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- Thread starter zer05ive
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- 1,324
- Toronto
I won't be racing this weekend guys - Canadian thanksgiving, I'm out of the city.
JLBowler
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- JLBowler
Important Announcement Regarding Room Settings for SNAIL Racing
Effective with the start of the October season, SNAIL Sunday night racing will run with fuel consumption turned off. By extension, Thursday night official practice will also be running with fuel consumption turned off. The possibility of running out of fuel was never something that was desired for our sprint racing format and GTS has given us the ability to disable fuel consumption separate of tire wear.
Just as a reminder that all room settings can be found here. If you are a host or just curious about the room settings, please have a look. Also pay close attention to the damage settings. Visual damage should be off and mechanical damage should be set to light.
I believe the entry time trial settings says to put fuel usage at 1x. If so, will that change? And if so do you need new division times for the time trial?
Also a feature that GTS allows that previous games didn't was allow engine power and car weight adjustments but locking the rest of the tune. Will people who choose cars for combos be able to select custom power and weight options in the future? Its something I'm experimenting with in this week's endurance league. Figured I would bring it up since room settings changes is on the table.
- 4,886
- Cloud 9
- Rednose58
I just checked and looks like you cannot set fuel consumption in time trial mode - unless I don't know where to look.
No plan to move away from stock power/weight settings. It will just complicate things more, including potentially new formulas for suitable tire choices.
We have some open Friday nights and holiday events to do things that can play around with different settings and cars. Feel free to arrange a series or one-off events (talk to @JLBowler to get an open Friday night). Nothing wrong to spice things up from time to time.
JLBowler
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- JLBowler
Good catch on the time trial instructions. I'll look into getting that changed. EDIT: Not necessary to change as it's not in the instructions. Probably because those things may not be adjustable in a time trial in game as Rednose suspects.
No, everyone will not have to rerun a time trial. It's only for initial placement and as long as it gets us close, it's fine.
Rednose answered the rest as I was typing and hit all the points I wanted to hit on variable power.
- 1,660
- Winnipeg
- RacingOtaku86
I might not be able to race either; at least, not the full nights worth.
- 2,289
- Ontario
- MajorBlixem
Although the Havana Club is ready to roll I'm also not sure yet if I will be racing this weekend due to Thanksgiving
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- Herimopp89
JLBowler
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- JLBowler
You're the second person to bring it up and neither one of you has given any reason to make a change other than it might be fun.
SNAIL doesn't usually change for the sake of change. There is usually a reason presented or discovered and then there is discussion about that change either among the BoD or the membership. Once there is a reason to change and discussion about that change then something might be trialed on a practice night.
The short answer is, no, we're not going to try grid start with false start check at tonight's official practice.
The rest of the story is, please present the reasoning for wanting to change from what we do now to false start check. Typically reasons like, "that's how it's done somewhere else," and "it's more fun," are not very good reasons to make changes to SNAIL.
We have given our reasons for not using false start check so any reasons to switch to it will have to present more benefits than not using it. Chief among the reasons for not using it is the way the game handles it and the extra and unnecessary issues that are created by the way the game handles it.
I'm not attempting to chastise anyone or shoot down ideas out of hand but rather seek insight as to why this change is desired and have a discussion about a potential change.
JLBowler
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- JLBowler
That's exactly the reasoning I was expecting. It has been discussed in great detail and the benefit you list has not been determined to outweigh the problems associated with the way the game handles a false start. The auto penalty right at the start creates chaos behind the individual that false started which effectively penalizes everyone behind the guy that is actually being penalized. It all ties in to the reasons we don't use in game penalties and track boundaries.
Edit: If the game were to change the way it handles false starts to a method that doesn't have an adverse effect on drivers other than the one that false starts then a potential switch would probably be much better received.
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in all cases I have seen it allows the penailed car to move out far enough that the drivers should have time to navigate around or the penalized driver enough time to get out of the racing line the negatives really arentry any different than the scatter we get now with a driver over revving at the start and spinning other than with the current system it is immediate vs the proposed system allows the car to move forward just at a slower pace if you are penalized all that driver would have to do is move out of the racing line as drivers shouldn't been attempting to pass before the starting line anyway
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JLBowler
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- JLBowler
So you're saying the game basically simulates someone spinning their tires at the start so we would have the potential of someone spinning their tires as well as the potential of a penalty. That's just making more problems for other drivers to avoid.
The benefit to adding false starts would have to outweigh any complications caused by it, not be a wash or even make it worse.
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The cons would realistically the same not wrose as I stated it allows the car to move where spinning the tires makes u a sitting duck in the middle of the race line vs being able to move out of the way as ur serving a penalty which was driver caused the pro would be a more realistic racing experience which is how the game as advertised (real driving sim) for us it has cut down on front stretch crashes as well as first turn pile ups it's just a thought it really needs to be tested by the racers using it in a race setting versus just talked about you could even use it on a practice night then run an analysis and hold a vote
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- OMG_mang
1989 Geoff Bodine “replica”
JLBowler
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- JLBowler
The cons are worse because now there would be two ways to create a problem on the start.
1. A driver spinning his tires on the start (false start is not going to prevent this from happening) and drivers behind him have to take evasive action.
2. A driver has to serve an automatic slow down penalty and drivers behind him have to take evasive action to avoid.
Of course if everyone took care not to spin their tires and jump the start, it would work but that's not how you put something together especially in a sprint race. You have to account for the worst possible scenario and make that scenario effect the fewest number of innocent drivers.
If the game waited until the next lap to give a drive through penalty or just gave a time penalty at the end of the race then going to false start would probably be a no-brainer but this isn't the case. Going to false start would immediately double the number of possible causes for innocent drivers to have to avoid drivers that are guilty of a mistake.
I have no doubt that it works well in an endurance race when everyone is just trying to save their tires, get off the line, and settle into their race strategy. A sprint race is a different animal. Nobody is interested in just getting off the line, losing multiple spots and then trying to make them up in 12 minutes.
1. A driver spinning his tires on the start (false start is not going to prevent this from happening) and drivers behind him have to take evasive action.
2. A driver has to serve an automatic slow down penalty and drivers behind him have to take evasive action to avoid.
Of course if everyone took care not to spin their tires and jump the start, it would work but that's not how you put something together especially in a sprint race. You have to account for the worst possible scenario and make that scenario effect the fewest number of innocent drivers.
If the game waited until the next lap to give a drive through penalty or just gave a time penalty at the end of the race then going to false start would probably be a no-brainer but this isn't the case. Going to false start would immediately double the number of possible causes for innocent drivers to have to avoid drivers that are guilty of a mistake.
I have no doubt that it works well in an endurance race when everyone is just trying to save their tires, get off the line, and settle into their race strategy. A sprint race is a different animal. Nobody is interested in just getting off the line, losing multiple spots and then trying to make them up in 12 minutes.
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Nice work Tom!
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- OMG_mang
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Being the person who originally brought this up, here is my reasoning.
The current start system is a little mindless, you hold the throttle at whatever you’ve pretedermined is the best rev amount, and you go through your starting routine. The only risk is perhaps pushing the car a little too far, and possibly creating wheel spin.
False start check maintains the starting routine, but adds an element of difficulty and realism. It forces you to manage the break release while you’re holding an optimal rev. It’s easy to accidentally move your throttle foot when releasing the brake, thus adding even more difficulty in maintaining the optimal revs. The false start penalties are simple to avoid, as cars who release early roll forward slowly, have a huge penalty sign over there head, and are forced to go straight. They are essentially on auto drive, so drivers behind them can easily avoid them.
Avoiding a driver serving a false start penalty is easier than avoiding a driver who has wheel spin and is maybe tail whipping.
I would like to add the false start check because these are sprint races, and the start of a sprint race is the most important part. It gives drivers who are willing to risk a penalty a chance to jump the start hoping for a perfect release, and it makes holding pole harder to do.
Ultimately, it becomes a net gain in the following areas; realism, degree of difficulty, increasing passing opportunities, and fun (albeit this is subjective)
It is a negative in the following; increases chances for contact (I think this is subjective because avoiding penalties being served is very easy), and perhaps makes qualifying less meaningful because starts become more difficult and therefore easier to gain and or lose positions at the start.
These are unlike regular penalties in the game because you don’t get to serve them on the racing line sporadically through the race, and there is no grey area. Either you jumped the start, or you didn’t.
Endurance has been using it lately because rolling starts are bugged, and imo it has been a success, and we have damage on strong.
The current start system is a little mindless, you hold the throttle at whatever you’ve pretedermined is the best rev amount, and you go through your starting routine. The only risk is perhaps pushing the car a little too far, and possibly creating wheel spin.
False start check maintains the starting routine, but adds an element of difficulty and realism. It forces you to manage the break release while you’re holding an optimal rev. It’s easy to accidentally move your throttle foot when releasing the brake, thus adding even more difficulty in maintaining the optimal revs. The false start penalties are simple to avoid, as cars who release early roll forward slowly, have a huge penalty sign over there head, and are forced to go straight. They are essentially on auto drive, so drivers behind them can easily avoid them.
Avoiding a driver serving a false start penalty is easier than avoiding a driver who has wheel spin and is maybe tail whipping.
I would like to add the false start check because these are sprint races, and the start of a sprint race is the most important part. It gives drivers who are willing to risk a penalty a chance to jump the start hoping for a perfect release, and it makes holding pole harder to do.
Ultimately, it becomes a net gain in the following areas; realism, degree of difficulty, increasing passing opportunities, and fun (albeit this is subjective)
It is a negative in the following; increases chances for contact (I think this is subjective because avoiding penalties being served is very easy), and perhaps makes qualifying less meaningful because starts become more difficult and therefore easier to gain and or lose positions at the start.
These are unlike regular penalties in the game because you don’t get to serve them on the racing line sporadically through the race, and there is no grey area. Either you jumped the start, or you didn’t.
Endurance has been using it lately because rolling starts are bugged, and imo it has been a success, and we have damage on strong.
- 3,271
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- TEX-36
In the last Endurance Race (remember we run with Heavy Damage) - the car directly ahead of me missed a shift and slowed significantly.
That caused me to bump the back of his car (damage caused to front of my car).
When I hit the car in front of me, the car behind me ran into the back of my car (damage to the rear of my car).
Had to run the first stint with damage, though slight it still reduced my Pace.
I would be of the opinion that the False Start is not a good idea.
That caused me to bump the back of his car (damage caused to front of my car).
When I hit the car in front of me, the car behind me ran into the back of my car (damage to the rear of my car).
Had to run the first stint with damage, though slight it still reduced my Pace.
I would be of the opinion that the False Start is not a good idea.
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I think this is where my opinion differs. I used to race competitively and we had 2 types of starts. Mass starts with either predetermined positions on a starting grid based on points, or individual starts where it becomes a timed race.
The shorter the race, sprints being the worst, the more chaotic the mass start becomes. Isn’t it a little counterintuitive to have sprint races, but then in the same sentence say that we should use a simpler starting technique to make the starts less chaotic? Sprint races are chaotic, they should be dangerous. I think it’s worth testing because it really is easy to avoid a driver who’s false started, there is lots of room in front of you, and around them.
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- Big Stone Gap
- Raw10_2u
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- THRASH_46
Not incredibly "old" but I did this for an endurance night (that I didn't get to race).
I loved that Oval race. Wish you could have been there that night to rep the throwback schemes even more. I made a old mello yellow scheme for herimopp and I rep’d the rainbow warrior. I will definitely do a throwback scheme for that car.
I love making liveries and it’s awesome to make the banner, badass car right next to me too. Also that replica is awesome I gotta find a throwback to rock that night as well.
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