◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Join now to win a Digit Racing EDGE Masterclass enrollment!!Open 

  • Thread starter zer05ive
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zer05ive
Spec Racing
Yes, it's true that both leagues are both 'Spec Racing' leagues. Could this be an idea that S.N.A.I.L. stole from Turtle? While S.N.A.I.L. did not originally start as a Spec Racing league, we converted to this this type of racing on January 23, 2012. In fact S.N.A.I.L. was the first league on GTPlanet to require that the 'Tuning-Prohibited' setting be used in all of it races. Turtle Racing League wasn't even created until five months later.

Reverse Grid Races
Both of our leagues feature reverse grid races that are run immediately after a "Fastest First" races on the same car and track. The only thing I can tell you is that those reverse grid races have been a part of S.N.A.I.L. since the very beginning of our league. Considering that the S.N.A.I.L. thread was started more than six months before Turtle Racing League, it's impossible that this idea was taken from Turtle.
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While S.N.A.I.L might have been the first to require that all races use the "Tuning Prohibited" setting, it most certainly was not the first spec racing club on GT Planet for drivers who liked to drive without tuning. I ran a club on here from March 6th 2011 called Saturday Stock Car Series (SSCS) which used 1 car from the Recommended Garage each night. I came up with the basic idea in 2009, & ran it on another GT forum from 2010 onwards in GT5 Prologue before bringing it to GT Planet on GT5.

Also, the SSCS format in GT5 was qually, race 1 (fastest first), then a reverse grid race! To be honest, when I first saw the S.N.A.I.L thread pop up I thought they'd copied some of my ideas. However, I wasn't in the least bit offended by it. I thought; maybe they had copied mine, or maybe it's just a case of 'great minds think alike'. Either way, i never mentioned it, & it's most certainly nothing to fall out about.

I do hope the situation between S.N.A.I.L & Turtle Racing can be sorted out amicably, as the main reason we're all here is to have fun racing! :D
 
VBR
While S.N.A.I.L might have been the first to require that all races use the "Tuning Prohibited" setting, it most certainly was not the first spec racing club on GT Planet for drivers who liked to drive without tuning. I ran a club on here from March 6th 2011 called Saturday Stock Car Series (SSCS) which used 1 car from the Recommended Garage each night. I came up with the basic idea in 2009, & ran it on another GT forum from 2010 onwards in GT5 Prologue before bringing it to GT Planet on GT5.

Also, the SSCS format in GT5 was qually, race 1 (fastest first), then a reverse grid race! To be honest, when I first saw the S.N.A.I.L thread pop up I thought they'd copied some of my ideas. However, I wasn't in the least bit offended by it. I thought; maybe they had copied mine, or maybe it's just a case of 'great minds think alike'. Either way, i never mentioned it, & it's most certainly nothing to fall out about.

I do hope the situation between S.N.A.I.L & Turtle Racing can be sorted out amicably, as the main reason we're all here is to have fun racing! :D
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this is less a SNAIL vs TURTLE thing and more about Psycho and his patsy, ph1ster. Damn, ph1sher. Now, obviously, spec car racing is far beyond an original concept. I mean, PD made a tune prohibited setting before any of these leagues started, and spec racing is an old concept in motorsports regardless. Its not that he took one idea from SNAIL, he took the WHOLE thing, quite literally verbatim. After zer0 called Psycho out of it, he began rewriting things. But no lie, from the mispellings to the language, he straight copy and pasted everything from SNAIL to his league. While an idea or two is not original, the tire restrictions, the penalty system we use, the points system, all of these were unique to SNAIL, among other things. And has been said, as annoying as that was, we had moved on and let it go. Its not until ph1sher attacked zer0 and the overall snail community because of some misinformation that Psycho apparently whispered into his ear that things once again came to a head.
Now, all of this I wouldn't have had to explain, if you had read a little bit more. But its ok, this is a fast moving thread, and people are far to important, buzy and impatient to be bothered doing that kind of research.
 
VBR
While S.N.A.I.L might have been the first to require that all races use the "Tuning Prohibited" setting, it most certainly was not the first spec racing club on GT Planet for drivers who liked to drive without tuning. I ran a club on here from March 6th 2011 called Saturday Stock Car Series (SSCS) which used 1 car from the Recommended Garage each night. I came up with the basic idea in 2009, & ran it on another GT forum from 2010 onwards in GT5 Prologue before bringing it to GT Planet on GT5.

Also, the SSCS format in GT5 was qually, race 1 (fastest first), then a reverse grid race! To be honest, when I first saw the S.N.A.I.L thread pop up I thought they'd copied some of my ideas. However, I wasn't in the least bit offended by it. I thought; maybe they had copied mine, or maybe it's just a case of 'great minds think alike'. Either way, i never mentioned it, & it's most certainly nothing to fall out about.

I do hope the situation between S.N.A.I.L & Turtle Racing can be sorted out amicably, as the main reason we're all here is to have fun racing! :D
Click to expand...

Hi VBR, thanks for dropping by! I chose my words very carefully in that Open Letter and I specifically made it a point to not claim to be the first 'Spec Racing' league as I knew that Concours Club did it well before S.N.A.I.L. did. However, we were the first league to mandate 'Tuning-Prohibited' in all of our races, but that's not even the important part. The main point I was making was that there was no way that we copied that from Turtle. In fact, all the points I was making was simply to disprove claim that S.N.A.I.L. had copied Turtle.

As for SSCS, that was well before I was even on GTPlanet. Props to you on that as it looks to have been a great series. However, again, I chose my words very carefully in that Open Letter. Nowhere did I claim to be the first to to do that or have exclusive rights to it etc. The point of the Open Letter was to point out the similarities between S.N.A.I.L. and Turtle and let the readers decide which league was copying which. Of course, that wouldn't have been necessary had the league doing all the copying hadn't started telling people that they were the originators of those ideas and dismissing all the work that went into organizing our league.

Rallywagon
this is less a SNAIL vs TURTLE thing and more about Psycho and his patsy, ph1ster. Damn, ph1sher. Now, obviously, spec car racing is far beyond an original concept. I mean, PD made a tune prohibited setting before any of these leagues started, and spec racing is an old concept in motorsports regardless. Its not that he took one idea from SNAIL, he took the WHOLE thing, quite literally verbatim. After zer0 called Psycho out of it, he began rewriting things. But no lie, from the mispellings to the language, he straight copy and pasted everything from SNAIL to his league. While an idea or two is not original, the tire restrictions, the penalty system we use, the points system, all of these were unique to SNAIL, among other things. And has been said, as annoying as that was, we had moved on and let it go. Its not until ph1sher attacked zer0 and the overall snail community because of some misinformation that Psycho apparently whispered into his ear that things once again came to a head.
Now, all of this I wouldn't have had to explain, if you had read a little bit more. But its ok, this is a fast moving thread, and people are far to important, buzy and impatient to be bothered doing that kind of research.
Click to expand...

Or if you need a better explanation, this ^
 
Rallywagon
this is less a SNAIL vs TURTLE thing and more about Psycho and his patsy, ph1ster. Damn, ph1sher. Now, obviously, spec car racing is far beyond an original concept. I mean, PD made a tune prohibited setting before any of these leagues started, and spec racing is an old concept in motorsports regardless. Its not that he took one idea from SNAIL, he took the WHOLE thing, quite literally verbatim. After zer0 called Psycho out of it, he began rewriting things. But no lie, from the mispellings to the language, he straight copy and pasted everything from SNAIL to his league. While an idea or two is not original, the tire restrictions, the penalty system we use, the points system, all of these were unique to SNAIL, among other things. And has been said, as annoying as that was, we had moved on and let it go. Its not until ph1sher attacked zer0 and the overall snail community because of some misinformation that Psycho apparently whispered into his ear that things once again came to a head.
Now, all of this I wouldn't have had to explain, if you had read a little bit more. But its ok, this is a fast moving thread, and people are far to important, buzy and impatient to be bothered doing that kind of research.
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While I don't consider myself "important" or "impatient" as you so kindly inferred, I am sufficiently "busy" with other things to the point that; religiously reading every single post in this EPIC thread is not my number one priority in life! That said, I did read much of what has been posted. As a victim of plagiarism in the past, I well know what it feels like to be victimized (the GRG was plagiarised in 2011). However, as soon as it had been done I went on the offensive & swiftly had the offending website shut down! This moved them to remove the plagiarised material.

Now, as an outside observer of both SNAIL & TRL, I was left with the impression that there was some level of cooperation between the two leagues. For instance, if I remember correctly there was a SNAIL banner in TRL's posts for sometime. Also, the fact that the plagiarism wasn't dealt with when their thread first appeared lead me to this conclusion. I'm sorry if my misunderstanding of this situation has offended you, as no offense was intended.


👍




EDIT: I posted this before you posted your post Zero.
 
Well, don't mind if someone calls you ignorant when you comment on a situation you are obviously in ignorance of. Which once agian you have done.
VBR
Also, the fact that the plagiarism wasn't dealt with when their thread first appeared lead me to this conclusion.
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Here you can see that zer0 indeed tried to do something about it when the thread first appeared, even going so far as to contact the creator of GTP. This was right off of the open letter. Very easy to find. At this point I am now questioning your motives. If you dont want to "offend," don't chime in on a conversation you have no stake in and dont feel like taking to time to properly abreast yourself of the facts. If your to busy to to properly apprise yourself of the situation, then don't butt in.

Anyone else missing apmaddock?
 
Rallywagon
Well, don't mind if someone calls you ignorant when you comment on a situation you are obviously in ignorance of. Which once agian you have done.

Here you can see that zer0 indeed tried to do something about it when the thread first appeared, even going so far as to contact the creator of GTP. This was right off of the open letter. Very easy to find. At this point I am now questioning your motives. If you dont want to "offend," don't chime in on a conversation you have no stake in and dont feel like taking to time to properly abreast yourself of the facts. If your to busy to to properly apprise yourself of the situation, then don't butt in.
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What a friendly guy your are, NOT! :lol: If that's your response to a genuine apology then too bad for you.

However, I will take your advice & "butt out", although for reasons other than you suggested.

Bye...
 
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You know I thought VBR looked familiar, but I was clueless until you mentioned SSCS. Holy crap! I tried so hard to join, but never could because of marching band 👎 It really killed me that I couldn't race with you guys, but I eventually did find a league to run with.

Up until I saw VBR's league I thought every league ran on racing soft, used race cars, and were all about tuning. Y'all can thank him for me being here 👍
 
VBR
What a friendly guy your are, NOT! :lol: If that's your response to a genuine apology then too bad for you.

However, I will take your advice & "butt out", although for reasons other than you suggested.

Bye...
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Oh I'm friendly, enough. It just irks me when someone jumps in and give their uninformed two cents. I do have to admit I stand corrected, there was only a hint of the plagarism thing in that post, and not in the context I was getting at, so I did some digging, and all of the plagarism talk was in a private group with the stewards and other behind the scenes members.
That being said, I did find this tidbit while digging through all that info. Seems that the guy that was too busy with snail because of real world issues was really just to busy being a thief, as a day after that post, Turtle showed up.
 
Garagefather
Since you had a valid complaint and I admitted my error and did not say anything negative about you or the penalty, what is the problem?
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You said you being 2 weeks on probation by a race incident with DrGreen. Dont talk about the complaint and show my name for nothing.
 
Holy crap Green. Who cares? He said he was at fault. Are you in the witness protection program and can't have your name mentioned in print?

It's no different than people talking about a race and saying they were sorry for bumping you last night. If you are disagreeing that he was at fault then by all means take it to a PM. The rule is in place so that race complaints and subsequent arguments do not spill over into the forum.

Seeing as how you two are not arguing what happened, I'm not sure what your problem is?

On a personal note I still do not agree with being docked points for mentioning a bad experience on track without mentioning names. That's basically censorship. I should be able to talk about a positive OR negative experience within the league as long as names are not mentioned. It's called "talking about your day at work" and it is therapeutic.
 
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JoeW
Holy crap Green. Who cares? He said he was at fault. Are you in the witness protection program and can't have your name mentioned in print?

It's no different than people talking about a race and saying they were sorry for bumping you last night. If you are disagreeing that he was at fault then by all means take it to a PM. The rule is in place so that race complaints and subsequent arguments do not spill over into the forum.

Seeing as how you two are not arguing what happened, I'm not sure what your problem is?

On a personal note I still do not agree with being docked points for mentioning a bad experience on track without mentioning names. That's basically censorship. I should be able to talk about a positive OR negative experience within the league as long as names are not mentioned. It's called "talking about your day at work" and it is therapeutic.
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Thanks for the support Joe. I am at a loss on this myself. I have to think that there is a language barrier thing going on. I think he thinks I am being critical of him. I will be sure to never mention his name again.

Also...

After the way VBR was treated, is there any doubt about what I said here?
Garagefather
Also, debates within SNAIL tend to escalate into a more hostile mode similar to COD forums.
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I can't see how anything you have said rises to the level of a penalty when people are treated like that in this very toxic thread.

That is at least one part TRL didn't copy from SNAIL. I am just surprised how quickly my point was validated. It was even faster than I expected.

Now back to obscurity
Garagefather
paying scant attention.
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Life is so much happier that way.
 
Garagefather, you and I have discussed via PM how "toxic" this thread and it's contributors can be at times, and how easily things get blown out of proportion.

Is Turtle really different in that aspect? I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious.
 
VBR
I did read much of what has been posted. As a victim of plagiarism in the past, I well know what it feels like to be victimized (the GRG was plagiarised in 2011). However, as soon as it had been done I went on the offensive & swiftly had the offending website shut down! This moved them to remove the plagiarised material.
Click to expand...

So then you know firsthand how if feels to be plagiarized. Sucks, doesn't it?

VBR
Now, as an outside observer of both SNAIL & TRL, I was left with the impression that there was some level of cooperation between the two leagues. For instance, if I remember correctly there was a SNAIL banner in TRL's posts for sometime. Also, the fact that the plagiarism wasn't dealt with when their thread first appeared lead me to this conclusion. I'm sorry if my misunderstanding of this situation has offended you, as no offense was intended.
Click to expand...

The fact that an outside observer such as your self would think that S.N.A.I.L. and Turtle were associated speaks volumes as to how similar our threads were back then. But no, there has never been a S.N.A.I.L. banner in any Turtle thread. If there had been a banner or even a mention of S.N.A.I.L. to give proper credit, this whole thing would be a non-issue.

As for it not being dealt with at the time, that's not entirely true. Just because we didn't go onto their thread and call them out doesn't mean nothing was done. I made a couple of posts about it, but on the general Clubs & Leagues thread and on our own. I also had the definition of the word plagiarize in my signature, and linked it to the Turtle thread. Like this:

Merriam-Webster's definition of plagiarize:
: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source

But more important than any of this, was that a mutual member of both leagues called Psycho out (via PM) on the extensive copy and pasting. However, Psycho carried on anyways..
 
JoeW
Holy crap Green. Who cares? He said he was at fault. Are you in the witness protection program and can't have your name mentioned in print?

It's no different than people talking about a race and saying they were sorry for bumping you last night. If you are disagreeing that he was at fault then by all means take it to a PM. The rule is in place so that race complaints and subsequent arguments do not spill over into the forum.

Seeing as how you two are not arguing what happened, I'm not sure what your problem is?

On a personal note I still do not agree with being docked points for mentioning a bad experience on track without mentioning names. That's basically censorship. I should be able to talk about a positive OR negative experience within the league as long as names are not mentioned. It's called "talking about your day at work" and it is therapeutic.
Click to expand...

Its not about my name mentioned but my name mentioned to a complaint. Its personal to who did the complaint and I will never doing that anymore like I did in 2012 on the tread. Joe who cares? Me ok and respect my opinion, I tried to respect some aspect of the league and now I following the rules and its for everybody and ME TOO. By the way that are included in the rules of the snail league.
 
JoeW
On a personal note I still do not agree with being docked points for mentioning a bad experience on track without mentioning names. That's basically censorship. I should be able to talk about a positive OR negative experience within the league as long as names are not mentioned. It's called "talking about your day at work" and it is therapeutic.
Click to expand...

Anyone is free to talk about any experience they want to. They're only docked points if the complain on the thread without making an official complaint to the stewards. If complaining on the thread is therapeutic, then complaining to a steward and having the driver you're complaining docked points would be even more therapeutic, no? Both options take the same amount of time, but only one of them actually helps clean the racing in the league.

You're free to disagree with this if you want to and of course free to complain publicly if you want to. However, that's frowned upon in basically every thrad here on GTPLanet so it's not like we're some oppressive regime or anything. Also, shouldn't we be allowed to award our prizes in the manner we see most fit? Our contest rewards those who race a lot, race cleanly, and don't stir things up on the thread. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Speaking of stirring things up..

qwietstorm
Garagefather, you and I have discussed via PM how "toxic" this thread and it's contributors can be at times, and how easily things get blown out of proportion.

Is Turtle really different in that aspect? I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious.
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It's great that you two have discussed things like this via PM in the past. If you don't mind, please discuss qwietstorm's curiosity via PM as well. The topic of Turtle on this thread right now is to address one issue and one issue only, and it's dragging on a bit too long now. There isn't a need to discuss other comparisons between the two leagues, unless of course there are ulterior motives in doing so.
 
qwietstorm
Garagefather, you and I have discussed via PM how "toxic" this thread and it's contributors can be at times, and how easily things get blown out of proportion.

Is Turtle really different in that aspect? I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious.
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In that regard it is completely different. That could change based on who gets involved in the future, but currently it is much friendlier and less confrontational.

It seems more like past experiences I have had with other leagues. SNAIL is in a class all by itself.

That doesn't mean SNAIL doesn't have its good points.

After all, I show up every Sunday even though there are plenty of other choices out there. The competition is so good and I like the format of SNAIL.

Format=great, Competition=great, Thread=toxic. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

EDIT: Sorry Zer05ive, didn't see your post until after I replied.
 
This thread isn't that bad other than how hard you guys beat dead horses. Really didn't expect to still see people giving a calm about turtles.

Nice choice of combo socal
 
Now all of a sudden it's gone on far too long...ok.

If you'd like to assume there are ulterior motives then you are free to do so. I simply asked a question, as many others have in the past and I'm sure many others will in the future. I thought that's how this was supposed to work.

For your sake we will continue our conversation over PM to give you ample time to get your thong back in the correct position.
 

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