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[TRL_Importlife]

Anybody want to jump in the loung ?

 

[RIP_Welsh_Don]

I heard some people say that the 458 Italia should not run Racing tires at all, but should have been on Sports tires. The harder tires do make the cars harder to drive and control which favors the more skilled drivers. But does it add to the experience when more of the field is spinning and suffering more contact as a result of reduced braking for instance. I just think that the racing is improved when more people have control of their car and the confidence to be as competitive as they can be

I think Neil has hit the 'nail on the head' here with the whole tyre debate. The more skilled drivers do 'generally' prefer the lower grip tyre to add to the challenge, which will in turn make the driving experience no fun for some other drivers.

I know the league probably wouldn't want this, but maybe you could consider a tyre grade less for Divisions 1 and 2 over the existing scale?

I even like the idea of the person picking either the new car/track combo, or new car selection, has the tyre choice too

More fuel to the fire?

 

[Apmaddock]

Both of those ideas have been suggested before and were uniformly rejected. Personally, I'm still against them.

 

[DrKronin]

Ahh fellow Oregonians...I'm in Salem here!

Nice! I'm in Eugene.

On a completely different note: This is page 500. Wow.

 

[Apmaddock]

500th Page!


In other news, the window to make a complaint is closed.

A few complaints were made and are being looked into, but nobody has complained about our division winners.

So, congrats to:
ANFD in Division 5. He takes Prize A with a score of 98 points.
hillracing in Division 2. 96 points nets him Prize B.
WiiFreak, you get Prize C with your Division 1 score of 89 points.


Well done, guys! Well done. You can begin making your prize selections, as the results regarding those will not be affected. You see what clean racing can get you?

The stewards will look through the complaints that were made and a complete and final standing should be posted tomorrow evening.

Thanks!

 

[Soren535]

I have a question regarding the 'complaint' procedure, specifically line #2:

"Copy the driver you are filing a complaint against on the PM that is sent to your Chief Steward"

Maybe I had a few too many this long weekend but I'm finding the wording a bit confusing . Is it asking for a copy of the original complaint you send your Chief Steward to also be sent to the accused driver?

 

[zer05ive]

I think Neil has hit the 'nail on the head' here with the whole tyre debate. The more skilled drivers do 'generally' prefer the lower grip tyre to add to the challenge, which will in turn make the driving experience no fun for some other drivers.

I know the league probably wouldn't want this, but maybe you could consider a tyre grade less for Divisions 1 and 2 over the existing scale?

I even like the idea of the person picking either the new car/track combo, or new car selection, has the tyre choice too

More fuel to the fire?

I think it's important for all divisions to have the same scale simply because of our system of promotion and relegation. Imagine if the Division 3 champion for the August season gets promoted to Division 2 for the September season. Not only would he have to content with faster drivers, but he would also be at a disadvantage because he would not be used to the different tire scale. Therefore, he's put at a disadvantage while also facing faster drivers and that's not a good combination.

Personally, I like the adjustment that Ap suggested. It seems to be a good compromise between our current scale and some of the low-grip scales that many others are using. Most importantly it's simple - basically just our current scale but with each tire grade's range getting a 100 PP bump. If we went with this scale, it would actually be two tire grades less over the existing tire scale, not just the one grade that you were asking for.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? I know it would require quite a bit of adjustment by many of us (especially me), but I think it's the next logical progression of our tire scale. 👍

 

[tezgm99]

I have a question regarding the 'complaint' procedure, specifically line #2:

"Copy the driver you are filing a complaint against on the PM that is sent to your Chief Steward"

Maybe I had a few too many this long weekend but I'm finding the wording a bit confusing . Is it asking for a copy of the original complaint you send your Chief Steward to also be sent to the accused driver?

I believe so since it then makes that driver aware of it and they can then go over the race replay of the incident....but I've never filed one so I might not be the best person to answer it :/

 

[BeRandom]

When you file your complaint, make sure that both your Division Steward and the driver involved in the incident are both in the Recipient Username(s) field.

 

[JLBowler]

I could get on board with Ap's scale because it is really two different scales, one for production cars and one for race cars. I would like to see the tuner cars, which really are track cars, included with the race cars. These cars have so many upgrades that they would be taken to the track with slicks on them. I'm referring to the stuff made by Amuse, Spoon, Gran Turismo, HKS, and the like.

 

[RIP_Welsh_Don]

If we went with this scale, it would actually be two tire grades less over the existing tire scale, not just the one grade that you were asking for.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? I know it would require quite a bit of adjustment by many of us (especially me), but I think it's the next logical progression of our tire scale. 👍

My suggestion was a compromise, not what 'I' would want. I personally would like to see at 'least' a 2 tyre grade reduction, but I'm sure this won't suit a lot of drivers, we'll see.

I really don't see a problem with a promotion putting someone in with a faster group on 1 tyre grade less and it would only be from div 3 to 2 in my example that this would happen.

Maybe some sort of poll is needed 💡

 

[zer05ive]

I could get on board with Ap's scale because it is really two different scales, one for production cars and one for race cars. I would like to see the tuner cars, which really are track cars, included with the race cars. These cars have so many upgrades that they would be taken to the track with slicks on them. I'm referring to the stuff made by Amuse, Spoon, Gran Turismo, HKS, and the like.

Yes, it actually is two scales. It's interesting how that fact would bring less grip to most of the cars we drive, but bring more grip to others. For example, we ran the Nissan Silvia SPEC-R Aero (S15) RM '02 that we raced for five straight weeks in April and May using Sports Soft tires. With this new scale, we'd be racing on it using Racing Hards.

My suggestion was a compromise, not what 'I' would want. I personally would like to see at 'least' a 2 tyre grade reduction, but I'm sure this won't suit a lot of drivers, we'll see.

I really don't see a problem with a promotion putting someone in with a faster group on 1 tyre grade less and it would only be from div 3 to 2 in my example that this would happen.

If one tire grade less between divisions is not viewed as a problem, we could also keep D3, D4, and D5 on the current scale, put D2 on one grade less, and put D1 on two grades less (Ap's scale). I'm not really in favor of that, but just "throwing it out there" to see how everyone feels about it.

Another disadvantage of having divisions on different tire scales is that it wouldn't allow us to use kcheeb's data masterpiece that compares everyone's lap times between divisions. I think this data is immeasurably important in many aspects of our league, especially considering that we use it to help determine promotion and relegation.

Yet another disadvantage would be during Wednesday night's practice races. We'd need to separate drivers into different rooms based on which tire scale they were using. However, that would be less of a problem if D1 and D2 were on the same tire scale (one practice room) and D3, D4, and D5 were on another tire scale (another practice room). In other words, we'd need two practice rooms to accommodate everyone, but that's something that we've done in the past anyways.

 

[Handlebar]

Interestingly (to me, anyway) is that I live in Oregon, and my office is in Reston. If I'm not mistaken, that's pretty close to you. What part of Oregon are you from?

I grew up in the SW Portland / Beaverton area. My family is all over the state, parents from Bend and near Crescent, and along the Valley. I went to OSU.

Now I live in Herndon. Reston Town Center is about 4 miles away.

 

[Handlebar]

Yet another disadvantage would be during Wednesday night's practice races. We'd need to separate drivers into different rooms based on which tire scale they were using. However, that would be less of a problem if D1 and D2 were on the same tire scale (one practice room) and D3, D4, and D5 were on another tire scale (another practice room). In other words, we'd need two practice rooms to accommodate everyone, but that's something that we've done in the past anyways.

To play devil's advocate here: why does this "have to" be in different lounges? Since it is a practice, I know I would practice with my equipment, and you with yours. Even if I had a practice round with Tiger Woods, making him play with "my clubs to keep it even" is not going to change the purpose... To practice with my equipment. Nor would it change the outcome much, I suspect.

 

[zer05ive]

To play devil's advocate here: why does this "have to" be in different lounges? Since it is a practice, I know I would practice with my equipment, and you with yours. Even if I had a practice round with Tiger Woods, making him play with "my clubs to keep it even" is not going to change the purpose... To practice with my equipment. Nor would it change the outcome much, I suspect.

I doesn't "have to" be in different lounges, but it certainly makes sense IMO. If we split drivers into two rooms anyways, why not spend a few extra seconds to organize it so that drivers in each room are practicing against similarly-skilled drivers who are using the same tire compounds? Either way, it don't think it's a big deal.

The bigger problem from my perspective would be having two separate tires scales being used on Sunday nights. It seems clear that many of the higher-division drivers support shifting to a less grippy tire and more "realistic" tire scale, but I'd like know how every one else feels about it. My strong preference would be to have the entire league on the same tire scale, but I'd like to hear more feedback from everyone.

 

[Handlebar]

The bigger problem from my perspective would be having two separate tires scales being used on Sunday nights. It seems clear that many of the higher-division drivers support shifting to a less grippy tire and more "realistic" tire scale, but I'd like know how every one else feels about it. My strong preference would be to have the entire league on the same tire scale, but I'd like to hear more feedback from everyone.

For simplicity's sake, I would vote for one tire compound, all divisions.

I would hope that whomever is selecting car/track combos considers the variance of how a car is handled across all divisions. It is their choice, and the winner certainly has the right to choose whatever pleases them, But I am hopeful of fewer spinning FR heavyweights on twisty tracks and not much grip. I think those combos have most threatened my Sony Bravia with impact from objects at hand... But that is just me... ;-)

 

[dabneyd]

I would prefer to have everyone on the same tires. I like to see the disparity between the divisions when it comes to lap times and total race times. I am for adjusting the formula for tires though. I think there's a compromise we can make that will give the D1 drivers more "realism" they want and keeping fun for everyone else.

 

[Apmaddock]

I definitely vote for one compound across all divisions.

A PSA for those possibly considering their car/track selections for the week: Don't forget that the OCD is available. You don't have to use it, but know that it's only an option every other week and this is one of them.

 

[Apmaddock]

I just did some driving in cars with the tire compounds in my suggestion. Overall, the cars handle very well. Those worried about things turning into a demolition derby through the turns need not worry. The harder tire compounds necessitate lower speeds through the corners, so things actually seem more in control, overall. The only thing you need to get used to is slowing down, which is a good skill to learn. The other tricky part is the high-speed sweepers, where some cars like to get a bit out of sorts.

Naturally, different cars respond in different ways, but I really think this would be a good change, overall.

 

[Skills]

All vehicles should have the same specifications. Isn't that why it's called spec racing? Same tires for all please.

 

[kk20]

This looks really interesting. Well kept too..

 

[IceWarden]

I vote same tires for all.

Now I have only just joined this series but if you guys have been using this tire formula with success for all these months then why change it? The purists will get over it and still run their comfort hard rooms during the week. The people who like to race no matter what (like me) will still be happy as long as the racers are good people and fun to hang with. The novices seeking to get better will be happy because the tires are still challenging but not so much so that the fun is gone.

 

[kcheeb]

This looks really interesting. Well kept too..

Thanks for that

 

[Apmaddock]

Now I have only just joined this series but if you guys have been using this tire formula with success for all these months then why change it? The purists will get over it and still run their comfort hard rooms during the week. The people who like to race no matter what (like me) will still be happy as long as the racers are good people and fun to hang with. The novices seeking to get better will be happy because the tires are still challenging but not so much so that the fun is gone.

You're assuming several things.

First, that S.N.A.I.L. has been racing for three months. (Actually, about 9)

Second, that the same tire formula has been used the whole time. (It hasn't, it's been hardened once before and it was widely thought that was just one step toward a permanent level)

Third, that all S.N.A.I.L. members also race in other rooms during the week to get their kicks with different tires, cars, etc. (Not all of us do. I don't.)

Fourth, that harder tires translates to less fun. (Many people of varying skill levels would disagree with that.)



Also POST 10000+!!!
Well spoken, S.N.A.I.L.s

 

[dabneyd]

I vote same tires for all.

Now I have only just joined this series but if you guys have been using this tire formula with success for all these months then why change it? The purists will get over it and still run their comfort hard rooms during the week. The people who like to race no matter what (like me) will still be happy as long as the racers are good people and fun to hang with. The novices seeking to get better will be happy because the tires are still challenging but not so much so that the fun is gone.

It has been changed pretty recently. The last time we ran the S2000 it was on SS tires.

 

[Apmaddock]

Good God, kcheeb. You really do your homework, don't you?

 

[Apmaddock]

It has been changed pretty recently. The last time we ran the S2000 it was on SS tires.

…and it was a pain in the tuckus then, too.


(Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a double post)

 

[zer05ive]

Thanks for that

too funny! he was waiting to pounce for two hours!

 

[IceWarden]

I never said three months.

I said I was new to this league so I have no idea what you guys used to run. But I assume everytime you change its because some people are unhappy, some are happy and some are indifferent.

I am very surprised to hear that you only race in Snail rooms but that's just a personal note. It's most likely due to the fact that all your racing buddies are in the series.

I would argue the Majority of racers on the net prefer softer tires. I don't know about the Snail population but I doubt the majority of Snail racers want the tires to go harder.

 

[kcheeb]

too funny! he was waiting to pounce for two hours!

Not sure what made me look, maybe the randomness of it

He's got a big feather in his GTPlanet cap now, ooohhhh, aaahhhh.