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[Pizzle13]

Ok, although that may be your experience it can't be that of everyone else's. Maybe a few good moments someone has shouldn't dictate a quick promotion? Either way, people are complaining from both sides yet the only reasonable solution (division reassignment) is apparently off the table because of standards already set within the lower divisions.

Maybe D1 should be reserved for those who can clearly keep up rather than for those who just out pace lower divisions? Maybe D2's consistency should be all around better rather than the few who stand out leaving once they show what they can do? Higher standards for promotion (at least from D2 to D1) should be taken into consideration, regardless.

@LLOYDZELITE69 I doubt intimidation plays any tangible factor in this.

thats what bothers me the most actually
as of now 3 people in d1 are just in the way including me
and i dont want to ruin the night for the "real" d1 drivers
i dont mind coming in last but it has to be in a reasonable timeframe
also i agree with what you said about d2 standards
i dont think a D2 driver should get into D1 because he might win everytime
it should be measured by how much seconds he wins all the time ... if they win by several seconds every race then ok ... they should get into D1 but if he then is several seconds behind in d1 then obviosuly everybody in d2 should really be in d3 and so on ...

i cant really comment on other Division competition because this was my first race ever and i got put into D1 straight away, so i dont really know about the other divisions competition
but it should be measured by D1 downwards, now it felt like it is measured by lowest div to upwards

 

[LLOYDZELITE69]

I have a feeling @Kgffy and myself started this whole thing

 

[JLBowler]

Fun fact from data for the day.

A driver that was promoted this month was used for the example. I took a race night at random from last month and the first night in the new division and compared gap times at the end of the race.

In one division the total time elapsed between the driver finishing directly ahead of them and directly behind them in all six races was 18 seconds. That's pretty good right? Finishing the race at an average of having a car 1.5 ahead and 1.5 behind in every race. The shortest gap was .1 seconds and the largest was 4.3 seconds.

In the other division the total time elapsed between the driver ahead and behind was 9.9 seconds. If the first division was good, this one must be better as the racing is closer at the end of the race. The closest gap was .1 seconds and the largest was 3.6.

Which division would you rather be in?

 

[Skills]

Looks like we are missing:

D1 Results (all races)
D1 votes
D5 Results (race 6 only)
D5 votes

Did WC run last night? If so, no results or votes are recorded.

If you want me to input data, just PM me the relevant info - No need to drop in the main thread.

Who qualified for pole for each combo
Finishing position for all drivers for each race
Who voted for which combo.

PS - easiest way to get most of the data is to take a pic of the "Live timing" data at the end of the race. Note who starts in position 1 for races 1,3,5 if you are watching your replays for Pole.

D5 race 6 and my vote have been entered in the Directors Doc.

 

[Neovre]

I have a feeling @Kgffy and myself started this whole thing

Now you know to be careful what you may start here for future reference lol

 

[Handlebar]

Just waiting on @qwietstorm to enter D1 when he gets home.

 

[jobyone]

Either way, people are complaining from both sides yet the only reasonable solution (division reassignment) is apparently off the table because of standards already set within the lower divisions.

So are you saying that the work done to re-align the divisions was wrong? Look every month hard decisions are made to make sure that each division has as many people racing as possible. This month you are in a division you have no chance or winning. Welcome to the club. This is true for people in every division. Over time most people end up in the most suitable division This does not mean they will be able to win just that it is the division that they fit in to best while not allowing them to dominate.

When you signed up to take part in the league you agreed to the rules and regulations. While discussion is fine you are not looking at this from a league perspective. The decisions made and rule changes are made to improve the league not one individuals enjoyment of the league.

 

[LLOYDZELITE69]

Now you know to be careful what you may start here for future reference lol

Pffft maybe

 

[Rallywagon]

Hi guys! Hows life been? I see that people still love digging up the horse to give it a good beating.

 

[Pizzle13]

So are you saying that the work done to re-align the divisions was wrong? Look every month hard decisions are made to make sure that each division has as many people racing as possible. This month you are in a division you have no chance or winning. Welcome to the club. This is true for people in every division. Over time most people end up in the most suitable division This does not mean they will be able to win just that it is the division that they fit in to best while not allowing them to dominate.

When you signed up to take part in the league you agreed to the rules and regulations. While discussion is fine you are not looking at this from a league perspective. The decisions made and rule changes are made to improve the league not one individuals enjoyment of the league.

i think what he is saying it should be realigned from top to bottom
now it feels like it is realigned from bottom to top when you consider the apparently "high" jump/gap from d2 to d1
maybe d2 should really be d3 etc but we cant do it because it is spiraled upwards ... we cant have a D0

again, i have no idea how the other Division hold up ... as it was my first race ever and i got put into D1 straight away ... but thats just my common sense.

 

[Rallywagon]

i think what he is saying it should be realigned from top to bottom
now it feels like it is realigned from bottom to top when you consider the apparently "high" jump from d2 to d1

Honestly from the bottom up makes more sense. But no, that is not how this is done, nor is it top down. It's more like from the middle out, except not really that either. Each division is considered separately, and together.

 

[JLBowler]

i think what he is saying it should be realigned from top to bottom
now it feels like it is realigned from bottom to top when you consider the apparently "high" jump from d2 to d1

It's not aligned from top to bottom or bottom to top. It's aligned to try and provide consistently full grids across all divisions while still providing competition for all drivers. Nowhere does it say that all drivers will be able to compete for a win. If you don't believe me, ask some of the guys that have been here for a year or two and can count the number of races they have won on one hand. Google a bell curve and when you understand that, you will understand what happens in the top division and the lowest division.

 

[hognhominy]

 

[Pizzle13]

i think the fastest divsion should be reference point for all other divisions
everything else makes no sense and we get crazy gaps when moving up or down ... either too much or too less

 

[Pizzle13]

It's not aligned from top to bottom or bottom to top. It's aligned to try and provide consistently full grids across all divisions while still providing competition for all drivers.

thanks for clearing that up this way theres always going to be people way out of place
everything is cleared up now, thanks for informing me
if i understood this correct, snail dont got enough variety of drivers for "all" their divisions they have

Edit:
sorry for double post

 

[BayouSimDrifter]

Seems we have alot of new people complaining about how we been operating here.

 

[Skills]

Everyone pretend you're @JLBowler. If you can do it better, step up and stop *itching.

 

[JLBowler]

thanks for clearing that up this way theres always going to be people way out of place
everything is cleared up now, thanks for informing me
if i understood this correct, snail dont got enough variety of drivers for "all" their divisions they have

Edit:
sorry for double post

You've been here for how long? I am now done with you as I refuse to invest more time into trying to explain something to you that you either can't or don't want to understand.

 

[Pizzle13]

Everyone pretend you're @JLBowler. If you can do it better, step up and stop *itching.

i think he does an ok job
im new and now he cleared me up on why there are sometimes such huge gaps wether you move down or up
the main goal is to have full grids and secondary goal is competition
and i was thinking it was the other way around thats why i initially said it should be referenced from top to bottom
but since i now know how it works, im alright with it ... full grids all the way

 

[Skills]

i think he does an ok job
im new and now he cleared me up on why there are sometimes such huge gaps wether you move down or up
the main goal is to have full grids and secondary goal is competition
and i was thinking it was the other way around thats why i initially said it should be referenced from top to bottom
but since i now know how it works, im alright with it ... full grids all the way

Full grids indeed!

 

[Rallywagon]

That should have been a picture of a guy beating a dead horse. This matter seems to cycle, next will be tires again, than the penalty system, after that the points system. A few others will pop up, then the cycle will start all over again. The thing is, no one has offered a better solution, which is why the rules and regs barely changed in over a year. I'm not against debate or discussion, however, if you are going to object, do so with something more than just a box of whine to offer. OK. That's my piece, back to the important stuff. How's it going fellas! Been so long since I've raced with you guys. I may have to pull something together and get in on a Sunday night soon.

edit: Yikes this thread still moves faster than a person can keep up with!

 

[jobyone]

That should have been a picture of a guy beating a dead horse. This matter seems to cycle, next will be tires again, than the penalty system, after that the points system. A few others will pop up, then the cycle will start all over again. The thing is, no one has offered a better solution, which is why the rules and regs barely changed in over a year. I'm not against debate or discussion, however, if you are going to object, do so with something more than just a box of whine to offer. OK. That's my piece, back to the important stuff. How's it going fellas! Been so long since I've raced with you guys. I may have to pull something together and get in on a Sunday night soon.

If you do race just make sure to let us know what you don't like

 

[Skills]

How's it going fellas! Been so long since I've raced with you guys. I may have to pull something together and get in on a Sunday night soon.

Yes, yes you do but please complete the time trial again so we can make sure you're not incorrectly placed in the wrong division.

edit-Essentially ninja'd by the one who is Joby.

edit: Yikes this thread still moves faster than a person can keep up with!

Since Now Aliens Infiltrated the League

 

[IceWarden]

With the league contracting into fewer divisions this is what happens. It's about filling the grids for all divisions.

D1 was running with fewer than 8 people most of the time (as were alot of divisions). So a few D2 guys had to be moved up. Ready or not. The same happened to all divisions so they aren't picking on you.


Let's say D1 was down to 4 regulars. All of them two seconds faster than anyone in the league. You can't expect them to run in a group of 3-4 guys every Sunday. So, to fill the grid, people need to be moved in there. Don't roll over and die, give em hell! If there were 16 guys in that room I guarantee there would be no 98 point winners. Unless everyone just pulled over and parked.

Increasing the population adds pressure, fun and more chances for everyone to get better.

@Inconspicuous
@Pizzle13

The above is something I wrote not long ago when this was brought up.

You don't seem to grasp one simple thought process. These types of things are like the Bell Curve. There are extreme examples at either end of the divisions. If you are the absolute slowest guy in the league, there is nowhere to be demoted to. If you are the absolute fastest, there is no one to challenge you for supremacy.

The top division probably has 4-5 guys who are the absolute fastest guys. You may be in the top 15 in the league, but not the top 5. This is life. It sounds like you want the top 5 guys to go race by themselves so the rest of you can finally have a chance.

But the fact remains, the top division has room for the 15 best. Not 4 or 5. If you want everyone to have an equal chance at winning then you need to enter a league that handicaps drivers by adding weight or lowering power. A spec league is not the place for you.

Spec racing is no excuses, most talented guys win. You are lucky this a league with enough divisions to even it out as much as they do.

 

[Rallywagon]

Yep no problem, no worries about me being faster, I don't think the time I've spent on a boat or lost in Minecraft is going to translate to faster times.

 

[JLBowler]

i think he does an ok job
im new and now he cleared me up on why there are sometimes such huge gaps wether you move down or up
the main goal is to have full grids and secondary goal is competition
and i was thinking it was the other way around thats why i initially said it should be referenced from top to bottom
but since i now know how it works, im alright with it ... full grids all the way

I said I was done but if you want to start putting words in my mouth then we have a problem. Never have I said that full grids were more important than competition. It's a combined top priority when putting the divisions together and that is exactly what I said.

There is and most likely always will be a bigger gap in skill between the top of D1 and D6 and the bottom of D1 and D6 (or whatever the lowest division is) because that is how it works. There is a smaller number of drivers that are in the elite class and there are a smaller number of drivers at the bottom. This is a remedial lesson on how a bell curve works and that is what we have here. Until you understand that, I can't help you any further.

 

[AJKVail]

Ninjad by Bowler! I'll say it again, Where is APPMADOCK when you need him!

 

[Inconspicuous]

So are you saying that the work done to re-align the divisions was wrong? Look every month hard decisions are made to make sure that each division has as many people racing as possible. This month you are in a division you have no chance or winning. Welcome to the club. This is true for people in every division. Over time most people end up in the most suitable division This does not mean they will be able to win just that it is the division that they fit in to best while not allowing them to dominate.

When you signed up to take part in the league you agreed to the rules and regulations. While discussion is fine you are not looking at this from a league perspective. The decisions made and rule changes are made to improve the league not one individuals enjoyment of the league.

I'm sure there are and I'm not knocking that nor the functionality of the staff as a whole BUT from seeing as how people seem to be reacting to the current situation some sort of change seems reasonable and necessary, otherwise it's just going to continue in the future.

I'm looking at this from the perspective of even racing throughout the divisions, as S.N.A.I.L. Rightfully* promotes.

Yes, there's a bit of work involved as far as adding angles to look at when considering a promotion, but if it get's the job done right and relieves tension, for members and staff, there's definitely merit to it for the league itself.

I'm not in this discussion for myself, by the way. I know how D1 is and if I thought I would be just some back marker I'd ask for a reassignment myself.

 

[Handlebar]

Heya @Rallywagon !

Glad to see you're coming back around - you're not a dead horse, are ya, man?

 

[Pizzle13]

I said I was done but if you want to start putting words in my mouth then we have a problem. Never have I said that full grids were more important than competition. It's a combined top priority when putting the divisions together and that is exactly what I said.

i didnt mean to put words in your mouth
probably just understood your previous comment wrong:
"It's not aligned from top to bottom or bottom to top. It's aligned to try and provide consistently full grids across all divisions while still providing competition for all drivers."

i assumed the full grid is a top priority since you mentioned it first with a "try" and then said "while" providing competition
so i said to myself ok, full grid first, and then we see about the drivers thats how i took it

my bad jlbowler