Test of the Demo cars

kekke2000 · Oct 28, 2007

Requested to move to a new thread from "10/20/2007 Demo"

I've been doing a little test with all cars to see how they feel. I used Sixaxis, Manual Transmission, Simulation Mode, no ASM or TCS, S2 tires.

Nissan GT-R

To begin with, it's really fast. Just a few seconds after the start i'm bumper to bumper to the car in front (Lexus IS F). It understeers a bit but giving full throttle increases the grip slightly. Entering a corner too fast can be solved by slightly pull the e-brake, although that move will cost a second or two. Overall it's easy to drive for a car with that amount of power.

Subaru Impreza WRX STi

This car is an expert on hairpins and slow corners, turns quickly and keeps the balance controlled. Although when it comes to medium and fast corners it tends to understeer. Saving the understeer with the e-brake is not to think of in this car, it will spin out. It's fun to drive and play with but it isn't really a racer, after all it's made for dirt.

Lexus IS F

This big four door luxury beast needs a guru behind the wheel. It tends to oversteer at all speeds, hairpins and slow corners needs to be tackled with care. Fits very well as a drifter, except the automatic gearbox which takes the sportyness away and that when you pull the e-brake it sometimes stays in neutral for a few seconds. It's fast and beautiful and a real challenge to drive.

Mazda Atenza Sport

This car has exceptional cornering. Very good balance at all speeds. It is a little slow and requires some slip stream. But it compensates the slow straights in the corners.

Daihatsu OFC-1

This little fellow that almost fits in your pocket has very good handling. Even thought it's not very fast and don't have much power it's very fun to drive.

BMW 135i Coupe

This little beemer is very fast, but it has issues with the cornering. Every motion need to be very delicate to keep it on the road at high speeds. But driven with the right technique it can outrun the japanese sports cars.

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X

The Evo is very tweaky but it's very good with corners at all speeds. But watch out when you break before a corner as the tweaks will try to send it into a slalom motion.

Raitziger · Oct 28, 2007

Nice! I would add that if you engage hand-brake with lexus, it loses gears for awhile. That is bad if you are trying to drift.

kekke2000 · Oct 28, 2007

Raitziger
Nice! I would add that if you engage hand-brake with lexus, it loses gears for awhile. That is bad if you are trying ot drift.

yeah i've noticed that too, adding..

Digital-Nitrate · Oct 28, 2007

Digital-Nitrate
+REP for the great post!

Also, if you don't mind I'm going to quote ~~your~~ kikie's (just realized I confused your GTP ID with kikie) great post on each demo car's transmission/wheel support as it too will be a very useful reference for future GTP visitors:

kikie
Did some testing of my own

There has been some problems with some members who don't know how they can shift gears with each car with the G25 in GT5p demo. I tested this for each car.

Legend (key to symbols)

MT = manual transmission (race options)
AT = automatic transmission (race options)
Seq = sequential shifting with stick (gear box)
Hp = H-pattern shifting with stick (gear box)
Paddles = shifting with paddles behind the wheel
Stick = stick shifting (sequential, gear box)
Race option = The option you choose when you start to race
Action in game = How you shift gears in the game (while playing, = gear box)

GT-R

Race options Action in game
MT + seq ==> paddles + stick (seq)
MT + Hp. ==> stick (Hp), no paddles available
AT + seq ==> AT
AT + Hp. ==> AT

WRX

Race options Action in game
MT + seq ==> paddles + stick (seq)
MT + Hp. ==> stick (Hp), no paddles available
AT + seq ==> AT
AT + Hp. ==> AT

IS-F

Race options Action in game
MT + seq ==> paddles + stick (seq)
MT + Hp. ==> paddles, no stick available
AT + seq ==> AT
AT + Hp. ==> AT

MAZDA

Race options Action in game
MT + seq ==> paddles + stick (seq)
MT + Hp. ==> stick (Hp), no paddles available
AT + seq ==> AT
AT + Hp. ==> AT

OFC-1

Race options Action in game
MT + seq ==> paddles + stick (seq)
MT + Hp. ==> paddles, no stick available
AT + seq ==> AT
AT + Hp. ==> AT

BMW

Rarce options Action in game
MT + seq ==> paddles + stick (seq)
MT + Hp. ==> stick (Hp), no paddles available
AT + seq ==> AT
AT + Hp. ==> AT

EVO X

Race options Action in game
MT + seq ==> paddles + stick (seq)
MT + Hp. ==> stick (Hp), no paddles available
AT + seq ==> AT
AT + Hp. ==> AT

Joey D · Oct 28, 2007

After driving all of the cars in the demo I must say my favourite is the BMW 135i Coupe, it's both fast and handles quite well. I hope PD carries the hatchback version over to GT5 as well.

kikie · Oct 28, 2007

Very good thread. 👍

Stormchaser1 · Oct 28, 2007

I thin k the nissan skyline is my favourite one on there because of it handling and its speed i reckon its a beutiful car to drive on there.
I wish u could drive the f430 on there coz its a gorgeous car

The evo Lancer one is another good car but yeh a bit t

weaky on the corners

i cant wait for the whole game and test all of the cars

kekke2000 · Oct 29, 2007

Stormchaser1
I thin k the nissan skyline is my favourite one on there because of it handling and its speed i reckon its a beutiful car to drive on there.
I wish u could drive the f430 on there coz its a gorgeous car

The evo Lancer one is another good car but yeh a bit tweaky on the corners

i cant wait for the whole game and test all of the cars

The F430 is kinda like the big one for this game. I can only dream of a top tuned F430 in a GT game. :drool:

kikie · Oct 29, 2007

A lot of people don't know what understeer is. In most cases, understeer happens when you turn in to a corner at a speed that is too high. The front wheels lose grip and the car slides over the front wheels straight to the outside of the turn. You try to turn the car even more, which is wrong because the force on the tires exceed what they can handle in a turn, and they lose even more grip.

Let me first explain what a "skid", "slip" means. A slip of a car occurs when the speed of one or more wheels of the car is lower (e.g.: when you apply the brakes too hard, the wheels turn around slower or stop completely than the car travels onto the road) or faster (e.g. applying too much throttle when you start to accelerate, the wheels are spinning which means that the wheels are turning faster than the car travels onto the road) than the speed of the car itself in regard to the road.

So:

* Let go off the throttle to reduce the speed of the car, to shift the weight of the car onto the front wheels so they get more grip.

* Most people, and this is a natural manoeuvre, apply more steering (they try to steer even more, which is wrong) when they experience understeer. You have to do the opposite. "Open" you steering wheel and reduce steering (straighten out the wheels of the car as much as possible, ofcourse not entirely, because you still have to turn).

* Never apply more throttle to "cure" understeer. This will only cause more slip.

* Use the e-brake only as a last resort if the other "techniques" didn't work.

Every car, RWD, FWD, AWD, experience understeer. A FWD car has more tendency to understeer, because the front wheels must endure two different force ==> acceleration or braking and at the same time, turning.

An AWD has also the tendency to understeer but less than the FWD.

Not to brag or something but just to let you know that I know what I'm talking about :sly:

This is where I learn how to control a car.

click here

EDIT: I forgot to mention, if you let go of the throttle to shift the weight of the car to reduce understeer, you also could apply the brakes a very little bit. It reduces the speed even more and transfers the weight even more onto the front wheels.

Rocket Punch · Oct 29, 2007

kekke2000
Nissan GT-R

To begin with, it's really fast. Just a few seconds after the start i'm bumper to bumper to the car in front (Lexus IS F). It understeers a bit but giving full throttle increases the grip slightly. Entering a corner too fast can be solved by slightly pull the e-brake, although that move will cost a second or two. Overall it's easy to drive for a car with that amount of power.

kikie
A lot of people don't know what understeer is. .....

So:

* Let go off the throttle to reduce the speed of the car, to shift the weight of the car onto the front wheels so they get more grip.

👍

I agree with kikie that A lot of people don't know what understeer is. I digress.

Digital-Nitrate · Oct 29, 2007

kikie
A lot of people don't know what understeer is. In most cases, understeer happens when you turn in to a corner at a speed that is too high. The front wheels lose grip and the car slides over the front wheels straight to the outside of the turn. You try to turn the car even more, which is wrong because the force on the tires exceed what they can handle in a turn, and they lose even more grip.

*snip*

Great post again.

BTW: For those curious about learning more about understeer and oversteer, there have been several threads on the subject throughout GTP forums, like Oversteer or Underseer - What do you Prefer?. Also wikipedia's listing for Car Handling is a great jumping off point for researching far more detailed explanations on not just understeering and oversteering, but much more. 👍

Skid Mark 33 · Oct 29, 2007

Oh what! Where the hell is the Ferrari that they promised!

Digital-Nitrate · Oct 29, 2007

Skid Mark 33
Oh what! Where the hell is the Ferrari that they promised!

I must have missed something... either the

missing from that post, or the press release that ever said the F430 was going to be one of the cars available to drive in the demo.

If neither of those shows up, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you overlooked that this thread is about driving the cars in the demo. Seeing as the full game for GT5

isn't out yet it would be difficult for any of us to offer any personal opinions on how the Ferrari F430 drives in the game. 👍

FoolKiller · Oct 29, 2007

I just +rep'd both Kekke and Kikie. Good posts from both of you guys.

Beerz · Oct 29, 2007

FoolKiller
I just +rep'd both Kekke and Kikie. Good posts from both of you guys.

+1 👍

Fully agree.
Great base for a very interesting thread with lots of info exchange now open to everyone.

Earth · Oct 29, 2007

The physics engine has definitly improved, the difference between the handling/personality of the cars is very noticeable and makes for a realisitc driving experience

However I found that the Subaru Sti will oversteer exiting medium speed corners if you trust the car and apply throttle on the exit. It won't push and go straight but rather it will oversteer

The Lexus IS F is a dog, but I believe the idea there will be cars that handle like this in GT5 is great. If every car had decent to great handling then there would be no variety and no challenge.

Raitziger · Oct 30, 2007

kekke2000
The F430 is kinda like the big one for this game. I can only dream of a top tuned F430 in a GT game.

Yes. I can only dream of F430 Scuderia in GT. Scuderia clocked faster time than enzo in ferrari's test track.

Biggles · Oct 30, 2007

The physics engine has definitly improved, the difference between the handling/personality of the cars is very noticeable and makes for a realisitc driving experience

Unfortunately, anyone who's played GT4 is going to be only too familiar with understeer. :grumpy:

An occasional oversteer would be nice!

not to mention more realistic tire physics & weight transfer. Braking under cornering & recovering from mistakes are just way too easy in GT4. Please , please tell me these have been significantly improved in the GT5

demo.

Raitziger · Oct 30, 2007

Biggles
Unfortunately, anyone who's played GT4 is going to be only too familiar with understeer. An occasional oversteer would be nice! not to mention more realistic tire physics & weight transfer. Braking under cornering & recovering from mistakes are just way too easy in GT4. Please , please tell me these have been significantly improved in the GT5 demo.

It is way better. Drifting is much easier when you are on limit. I have no complaints with physics.(exc. colision/damage)
GT5

rologue is the most impressive racing game i ever played.

Video by BreakerOhio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVtp4cxwk1E

gargleblaster · Oct 30, 2007

Digital-Nitrate
Great post again.

BTW: For those curious about learning more about understeer and oversteer, there have been several threads on the subject throughout GTP forums, like Oversteer or Underseer - What do you Prefer?. Also wikipedia's listing for Car Handling is a great jumping off point for researching far more detailed explanations on not just understeering and oversteering, but much more. 👍

I would also recommend the following book if you're serious about improving your driving techniques in both games and on the street/track:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602025/?tag=gtplanet-20

Concepts of over- and understeer are explained simply, and then expanded upon to show the physics involved in grip and car control.

Rocket Punch · Oct 30, 2007

gargleblaster
I would also recommend the following book if you're serious about improving your driving techniques in both games and on the street/track:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602025/?tag=gtplanet-20

Concepts of over- and understeer are explained simply, and then expanded upon to show the physics involved in grip and car control.

👍👍 Great recommendation.

Since we are into books. These are the two that is on my shelf:

51nk-FlLfSL._BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

Personally I would stay away form the wiki stuff and also there is a so called "Setup Matrix" floating on the net that contains a full section of wrong information. :nervous:

kikie · Oct 30, 2007

gargleblaster
I would also recommend the following book if you're serious about improving your driving techniques in both games and on the street/track:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602025/?tag=gtplanet-20

Concepts of over- and understeer are explained simply, and then expanded upon to show the physics involved in grip and car control.

Thanks for the link! I'm going to find this book in a local book shop, because I don't have a credit card and I can't buy stuff online.

This is what I found about the author, which is a former Belgian F1 driver: Wikipedia

gargleblaster · Oct 30, 2007

I don't see the info in your post, but Paul Frere has an impressive racing resume for sure. I own that book, and it's a good read in addition to having good technical detail. It has been updated recently to cover new technology such as ABS, traction control, AWD, etc. The fundamentals of racing, such as line selection, passing, grip, etc. really haven't changed since the author raced professionally, so his thoughts do still hold relevance.

Earth · Oct 30, 2007

Biggles
Unfortunately, anyone who's played GT4 is going to be only too familiar with understeer. An occasional oversteer would be nice! not to mention more realistic tire physics & weight transfer. Braking under cornering & recovering from mistakes are just way too easy in GT4. Please , please tell me these have been significantly improved in the GT5 demo.

The following is based off of Professional Physics

I can assure you this demo is a major step forward for the Gran Turismo franchise

As kekke2000 said, the Lexus IS F oversteers at all speeds and can be a handful. But taming the beast can be an enjoyable challenge.

I found the the Subaru STi to oversteer when entering corners at high speeds or exiting corners at medium speeds. It's oversteer is not as dramatic as the IS F but definitly noticeable. All cars do not oversteer though, which is realistic, the Nissan GT-R ranges from Neutral to understeer. But some cars do oversteer now, that is a fact.

If you brake while cornering in GT5

the demo you will either break the backend loose and spin out if you are on entry or you will simply slide the front tires if you are on exit.

As for recovering from mistakes I can tell you in GT5

the demo it is both tougher AND easier to recover from mistakes. If you try and throw a car around the course like you would in previous GT games you will find yourself spinning out no doubt. You definitly will find yourself at first tip tiptoeing around the track until you find the limit of the car. Each car does everything a little different, so this takes a while.

It is also easier to recover from certain mistakes as I noticed several times. For the first time ever I drifted a car, but it was unintentional. I was exiting the first corner in the Nissan GT-R when I got on the gas too hard and the back end stepped out. I didn't want to get out of the gas so I fought with the wheel and what do you know, the car difted for a bit and after wiggling the backend it straightened up and I was on may way. The whole thing looked and felt realistic. I was very impressed. All of this would never happen in GT4. I would know, as I still drive GT4 to this day regularly. Sadly, everytime I do drive GT4 I am reminded as to how vastly inferior it is to the GT5

demo in every aspect.

No incar view, no oversteer, tons of understeer, stupid AI that runs you off the road, and not much of a challenge driving the cars.

Believe me when I say GT5

is a very, very big improvement over Gran Turismo 4.

Dragonistic · Oct 30, 2007

Earth
Believe me when I say GT5 is a very, very big improvement over Gran Turismo 4.

So very true, I couldn't agree more. The GT5

Demo we have is so much more challenging as mistakes are often much more punishing such as braking just that bit to late, or missing the apex of a corner. But being a little to throttle happy can often end up in a rewarding slide rather then finding the back end overtaking the front.

kekke2000 · Oct 30, 2007

Earth
If you brake while cornering in GT5 the demo you will either break the backend loose and spin out if you are on entry or you will simply slide the front tires if you are on exit.

I noticed that too with the STi between the first two corners. If you get too much angle before braking, the rear tires will lock and it will go straight to the sand. Never experienced this in GT4. Very realistic indeed.

canieaturchikn · Oct 31, 2007

i like driving the evo just so i can watch the replay and look at my favorite car. the NSX!

red7 · Nov 5, 2007

Kekke, just curious, when you say that the rear tires lock, a physical stop of rotation lock? or the rear sliding as mentioned above.

J-PaP · Nov 5, 2007

must agree with a few others regarding the sti. i have had on a few occasions drifted my way around the first 2 corners. I remember thinking "oh no sand trap" then managed to hold it through the corners with a nice amount of smoke and an excellent replay to boot

kekke2000 · Nov 5, 2007

red7
Kekke, just curious, when you say that the rear tires lock, a physical stop of rotation lock? or the rear sliding as mentioned above.

I don't know, it's just how it feels.

J-PaP
must agree with a few others regarding the sti. i have had on a few occasions drifted my way around the first 2 corners. I remember thinking "oh no sand trap" then managed to hold it through the corners with a nice amount of smoke and an excellent replay to boot

Yes thats what i'm talking about, it's a fun car to play with but not a racer.

Test of the Demo cars

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