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[Apmaddock]

I tend to agree with Rally and tez. London's tight and it sucks, but that doesn't mean that we should semi-artificially make the track wider.

I also haven't looked at it, yet, but I know the course fairly well. I've got one little test that normally answers questions like this for me, I'll take a look at that soon.

Edit: Now I have looked at it and would definitely say that you should stay off of the curbing. The mini-map shows the curbing as off track, so I'd go with that.

To those worried about the stewards having to judge it all: don't be. We have to make decisions on track shorting for most tracks. We aren't going to watch all of the replays to find it, we'll take tips from other drivers as usual.

Also, as per the SNAIL OLR: Penalties for ghosting violations, or for cutting corner or going four wheels off track to gain an advantage can be reported directly to the Steward by any driver witnessing the problem without talking to the other driver first.

 

[zer05ive]

Hey ap, it's not fair that drgreen loses points for fujigate, and I don't. Please deduct same points from my total.
Looking forward to great racing Sunday. Maybe not at London; that place scares me.

As you wish, Joe.

Okay, I've updated the results post again to reflect this new penalty.

Thanks for owning up to the penalty, Joe. Especially considering that D2 was ultra-competitive as always and that single penalty dropped you from 2nd all the way down to 6th.

During last nights practice in the Red Room, we tried out a new qualifying procedure that was designed to eliminate any confusion as to who's responsibility it is to concede space on the track in the event that two drivers get bunched up and potentially in each other's draft.

It's based on the qualifying etiquette I laid out here, but the procedure we tested last night ensures that everyone gives sufficient cushion to the driver in front of them. Therefore, if a driver ever pulls behind another driver and potentially into his draft, it is always the responsibility of the car in front to pull off the driving line and concede the position to the trailing driver. This is simply due to the fact the trailing driver has already established that he gave sufficient cushion when he began qualifying, so there is no need for him to ruin a hot lap due to someone else's mistake on the track.

Here's how it works.. Once everyone exits pit lane they form a single file line at Turn 1. Once the majority of the cars are there, the first person in line starts his out lap. The second person then counts to 10 (or less for smaller tracks) and starts his out lap. Then the third driver in line does the same and so on. As Wolfsatz mentioned earlier, it worked okay but it wasn't perfect. I'll leave it to each division's directors to determine the best qualifying method for their group of drivers.

 

[OUTLAW---666]

Real life sucks again .. i even bought the Volvo, i was all happy cause finally we would be racing FWD cars.
Shifts just came out, ill be working sunday night.
See you guys next week ( please dont send the Volvo away ... )

 

[Ridgeline]

Can I share this with my new racing buddies??

​

In celebration I'm doing a 14-day giveaway from my garage... click here for details

 

[DrKronin]

Can I share this with my new racing buddies??

In celebration I'm doing a 14-day giveaway from my garage... click here for details

Very nice!

I still have "The Air of Experience" left. I should really get on that, but B-Spec isn't really for me.

Congrats. That's a tough Platinum to get.

 

[zer05ive]

EPIC PLAT!! CONGRATS!!

 

[racefan78]

Any body want in on the Standard Car Thursday racing going on in div 2?

 

[Apmaddock]

Real life sucks again .. i even bought the Volvo, i was all happy cause finally we would be racing FWD cars.
Shifts just came out, ill be working sunday night.
See you guys next week ( please dont send the Volvo away ... )

Don't hold your breath. FWD cars have not fared well in SNAIL, and it being in London doesn't exactly give it any help.


Regarding Standard Car Thursday - sorry, man. The World Series is on and it's actually a good game.

 

[IceWarden]

That is a guy with some time on his hands.

 

[Ridgeline]

Very nice!

I still have "The Air of Experience" left. I should really get on that, but B-Spec isn't really for me.

Congrats. That's a tough Platinum to get.

Thanks man! Have Bob run the X2010 around Autumn Ring 500 times and its yours!

EPIC PLAT!! CONGRATS!!

It had to be done! Thanks!

That is a guy with some time on his hands.

Me? ER Physicians are 3 days on and 3 days off so, yea, I had some time on my hands!

See you guys Sunday!

 

[Handlebar]

Thanks man! ...
ER Physicians are 3 days on and 3 days off so, yea, I had some time on my hands!

ER Physician?

No... (trying to hold back...)

I need a doc - STAT!

(too many bad TV series...)

 

[Drgreenthumb977]

Standard cars race tonight was awesome

 

[jobyone]

Headed to D1 for some non-curb hoping FF action in London

 

[GumballCGT]

My best lap yesterday at London was mid 1.02; but 1.01s are possible for those from extra-terrestial origin.

My fastest was a 1:01.051. Was able to run consistent mid 1:01s on a new car with only oil change. I think under 1:01 is definitely possible.

 

[zeromisfit999]

I'm going to be honest with you guys. I cannot run a race line on London without cutting a few corners. I've watched a replay or two from my own practicing tonight, and although it can be done, I do not think anyone running in the 1:01-1:02 range can do so without cutting in the first section. Is it possible? Probably, but I just don't realistically see myself making two races without cutting any of these turns in this incredible understeering vehicle. I'll go back and watch the replays after sunday, and if I have any doubt in my mind that I cut corners, I will report myself, as well as anyone else I see do it, simply because I know it is against the rules, but I just can't seem to find a solid line without going all four off on at least one to two of the corners.

 

[Wolfsatz]

i'm going to be honest with you guys. I cannot run a race line on london without cutting a few corners. I've watched a replay or two from my own practicing tonight, and although it can be done, i do not think anyone running in the 1:01-1:02 range can do so without cutting in the first section. Is it possible? Probably, but i just don't realistically see myself making two races without cutting any of these turns in this incredible understeering vehicle. I'll go back and watch the replays after sunday, and if i have any doubt in my mind that i cut corners, i will report myself, as well as anyone else i see do it, simply because i know it is against the rules, but i just can't seem to find a solid line without going all four off on at least one to two of the corners.

ditto!!!

 

[pilmat]

Doesn't the GT5 racing line actually send inside the curbs at London? The track is designed to be raced this way, regardless of whether it is on the mini map. Plus, shouldn't GT5 penalize for 4 wheels inside like it does at Fuji? Racing here is going to suck with artificially narrowing the track. Let's keep this one simple, "the walls are out of bounds" and go from there, or even change the track and put it on a list of places we don't race. There are 4 places it is possible to go 4 wheels inside the curb here, corner 1-2-3 and the final hairpin, the stewards are going to go crazy!

Maybe they should just start by giving me a maximum points penalty and leave me race in peace

 

[Wolfsatz]

Doesn't the GT5 racing line actually send inside the curbs at London? The track is designed to be raced this way, regardless of whether it is on the mini map. Plus, shouldn't GT5 penalize for 4 wheels inside like it does at Fuji?

I agree with Pilmat; I think the track was designed to be raced this way; but rules are rules and many will try to bend them...

Anyway, as long as it is the same for all it's all good. I just really don't feel comfortable reporting someone for cutting these 4 corners... it just doesn't feel right to me.

Another topic for interesting debate!

 

[qwietstorm]

Thanks man! Have Bob run the X2010 around Autumn Ring 500 times and its yours!

I'm pretty sure it's more to it than that right??

 

[pilmat]

I'm pretty sure it's more to it than that right??

Nope LINK Just get one of your drivers to do 500 races total.

 

[kendawg]

I agree with Pilmat; I think the track was designed to be raced this way; but rules are rules and many will try to bend them...

Anyway, as long as it is the same for all it's all good. I just really don't feel comfortable reporting someone for cutting these 4 corners... it just doesn't feel right to me.

Another topic for interesting debate!

I agree too. If everyone has to stay off the curbs or we can run over the curbs what is the difference. We all can use the same line and no-one has to worry about if someone got four tires across the line through a 90 degree turn. Trying to run the course without cutting a couple of turns is very difficult and will cause major pile-ups.
If there are certain cars and tracks we can't use. This track should be one of them unless we run a car that is less than 350pp. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Apmaddock]

Consider it a challenge…

 

[kendawg]

Headed to D1 for some non-curb hoping FF action in London

Just run 30-35 mph through turns 1-4. No-one can pass you through there if you stay between the lines. Then you want have to worry about getting a penalty....hahaha

 

[kendawg]

London is great with the go-carts....

 

[pilmat]

London is great with the go-carts....

I think it's great with the Volvo The combo is a lot if fun, we just need to sort out the 4 wheels

 

[pilmat]

Sorry about the double post but the subject I think merits it.

I just ran a dozen laps at London with the Volvo to see the difference between "clean" and "4 wheels on". The big advantage for 4 wheels on is corner 2 and the last hairpin. That alone is almost half a second. Best lap clean: 1'02.2 Best lap 4 wheels on: 1'01.7 It is much harder to get a good lap using the 4 wheels on, but the reward is there, especially in turn 2. And that is the corner the GT5 even tells you to drive over with the racing line! Will driving 4 wheels on affect the racing here? My opinion is a strong NO. The track is well policed by the walls, which will punish you without mercy if you get too close.

I think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill. The OLR here should be interpreted as "the walls are the boundaries" for this track and lets get on with some racing

 

[Nicktune]

As long as you keep two wheels inside the white line it should be good. There's no white line at London.

 

[zer05ive]

Sorry about the double post but the subject I think merits it.

I just ran a dozen laps at London with the Volvo to see the difference between "clean" and "4 wheels on". The big advantage for 4 wheels on is corner 2 and the last hairpin. That alone is almost half a second. Best lap clean: 1'02.2 Best lap 4 wheels on: 1'01.7 It is much harder to get a good lap using the 4 wheels on, but the reward is there, especially in turn 2. And that is the corner the GT5 even tells you to drive over with the racing line! Will driving 4 wheels on affect the racing here? My opinion is a strong NO. The track is well policed by the walls, which will punish you without mercy if you get too close.

I think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill. The OLR here should be interpreted as "the walls are the boundaries" for this track and lets get on with some racing

I'm going to leave this up to the stewards to decide. They're the ones who will be reviewing the races and issuing penalties.

Also, I'll be out of pocket until Sunday night. There are some flounder on the coast waiting for me, and I don't want to disappoint them.

 

[kcheeb]

Consider this when running the Volvo and almost any other understeery car.

You only have 100% of the grip of the tires available for you, period. If you use 80% of the grip for braking you only have 20% of it for turning or accelerating. Getting your braking done before you turn in will give you more grip for turning, accelerating and staying within the curbing.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

I don't know what all the fuss is about regarding track boundaries. As far as I know we have always used the same rules as applies in WRS. 2 wheels on track. On this track that means the walls for most of it. In the corners at least 2 wheels on the RED and White kerbs.

Picture examples from WRS.


That being said, I would need to go through walls to get a good lap time here.

EDIT: Found a WRS event at London and they made an exception for this track. ALL SURFACES ARE TRACK. I'm recommending that we follow their standard.