◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open 

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speed is speed. Racecraft is understanding what your rights are at any given moment, as well as learning how to overcome situations that are beyond your control. I.e. another car losing control or abusing his/her rights.
 
It might be more accurate to say that car control can allow you to improve your speed... and car control would also allow you to improve your racecraft... but yeah they're separate.

ParkerMO125
speed is speed. Racecraft is understanding what your rights are at any given moment, as well as learning how to overcome situations that are beyond your control. I.e. another car losing control or abusing his/her rights.
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All I remember from last night is spinning with the BMW on the tunnel and stopping. Then, someone just T-boned me. :lol: But it was mostly my fault because I came to stop on the racing lane hahaha All in all, had a pretty good time on the Blue room last night. Can't wait for Sunday!
 
ATLskydiver
Actually, it's been my experience that they are somewhat separate. I've seen lighting quick guys that have no qualms leaning on you in a corner, closing in on an apex when you have a right to be there, or not leaving space for you on the outside. I've also seen (and race with frequently because of this league) guys that are slower than me, but that handle all of the above situations correctly and almost never initiate contact. What happens is the first guy can initially get up to the top divisions, then gets enough incidents filed against him to get kicked out. But while the respectful guys develop friendships, and i think that is helpful in some ways, it doesn't directly make them faster. You get faster on a lap basis mostly by learning the lines and executing. You do have to integrate the two together for wheel to wheel racing to do well though. Racecraft helps your points on race night, but not your qualifying (which i would consider your "speed"). Just my 2 cents.
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I wonder how many people would be interested in, or would volunteer to review, a sort of inverse to an incident report; something that allows people to nominate drivers for excellent examples of race craft...

I've only raced with SNAIL for the last two weeks, and perhaps this is more a personal anxiety issue than a general consensus, but so far I've gone into both Sundays with an overwhelming feeling of fear of the Incident Report, possibly to the point of it causing me to make mistakes I may not have otherwise made. Something about the process just feels so shameful and embarrassing that I almost hope I do get reported sometime soon just so I can get past that stigma.

Your post actually has me thinking about this, because really, according to how SNAIL data is recorded, only one of the two essential parts of racing is measured to its fullest. With speed, you can be fast and first, slow and last, or somewhere in between... but with race craft, you can only get it wrong (according to data). To get it right is to simply not be acknowledged, to get it wrong is to be reported, penalized, and go on probation.

This is why my opening idea here appeals to me (which would clearly need time, effort, and some definite refining), because if we could somehow publicly acknowledge drivers for their moments of brilliant, clean, race craft... aggressive patience... clean overtakes... then we would have more than fear of getting it wrong to motivate us, and we would also have brilliant examples set up to show drivers exactly what good race craft means.
 
ATLskydiver
It might be more accurate to say that car control can allow you to improve your speed... and car control would also allow you to improve your racecraft... but yeah they're separate.
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sorry forgot to add yea imo they are seperate in terms of getting better at them

learn to drive(control)
learn to drive with others(racecraft)
learn why the guys in front are in front(speed)
 
Severn
I wonder how many people would be interested in, or would volunteer to review, a sort of inverse to an incident report; something that allows people to nominate drivers for excellent examples of race craft...

I've only raced with SNAIL for the last two weeks, and perhaps this is more a personal anxiety issue than a general consensus, but so far I've gone into both Sundays with an overwhelming feeling of fear of the Incident Report, possibly to the point of it causing me to make mistakes I may not have otherwise made. Something about the process just feels so shameful and embarrassing that I almost hope I do get reported sometime soon just so I can get past that stigma.

Your post actually has me thinking about this, because really, according to how SNAIL data is recorded, only one of the two essential parts of racing is measured to its fullest. With speed, you can be fast and first, slow and last, or somewhere in between... but with race craft, you can only get it wrong (according to data). To get it right is to simply not be acknowledged, to get it wrong is to be reported, penalized, and go on probation.

This is why my opening idea here appeals to me (which would clearly need time, effort, and some definite refining), because if we could somehow publicly acknowledge drivers for their moments of brilliant, clean, race craft... aggressive patience... clean overtakes... then we would have more than fear of getting it wrong to motivate us, and we would also have brilliant examples set up to show drivers exactly what good race craft means.
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Check out the GranStand Challenge tab of the results doc. You'll see the cleanest drivers (and most active to be fair) rising to the top of that list for a better chance at winning a real life prize.
 
In this "game"...

Racecraft is not car control. It is self control.

You can learn to drive fast. You can learn to drive fast in a group.

The key is controlling the animal inside who is telling you to dive in super deep (you can out brake ANYONE...forcing them to change their line is how you win!), lean on the other driver a little (if he doesn't spin out then it's ok!), don't leave room for the guy on your rear quarter panel (he's behind you, you have corner rights...screw him)....etc etc.

It's about respecting your fellow drivers. Treat others how you want to be treated. This is basic life morals...

Some people are part of the "entitled" group where nothing is their fault and you are but a side swipe and speed bump to them. You are blocking their view of the promised land. Win at all costs.

Some are just the opposite...respect your fellow man...give room and have fun.
 
JoeW
In this "game"...

Racecraft is not car control. It is self control.

You can learn to drive fast. You can learn to drive fast in a group.

The key is controlling the animal inside who is telling you to dive in super deep (you can out brake ANYONE...forcing them to change their line is how you win!), lean on the other driver a little (if he doesn't spin out then it's ok!), don't leave room for the guy on your rear quarter panel (he's behind you, you have corner rights...screw him)....etc etc.

It's about respecting your fellow drivers. Treat others how you want to be treated. This is basic life morals...

Some people are part of the "entitled" group where nothing is their fault and you are but a side swipe and speed bump to them. You are blocking their view of the promised land. Win at all costs.

Some are just the opposite...respect your fellow man...give room and have fun.
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Very true, but every once in a while I get tired of making room for the guy that I know is going to do something stupid to try and get around me.
 
Mirado_7
Check out the GranStand Challenge tab of the results doc. You'll see the cleanest drivers (and most active to be fair) rising to the top of that list for a better chance at winning a real life prize.
Click to expand...

That's pretty cool, but I guess it still feels like "look how long I can go without screwing up" to me...

I guess what I'm thinking is really just a highlight reel of sorts, where the week's best overtakes, battles, etc... things that really exemplify good race craft, across all divisions, get put on display and the drivers get some warm fuzzies from knowing they made this week's reel (because let's be honest, who wouldn't feel cool knowing they made any highlight reel).

Again, I'm not saying this would be easy, or that I have any specifics on the best way to make that work, I just think it would be cool and a good way of showing good racing, instead of just penalizing the bad racing.
 
JLBowler
Very true, but every once in a while I get tired of making room for the guy that I know is going to do something stupid to try and get around me.
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It's hard racing with people who make bad choices or who you know will make bad choices. Those are the times that test us :)

I'm not saying I don't struggle with my inner demon on the track sometimes as well. My biggest two areas of inner weakness come when 1) racing in situations @JLBowler mentioned and 2) racing a combo I am good at with zero practice.

Since I get no practice, if there is a combo that just "speaks to me", I feel an urgency to get to the front because I know this combo is my only chance to score points for the night. So I sometimes struggle driving like I want to in the heat of the moment. But I am always trying to get better....
 
Racecraft can be defined with one word.

Sacrifice.

Severn
I wonder how many people would be interested in, or would volunteer to review, a sort of inverse to an incident report; something that allows people to nominate drivers for excellent examples of race craft...

I've only raced with SNAIL for the last two weeks, and perhaps this is more a personal anxiety issue than a general consensus, but so far I've gone into both Sundays with an overwhelming feeling of fear of the Incident Report, possibly to the point of it causing me to make mistakes I may not have otherwise made. Something about the process just feels so shameful and embarrassing that I almost hope I do get reported sometime soon just so I can get past that stigma.

Your post actually has me thinking about this, because really, according to how SNAIL data is recorded, only one of the two essential parts of racing is measured to its fullest. With speed, you can be fast and first, slow and last, or somewhere in between... but with race craft, you can only get it wrong (according to data). To get it right is to simply not be acknowledged, to get it wrong is to be reported, penalized, and go on probation.

This is why my opening idea here appeals to me (which would clearly need time, effort, and some definite refining), because if we could somehow publicly acknowledge drivers for their moments of brilliant, clean, race craft... aggressive patience... clean overtakes... then we would have more than fear of getting it wrong to motivate us, and we would also have brilliant examples set up to show drivers exactly what good race craft means.
Click to expand...

Your opening idea was discussed some time ago. It even went to so far as posting examples in the main thread and the poster and the example were awarded SNAIL currency ($hells) for their efforts. There used to be a nomination and voting process for awarding "Best Racecraft" awards. Both those efforts went quietly into the night.

If you would like to pick up this ball and run with it, you're more than welcome to go for it. It will likely take a crew similar to the SNAIL Steward Corp, and the resources similar to what they use, to make it fair and consistent. It will also take the involvement and commitment of the SNAIL population at large, to keep it active and relevant.
 
Severn
I wonder how many people would be interested in, or would volunteer to review, a sort of inverse to an incident report; something that allows people to nominate drivers for excellent examples of race craft...

I've only raced with SNAIL for the last two weeks, and perhaps this is more a personal anxiety issue than a general consensus, but so far I've gone into both Sundays with an overwhelming feeling of fear of the Incident Report, possibly to the point of it causing me to make mistakes I may not have otherwise made. Something about the process just feels so shameful and embarrassing that I almost hope I do get reported sometime soon just so I can get past that stigma.

Your post actually has me thinking about this, because really, according to how SNAIL data is recorded, only one of the two essential parts of racing is measured to its fullest. With speed, you can be fast and first, slow and last, or somewhere in between... but with race craft, you can only get it wrong (according to data). To get it right is to simply not be acknowledged, to get it wrong is to be reported, penalized, and go on probation.

This is why my opening idea here appeals to me (which would clearly need time, effort, and some definite refining), because if we could somehow publicly acknowledge drivers for their moments of brilliant, clean, race craft... aggressive patience... clean overtakes... then we would have more than fear of getting it wrong to motivate us, and we would also have brilliant examples set up to show drivers exactly what good race craft means.
Click to expand...
I also like the idea and there was talk about it some 35,000 posts ago. I would be happy to bat around ideas and see if we can get something going.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...n-the-same-night.235094/page-699#post-8014094

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...n-the-same-night.235094/page-701#post-8017603
 
jobyone
I also like the idea and there was talk about it some 35,000 posts ago. I would be happy to bat around ideas and see if we can get something going.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/◆-s-n-a-i-l-spec-racing-by-granstand-sim-racing-products-100-members-racing-on-the-same-night.235094/page-699#post-8014094

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/◆-s-n-a-i-l-spec-racing-by-granstand-sim-racing-products-100-members-racing-on-the-same-night.235094/page-701#post-8017603
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I would also like to volunteer for that (time permitting)! I think just was we focus on the race craft improvement; there are multiple excellent opportunities to show great race craft!
 
Newbie Question!

How do I watch the replays? Got access to Google Drive... downloaded the replay files to my PC... now what? They are not in a format recognized by a pc as a media file.
 
MajorBlixem
Newbie Question!

How do I watch the replays? Got access to Google Drive... downloaded the replay files to my PC... now what? They are not in a format recognized by a pc as a media file.
Click to expand...

GT6 replays can only be watch in GT6. download to PC then get them on a USB drive. Copy them to the XMB and then "import" them at the GT6 replay section under galleries.

...and whatever you do...don't change the folder names!
 
MajorBlixem
Newbie Question!

How do I watch the replays? Got access to Google Drive... downloaded the replay files to my PC... now what? They are not in a format recognized by a pc as a media file.
Click to expand...

If that doesn't make sense to you, go on youtube and search for "kcheeb" and you'll some video's he has about how to do this and several other helpful SNAIL videos.
 
jobyone
I also like the idea and there was talk about it some 35,000 posts ago. I would be happy to bat around ideas and see if we can get something going.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/◆-s-n-a-i-l-spec-racing-by-granstand-sim-racing-products-100-members-racing-on-the-same-night.235094/page-699#post-8014094

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/◆-s-n-a-i-l-spec-racing-by-granstand-sim-racing-products-100-members-racing-on-the-same-night.235094/page-701#post-8017603
Click to expand...
Wolfsatz
I would also like to volunteer for that (time permitting)! I think just was we focus on the race craft improvement; there are multiple excellent opportunities to show great race craft!
Click to expand...

This is what I'm thinking, in really really basic terms, and if anyone has an alternative idea or if we should take the conversation private feel free to let me/us know.

After race night people can either file a Good Racing Report, or just literally post on the thread afterwards (this will always be compliments, no need to keep it hush hush), giving pretty much all of the information that one would give in an Incident Report... Driver (or drivers) involved, which race, which lap, approximate time range in the replay, and a brief description.

After a certain amount of time, the nominations will end and reviewers (or really anyone who wants to look up the nominations and watch the replays) will go review each nomination and vote on good racing, and just overall awesomeness.

After reviews are complete and votes are compiled, what I think would be cool is to take the top 3-5 clips and put them together in a well edited "SNAIL Highlight Reel", showing the winner, who nominated them, etc... However, as this would require someone dedicating a lot of time to this... at the very least we could list the winners with detailed descriptions of each of the winning scenarios with some pictures and such, racing recap/magazine/newspaper style.

Whether or not there were $hells awarded, or any sort of points at all beyond simply the attention would be up to the greater powers that be... but in reality I don't think it would be needed, as really, we're just trying to say that "Hey, people have noticed how awesome it was to race with you this weekend. Good job."
 
Yeah the Reputation points idea is a good one.

I like the idea of a secret ballot vote where people can get scored on a number basis...low to high...and get a good or bad rep from their peers based on how others feel that you drive with others.

It would be cool to see this used on Thursday practice night to curb the craziness.
 
Severn
This is what I'm thinking, in really really basic terms, and if anyone has an alternative idea or if we should take the conversation private feel free to let me/us know.

After race night people can either file a Good Racing Report, or just literally post on the thread afterwards (this will always be compliments, no need to keep it hush hush), giving pretty much all of the information that one would give in an Incident Report... Driver (or drivers) involved, which race, which lap, approximate time range in the replay, and a brief description.

After a certain amount of time, the nominations will end and reviewers (or really anyone who wants to look up the nominations and watch the replays) will go review each nomination and vote on good racing, and just overall awesomeness.

After reviews are complete and votes are compiled, what I think would be cool is to take the top 3-5 clips and put them together in a well edited "SNAIL Highlight Reel", showing the winner, who nominated them, etc... However, as this would require someone dedicating a lot of time to this... at the very least we could list the winners with detailed descriptions of each of the winning scenarios with some pictures and such, racing recap/magazine/newspaper style.

Whether or not there were $hells awarded, or any sort of points at all beyond simply the attention would be up to the greater powers that be... but in reality I don't think it would be needed, as really, we're just trying to say that "Hey, people have noticed how awesome it was to race with you this weekend. Good job."
Click to expand...
My only issue with this is the time involved for each individual to download, save, transfer and watch the replays. Take it from a steward this eats in to a lot of time that could be spent racing. I might be surprised but I would expect a lot rate of participation. I am not trying to be a downer just giving my thoughts.
 
jobyone
My only issue with this is the time involved for each individual to download, save, transfer and watch the replays. Take it from a steward this eats in to a lot of time that could be spent racing. I might be surprised but I would expect a lot rate of participation. I am not trying to be a downer just giving my thoughts.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about being a downer, I fully agree that it would be potentially a huge time sink for whomever volunteered to do something like this... I'm fully open to suggestions. I just think it would be a good thing to have something entertaining that had literally zero negative psychological impact; something that people could look forward to watching (or reading about) about the really good things that happened across the league to kind of counter-balance the weight of the "Race is over, Incident reporting time" effect.
 
I'm not going to be able to make it to roc this is bad. I want to do it but won't be home in time.wish we could do it on saturday
 
Finished the Steward Reviews that I'm eligible to review. Off for some kid/family activities. Good luck & have fun, y'all.
 

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