them a few times just to confirm.

The speed difference between the PAL and NTSC versions.

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