◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Join now to win a Digit Racing EDGE Masterclass enrollment!!Open

[DrKronin]

Have it. Thank you DrK and wolf.

My DFPro appears to be stuck in 200 degree rotation

Not a problem. I'm just grinding away at the "Air of Experience" trophy. It's that last remotely difficult trophy I have left, so I thought I'd try to finish it before GT6

 

[JLBowler]

Have it. Thank you DrK and wolf.

My DFPro appears to be stuck in 200 degree rotation

There are three buttons you have to push at the same time. I don't recall exactly what they are but I'm sure a search would find it.

Select + R1 + R3

 

[Dragonwhisky]

I just don't see why we should punish new drivers. If someone has a good night then good for them. Reward them with one of the prizes. If they really are placed incorrectly then they will be promoted the next season. I would just hate to see changes made that would directly effect the standings.

While I can see how such a thing could be considered as punishment, sort of, I disagree that it be thought of as such. Think of it more as protection, for established drivers, to avoid getting railroaded for an entire month, then seeing the railroader scoot on up divisions in 3-4 months. While it's not often this has happened, it has happened. I can honestly say it's not the best feeling in the world getting schooled by someone that just got promoted. Makes at least this one of some of us wonder if we belong in the division we've been racing in for months.

On another hand there is the confidence gained after you've won your division championship and this can give a boost to your driving in some cases after being promoted.

 

[jobyone]

Probation/trial period Idea:

1 - all racers start with 2 week probation. Run clean for two weeks and you are off probation.

2 - get a level 1 or 2 penalty and you add another week to your probation/trial period

3 - Get a level 3 or above penalty your probation/trial period doubles to 4 weeks.

I would also say that a person who is on probation/trial period scores 0 points. Now one advantage I see is that if someone joins the league, races clean but is clearly in the wrong division during probation they can be moved to a more appropriate division without it effecting their championship since they are scoring no points. I also think it might help people start with calmer nerves. They know they can not "Win" so they can focus on getting to know the other racers and racing clean.

As to scoring the races I would say that if they come first they get 0 pts and do not get placed in the standings. The person who comes second would get first. Why do this? Well in my opinion we want people to first and foremost race clean so they do not ruin the night of established SNAILs. This is what we hold to as the core advantage of the league. The second thing we want is for people to have fun. The third is great racing. The third will only come if the 1st is happening. If winning is more important than 1 or 2 then this might not be the league for you.

As to the argument of why stop new people from having a chance to win. Well I imagine in most forms of racing there are licenses that must be gained and leagues where people learn race craft prior to being able to race in the big league. We do not have that. A novice can be thrown in with a bunch of veterans here and some form of trial period may help avoid some of the issues (however few there may actually be) that we sometimes run in to.

Just my ¢2

 

[fzappa]

I vote 2, but I also would like to add that we should think about not allowing new members to win a prize until their second month. I think this would allow new drivers to more accurately be placed amongst their equals and give them time to ensure they mesh with the league.

I though about saying this but didn't want to deal with the crying I thought might ensue. Since you said it, I wholeheartedly agree with this. Call it a new driver evaluation period and make sure they are in the right spot.

I'm in favor of this too. In a way, it reminds me of our ol' Rookie Rule.

I vote for 2 also.

I agree with both dab and bowler.

The 'Rookie Rule'! Back when we had 3 divisions. I was in D1 way back then

 

[Wolfsatz]

Probation/trial period Idea:

1 - all racers start with 2 week probation. Run clean for two weeks and you are off probation.

2 - get a level 1 or 2 penalty and you add another week to your probation/trial period

3 - Get a level 3 or above penalty your probation/trial period doubles to 4 weeks.

Just my ¢2

Plus 1! 👍


Practice Room
1472 6399 8966 5888 7243

 

[kcheeb]

So with no further beating around the bush, how do we deal with the sandbaggers?

I don't know if anyone sandbagged their time trials or not.

I'm a terrible time trialer and a better racer, as is DrGreenThumb and a few others that I'm aware of. That could certainly explain some of the anomalies.

But, calling people that are currently doing well, sandbaggers, you risk alienating them.

As I've said, we've dealt with the obvious cases and to my knowledge they were not sandbaggers. When approached about being moved up, they were all for it as they themselves recognized that they were not in the right division.

We've even had it go the other way, where people did well in a division, were promoted and promptly fell flat. Even though the times they ran in their prior division were as good as the the times in the current division.

Some people do better in certain types of cars and worse in others. Not to mention tracks. For me, put me in a race car and I'll be able to compete with almost anyone here, put me in a sloppy street car and my comparative performance suffers. Similarly, put me on a track I've not figured out, done deal.

With respect to auto-promoting someone, I don't know if you can say, when a and b happen c must be done. Except of course for the obvious cases. And I don't really think this month we had a clear cut obvious case.

Then add into the mix the numbers of drivers in each division, and and a need to have drivers on the grid for each of the divisions ...

To my thinking, what's really at stake here? Someone wins, someone picks cars and tracks and we race them.

 

[nmcp1]

First off I vote 2 for the new points system.

The drivers that tend to stick around seem to have a few things in common (remember I'm talking generalities here):

1. They do reasonably well in their first few weeks.
2. They have some experience racing with real live people in GT5 (not just AI or time trials)
3. They find a group that they have something in common with (personality, interests etc.) and want to continue.

I think we've set up a good simple system for getting new drivers placed and we're flexible enough to make changes as they are needed. No system is going to be foolproof when it comes to figuring out where new drivers should be placed.

I think this sums up fairly well the kind of drivers we have in SNAIL. I know I fall into all three categories above.

...most people aren't prepared for S.N.A.I.L. Sunday night right off the get go.

Boy you can say that again! Time Trials are one thing but when you're surrounded by a group of your piers the pressure is on. My first night in SNAIL I basically dive bombed JLBowler off the track. I received my first (and so far only) penalty that night and I remember fuming when I got the race complaint. I watched the replay of the incident as well as some of the other races that night and realized how much of a tool I was. I never thanked him for reporting me but that one penalty made me re-think my on-track manners. Thanks JLBowler for the wake up. 👍

I know that it was not until my 11th or 12th lap when I started finding ways to gain time and I knocked off about a half a second off my time. I probably would have been placed in a lower division if I did not run all those laps.

I agree completely with zegrated. Maybe the thing to do is have new members run an actual 15 lap race and then send in their replays for review. I can see where this would delay placement but it would give the reviewer a better sense of the new members skill level over a series of laps instead of that one 'perfect' hot lap.

OR

Maybe instead of hot lapping alone we can have the new member run a race with the AI and see how he/she follows OLR Rules in a pack. Granted the AI in GT5 leave a bunch to be desired but it at least will give some sense of the new drivers on track awareness and maturity.

 

[Nicktune]

Would this help division placement? Instead of 1 time trial you have 2 of them on very different track (like a rally with only 2 stage)you combine the time of both time trial for division placement. Track1+track2=Total time.

 

[jobyone]

For those of you who will be in need of your SNAIL fix since there is no race Sunday Might I suggest it is a perfect time to try out Performance Cap Racing

Monday Race Night in D3 Lounge

09/02/13 at 10:00 PM EST/ 7:00 pm PST

This event will run with a combined PP cap of:
1590 (SH)
All cars PP must be between 358 and 437

Qualifying and the first race will take place at

Monaco​

If you would like to participate in the next event please post in this thread that you would like to take part. I will add your name to the list.

To help you with your car lineup there is an all premium lineup that can be found in the sign up sheet. Or you can use that sheet to create your own perfect lineup.

 

[Schmiggz]

I don't know about anyone else but for me personally, I am terrible at time trials and racing by myself but I do much better when racing against others. Maybe it's because of the competition or having to keep up with the field. but I've noticed that my best time during a race is, in some cases, 3-5 seconds faster than in qualifying. I don't belong in a higher division in my opinion. Maybe this could be the case for others?

Oh my goodness... same here. It's kinda mathematically proven that i have the fortune to be one of the 4/5 faster racers on D3 but my qualifying rounds are beyond horrendous getting way often 8ths to 10ths positions on the starting grid.... go figure!

My vote goes to #2

 

[Chiochan]

This thread is moving way to fast so I will keep this post small.

I have always been a proponent for a mid month promotion, which is applied when a racer wins their first and second week. This should be done with no penalties.

So if someone new to the league wins the first 2 weeks cleanly, they will moved up to the next division.
I think it is obvious to people racing against them if they belong in a higher division, maybe a poll from your peers(division) can also be taken into consideration.
We have done this type of mid month promotion before and I think we should continue to do this to help even the divisions. It is simple and I like that.

 

[bandit0627]

This thread is moving way to fast so I will keep this post small.

I have always been a proponent for a mid month promotion, which is applied when a racer wins their first and second week. This should be done with no penalties.

So if someone new to the league wins the first 2 weeks cleanly, they will moved up to the next division.
I think it is obvious to people racing against them if they belong in a higher division, maybe a poll from your peers(division) can also be taken into consideration.
We have done this type of mid month promotion before and I think we should continue to do this to help even the divisions. It is simple and I like that.

Are you trying to get rid of me in D4?

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Had to leave practice. This wheel is plain annoying me with 180 deg of rotation. If I can't fix it I'm going out tomorrow and getting a dfgt.

 

[Chiochan]

Are you trying to get rid of me in D4?

No of course not, I love racing with you bandito. But you did say a few weeks ago that all of you competition got promoted to D3 and you got stuck with us D4 relics.

 

[bandit0627]

No of course not, I love racing with you bandito. But you did say a few weeks ago that all of you competition got promoted to D3 and you got stuck with us D4 relics.

Yes but I did say and I quote "but I don't know what competition is coming up from D5." Tex-36 was a perfect example of that! But I never really had a big competition with you! Then all of a sudden you just start haulin' and OH MY GOSH have you proven to be a very tough opponent! 👍

 

[Nicktune]

Had to leave practice. This wheel is plain annoying me with 180 deg of rotation. If I can't fix it I'm going out tomorrow and getting a dfgt.

The DFGT is 100$ on amazon and bestbuy/futureshop (free shipping).

 

[soundtiger95]

Would anyone be opposed to having a rookie division? We can put everyone who has joined in the last month or two as well as new people who join in that division to start (or however many people we need to make a good field.) After a month (one season) we average everyones lap times together and place them in divisions 1-5 based on their times. This would give us an idea of how they perform in races against others and doesn't allow people to not try considering there will be other people in the room racing against them and there will also be replays. This could also eliminate time trials completely. We can also keep standings and have a rookie division champion at the end of the season.

In my opinion, this idea is perfect and works best for everyone involved. We eliminate the time trial which is easy to purposely perform poorly on while adding new members to the league and allow them to compete and show their true skill level in front of everyone.

Now this may be a lot of work to add an entirely new division but I think it's worth it in the long run. Anyone else think it would be a good idea?

 

[fastfox400]

Wow. I've been away for too long. As far as the multiplier I vote for #1.

Now onto the issue of Division placement. You should do 3 time trials in offline mode with saved replays to verify lap time. 1 track with 3 different drivetrain cars FF/FR/4WD. Add the 3 together and then divide by 3 for a average laptime. Then use a percentage basis for determining what division for the new driver to be placed in.

For example:
D1 fast runs a average 1:30.000 anyone with in 2.99% is placed in division 1
D2 would be around 3-4.99%
D3 would be 5-6.99
D4 would be 7-8.99
D5 would be 9%+

 

[JLBowler]

Had to leave practice. This wheel is plain annoying me with 180 deg of rotation. If I can't fix it I'm going out tomorrow and getting a dfgt.

Press select, R1 and R3 at the same time. Both green lights on the wheel should come on and you will have 900 degree rotation. I still have one of these wheels and I switched back and forth quite a bit. It's been a while so I may be off on the buttons, but there is a three button combo that will change it. No need to spend the money when you have a g27 coming back to you.

Wow. I've been away for too long. As far as the multiplier I vote for #1.

Now onto the issue of Division placement. You should do 3 time trials in offline mode with saved replays to verify lap time. 1 track with 3 different drivetrain cars FF/FR/4WD. Add the 3 together and then divide by 3 for a average laptime. Then use a percentage basis for determining what division for the new driver to be placed in.

For example:
D1 fast runs a average 1:30.000 anyone with in 2.99% is placed in division 1
D2 would be around 3-4.99%
D3 would be 5-6.99
D4 would be 7-8.99
D5 would be 9%+

That's a very well thought out idea. The only problem I see is that it might not be so good for having balanced divisions. As close as it is between the bottom of D1 down to D4 and some exceptions in D5, it might just put 90% of our league in the same division.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

I couldn't get the dfpro to switch between the two settings using the buttons. Something inside was stuck. Opened it up and forced the nylon gate open. It now works perfectly and can be switched with the buttons on the fly.

I'm very happy with this wheel now and its a worthy back up until I get the new G27. Worth spending the time now to adjust the layout and position of the pedals. Need to find a foam ball for the brake pedal.

 

[fastfox400]

Press select, R1 and R3 at the same time. Both green lights on the wheel should come on and you will have 900 degree rotation. I still have one of these wheels and I switched back and forth quite a bit. It's been a while so I may be off on the buttons, but there is a three button combo that will change it. No need to spend the money when you have a g27 coming back to you.



That's a very well thought out idea. The only problem I see is that it might not be so good for having balanced divisions. As close as it is between the bottom of D1 down to D4 and some exceptions in D5, it might just put 90% of our league in the same division.

Of course. It was just a example. The percentage difference could be changed to a lap second interval. It was just a idea. It was how a group of us were determined for divisions on iracing for non ranked races. It worked out quite well.

 

[OwensRacing]

Vote #2 for multiplier.



I also like the idea of Rookies not eligible for prizes for a set period to ensure they aren't miss placed and basically cherry picking the wins.

 

[Rallywagon]

I like goats idea about winning two weeks and being moved. If it would happen. However, I've noticed that even when someone is stomping everyone else in a division, they aren't being moved. We have a very clear example of this right now in d3. Well, we did. I'm sure he will be moving up for the new season. But XR not only wins most of the races and gets all of the poles, but when he does win, it's by 5 seconds or more. Not sure why he wasnt promoted lsat season really, except we had someone that did the same thing last season too, so maybe he was over looked. Idk. But unlike cheeb, I feel that sandbagging might happen more often then thought. And it is generally into d3 that they go. If you would like, I can spend some time quantifying this. But really, just look at the data from d3 for the past 6 seasons. It's all there.
Btw, xr, not trying to call you out as a sandbagger. But you are way to fast to be in d3 also.

 

[ThePDTX]

Ok, I know I've only been here for about a month? So i'm kinda new here, but if I can speak my opinion on the delicate subject at hand, I think that (like it was referred before) we need to trust people to be honest with their time trials. And although I can see the problem of people "sandbagging" times and then going to the division they were assigned and dominating for a full month, I can also see the problem that was pointed out that if we don't let new racers win anything for 2 weeks or whatever, that it will demoralize them and even maybe turn interested people away. Now I know it's all about having fun and racing with real people, at least for me, but I think that none of us can honestly say that they don't like winning. In this month that I've been here I never finished 1st, but if I did and there was no reward for it (no points given, like it was said a few posts above) it would bum me out. The best solution I can see is that instead of starting to change a lot of things, we keep it simple and use 2 ideas that were mentioned here already (sorry for not giving credit to anyone mentioned, i have poor memory and am to lazy to go look it up) which are, have new people give all lap times at Laguna instead of the best, this way they'll be forced to run the 11-15 laps or whatever, and have them upload the replay.
I'm sorry for the long post but I had to give my opinion.

 

[Handlebar]

You may not have. But I did.

So cheeb, you trying to say you and zer0 are master black magicians? The entire placement system is fully at the mercy of the honesty and integrity of the individuals submitting their results. To be brutally honest, that as many get properly placed as happens might be something more than simple black magic.

I support our resident Master Practitioners of the Dark Arts.

I appreciate the flexibility that we have used in the past, and will keep using. Promotion and relegation do even the field, but it is a function over time, not just a new algorithm or Plug-In solution.

***

Goat's idea of considering an auto-promote (I think as a guideline, not a mandate) for cleanly winning your first two nights is pretty fair. If the divisions are unbalanced with numbers, or participation on those nights was wonky/low, we could hold off, but as a litmus test, it is simple and reasonable to consider. Me likee.

 

[motoraza]

May I ask what time SNAIL races usually occur? I assume that this racing league is US based, which could cause difficulties for myself if I wanted to join in. However, if it doesn't work out to be bad timing for me I would be very interested in participating in the SNAIL racing league!

Thanks.

 

[Handlebar]

Sunday evenings for the main events, 9:30 pm EST start (some at 10:00 pm EST), roughly two hours long.

Page 1 is the go-to spot for info and links. We have spec racing (no tuning) events most evenings, rules may vary.

 

[motoraza]

Sunday evenings for the main events, 9:30 pm EST start (some at 10:00 pm EST), roughly two hours long.

Page 1 is the go-to spot for info and links. We have spec racing (no tuning) events most evenings, rules may vary.

At, that is about 4 in the morning for me (depending on daylight saving etc). Unfortunately I doubt I will ever be able to join in here. Thanks anyway. This looks to be an amazing racing league, keep up the good work, and all the best to everybody involved.

 

[dabneyd]

At, that is about 4 in the morning for me (depending on daylight saving etc). Unfortunately I doubt I will ever be able to join in here. Thanks anyway. This looks to be an amazing racing league, keep up the good work, and all the best to everybody involved.

Someone needs to start S.N.E.I.L. for the Europeans.